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| The STATE of the album chart~, what should be done? |
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 31st March 2021, 05:55 AM
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#21
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 BuzzJack Idol
Joined: 8 December 2010
Posts: 50,975 User: 12,472 
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QUOTE(Dircadirca @ Mar 31 2021, 06:22 AM)  Truly they are ridin' solo on that one 
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31st March 2021, 06:37 AM
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#22
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,453 User: 3,217
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QUOTE(Rush @ Mar 31 2021, 05:51 AM) ^ Nice to see those figures! Out of curiosity, are there any albums in the top 100 (or top 200) with literally 0 pure sales? Not this week - the lowest is 2 sales! Jason Derulo, as well as: #142 Pitbull - Global Warming (1,027 sales / 1,025 streaming, 2 downloads) #176 Sigala - Brightest Days (896 sales / 894 streaming, 2 CDs) QUOTE(Dircadirca @ Mar 31 2021, 06:22 AM) Truly they are ridin' solo on that one  |
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31st March 2021, 06:57 AM
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#23
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 Gareth T H
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 2,501 User: 10,597
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QUOTE(vibe @ Mar 30 2021, 09:07 AM) What a mess !! Especially for us chart addicts. That’s part of the problem sadly, it is just us chart enthusiasts that care. These GH albums sticking around forever isn’t ideal, but the top 5 of the album chart has much more movement than the singles chart when you look week to week. Low sales mean more high peaks for new entires, so the OCC get the chart stories from that and artists get a short term ‘win’ for a good peak. If we had Queen/Elton/Fleetwood Mac etc at #1 for weeks on end, they would change rules like they did for soundtracks. They aren’t (yet) so why rock the boat. |
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31st March 2021, 07:00 AM
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#24
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 November 2015
Posts: 33,255 User: 22,665
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wow thats crazy, and looking at the Apple Album chart proper without playlist counts
neither Sigala nor Pitbull are in the top 1500 so they can chart with 2 sales and no one even streaming the album 
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31st March 2021, 07:01 AM
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#25
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 22 December 2009
Posts: 30,356 User: 10,275
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I can totally see Queen's GH sneaking a week at #1 soon, however, it's not probably gonna last several weeks there.
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31st March 2021, 07:23 AM
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#26
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,453 User: 3,217
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QUOTE(Jay❄ @ Mar 31 2021, 07:37 AM) #142 Pitbull - Global Warming (1,027 sales / 1,025 streaming, 2 downloads) Going a bit off topic, but regarding this album - there's been a recent chart resurgence for it, which seems a bit random. It's currently in its 25th week in the chart and has racked up 177,405 total sales, despite only peaking at #111! [09/12/2012] 111-out (1w) [Not sure if its first week sale is known... a week earlier the #121 album sold 1,787, so maybe Global Warming's first week sale would have been about 2,000?] [13/01/2013] 192-out (1w) [31/03/2013] 125-132-133-143-168-181-out (6w) [12/01/2014] 122-out (1w) [Total sales at this point - 25,455; it sold 1,127 in this week] [02/02/2014] 169-out (1w) [Total sales - 26,647; it sold 676 in this week] [27/03/2020] 197-out (1w) [Total sales - 136,776; it sold 722 in this week] [10/04/2020] 195-out (1w) [05/06/2020] 192-out (1w) [26/06/2020] 189-out (1w) [17/07/2020] 190-out (1w) [07/08/2020] 192-191-out (2w) [05/02/2021] 177-174-160-148-144-147-139-142... (8w+) It went Silver (60k+) on 10th March 2017 and Gold (100k+) on 15th February 2019. Pitbull's Greatest Hits album is always lurking in the Top 200 too, now in its 79th week in the chart. It finally cracked the Top 100 five weeks ago and is at a new peak of #87 this week. 135,472 sales to date! 1,340 this week, 1,328 of it being streaming, 10 CDs (  ) and 2 downloads.
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31st March 2021, 07:36 AM
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#27
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,832 User: 17,376
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singles are singles and albums are albums, they are not both.
Single plays should not count towards album sales. Historically the chart has always been they were 2 completely different things, a single was a physical product and an album was another completely different physical product. You could buy a single and buy the album the single came from. That's fair, cos you are paying twice. Artificially turning a massive single into album "sales" due to playlists should not boost what might be otherwise a piece of crap. The US went this route in the 90's when they deliberately didn't release singles in order to force people to buy what were often crappy albums to get one single track, so the album chart became inflated with pap while the singles charts omitted massively good and popular tracks. Music industry chart manipulation has been and always will be a thing, and it's sad that album sales are so low, but if people don;t play or buy entire albums the album charts should reflect reality and give a break to those acts who ARE popular as entire album acts, and ignore those that are just basically selling singles. That's how the charts always used to work, and it was fine to be either an albums act or a singles act, or both where an act crossed-over. |
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31st March 2021, 07:44 AM
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#28
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🔥🚀🔥
Joined: 30 August 2010
Posts: 74,572 User: 11,746
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that Pitbull situation is ridiculous especially as Global Warming is acting as a pseudo greatest hits album here containing 4 hits including Timber being tacked in its deluxe edition. surely barely anyone is actually listening to that album in its (near-)entirety?
I suppose there’s a bit of Pit nostalgia going around at the moment boosting the streaming of his hits but that should be reflected in an artist chart not an albums chart where most of the sales aren’t from people actually putting on his studio or greatest hits albums |
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31st March 2021, 08:31 AM
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#29
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,152 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Mar 31 2021, 08:36 AM) singles are singles and albums are albums, they are not both. Single plays should not count towards album sales. Historically the chart has always been they were 2 completely different things, a single was a physical product and an album was another completely different physical product. You could buy a single and buy the album the single came from. That's fair, cos you are paying twice. Artificially turning a massive single into album "sales" due to playlists should not boost what might be otherwise a piece of crap. The US went this route in the 90's when they deliberately didn't release singles in order to force people to buy what were often crappy albums to get one single track, so the album chart became inflated with pap while the singles charts omitted massively good and popular tracks. Music industry chart manipulation has been and always will be a thing, and it's sad that album sales are so low, but if people don;t play or buy entire albums the album charts should reflect reality and give a break to those acts who ARE popular as entire album acts, and ignore those that are just basically selling singles. That's how the charts always used to work, and it was fine to be either an albums act or a singles act, or both where an act crossed-over. THIS |
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31st March 2021, 08:38 AM
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#30
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 November 2015
Posts: 33,255 User: 22,665
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I was talking yesterday with a friend of mine that works on a record store
and said that one thing I was wrong was about Queen-Greatest Hits and said they sell lots physically it's actually out on vinyl (I didn't know that) and they sell lots every week on vinyl alone what I always found bizarre is how you go to Spotify, search for Elton John-Sleeping with the Past album, you stream the album, and just cos Sacrifice is on his greatest hits Diamonds, you also give Diamonds a streaming point but why? makes no sense to me at all, like zero, why if I'm streaming a random album I also have to give streaming points to a greatest hits, I really fail to see the logic of it... |
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31st March 2021, 05:23 PM
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#31
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Pronouns: He/Him
Joined: 28 July 2013 Posts: 5,076 User: 19,614
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Applying streaming points for full album listens (and only attributed to that particular album) seems solid in theory but I think there are far too many realistic examples of normal listener behaviour that make it fall apart with excessive false negatives.
-Say a person is listening to Justin Bieber's new album, they skip the MLK Interlude because 'lol Justin who are you trying to impress' but also a lot of people just generally skip interludes/skits etc (in fact about half of people who listened to this album already have), should that not count in any capacity? Or if they stop listening on track 15 because they already decided last year that "lonely" is dire and don't need to hear it again, should the entire 40/45 minute Justin experience be scrapped because they didn't adhere to Justin's full creative vision for the album experience? -Drake puts out "Scorpion" and it's way too long for anyone's good, but it's got the hits buried in it. So I listen to it once and cherry pick to find the "Mob Ties" & "Summer Games" wheat from the "Ratchet Happy Birthday" and "I'm Upset" chaff. I put my new condensed 13 track version onto a new playlist where I put saved albums/tracks because it's much easier than saving them all individually (A lot of people I know do this). If I listen to this abridged version from start to finish should that count for nothing? Or if I should put it on shuffle, should it only count in the miracle dice roll that every track pops up in the same 1 day session? -Say I'm listening to Lil Uzi Vert's "Eternal Atake" late one night as I'm doomscrolling twitter. It just so happens that this 1 hour listen ticks over the day cut off that Spotify uses when they compartmentalise their data into day by day playcounts and send it to the OCC, should my listen not count because the whole thing never turned up together on a single day? Should it instead just count in full on the 2nd day when the listen is finished? What if that 2nd day is Thursday and so an album that was primarily listened to on a Wednesday doesn't even count because of the OCC's big brain Fallout 76 energy that prioritises publishing a chart ASAP rather than accurately? What if upon reaching track 16 (of 18) I get this unexplainable urge to listen to "XO TOUR Llif3" which has just for some reason entered my mind, I do that and then finish listening to the album. Does it not count as an album stream in any capacity because it was interrupted? Or is this particular instance okay because it's still the same artist? -When My Bloody Valentine's artist page top 10 inevitably gets inundated mostly with "Loveless" tracks in the coming days, would listening through that track list not count because I didn't actually queue up an album, even if it's effectively just a different idealised version of a similar experience of listening to "Loveless" in full? I will say with all this in mind that the situation with Greatest Hits albums is...not particularly great and maybe they should be sequestered to their own chart or something, but even ignoring them, the glorified idea of people listening to entire studio albums from front to back certainly doesn't make up the lion's share of streaming activity and even a lot of well-intentioned 'I enjoy the idea of this album and want to experience it in this moment' streaming sessions will not go 100% through the whole thing. I can't assume good faith if requiring full, pure listens is the take, because it just seems like an ulterior motive to reduce the impact of evil streams, which itself is an ulterior motive of 'the chart doesn't represent my demographic as much as I think it should'. |
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31st March 2021, 09:53 PM
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#32
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 22 August 2020
Posts: 365 User: 111,940
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'Stranger' - a song from Becky Hill album (which was number 22 on album streaming chart last week) received 746 streams on Spotify yesterday. Worldwide.
'High Expectations - Outro' from Mabel album was streamed 320 times. |
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1st April 2021, 05:58 AM
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#33
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wayback machine gif rescuer
Joined: 3 April 2013
Posts: 3,771 User: 18,564
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QUOTE(Jay❄ @ Mar 31 2021, 05:37 PM) Not this week - the lowest is 2 sales! Jason Derulo, as well as: Thanks! I was quite surprised at that Pitbull album because even if it has 4-5 hits (does 'Get It Started' count as a hit?), they're not exactly huge classics. However, I noticed this on Wikipedia:#142 Pitbull - Global Warming (1,027 sales / 1,025 streaming, 2 downloads) #176 Sigala - Brightest Days (896 sales / 894 streaming, 2 CDs) Global Warming – International deluxe edition (bonus disc) 1. "Rain Over Me" (featuring Marc Anthony) 2. "International Love" (featuring Chris Brown) 3. "Hotel Room Service" 4. "Give Me Everything" (featuring Ne-Yo, Afrojack and Nayer) 5. "Hey Baby (Drop It to the Floor)" (featuring T-Pain) 6. "DJ Got Us Fallin' in Love" (Usher featuring Pitbull) 7. "Dance Again" (Jennifer Lopez featuring Pitbull) That deluxe version exists in the Spotify catalogue and has a European 2CD release on Discogs (don't know whether 'Europe' includes the UK there) so I'm guessing those tracks are counting, which makes a lot more sense as it becomes basically a 2009-2013 Pitbull greatest hits (except for the noticeably absent 'I Know You Want Me (Calle Ocho)'). To try and back that up with numbers from data I have, these are the worldwide Spotify plays in the past month for the songs on his actual Greatest Hits: 14,761,555 - Give Me Everything 14,643,548 - Timber 13,238,559 - Time of Our Lives 7,168,969 - Feel This Moment 7,158,560 - Hotel Room Service 6,805,382 - International Love 4,815,276 - I Know You Want Me (Calle Ocho) 4,308,562 - Fireball 3,978,057 - Hey Baby (Drop It to the Floor) 2,427,958 - Rain Over Me 1,754,702 - Don't Stop the Party (I don't know about the last 2 songs on the GH but it would be next to nothing) That adds up to 51,656,025 with the top 2 excluded. The songs from the various editions of 'Global Warming', bonus disc included (those tracks in blue): 14,761,555 - Give Me Everything 14,643,548 - Timber 10,599,471 - DJ Got Us Fallin' In Love 7,168,969 - Feel This Moment (feat. Christina Aguilera) 7,158,560 - Hotel Room Service 6,805,382 - International Love 3,978,057 - Hey Baby (Drop It to the Floor) 2,427,958 - Rain Over Me 1,981,262 - Dance Again 1,754,702 - Don't Stop the Party (feat. TJR) 888,415 - Echa Pa'lla (Manos Pa'rriba) (feat. Papayo) 646,985 - Back in Time - featured in "Men In Black 3" 165,195 - Get It Started (feat. Shakira) 74,894 - Everybody F**ks (feat. Akon & David Rush) 45,878 - Tchu Tchu Tcha (feat. Enrique Iglesias) 42,235 - Have Some Fun (feat. The Wanted & Afrojack) 40,309 - Party Ain't Over (feat. Usher & Afrojack) 36,260 - Outta Nowhere (feat. Danny Mercer) 33,105 - Global Warming (feat. Sensato) 30,333 - Hope We Meet Again (feat. Chris Brown) 23,028 - Last Night (feat. Afrojack & Havana Brown) 19,096 - I'm Off That 18,864 - Drinks for You (Ladies Anthem) (feat. J. Lo) 5,432 - 11:59 (feat. Vein) (that's missing a few bonus tracks I don't have info for, but they're no more relevant than the album tracks there, so they wouldn't be in the top 12 either) For the #3-#12 tracks, that adds up to 43,409,761 - 84% as much as 'Greatest Hits', which is a fairly close ratio to their streaming sales (1,328 for 'Greatest Hits' and 1,025 for 'Global Warming' = the latter having 77% as much). Whereas, if I exclude the bonus disc and take the #3-#12 tracks from the remainder, I get... 3,727,978 (7% as much as 'Greatest Hits'). They missed a trick by not including 'On The Floor' on that bonus disc - it has 12,701,461 plays in the past month (combining single & album versions) which could easily push 'Global Warming' ahead of 'Greatest Hits'  As for the album's resurgence, it seems all the big hits on it have been growing lately - no idea why though:  (Side note: I always thought it was weird that they relegated 'Timber', one of his biggest hits and one that came many months after the last hit from the original album, to a re-release rather than making it a new lead single, but clearly they were just playing the long game )
This post has been edited by Rush: 1st April 2021, 06:03 AM |
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1st April 2021, 06:26 AM
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#34
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Pronouns: He/Him
Joined: 28 July 2013 Posts: 5,076 User: 19,614
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QUOTE(Rush @ Apr 1 2021, 01:58 PM) As for the album's resurgence, it seems all the big hits on it have been growing lately - no idea why though: You'd know better than me, but I think pretty much all millennial era (and probably otherwise) hits have been sharply rising in the past year through some manner of global mass nostalgia that we can assumedly attribute to the dreaded pandemic. |
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1st April 2021, 06:28 AM
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#35
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 22 December 2009
Posts: 30,356 User: 10,275
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It's just the general nostalgia towards what happened in music ten years ago. The same reason is causing the resurgence of Teenage Dream on album chart.
Edit: What Dircadirca said
This post has been edited by Sour Candy: 1st April 2021, 06:28 AM |
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1st April 2021, 10:18 AM
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#36
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Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 88,972 User: 51
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I wonder if Pitbull's resurgence means he could be due another hit sometime?
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1st April 2021, 10:56 AM
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#37
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 25 March 2007
Posts: 21,306 User: 3,155
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The album charts are just a total mess and open to manipulation -
1. Albums just have endless songs tacked onto them to generate ‘sales’ (Mable, Becky Hill, Dermott Kennedy etc.,) - it seems normal practice now even for hit albums by Dermott just to add random new singles on to the album to artificially boost performance 2. Physicals - not a week seems to go by without cassette bundles, £4.99 signed CDs etc., - the norm is now 10+ formats for every album which is why we end up with 1-out chart runs for the likes of YOUMEATSIX I’m not sure what the answer is but we are in a position where physical selling artists have a 2-117-out chart run and non album selling artists have a platinum 50+ week chart album based off of hit singles added to every streaming playlist |
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1st April 2021, 11:33 AM
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#38
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 November 2015
Posts: 33,255 User: 22,665
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^it's also funny how different is the $$$ they generate
like Ben Howard might do an 1-OUT but he's generated. lot of money, he had lots of exclusives all super expensive, 20-30 pounds for a vinyl... while Mabel might get all those weekly fake sales from streams, but mostly her label has to pay $$ for her songs to be added to playlists, so not sure even if her label see any $$$ from her alleged album sales
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1st April 2021, 11:52 AM
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#39
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Pronouns: He/Him
Joined: 28 July 2013 Posts: 5,076 User: 19,614
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QUOTE(Bjork @ Apr 1 2021, 07:33 PM) ^it's also funny how different is the $$$ they generate like Ben Howard might do an 1-OUT but he's generated. lot of money, he had lots of exclusives all super expensive, 20-30 pounds for a vinyl... while Mabel might get all those weekly fake sales from streams, but mostly her label has to pay $$ for her songs to be added to playlists, so not sure even if her label see any $$$ from her alleged album sales I've no way to prove this since we can't see the alternate timeline, but I feel like playlist space is a long term pay off because the longer/higher a song is on a playlist in its tenure, the more time it has for people to add it to their own playlists. For instance Lauv's song "I Like Me Better" was a super forced playlist hit in its time and spent an egregious amount of time on Hot Hits Australia. It collapsed after that run was done, but it's still hanging around the top 200 years later as a staple. And similarly, "Someone You Loved" was put on Today's Top Hits in 2018 and was still on there in 2020, surprise, surprise, the world refuses to move on from it. I'm inclined to feel the two facts are linked. |
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1st April 2021, 01:58 PM
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#40
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 25 March 2007
Posts: 21,306 User: 3,155
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QUOTE(Bjork @ Apr 1 2021, 12:33 PM) ^it's also funny how different is the $$$ they generate like Ben Howard might do an 1-OUT but he's generated. lot of money, he had lots of exclusives all super expensive, 20-30 pounds for a vinyl... while Mabel might get all those weekly fake sales from streams, but mostly her label has to pay $$ for her songs to be added to playlists, so not sure even if her label see any $$$ from her alleged album sales Which is where the disparity lies - Ben Howard and the likes generate strong value income for the record company and record stores (he has strongly supported indies with this release and one of the few artists not to give Amazon an exclusive) yet he will likely end up with a 40k selling uncertified album, whereas Mable, Becky Hill and the likes have Platinum and Gold albums and extensive chart runs based off of streams. |
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