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 A Three Strikes Law |
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 20th June 2018, 05:51 AM
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#41
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364 
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 19 2018, 08:27 PM)  as opposed to leaping to the conclusion (as you continually do) that all sentences for all people arent harsh enough and we are too wishy washy letting people off who YOU feel are guilty despite having no background knowledge of the specific cases or specific instances. It's funny you should mention 'leaping to conclusions', as that's exactly what you just did about me! Despite your above claim, I do *not* automatically believe that *all* sentences are too light, regardless of circumstances. My position is that : since the sentences that do get handed out are frequently ineffective, we should look at means of punishment that will be most effective at preventing recidivism. QUOTE And all the while hypocritically turning a blind eye to the illegal activities of people like Trump and Farage who personally I believe should be in prison for their crimes but who avoid it thanks to their establishment connections and wealth. You know, REAL actual traitors and Enemies Of The People, colloborating with fascists and Russians as we find more evidence coming out on a weekly basis. I will condemn them if/when they are convicted of actual crimes, rather than trial by media.QUOTE The Referendum was fixed by alliances with Russia and lies. That's not democracy. That's propaganda. Yes, Remainer propaganda - but you have no *proof* that : 1. It actually happened 2. That even if it did, it was enough to change the result. |
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20th June 2018, 02:05 PM
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#42
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 BuzzJack Climber
Joined: 28 September 2007
Posts: 198 User: 4,413
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Sending people to prison does not stop crime. If it did the USA would be a low crime paradise and Scandanavia would be a crime ridden nightmare. However I think we can all agree that is not the case. Crime is caused by a range of factors including poverty, lack of equality of opportunities, and lack of social mobility. These factors are high in the UK, and US. We need to challenge these issues amongst others. Also a lot of crime is economic in nature, why? Lack of equality. Until we make the world fairer this will continue
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20th June 2018, 02:33 PM
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#43
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(kindagood @ Jun 20 2018, 03:05 PM) Sending people to prison does not stop crime. If it did the USA would be a low crime paradise and Scandanavia would be a crime ridden nightmare. However I think we can all agree that is not the case. Crime is caused by a range of factors including poverty, lack of equality of opportunities, and lack of social mobility. These factors are high in the UK, and US. We need to challenge these issues amongst others. Also a lot of crime is economic in nature, why? Lack of equality. Until we make the world fairer this will continue 1. It doesn't stop crime, but it does protect the public from it for the duration of their incarceration. 2. Unfortunately the fly in the above ointment is that the enforced equality of communist countries does not stop crime either. Also, not everyone in reduced circumstances turns to crime, so 'poverty, lack of equality of opportunities, and lack of social mobility' cannot offer a full explanation for crime either. |
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21st June 2018, 08:25 PM
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#44
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 20 2018, 06:51 AM) It's funny you should mention 'leaping to conclusions', as that's exactly what you just did about me! Despite your above claim, I do *not* automatically believe that *all* sentences are too light, regardless of circumstances. My position is that : since the sentences that do get handed out are frequently ineffective, we should look at means of punishment that will be most effective at preventing recidivism. I will condemn them if/when they are convicted of actual crimes, rather than trial by media. Yes, Remainer propaganda - but you have no *proof* that : 1. It actually happened 2. That even if it did, it was enough to change the result. 1. Your posts belie your claims about light sentences 2. Harsh jail sentences make no difference to crime levels. This is a fact. Rehabilitiation does. This is a fact. 3. The current guilty pleas of most of the people accused in Trump's government should be a clue that they are guilty. But feel free to deny facts as usual. 4. How hypocritical are you condemning trial my media (based on actual facts as reported and not lies) but wholeheartedly embrace total lies and propaganda when Daily Mail performs Trial By Media. Such a hypocrite. You NEVER EVER condemn any Daily Mail headlines yet here you are making feeble excuses for people are and have admitted they are guilty of offences (they just havent got the court cases sorted yet). Not being in prison does not mean they arent guilty when they have admitted they are guilty. Such as the man who just tried to claim credit for ending (he hasn't though) child imprisonment in inhumane conditions, a policy he created. Feel free to try and support that evil nasty and utterly unnecessary policy devised to try and blackmail Democrats into voting to pay for a wall that he could have paid for instead of giving the tax breaks to the richest 1% of Americans. 5. And you have no proof it didn't affect the result. I do however have proof it took place, Aaron Banks admitted meeting Russians, Cambridge Anal Lickita met Russians, the FBI are investigating links to brexit as a trial run by the above for the American election. But all means keep calling it fake news, as all right-wingers do when trying to discredit facts. Liars favourite phrase is "fake news" when faced with facts. That's a fact. |
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21st June 2018, 08:30 PM
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#45
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 20 2018, 03:33 PM) 1. It doesn't stop crime, but it does protect the public from it for the duration of their incarceration. 2. Unfortunately the fly in the above ointment is that the enforced equality of communist countries does not stop crime either. Also, not everyone in reduced circumstances turns to crime, so 'poverty, lack of equality of opportunities, and lack of social mobility' cannot offer a full explanation for crime either. 1. Well duuuuuuuhhhhhhh! What's your point? Nobody is arguing against criminals going to prison where the crime justifies a sentence. You just claimed you didn't have a problem with sentencing, necessarily. Contradicting yourself again. 2. Some people like crime as a means to get rich. Some people are forced into crime to survive. Some fall into it by stupidity. Some by accident. What's your point if you don't have a problem with British sentencing? |
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22nd June 2018, 05:56 AM
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#46
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 21 2018, 09:25 PM) 1. Your posts belie your claims about light sentences 2. Harsh jail sentences make no difference to crime levels. This is a fact. Rehabilitiation does. This is a fact. 3. The current guilty pleas of most of the people accused in Trump's government should be a clue that they are guilty. But feel free to deny facts as usual. 4. How hypocritical are you condemning trial my media (based on actual facts as reported and not lies) but wholeheartedly embrace total lies and propaganda when Daily Mail performs Trial By Media. Such a hypocrite. You NEVER EVER condemn any Daily Mail headlines yet here you are making feeble excuses for people are and have admitted they are guilty of offences (they just havent got the court cases sorted yet). Not being in prison does not mean they arent guilty when they have admitted they are guilty. Such as the man who just tried to claim credit for ending (he hasn't though) child imprisonment in inhumane conditions, a policy he created. Feel free to try and support that evil nasty and utterly unnecessary policy devised to try and blackmail Democrats into voting to pay for a wall that he could have paid for instead of giving the tax breaks to the richest 1% of Americans. 5. And you have no proof it didn't affect the result. I do however have proof it took place, Aaron Banks admitted meeting Russians, Cambridge Anal Lickita met Russians, the FBI are investigating links to brexit as a trial run by the above for the American election. But all means keep calling it fake news, as all right-wingers do when trying to discredit facts. Liars favourite phrase is "fake news" when faced with facts. That's a fact. 1. Not at all, since my idea of 'more effective means of preventing recidivism' is the polar opposite of yours. 2. I regard this as nonsense - it is common sense that the harsher the punishment, the more the deterrent. 4. I don't condemn the Mail's headlines because I tend to agree with them - is that such a difficult concept to grasp? 5. The result is all that matters - as long as it was not obtained by actual vote fraud (i.e. ballot box stuffing, etc), rather than just iffy campaigning, that's good enough for me. QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 21 2018, 09:30 PM) 1. Well duuuuuuuhhhhhhh! What's your point? Nobody is arguing against criminals going to prison where the crime justifies a sentence. You just claimed you didn't have a problem with sentencing, necessarily. Contradicting yourself again. 2. Some people like crime as a means to get rich. Some people are forced into crime to survive. Some fall into it by stupidity. Some by accident. What's your point if you don't have a problem with British sentencing? Clearly you've forgotten what I've told you many times before - any apparent contradictions are due to you not understanding my position. |
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22nd June 2018, 07:48 AM
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#47
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 22 2018, 06:56 AM) 1. Not at all, since my idea of 'more effective means of preventing recidivism' is the polar opposite of yours. 2. I regard this as nonsense - it is common sense that the harsher the punishment, the more the deterrent. 4. I don't condemn the Mail's headlines because I tend to agree with them - is that such a difficult concept to grasp? 5. The result is all that matters - as long as it was not obtained by actual vote fraud (i.e. ballot box stuffing, etc), rather than just iffy campaigning, that's good enough for me. Clearly you've forgotten what I've told you many times before - any apparent contradictions are due to you not understanding my position. 1. Facts. Deluded. Just your opinion. Unsubstantiated by facts you can refer to. 2. No it isn't. Facts. Prove otherwise. I have offered you evidence. You haven't. 3. As I say, hypocrite and propaganda. 3.8 million EU citizens allowed to stay todays headline. The government has agreed to it, and is swishing together hundreds of millions in charges from them to register in order to catch criminals - and yet the Daily Liar has a headline that hardened criminals will not be caught by the very act designed to catch them. I despair at your defense of pure propaganda, and the fact that you continue to defend them shows beyond doubt that you don't believe in truth and democracy, you just use it as lip service to achieve things you do actually believe in. 4. Yes, re referendum result. I repeat above. 2 years you've been trying to claim democracy matters when you have proven beyond doubt that it doesn't matter at all to you, as long as you get what you want at any cost to freedom and what is right and just. 5. No, I understand your contradictions perfectly. You repeat them so often they are ingrained into my mind, sadly. YOU just choose to ignore them because you can't justify your views with facts, logic or any other means so you choose to blame me instead of your own self-contradictory views and claims. My views on all topics are very very clear and I don't contradict myself. If I am misunderstanding (which is highly unlikely as I've never come across anything that I dont understand except human nature) then you are just rubbish at expressing what are your real thoughts, so don't try and put the blame on me. |
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22nd June 2018, 09:11 AM
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#48
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 22 2018, 08:48 AM) 1. Facts. Deluded. Just your opinion. Unsubstantiated by facts you can refer to. 2. No it isn't. Facts. Prove otherwise. I have offered you evidence. You haven't. I don't recall seeing any such evidence from you.  QUOTE 3. As I say, hypocrite and propaganda. 3.8 million EU citizens allowed to stay todays headline. The government has agreed to it, and is swishing together hundreds of millions in charges from them to register in order to catch criminals - and yet the Daily Liar has a headline that hardened criminals will not be caught by the very act designed to catch them. I despair at your defense of pure propaganda, and the fact that you continue to defend them shows beyond doubt that you don't believe in truth and democracy, you just use it as lip service to achieve things you do actually believe in. 4. Yes, re referendum result. I repeat above. 2 years you've been trying to claim democracy matters when you have proven beyond doubt that it doesn't matter at all to you, as long as you get what you want at any cost to freedom and what is right and just. 5. No, I understand your contradictions perfectly. You repeat them so often they are ingrained into my mind, sadly. YOU just choose to ignore them because you can't justify your views with facts, logic or any other means so you choose to blame me instead of your own self-contradictory views and claims. My views on all topics are very very clear and I don't contradict myself. If I am misunderstanding (which is highly unlikely as I've never come across anything that I dont understand except human nature) then you are just rubbish at expressing what are your real thoughts, so don't try and put the blame on me. So, if I were to say something like 'I don't give a crap about the facts, my opinions are all the matter to me' how would you react to that? |
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22nd June 2018, 12:44 PM
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#49
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 22 2018, 10:11 AM) I don't recall seeing any such evidence from you. So, if I were to say something like 'I don't give a crap about the facts, my opinions are all the matter to me' how would you react to that? Then you sound like the Catholic church sentencing Galileo to house arrest for the rest of his life on this day in 1633. |
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22nd June 2018, 01:48 PM
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#50
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 22 2018, 01:44 PM) Then you sound like the Catholic church sentencing Galileo to house arrest for the rest of his life on this day in 1633. But Galileo was proven right in the end, so how can you be so confident we Leavers are wrong? |
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22nd June 2018, 01:55 PM
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#51
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 22 2018, 02:48 PM) But Galileo was proven right in the end, so how can you be so confident we Leavers are wrong? I was referring to the facts that show that non-custodial sentences have a better record at preventing reoffending and that longer sentences make no difference to the reoffending rate. |
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22nd June 2018, 02:35 PM
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#52
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 22 2018, 02:55 PM) I was referring to the facts that show that non-custodial sentences have a better record at preventing reoffending and that longer sentences make no difference to the reoffending rate. Not a very good example, as Galileo had not done anything that would be considered a crime nowadays (i.e. heresy). If anything, the boot is on the other foot, as in the UK today PC tends to overrule Christian belief... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oc...in-gay-cake-row Incidentally, this is a counter-example to the claim made on this forum that the hard-right is ruling the roost. The more religious US does things slightly different https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44361162 This post has been edited by vidcapper: 22nd June 2018, 02:38 PM |
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22nd June 2018, 02:53 PM
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#53
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 22 2018, 03:35 PM) Not a very good example, as Galileo had not done anything that would be considered a crime nowadays (i.e. heresy). If anything, the boot is on the other foot, as in the UK today PC tends to overrule Christian belief... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oc...in-gay-cake-row Incidentally, this is a counter-example to the claim made on this forum that the hard-right is ruling the roost. The more religious US does things slightly different https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44361162 What are you babbling on about? The Catholic church took the attitude that their opinion was more important than Galileo's facts. You really must not allow your Daily Mail-inspired paranoia to cloud your view of the world so much. It can't be good for your blood pressure. |
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22nd June 2018, 03:00 PM
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#54
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 22 2018, 03:53 PM) What are you babbling on about? The Catholic church took the attitude that their opinion was more important than Galileo's facts. You really must not allow your Daily Mail-inspired paranoia to cloud your view of the world so much. It can't be good for your blood pressure. Examples of what I consider intrusive political correctness are what raise my blood pressure. |
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22nd June 2018, 04:58 PM
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#55
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 22 2018, 04:00 PM) Examples of what I consider intrusive political correctness are what raise my blood pressure. Then don't read the Daily Mail. Most of their stories on that subject are either outright lies or grossly exaggerated, so why bother rating them? |
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22nd June 2018, 09:45 PM
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#56
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 22 2018, 10:11 AM) I don't recall seeing any such evidence from you. So, if I were to say something like 'I don't give a crap about the facts, my opinions are all the matter to me' how would you react to that? 1.Then your memory is really crap. If you want to flick back a few pages you will find links to evidence, and previous comments from me have illustrated many examples many times. No wonder trying to discuss issues with you is so frustrating - you have the memory of a goldfish. Everything must be such a constantly new pleasant/unpleasant surprise to you as you swim round your bowl.... 2. I would say that's one of the first honest quotes from you and if you'd only said that 2 years ago we could have all gone and done something more useful and enjoyable - in my case finishing off all those charts I started rather than getting diverted into pointing out annoying facts and logic. |
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23rd June 2018, 05:54 AM
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#57
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 22 2018, 10:45 PM) 1.Then your memory is really crap. If you want to flick back a few pages you will find links to evidence, and previous comments from me have illustrated many examples many times. No wonder trying to discuss issues with you is so frustrating - you have the memory of a goldfish. Everything must be such a constantly new pleasant/unpleasant surprise to you as you swim round your bowl.... You think discussing issues with *me* is frustrating? It's no picnic for me, having my opinions constantly dismissed as contradictory/propaganda. I'm constantly facing the challenge of having my ideas dismissed as worthless, simply because I am not the most eloquent at expressing them. QUOTE 2. I would say that's one of the first honest quotes from you and if you'd only said that 2 years ago we could have all gone and done something more useful and enjoyable - in my case finishing off all those charts I started rather than getting diverted into pointing out annoying facts and logic. In which case it is just as well I merely asked the question, rather than expressed it as a statement.  As for 'finding something more useful & enjoyable' - that's why I estimate YTD sales figures.  However, I feel compelled to reiterate my political opinions here, in order to remind people that not everyone is of the same mind on the dominant issues here. This post has been edited by vidcapper: 23rd June 2018, 07:03 AM |
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23rd June 2018, 09:31 AM
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#58
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 23 2018, 06:54 AM) You think discussing issues with *me* is frustrating? It's no picnic for me, having my opinions constantly dismissed as contradictory/propaganda. I'm constantly facing the challenge of having my ideas dismissed as worthless, simply because I am not the most eloquent at expressing them. In which case it is just as well I merely asked the question, rather than expressed it as a statement. As for 'finding something more useful & enjoyable' - that's why I estimate YTD sales figures. However, I feel compelled to reiterate my political opinions here, in order to remind people that not everyone is of the same mind on the dominant issues here. Try re-reading old posts from yourself then, and having expressed an opinion put a full stop under it. This is not people ganging up on you because you have opinions we don't agree with, it's because you refuse to accept reality and keep trying to justify things that can't be justified with facts. Everything in the world is on google a few minutes away and it's not hard to do searches. If you can't find anything to back up your views then the logical response is that your views are merely that - views. And why should the rest of us change our minds based on nothing but your sayso? Then post some music stuff and I guarantee I will never say you are wrong, because there are no wrongs and rights in music, there is only viewpoints, it's not an absolute thing. I think we long ago got the message what your viewpoints on any given issue and could probably write a post from you as if we were you. Eloquence has nothing to do with it, it's to do with being observant and remembering stuff. I never go back and check your old posts, or my old posts, or anyone else's old posts. I just remember stuff and fortunately for me I'm pretty good at short-term memory and long-term memory - it's the middle-term memory in between that fizzles out.... 
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23rd June 2018, 10:02 AM
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#59
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 23 2018, 10:31 AM) Try re-reading old posts from yourself then, and having expressed an opinion put a full stop under it. This is not people ganging up on you because you have opinions we don't agree with, it's because you refuse to accept reality and keep trying to justify things that can't be justified with facts. Everything in the world is on google a few minutes away and it's not hard to do searches. If you can't find anything to back up your views then the logical response is that your views are merely that - views. And why should the rest of us change our minds based on nothing but your sayso? Are you suggesting that I've tried to persuade you do so? If so, is that any different from you trying to persuade me that Brexit is a mistake? |
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23rd June 2018, 12:56 PM
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#60
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 23 2018, 11:02 AM) Are you suggesting that I've tried to persuade you do so? If so, is that any different from you trying to persuade me that Brexit is a mistake? So stop posting. I'm not trying to persuade you that Brexit is a mistake. That's futile. I'm trying to stop you posting lies about Brexit to stop other people being taken in by fatuous unsupported statements. There's a big difference and the reason we are in the sorry state we are in are because powerful liars have been doing exactly that. They havent got the result by telling the truth in the slightest. So the rest of us will spend the rest of our lives pointing out how the liars made a mess of our country lying to gullible fools. Get used to it, I would suggest because the "I Told You So"s is going to go on until the Uk is back in the EU down the line, assuming it still exists and Europe hasnt been taken over by far-right fascists in uniforms doing away with democracy. If you don't like democratic arguments with reason and evidence, there are plenty of websites catering for that viewpoint, though intolerant racist homophobic misogynistic bullying is a bit of an unfortunate side-effect of those sorts of places, rather than caring, decent human beings that force their appalling liberal views onto others by not accepting other people having a right to take away their rights. |
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