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Posted by: jay727 19th February 2014, 10:35 PM

Looks like this album will be TT as a 4 judging by Rob's comments today:

Robbie Williams: "I would love to do something with Take That again but now i'm having a blast being me and I'm going to be me for a while"

Posted by: pippa 20th February 2014, 12:46 PM

That does not disappoint nor surprise me. Take That are fine as 4, the albums from them as 4 were stronger than Progress/Progressed. I also believe Robbie in or out wont impact the success of the album as Beautiful World and the Circus were just as successful as Progress/Progressed.

Posted by: jay727 20th February 2014, 01:26 PM

Europe wise it could effect them, but I agree, I prefer them as a 4

Posted by: pippa 20th February 2014, 01:54 PM

Europe they havnt really aimed for since their return, they have really focused on the UK and it has paid off. They will still manage minor success in Europe, with or without Robbie. Robbie been involved or not will not hinder their success in the UK and Ireland.

Posted by: jay727 20th February 2014, 03:08 PM

Germany is the main territory for them after uk and Ireland and rightly so. They sold half a million copies of progress in Germany and about the same for BW. Circus didn't do so well out there.

Posted by: pippa 21st February 2014, 09:10 AM

With good promotion an album with or without Robbie could still do well in Germany.

Posted by: stevyy 12th May 2014, 11:35 AM

i think platinum = 200,000 is always in reach for Take That in Germany. <3

Posted by: acidburn 26th May 2014, 08:12 PM

Can't wait they have been constantly fantastic since they're massive comeback and hopefully keep it up with new and hopefully fantastic material

http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=166228

Posted by: jay727 1st July 2014, 07:04 AM

I wonder what will challenge TT when they release in November?
I can't see 1D outselling them at all...Is Adele releasing this year? Does she usually wait till Xmas or will she release Autumn or January time...

Posted by: pippa 1st July 2014, 02:25 PM

The battle and competition will only drive sales, i can still see no one beating Take That apart from Adele.

Posted by: jay727 31st July 2014, 01:49 PM

Howard has confirmed the album will be released in November, with the single likely to hit radios in September!

He also left quite a strange tweet:

@HowardDonald: You all need to get up to date and download off iTunes if TT are to stand any chance of charting in November

Wonder what that means? Physicals albums always outsell their digital counterparts for artists like TT

Posted by: pippa 31st July 2014, 02:48 PM

Maybe it is directed towards placings for their singles, when we were young charted poorly and outside The Flood subsequent singles from the progress era charted in lower positions than they have become accustomed too.

Posted by: jay727 31st July 2014, 07:05 PM

Good point Pippa! I was worrying that they might be alienating their whole Xmas audience by not releasing a physical

Posted by: pippa 1st August 2014, 09:27 AM

They would simply be crazy to not release a physical, unless some surprise is headed our way as an extra to the physical album, the download version may have extras to target those who purely do not purchase physicals.

Posted by: jay727 3rd August 2014, 07:07 PM

Good news here, the album is 95% done and only one song is still being worked on at the moment

Says that they are on XF early December, I hope that's not true and that they perform on XF on the week of the single release

http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/03/take-thats-new-album-is-full-steam-ahead-as-band-prepare-to-release-album-in-november-4820035/

Posted by: Aphrodite 4th August 2014, 03:10 AM

Im so looking forward to hearing the new material,i hope the lead single can at least make top 5,the album will be huge,that im certain of,id just like some hit singles too.

Posted by: jay727 5th August 2014, 05:37 AM

Word is the album will be released on 24 November, going head to head with 1D who release the same day

The Sun is reporting that Adele is releasing on the 24th as well

Posted by: pippa 5th August 2014, 08:22 AM

If thats true, all will benefit as fans of each will be certain to purchase, i am not sure if its totally right to release all 3 on the same day and if this happens i would predict the following result,

Number 1 Adele
Number 2 Take That
Number 3 One Direction

Take That always have extra fantastic opening sales but with the colossal success of 21 by Adele i would predict her opening sales in a 4th quarter to be larger than Take That.

Posted by: jay727 5th August 2014, 10:17 AM

I would hope that TT avoid Adele, not worried about 1D as they will easily outsell them.

Here's the link
https://celebritaintv.jux.com/3620605

Posted by: pippa 5th August 2014, 11:54 AM

I too would hope Adele and Take That dont have the same release date, i would include One Direction in that too, while i know Take That would beat One Direction i would be happy for all them to achieve at least 1 week at number 1 with big sales.

Posted by: jay727 7th August 2014, 01:47 PM

Looks like the TT song for the Secret Service film will likely be the 2nd single seeing as the film has been delayed until Feb

http://m.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a572704/kingsman-the-secret-service-release-date-pushed-to-face-50-shades-of-grey.html#~oMgbh1fArW8DEm

Posted by: Aphrodite 8th August 2014, 09:16 AM

That could work out well,it gives them s stronger chance of having 2 bug hits from the era.

Posted by: pippa 11th August 2014, 04:08 PM

2 smash hits would be just wonderful, the album successes have come with ease, single success for then outside the lead single has become a struggle.

Posted by: jay727 19th August 2014, 07:10 AM

I wonder when we will start to hear news on this...single should be it's first spin next month or early October I would imagine...when were details of circus, progress etc announced?

Posted by: Better Man 19th August 2014, 05:21 PM

Jul-16 2010 for Progress

Posted by: Aphrodite 19th August 2014, 10:38 PM

It will be here before we know it,the excitement will start building soon.

Posted by: pippa 25th August 2014, 03:11 PM

I cannot wait to get my hands and ears on the new material. I sense they will return with a very strong lead single that will be a huge anthem.

Posted by: jay727 28th August 2014, 07:01 AM

Same Pippa!

Some guy posted a pic of him and Gary with Ben Winston and then tweeted this:

@TommyGardner: @garybarlow @HowardDonald @OfficialMarkO only heard 4 of the new tracks, sounding great! Only 14 weeks to go!

So 14 weeks would put the album release date as the 24th November, similar to Circus and BW, a week later than Progress

Posted by: pippa 28th August 2014, 01:23 PM

14 weeks does not feel like a long time and that will soon be 13

Posted by: jay727 29th August 2014, 09:32 PM

Some snippets of info from the guy who met Gary earlier this week to whet your apetites!!

@TommyGardner: "@OnTourSince10: @TommyGardner when will we hear the new TT song? Is it good?"

*1st Single end of November with Album soon after! Brill! *

@TommyGardner: "@ALISONGBARMY: @TommyGardner out of the 4 TT songs u hve heard. Do u hve a favorite?"

*yes! I think it's going to be 1st Single! *

@TommyGardner: "@antf_91: @TommyGardner, Hi Tommy, is Gary on lead vocals for the single?"

*if the single stays as it is then, yes*

@TommyGardner: "@OnTourSince10: @TommyGardner Tommy, is that the song that was your favourite?"

*Yes, so far! Great catchy melody!*

Posted by: pippa 5th September 2014, 09:04 AM

Another week nearer to new material.

Posted by: slowdown73 6th September 2014, 09:55 PM

Looking forward to TT's new album. Will be interesting to see how it sells given the big decline in album sales since their last album. I'm sure it will still do well and smash the likes of Poo Direction.

Posted by: pippa 10th September 2014, 03:02 PM

I am starting to believe we should soon get word on what the name of the lead single will be.

Posted by: jay727 10th September 2014, 09:52 PM

Hope so! Have you heard anything yet Pippa?

Posted by: pippa 11th September 2014, 08:35 AM

Nothing at all, i suspect they are keeping it all under lock and key and ready to set the ball rolling soon with announcements.

Posted by: slowdown73 6th October 2014, 10:28 PM

Is the new album still coming out this year? I suspect it may be delayed now.

Posted by: Bond Bug 7th October 2014, 03:36 AM

No way! It is happening this year! No way will they miss the Christmas market because Jason has left, that they already knew about.

Posted by: jay727 7th October 2014, 07:16 AM

They are supposedly filming the video for the new single today. It has a provisional release date of 24 Nov, with the album a week later

Posted by: pippa 7th October 2014, 08:38 AM

I hope this is still going ahead, i really expected some news confirming a release by now.

Posted by: jay727 7th October 2014, 09:51 PM

There's going to be news on Friday apparently! Confirmed by the showbiz editor of The Sun. Apparently Howard's daughter has said the single will be previewed on Friday too! Hope this is true!

Posted by: Aphrodite 8th October 2014, 12:53 AM

Please may this be true

Posted by: Bond Bug 8th October 2014, 02:56 AM

Yay! Fantastic!

Posted by: jay727 9th October 2014, 06:52 AM

This has been confirmed by the official website and by Gary on twitter. Tomorrow at half 7!

Posted by: gooddelta 9th October 2014, 11:11 AM

Excited to hear the new single. I hope it's more Patience/Rule The World/The Flood and less Greatest Day, the only time I've been underwhelmed by a lead single since their return.

Posted by: jay727 9th October 2014, 12:56 PM

It's upbeat and makes you want to dance apparently

Posted by: pippa 9th October 2014, 05:47 PM

I cant wait to hear this, i am super excited.

Posted by: jay727 9th October 2014, 06:12 PM

The album is called III and will be released on 1 December, presumely with the single coming the week before.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/5984116/Take-That-announce-first-album-as-a-trio-titled-III.html

Posted by: Cat62 9th October 2014, 06:25 PM

So much news today! New design at takethat.com, too. Really excited to hear the new single! Read on Twitter that they will be at Chris Evans show att BBC Radio 2 (?) tomorrow morning.

Posted by: gooddelta 9th October 2014, 07:34 PM

A slightly later release date than I'd imagined, but it will guarantee them the No.1. I'm sure they'd have wiped the floor with Olly Murs had it been released a week earlier but you can never be sure how people will take to them as a trio.

Posted by: jay727 9th October 2014, 08:37 PM

Here's the album artwork:
http://m.digitalspy.co.uk/music/news/a602483/take-that-announce-new-album-iii-ahead-of-song-debut-tomorrow.html#~oSedUmisvw9n6I

Posted by: IrisAlbastru 9th October 2014, 08:49 PM

Love the artwork! Really artistic . And LOL at the name of the album. It is now very clear to me that they knew for a looooong time that Jason won't take part, everything looks to well to be rushed in the past week. Perhaps they hoped he will change his mind...

Now i hope i will like more the music as in the Progress.

Posted by: Aphrodite 9th October 2014, 11:07 PM

i totally agree that they have kniwn jason was going for a while,im really looking fieward to hearing the new stuff,the album sleeve is a big improvement on prigress.

Posted by: jay727 10th October 2014, 07:26 AM

I LOVE IT! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOz_fuQk-Wo

Posted by: -Jay- 10th October 2014, 07:37 AM

Surprisingly up-tempo! Really enjoyable.

Just pre-ordered the box set.

Posted by: gooddelta 10th October 2014, 08:06 AM

It's very good and catchy, interesting to hear that their vocals are sort of meshed together in places and in parts it's hard to tell who's singing.

The irony of them releasing a single called These Days a week after Robbie releases The Days is not lost on me either

Posted by: mr_aly 10th October 2014, 10:31 AM

I didn't even think of that!

I like this, I wasn't expecting it to be so disco-y. In my mind I always expect a blandfest like 'Greatest Day' (maybe that song scarred my memory so much), so I'm always pleasantly surprised.

Posted by: slowdown73 10th October 2014, 11:27 AM

I've preordered the deluxe album via Amazon.

Posted by: Mybelle 10th October 2014, 11:39 AM

I must admit I like the new single. I noticed the signed box set of the album has already sold out of pre-orders. The signs for it selling well look good.

Posted by: pippa 10th October 2014, 02:47 PM

I love the new single.... they are back back back with a bang.

Posted by: slowdown73 10th October 2014, 02:55 PM

Its strange how Robbie Williams features on Avicii's new song called "the days" and Take That are releasing a song called "these days" at around the same time.

Posted by: slowdown73 10th October 2014, 05:01 PM

Deluxe Edition on google play has 6 bonus tracks (3 extra tracks to Cd deluxe) which are as follows;

16. Fall down at your feet
17. If it's not love
18. These days (Pitron & Sanna club mix)

Posted by: Kath 10th October 2014, 05:25 PM

Heard the song this morning and thought it was OK. Definitely better than The Flood. Gary's come up with a pretty good song.

Posted by: slowdown73 10th October 2014, 05:40 PM

I've just heard the song and have to say it didn't really stand out for me. I was expecting more to be honest and don't think its a great comeback single.

Posted by: Kath 10th October 2014, 06:54 PM

Its a little 1D-like but that's no bad thing is it?

Posted by: IrisAlbastru 10th October 2014, 08:17 PM

Actually for me has a little bit of '90 sound about it. Me liking (Oh God, i start to get old if i begin to reminisce the '90 pop sound) . I might forget them for not releasing "Hold up a light" as a proper single (or maybe not, snifff).

For sure , it is not Shine and Rule the world either, no massive stand-alone song, but it is a nice, very nice invitation for me to hear the album.

Posted by: slowdown73 10th October 2014, 10:04 PM

I wouldn't compare it to 1D and they're a pile of poop anyway. Maybe it will grow on me after a few more listens but just felt a bit underwhelmed by the song on first listen. Its certainly not as good as patience or the flood.

Posted by: jay727 10th October 2014, 10:46 PM

I think it's excellent. Feedback online has been fantastic too

Posted by: Aphrodite 11th October 2014, 12:20 AM

I like it but feel its a song that should be a third single,its underwhelming in comparison to rule the world,shine.the flood,patience etc. Its a grower though and i prefer it to greatest day,i love the circus album but greatest day doesnt really do it for me.

Posted by: Hayzayy 11th October 2014, 11:44 AM

It would have been a nice 1D album track. I see they're following in the footsteps of the biggest boy band

Posted by: jay727 11th October 2014, 11:52 AM

Posted by: Cat62 11th October 2014, 03:36 PM

I like These Days a lot. It's a very catchy, up-tempo, good mood song. I don't know about the song remdinding of 1D because I don't listen to them . I like the kind of disco feel the song has and the Nile Rodgers/Chic-sounding guitars that also Daft Punk/Pharrell Williams used in "Get Lucky".

Also, great artwork! So much better than the ugly artwork for Progress.

Posted by: Noahspike 11th October 2014, 05:02 PM

This is great (apart from the 'oh oh oh oh oh' outro - not a fan of that)! Fair play to them for experimenting with their formula so much and taking risks 20+ years into their career.

Posted by: Aphrodite 12th October 2014, 10:35 AM

When the talent is there its easy to experiment,havin free reign also helps as many bands dont get that

Posted by: Rob! 12th October 2014, 10:57 PM

The Flood remains their best comeback lead single for me. I'd put this 2nd. Pretty catchy for them. Still can't bear Gary though. Hope Mark will get more featured on the album.

Posted by: iamstrong 13th October 2014, 12:33 AM

These Days is great. Have high hopes for the album.

Posted by: pippa 13th October 2014, 11:31 AM

The Flood was a wonderful lead single, such an anthem that still sounds so fresh. These Days is simply catchy and strong.

Posted by: nirvanamusic 13th October 2014, 04:33 PM

If they were able to get a #1 with the single would they be the first in the UK to get one as a 5, 4 and 3? Their competition seems to be McBusted Air Guitar don't know about other single releases on 23rd.

They haven't learnt though about promo to release still. 6 weeks is a long time for a lead single from first airplay and by time of release most could be itching for something new but we'll see.

Posted by: slowdown73 13th October 2014, 11:01 PM

Avicii is also out the same day with new single, the days.

Posted by: Aphrodite 14th October 2014, 12:47 AM

I cant see them going to number 1 id love it but top 5 is more realistic for me,they arent a singles act anymore or should i say they are not the force they once were in the singles market, instead they are an almighty force in the album chart which is better. Atop 5,hopefully a minimum top 20 follow up and a top 75 is likely how the singles will perform from the album. I do hope the label manage a good release strategy as the handling of their last few singles has been horrific.

Posted by: gooddelta 14th October 2014, 08:29 AM

I just hope it goes top ten, they definitely aren't a singles act any more though, The Flood was almost certainly their final huge single.

Avicii will probably chart higher, even though his song is really massively inferior and if there's any justice it won't be much of a hit at all (and this comes as somebody who had Avicii at No.1 in my end of year singles AND album chart last year).

Posted by: jay727 14th October 2014, 11:51 AM

The Avicii song isn't very good at all. Gary came extremely close to topping the charts last year with let me go so maybe TT can surprise us.

Posted by: nirvanamusic 14th October 2014, 03:06 PM

Not sure which thread to put this in but Take That's albums have FINALLY gone onto USA iTunes so better late than never. However the only thing missing is the Rule The World single. Perhaps with more requests that'll come onto the store. Now the US fans won't have to import constantly. Hopefully this means the new album will get a digital release there also!

Posted by: jay727 14th October 2014, 05:26 PM

Oh! That's very interesting, thanks for the heads up!

Posted by: slowdown73 14th October 2014, 11:05 PM

I actually prefer Avicii's song to Take That's new one.

Posted by: Aphrodite 15th October 2014, 12:04 AM

I love Avicii but an underwhelmed by the new single,wake me up is brilliant and lay ne down and addicted you i listen to loads but the new song doesnt build or go anywhere for me.I prefer take thats new single but its not as good as some of their previous work,its also better than some of their previous singles.

Posted by: jay727 15th October 2014, 07:14 AM

Agreed. Aviciis song doesn't go anywhere and Robbie's vocal isnt as strong as it usually is either.

I'm optimistic about These Days. Seems to have got good feedback. Would be amazing if it became their 12th number 1, especially when you think of the likes of 1D who struggle to get to number 1 here

Posted by: pippa 15th October 2014, 04:05 PM

A 12th number 1 would be warmly welcomed, One Direction are a bigger singles band than Take That and they cant get the number 1;s, it is even harder for Take That to get it.

Posted by: Aphrodite 19th October 2014, 12:43 PM

Sales wise they could have a chance but i think streaming will work against Take That.

Posted by: jay727 21st October 2014, 07:50 PM

The album will be released in the US on the same day as here

Posted by: nirvanamusic 21st October 2014, 08:05 PM

Oh that's good a USA release finally. Where did you learn that? Currently despite earlier this month the new albums being released it's still old songs that are the most popular on US iTunes. The top ten is:

1.)Back For Good (top 3 followed by)
2.)How Deep Is Your Love
3.)When We Were Young
4.)Never Forget
5.)Relight My Fire
6.)A Million Love Songs
7.)Could It Be Magic
8.)Pray
9.)Rule The World (live) (Studio single release not available)
10.)Love Ain't Here Anymore

Post 2005 Top 5 USA iTunes are:

1.)When We Were Young
2.)Rule The World (live)
3.)Patience
4.)The Flood
5.)Greatest Day

Album wise:

1.)Never Forget: Ultimate Collection
2.)Greatest Day (Live)
3.)Progressed
4.)The Circus
5.)Progress (Live)

I really think they'll need to promote in Europe at least for this record as 4 years is a long time, even more so for an older pop band. The Circus wasn't promoted and that didn't do great outside the UK/Ireland.

Posted by: jay727 22nd October 2014, 06:55 AM

It was on the release schedule for metacritic. Agreed, but judging by Gary's tweets, it suggests that TT will be promoting if not touring in Europe, Australia and possibly the US

Posted by: pippa 22nd October 2014, 04:42 PM

Selfish you will say but my concern is UK promotion and lots of it please.

Posted by: jay727 23rd October 2014, 06:57 AM

UK must be the main concern, promotion of all their singles, especially These Days is absolutely key.

Posted by: pippa 23rd October 2014, 06:34 PM

Fully agree. Promotion is so important for them at this stage, a strong promotional campaign throughout November will boost album sales massively.

Posted by: slowdown73 25th October 2014, 06:46 PM

Not sure I agree poo direction are bigger singles band than Take That. Just look at the sales of patience, rule the world and the flood. They have all sold more than most 1D singles expect what makes you beautiful. Take That tend to sell well with their first and second singles from an album but like most acts once the album has sold well the singles don't fare so well and this is also the same for 1D.

Posted by: mr_aly 26th October 2014, 11:54 AM

A lot can change in 4 years these days though, it's a good single but I can see this perhaps doing an 'Into The Blue' for them (maybe if they get an X-Factor performance it can get top 10 though).

At least the album should do well for them.

Posted by: jay727 26th October 2014, 01:49 PM

They will have an XF performance and I think it'll be top 5 minimum

Posted by: Outcast 26th October 2014, 04:43 PM

New single can be their "Lighthouse" in the terms of chart success.
Modern UK singles chart is EDM, EDM, EDM.

Posted by: gooddelta 26th October 2014, 06:04 PM

Hard to guage how well the album will open. It's obviously going to be a huge drop off from Progress, the hype sadly seems pretty minimal. I guess Beautiful World had the comeback hype, The Circus sold very well due to the hype still being around (and heavy first week discounting iirc) and Progress obviously did so well because of Robbie's return and the natural happy ending to the story.

But I guess with the band being down to three, the tax evasion controversy, a four year gap between albums and no real buzz to speak of, it might 'only' clear 150-200k first week.

Posted by: slowdown73 27th October 2014, 11:35 AM

I think III will do ok in terms of sales. Its not going to sell like their previous albums as album sales have dropped through the roof but it's likely to be no1 over the December period. I doubt it will sell a million this year.

Posted by: jay727 27th October 2014, 01:47 PM

We'll see. I think it'll easily sell 350k min first week.

Posted by: pippa 28th October 2014, 11:44 AM

350,000 opening would be wonderful. I am not confident it will happen but will welcome it if it does.

Posted by: jay727 28th October 2014, 06:15 PM

It's been 4 years since a TT record and with a great lead single, a tour announcement soon, an XF performance and the Xmas market, i can't see it falling being too far away from Circus' sales.

Posted by: mr_aly 28th October 2014, 07:10 PM

It certainly will not be anywhere near The Circus' sales. That is a pipe dream if ever I heard one.

Posted by: gooddelta 28th October 2014, 08:46 PM

I think 250k would be a MAJOR achievement for them but my prediction is around 150-200k, more than happy to eat humble pie though if it's a lot more. (Will cry if it's less).

Posted by: Kath 28th October 2014, 09:03 PM

Now now Richie! Its Tax Avoidance - not Tax Evasion. Evasion is illegal, Avoidance is just morally bankrupt (so said David Cameron).

Anyway - I say 300K first week (I know TT fans - they buy one for themselves and a dozen copies for Christmas presents for their friends and family).

Posted by: gooddelta 28th October 2014, 11:15 PM

Oops! Freudian slip

Posted by: Aphrodite 29th October 2014, 12:53 AM

The sales climate has changed since they last released so im finding it hard to call but i would be hugely disappointed if it sells anything less than 150,000 in its opening week. I would jump with joy if it did match the opening sales of the circus or progess but i cant see it happening. Overall i would be happy if the album can manage 1 million UK sales and for it to be added to their previous million sellers and more.

Posted by: Neil. S 29th October 2014, 01:09 PM

150k would be nice Imo! Anything close to 200k would be great

Posted by: Kath 31st October 2014, 12:13 AM

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/take-film-new-video-see-4537790

Posted by: gooddelta 31st October 2014, 09:31 AM

I love the video actually, good to see some humour.

Posted by: jsilv 31st October 2014, 09:32 AM

just about to say i love that video loads, really made me love the song now too!

Posted by: jay727 31st October 2014, 10:11 AM

It's quite a funny video, has echoes of the 90s videos

Great to hear that These Days has been playlisted on Capital, Heart and A list on Radio 2

Posted by: gooddelta 31st October 2014, 10:28 AM

Shame it's doing so badly on pre-orders, I really hope there's an X Factor performance due or it may only scrape the top 20

Posted by: pippa 31st October 2014, 02:56 PM

A few performance slots is needed soon.

Posted by: jay727 31st October 2014, 03:59 PM

I don't recall any TT songs doing well on preorders. An XF performance is guaranteed, Simon Cowell and producers know that TT will draw an audience to the show

Posted by: Aphrodite 1st November 2014, 09:17 PM

These Days has really grown on me the last week or so, its stuck in my head now, very catchy chorus.

Posted by: jay727 2nd November 2014, 01:55 PM

It's doing well in terms of radio play so that's great, with about a month to go before release - 5 in the UK AirPlay chart this week

Posted by: Aphrodite 2nd November 2014, 10:16 PM

May it keep climbing in pre-orders due to airplay.

Posted by: pippa 3rd November 2014, 09:40 AM

It should only start improving its positions from here if radio support building.

Posted by: jay727 3rd November 2014, 05:08 PM

I wonder who will sing the John Lewis song this year and whether it is a good song? It challenged Gary for #1 last November and should probably be released and gaining momentum around the time of These Days.

These Days is doing well in preorders, inside the top 300 with 3 weeks to go...hopefully it'll creep up higher and higher as the release date approaches

Posted by: pippa 3rd November 2014, 06:57 PM

Is Pixie Lott Caravan of Love cover not the John Lewis song this year?

Posted by: mr_aly 3rd November 2014, 07:38 PM

No.

Posted by: pippa 4th November 2014, 09:14 AM

I had thought Pixie was, i wonder who it will be then, as usually we know by now.

Posted by: jay727 4th November 2014, 07:36 PM

These Days up to 250 on preorders with 3 weeks to go.

Posted by: pippa 5th November 2014, 05:02 PM

More climbs from here in will be good.

Posted by: jay727 7th November 2014, 02:16 PM

Get Ready has been confirmed as the second single...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2824605/BAZ-BAMIGBOYE-magic-Colin-Firth-joins-That.html

Posted by: Bond Bug 9th November 2014, 10:03 PM

Number 1 on Amazon (at time of posting!)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/III-Take-That/dp/B00OA5WA2M/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1415570421&sr=1-1&keywords=III

Audio CD (1 Dec 2014)
Number of Discs: 1
Label: Polydor
ASIN: B00OA5W806
Other Editions: Audio CD | MP3 Download
Amazon Bestsellers Rank: 1 in Music (See Top 100 in Music)
#1 in Music > Pop


In fact, they are number 1 and number 2! This shows it better:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/music/ref=pd_dp_ts_m_h__1

Posted by: pippa 10th November 2014, 11:01 AM

Great start. I am starting to find it hard to predict opening sales. They appear organised with singles already confirming the 2nd release. Lets just hope the promotion is in place for it and the singles promotion and release strategy has improved.

Posted by: pippa 10th November 2014, 02:56 PM

Hugely disappointed Take That are not on the new line up for Band Aid.

Posted by: jay727 10th November 2014, 03:02 PM

Very surprised. These Days won't make #1 now, Band Aid has been announced for release on Nov 17.

Posted by: Aphrodite 11th November 2014, 12:23 AM

I never had high hopes of number 1 so I'm not disappointed, I am surprised they aren't part of band aid 30 though.

Posted by: jay727 12th November 2014, 01:51 PM

I don't know, I had a feeling they might have a great chance with no notable competition that week.

I don't know why they excluded the likes of TT, Kylie, Elton, George Michael etc...big mistake imo

Posted by: elisabeth1973 12th November 2014, 02:24 PM

they want it fresh. I think it is a mistake to use this song again anyway. But it is clearly good not to always hook to the same artists. there are enough young ones who showed their abilities. They even got Adele

Posted by: pippa 12th November 2014, 03:31 PM

Adele is a big draw and the new line up will attract the younger audience to buy the track. On the cd version i would like to see the original, the 1989 version, Band Aid 20 all on it. This would increase the purchasing appeal to a larger audience.

Posted by: jay727 12th November 2014, 04:08 PM

I don't actually rate the song that much anyways. All the years I've listened to it I still don't know all the words....

Posted by: pippa 12th November 2014, 04:52 PM

It is up high on my list of most liked Christmas songs.

Posted by: truly talented 12th November 2014, 05:31 PM

I know this won't be popular in here but I for one wouldn't be happy with TT members appearing on a charity single. I hope they aren't on CIN at the weekend either, pedalling their wares, asking the public to dig deep.

Posted by: jay727 12th November 2014, 08:19 PM

Completely entitled to your opinion...I personally would love then to perform on CIN but it seems they won't perform anywhere till after XF

Posted by: Kath 12th November 2014, 08:35 PM

It would appear a tad hypocritical if they were to take part. Mind you hypocrisy hasn't stopped Bono!

I agree with Jay727 though on the song itself - I can't stand it. I didn't even like the first version.

Posted by: Kath 12th November 2014, 08:36 PM

double posted!!!!

Posted by: Aphrodite 12th November 2014, 09:08 PM

I really like the song and like the s.a.w version but hated the 3rd version .

Posted by: pippa 13th November 2014, 09:49 AM

I hope the X Factor performance is the week after the album is released, opening sales will be fine. Promotion to boost the second week sales i feel would be more advantageous to them.

Posted by: jay727 13th November 2014, 12:05 PM

TT will perform on XF on the 23rd and then the Graham Norton show on the 28th!

Posted by: Mybelle 13th November 2014, 08:03 PM

Thanks for that info. I like Graham Norton anyway. I hope he interviews them rather than just have them on at the end and not really speak to them.

Posted by: jay727 13th November 2014, 10:36 PM

Yeah it's an interview and then they will perform These Days at the end of the show

Posted by: pippa 14th November 2014, 09:40 AM

Graham Norton is now something to really look forward to, interview and performance. The performance here and X Factor will certainly give the sales a good boost.

Posted by: slowdown73 15th November 2014, 01:41 PM

These days is available as limited edition CD single pre-order via Universal. Anybody know if this is just a 1 track Cd single or more tracks on it? Thanks

Posted by: jay727 15th November 2014, 05:35 PM

I heard it has a song on it that is exclusive to google play. I would imagine th instrumental would be on there too

Posted by: slowdown73 16th November 2014, 12:33 PM

I hope the bonus tracks from google will be on the CD single. Fingers crossed.

Posted by: Aphrodite 16th November 2014, 02:10 PM

It would be draft not to as it will attract more CD single sales. I'm delighted its getting a physical release as I have bought all CDsingles they have released in the past,vinyl and cassette before that.

Posted by: jay727 16th November 2014, 02:14 PM

Will you be buying the CD of this single?

Posted by: Aphrodite 16th November 2014, 07:56 PM

Of course, thats if i can get it.

Posted by: jay727 16th November 2014, 09:12 PM

XF confirmed next week. Performing Sunday.
Labyrinth and David Guetta Emelie Sande are performing too, hopefully one will be on Saturday

Posted by: Aphrodite 16th November 2014, 10:37 PM

I really hope Take That are Sunday and not Saturday as the sales from a saturday performance go to a different week, so hopefully its sunday.

Posted by: jay727 16th November 2014, 10:58 PM

They are definitely on Sunday. I just hope that one of the other two is on Saturday. Maybe David Guetta would be more suited

Posted by: Aphrodite 17th November 2014, 01:05 AM

Ya David Guetta would be more suited to Saturday. Im realy looking forward to Take Thats performance.

Posted by: jay727 17th November 2014, 07:56 AM

Just don't want it to get lost in the noise like face to face

Posted by: pippa 17th November 2014, 01:33 PM

It wont happen, face to face was a 2nd single from an album that had already sold well. These Days is a lead single and a comeback single with a reduced line up.

Posted by: Bond Bug 17th November 2014, 05:39 PM

Agreed, in addition the second single could be HUGE, as it is linked to the promotion of a new movie that could get a lot of attention. Note that Colin Firth has been in some of the biggest all-time British movies, including Mama Mia, The King's Speech, Love Actually and two Bridget Jones movies. If Kingsman: The Secret Service does anything like the business of any of those movies, the second single will get a ton of exposure and maintain momentum for the album.

Posted by: slowdown73 18th November 2014, 12:35 AM

Yes, I've bought most of their CD singles too particularly since beautiful world album. These days may even get to no1 too - I know its up against Band Aid but that's a very poor version of the song.

Posted by: pippa 19th November 2014, 02:55 PM

The cd release is a great idea and they should treat it as something worthwhile for fans to purchase.

Posted by: jay727 19th November 2014, 07:53 PM

These Days at #139 on iTunes. Hopefully it'll push towards the 90s before Saturday evening

Posted by: pippa 20th November 2014, 03:53 PM

Ideally top 100 before midnight Saturday, and full steam ahead with sales from Sunday onwards. While i would like the single to do well i am more excited to the performance of the album. I know it will not be met with the opening sales of the last 3 studio albums, but i would like to think it can reach 200,000.

Posted by: jay727 21st November 2014, 11:21 AM

These Days is out today in Ireland - #4 last time I checked!

Posted by: pippa 21st November 2014, 12:30 PM

Great start in Ireland which would indicate it will do very well in the UK as well.

Posted by: jay727 21st November 2014, 01:53 PM

These Days is in the top 100 now! #96

Posted by: jay727 21st November 2014, 05:05 PM

Heart are playing an album song from III If You Want It at 8.40 on Monday. My friend just messaged me and said they just mentioned it on the radio

TT are performing on Strictly on 5 Dec

Posted by: gooddelta 21st November 2014, 11:19 PM

Looks like it's going to do much better than I'd initially thought, really good to see!

Posted by: mr_aly 22nd November 2014, 03:55 PM

'These Days' is #5 on Irish iTunes, which bodes well for the UK!

Posted by: Aphrodite 22nd November 2014, 05:25 PM

I hope it goes at least top 10 here in Ireland,top 3 could happen in the Uk but for some reason I can see them ending up number 4.

Posted by: jay727 22nd November 2014, 05:54 PM

76 on iTunes atm

Posted by: -Jay- 22nd November 2014, 06:12 PM

I received the CD single today - it's a digipak (can't even remember the last digipak single I bought!) and it's only a 2-track, the second track being the Instrumental. I'm not too disappointed because I feared it might only be a 1-track, but a B Side would have been more appreciated.

Posted by: jay727 22nd November 2014, 07:05 PM

I've seen pics of it on Twitter, it looks really nice actually

Posted by: Aphrodite 23rd November 2014, 02:15 AM

Up to number 7 on iTunes already which is an excellent start, x fa or will see it rise further but I fear streamingwwill go against them.

Posted by: jay727 23rd November 2014, 02:17 AM

It's a great song so let's hope!

First album review I've seen...(4.5 stars out of 5)

http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/music/sunshine-pop-from-take-that-this-winter-30745398.html?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=uk&usg=AFQjCNH44-cS9lCRjsWnZU69NABxj6wzEw&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&ei=k2tnVLiEMKal8QGa84CIDQ

Posted by: gooddelta 23rd November 2014, 09:28 AM

#5 on iTunes, impressive start before X Factor, they still have their fans!

Posted by: jay727 23rd November 2014, 11:30 AM

#2 now! Behind Band Aid

Posted by: gooddelta 23rd November 2014, 11:36 AM

Coming for that 21 year number one span!?!

Posted by: slowdown73 23rd November 2014, 02:59 PM

I am disappointed with the tracklist for these days Cd single. I ordered two copies and sold both of mine on Ebay today. Its no2 on iTunes already so looking positive. Hope it gets to no1 or has decent sales.

Posted by: Aphrodite 23rd November 2014, 03:15 PM

These days is gaining fast on band aid 30 and that's before x factor,hopefully it can gain some streaming points as if they do another number 1 looks very possible,its boding well now for the album to open with good sales as they have some great promo lined up. I agree the CD single track listing is disappointing adding a good b side would have really boosted sales.

Posted by: jay727 23rd November 2014, 05:31 PM

Hope it overtakes band aid!

Posted by: Mybelle 23rd November 2014, 07:46 PM

The single's already doing amazingly well considering it only came out at midnight. They were way ahead of McBusted who also released at the same time. I hope they get the number 1 they deserve.

Posted by: jay727 23rd November 2014, 09:48 PM

Great performance by the guys! Just a shame Geldof came on and told everyone to buy Band Aid again

Posted by: Aphrodite 23rd November 2014, 09:50 PM

Great performance on x factor, the band aid plug will probably push take that back from number 1 but a number 2 with good sales is good too.

Posted by: jay727 23rd November 2014, 10:01 PM

Disappointed with that Band Aid plug tbh. Needless, and TT would probably be #1 now. Still, fingers crossed

Posted by: Aphrodite 23rd November 2014, 11:15 PM

Looks like another number 2 for them.

Posted by: jay727 24th November 2014, 07:52 AM

Frustrating how this could be the 4th time including Gary where it's so close but not enough

Posted by: Aphrodite 24th November 2014, 08:41 AM

25 years on and getting top 3 hits is amazing as not many manage it nowadays.

Posted by: jay727 24th November 2014, 09:07 AM

Yeah good point...

I don't know if anyone has heard this, an album track called If You Want It.

http://m.mixcloud.com/michellethornton2203/new-tt-song/

Posted by: pippa 24th November 2014, 02:18 PM

I can only agree with this point. Also 25 years on and still selling out huge tours and selling albums in big numbers is just an incredible achievement.

Posted by: jay727 24th November 2014, 05:49 PM

These Days debuts at #89 in Germany

Posted by: pippa 24th November 2014, 06:08 PM

Hopefully it can climb in Germany.

Posted by: Aphrodite 24th November 2014, 07:10 PM

A climb would be great as it would help the album too.

Posted by: jay727 24th November 2014, 07:56 PM

I think it will, it's high 70s at the moment without any promo over there yet

Posted by: Aphrodite 24th November 2014, 09:02 PM

I'm starting to think the album will open with about 250,000.

Posted by: jay727 25th November 2014, 11:41 AM

These Days is #1 in the Tues Mids. Hopefully Band Aid will continue to fall and TT's Graham Norton performance will be enough to get them over the line.

Posted by: pippa 25th November 2014, 11:42 AM

In the current sales climate, 250,000 would be wonderful. The albums market has changed dramatically since Progress was released and to achieve the opening sales of their last 3 studio albums is a very hard task. It is possible they may come near but its likely sales will be down. One Direction for example were 100,000 down with their new album opening sales comparing to the opening sales of their previous album last year.

If three manages 1 million UK sales in total i think it is a good outcome. More than it would be even more wonderful.

Posted by: jay727 25th November 2014, 11:53 AM

I think it's preorders will be very strong seeing as the album on Amazon came with presale codes and was #1 and #2 for a week before they went on sale

Posted by: milly 25th November 2014, 12:40 PM

All their previous albums opened with sales of about 400k. I was hoping III could sell at least 300k in the first week, but, as long as the sales are good and ensure them a no 1, I'll be happy.
We have to see how much AC/DC sell during the 1st week as well. In pre-orders, I think TT are ahead of them.

Posted by: jay727 25th November 2014, 01:28 PM

Hi Milly - welcome!

I don't think AC/DC will sell more than TT - I do feel 300k is about right

Posted by: elisabeth1973 25th November 2014, 04:06 PM

They will be number one with their album in the UK, although all three songs heard by now are nothing against the Circus or Progress, imo. But they will be no 1 because of the pre-orders and their strong fan base. They have not charted well with the Circus anywhere else than in the UK and Ireland. Progress was an exception because of the super star status of RW in Europe and the fact that all 5 members were together again. Considering the music which is in the charts in Germany and Holland or Italy and France these days, they will hardly hit the top 30 with the single and the top 10 with the album. Like Gary's album didn't chart anywhere for long despite promo in Germany. Their sales will be UK sales where they will hit 1 million, add 150,000 in the rest of Europe and thats' it. Nail me on that.

Posted by: pippa 25th November 2014, 04:50 PM

I am just delighted with UK success, they can sell enough in the UK to keep them ticking over financially.

Posted by: tryffel 25th November 2014, 05:49 PM

How importent will streaming be for the top spot on the singles chart?

In scandinavia, streaming is is over 95 % of the singles chart but i guess is not the same thing in the UK

Posted by: Cat62 25th November 2014, 05:49 PM

Another song could be heard today; Let In The Sun. From the three songs we've heard so far I like These Days the best. I'm not so sure yet about the other two songs . I've pre-ordered the deluxe album from Google Play and it says it will be available already 27 November, so hopefully I can listen to the full album already on Thursday.

Posted by: jay727 25th November 2014, 06:16 PM

I really really like the second song they released, If You Want It

Posted by: Mybelle 25th November 2014, 08:15 PM

Yeah, I really liked that on first listen too. Anyone got a link to the one mentioned call Let in the Sun?

Posted by: pippa 26th November 2014, 09:30 AM

If You Want It is great, i am loving the sound of this album so far. I sense this album will be better than progress. That said, i really enjoyed progress/progressed, the flood is one of my favourite singles ever by them but i always prefered beautiful world and the circus.

Posted by: jay727 26th November 2014, 09:35 AM

I loved The Flood but I felt the album (which I think is very good btw) tried to be too much of everything.

Really looking forward to III

Wonder if XF will have TT back for the final? Would be great to have them do their new single

Posted by: pippa 26th November 2014, 09:55 AM

A return for the X Factor final would be wonderful. Progress had a mixed sound, and i should have mentioned in my previous post eight letters was a fantastic track too, it was a different release from them as they had to incorporate Robbie's tastes and it did work, i just prefer the output from the previous albums.

Posted by: pippa 26th November 2014, 04:28 PM

Number 2 in the Wednesday Chart update but just 1,700 behind Band Aid,the number 1 is all to play for. The Graham Norton show could possibly swing the number 1 for them.

Posted by: jay727 26th November 2014, 05:06 PM

It would be amazing. Streams could play a part. Judging by TT's streams right now, you can add another 250 onto their sales

Posted by: pippa 27th November 2014, 09:35 AM

Is there a streaming chart that can be viewed during the week??? I am not in full understanding of how streaming works. When you say judging by streams Take That have 250 to add to sales, how many have Band Aid?

What websites count towards streaming apart from spotfy, i want to do my part to help the streams.

Posted by: jay727 27th November 2014, 09:55 AM

Yeah use this link: http://charts.spotify.com/?object=tracks&rank=most_streamed&country=gb&windowtype=daily&date=latest

I think every 100 streams counts as 1 sale

Band Aid don't have streaming (not released till January on streaming sites)

Posted by: pippa 27th November 2014, 04:52 PM

Streaming it will be for a few days, every sale is extremely crucial as these days has such a great chance of number 1.

Posted by: jay727 27th November 2014, 08:25 PM

Take That are #1 on iTunes! They are about 1,400 copies behind Band Aid so let's hope they can do it!

Posted by: Aphrodite 28th November 2014, 02:07 AM

Finally at number 1,the official number 1 is so close now.

Posted by: Kath 28th November 2014, 10:44 AM

I've no idea how streaming works - but read this yesterday.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/26/take-that-google-spotify-streaming-iii-album-gary-barlow

Posted by: pippa 28th November 2014, 11:33 AM

I would believe streaming is easier to manipulate than downloading (legally).

Posted by: nirvanamusic 28th November 2014, 04:24 PM

Ok so apparently Robbie is releasing an album and going head to head with Take That this Monday?

edit: It seems Robbie's album can only be bought off his website and won't make the charts.

Posted by: jay727 28th November 2014, 04:51 PM

Even if it could chart there is no way it would challenge III imo

Posted by: Aphrodite 28th November 2014, 05:24 PM

Even if Robbie releases I can't see him beating take that.Im really starting to believe these days will be the new number 1 on sunday

Posted by: jay727 29th November 2014, 01:23 AM

Great performance on Graham Norton and back to #1 after a couple of hours back at #2.

Band Aid is falling so hopefully TT will keep selling and stay top tomorrow!

Posted by: Aphrodite 29th November 2014, 02:57 AM

Hopefully the graham Norton boost is enough to get number 1, waiting to see who is number 1 on Sunday will be exciting/nerve wrecking all in one,another number one would be brilliant.

Posted by: Mybelle 29th November 2014, 07:34 AM

I thought their performance on Graham Norton was much better than X Factor. At least they sounded like they sung the whole thing live too.

Posted by: slowdown73 29th November 2014, 03:54 PM

I think TT will be no1 on sunday now given how Band Aid 30 seems to be falling quite quickly on iTunes and their performance last night will no doubt have helped.

Posted by: suggy 29th November 2014, 04:10 PM

Just popped in to say I think Howard is a very funny and lovely man, that is all.

Posted by: milly 29th November 2014, 04:45 PM

Their performance last night was miles better than the one on X Factor and I loved the new arrangement. I'm pretty confident they'll be no 1 on Sunday, with the lead they've had on Band Aid for the past couple of days.

Posted by: jay727 29th November 2014, 05:06 PM

They have had at least 0.2000 lead on Band Aid for the last 16/17 hours so let's hope!

Posted by: jay727 29th November 2014, 05:18 PM

yeah his Twitter account always makes me laugh

Posted by: Mybelle 29th November 2014, 07:39 PM

The man is a legend.

Posted by: jay727 29th November 2014, 08:21 PM

Still #1 on iTunes. Let's hope it can stay there till 12!

Posted by: Bond Bug 29th November 2014, 08:47 PM

Seems impossible now for Band Aid to hold onto number one. The math is working for Take That. This is extra special good news, because if this new album didn't become a big hit, the remaining trio may have decided to end it.

Posted by: jay727 29th November 2014, 09:40 PM

Makes it even more special as it wasn't expected

Posted by: Aphrodite 30th November 2014, 04:40 AM

Graham Norton performance was great,so they discussed splitting when Jason left,thank god they didn't and i hope they don't when the 3 era is wrapped up.

Posted by: milly 30th November 2014, 08:18 AM

If III is doing great, I hope they hurry up with the next album so they don't lose the momentum.
III is incredible and deserves to receive a lot of awards. I hope a new Ivor Novello is in the bag next year.

Posted by: Bond Bug 30th November 2014, 11:30 AM

I hope so, but I am thinking that maybe they might go for another greatest hits album next. It will be 10 years since the last one next year and they will have had four number one albums and four number one singles since then.

By they way, is it a bit strange that the album is only at number 15 on Amazon, a day before its release?

Posted by: slowdown73 30th November 2014, 12:01 PM

Has anyone heard the google play three bonus tracks; fall down at your feet, If it's not love and these days (pitron & sanna mix)? I suppose they haven't leaked yet as not out until tomorrow.

Posted by: milly 30th November 2014, 12:16 PM

Fall down at your feet is one of my favorites and If it's not love was a grower for me - both great tracks. In my opinion, Fall at Your Feet should have been on all album versions, because it's amongst the standouts.

Posted by: milly 30th November 2014, 12:20 PM

It is a bit strange that it's only 14, but I'm hoping it will shoot to no 1 tomorrow. Olly and 1D's weren't far better before the release.
TT's has been no 1 and 2 for a week or so - that was plenty of time to garner enough pre-orders. Besides, a lot of people bought it from Universal, myself included, and from Google Play, for the bonus tracks.
Right now, it's climbing on iTunes. Yesterday was no 90 -80 and right now it's 50.

Posted by: milly 30th November 2014, 12:21 PM

My only issue is that HMV and other physical stores are already selling the album. Shouldn't they have waited till tomorrow?

Posted by: jay727 30th November 2014, 12:36 PM

It shouldnt matter, the sales will all count to the total first week sales.

Posted by: gooddelta 30th November 2014, 01:29 PM

*resists the urge to go to HMV right now*

Posted by: jay727 30th November 2014, 04:11 PM

Really hope These Days gets to #1 - would absolutely make my week!

Posted by: elisabeth1973 30th November 2014, 04:19 PM

I am still wondering with what kind of total sales this kind of promotion is rectified and pays for Universal considering the single charts nowhere else than in the UK and Ireland and the album hits the second big market - Germany - at no 58. These days TT had become an all UK phenomena. This might be the reason they have not announced European dates yet

Posted by: jay727 30th November 2014, 04:27 PM

I think the focus is on the UK to start with and then after next week they'll start promoting in Europe.

Posted by: jay727 30th November 2014, 06:54 PM

THEY'VE DONE IT!!!! 12th #1!!!!!

THESE DAYS DEBUTS AT #1

Posted by: gooddelta 30th November 2014, 07:07 PM

To have a 21 year span between #1 singles is absolutely astonishing, I've written a blog post about its significance. Major major achievement!

http://poplovedance.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/take-that-forever-relevant.html

Posted by: Aphrodite 30th November 2014, 07:17 PM

I'm so so so happy to see take that back at the top of the singles chart,I'm loving these days at the moment.

Posted by: tryffel 30th November 2014, 07:34 PM

iam so happy for them. 6 years since the last one and i have been thinking for a while now that this might be their last chance to have a number one in the singles chart. The market are changing. When TT realese their next first single form an album, streaming will probably be bigger then Itunes, just like in Scandinavia and good old bands like TT will suffer from that.

Posted by: jay727 30th November 2014, 08:23 PM

It's incredible - there was a lot of doubt about whether they would be able to even make top 10 - but this is a clear statement of how adaptable and relevant they continue to be.

Really good read! Thanks for sharing!

Posted by: slowdown73 30th November 2014, 10:34 PM

Where have you heard them?

Posted by: gooddelta 30th November 2014, 10:56 PM

I agree, I was one of the doubters but I really should have learnt by now not to underestimate them!

Glad you liked it

Posted by: slowdown73 30th November 2014, 11:11 PM

Its fantastic news TT are no1 this week. It deserved to do well and especially good that its knocked off a charity song which sold over 300k only a week before.

Posted by: jay727 30th November 2014, 11:15 PM

It's fantastic, i thought The Flood would be the last chance to get a #1 but after Gary just missing out with LMG last year I had a hope that TT might just get there. So glad it's happened!

Posted by: mr_aly 1st December 2014, 12:11 AM

I never would have predicted this, so a big well done to them!

It is a fantastic achievement not only after so long in the business, but after being away for 4 years when so much can change in that time. Plus it seemed like the odds were stacked against this single with not as much support and pre-orders not looking overly great.

Posted by: stevyy 1st December 2014, 02:48 AM

i highly doubt that III entered the german albums chart at #58. It will def. debut in the top 10 for sure. german has a revenue chart and their album is very expensive (deluxe edition). Idk where you get this #58 position from. The album came out on friday and did obviously not make any german albums chart now. how would they?

Their last album sold around 300,000 copies in Germany and obtained a platinum award.

Posted by: SLF 1st December 2014, 04:00 AM

Well done to them! I wasn't sure they'd be able to do it, but I'm pleased they have.

Slightly disappointing for those that use Spotify, but it sounds like it's only exclusive for a while. I'm glad they left These Days and their back catalogue on there at least. It'll be interesting to see how the deal turns out for them with Google.

I've listened to the album once so I'm still trying to decide which songs I prefer, but they're all pretty good. I'm glad they're back.

Posted by: Bond Bug 1st December 2014, 04:42 AM

After all the good news about the single, now to worry about the album!

This does not look good:


Itunes - album at number 46

https://www.apple.com/uk/itunes/charts/albums/



Amazon - album at 13

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/music/


AC/DC ahead in both instances

Posted by: jay727 1st December 2014, 07:50 AM

No doubt the album will be #1 it sells in supermarkets not itunes. Can't see ACDC outselling Pink Floyd's first week at any rate

Posted by: jay727 1st December 2014, 11:03 AM

These Days sold 63,998 last week. Still a very respectable tally given the lack of hype, and with RTW and The Flood both missing out with such high first and second week sales it's nice to see that they got this #1 with slightly lower sales.

Worth mentioning that is debuted at #8 in Ireland which is good! Hopefully it'll get a bit higher when they perform out there

Posted by: milly 1st December 2014, 12:51 PM

Someone from Germany sent me the bonus tracks. The album was released there earlier.

Posted by: SLF 1st December 2014, 12:56 PM

I expect the digital version to do well on Google Play as it's number 1 there at the moment (it's cheaper than Amazon's Deluxe edition on CD OR mp3 version, and contains 3 extra songs). There was a full page ad in the Metro advertising the new album "Streaming only on Google Play" and according to http://www.musicweek.com/news/read/google-play-scores-one-month-take-that-streaming-exclusive/060215 regarding the month exclusive streaming access that Google has: "The campaign brokered by Polydor will feature a bespoke Google Play/Take That TV advert - the first the digital platform has run anywhere in the world." The article also mentions an album launch party today, hosted by Google. It's in Google's interests that this does well.

Posted by: jay727 1st December 2014, 01:56 PM

Strange how it's being sold by a private seller on Amazon and not by Amazon. Maybe it's sold out? Maybe Amazon have had a problem? Doesn't seem right that it isn't top 2 at least especially when they announced late last week that it was their most preordered album ever!

Posted by: stevyy 1st December 2014, 04:08 PM

the bonus tracks are all absolutely outstanding and brilliant. do it all for love is my fave from the whole album.

Posted by: Aphrodite 1st December 2014, 10:56 PM

I cant wait to see what sales will be in the first midweeks. Im certain the album wont go number 1 here in Ireland unless they do promo. All of their 3 previous studio albums climbed to number 1 after they did promo on the Late Late Show

Posted by: jay727 1st December 2014, 11:11 PM

Hope they do well in the mid weeks tomorrow!

Loving the album right now! Let in the sun, Freeze, and If you want it are great. Mark is fantastic on Lovelife and Into the wild and Gary and Howard on Higher Than Higher is so catchy! Get Ready For It will be a very good second single I think though.

Posted by: SLF 2nd December 2014, 12:58 AM

Google Play's free track of the week is https://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=B6y3priaaxuxv345lqvu7l2xm5q&tid=song-Tjatlbgifn2r3sdlwjj6lcwk37u which is a song from the new album. Google Play's album of the week is https://play.google.com/store/music/album/Take_That_Never_Forget_The_Ultimate_Collection?id=Btbr4qeiel6zcxtgucnq6ajt55e, costing 99p. Worth getting if you don't have them.

Hope those links work...

*Edit The Never Forget album for 99p is the one without Today I've Lost You. There's another version that includes that song, but it's £4.99. I can't see any other differences though.
*Another Edit Just seen the Google / Take That advert mentioned earlier in the thread. It's fun seeing all the TT references in such a short clip! I like it. It's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQIFVT80fbo if anyone wants to see it.

Posted by: Jayeux Noël 2nd December 2014, 04:15 PM

Received the box set today! Giving the album a listen now.

Pleased that the single reached #1, I certainly wasn't expecting it to top the charts. The album is of course #1 in the midweeks, great news.

Posted by: jay727 2nd December 2014, 05:40 PM

Excellent news! Really pleased that both the single and album are doing so well

Posted by: Aphrodite 2nd December 2014, 06:03 PM

From the first set of midweeks we know the album is certain for number 1,however,while its sales are good it won't come near the opening week of previous albums.

Posted by: slowdown73 2nd December 2014, 11:36 PM

These days doesn't look like being a big selling no1 single so hope the album has more momentum.

Posted by: Aphrodite 3rd December 2014, 02:36 AM

Hopefully these days can manage 300,O00. I hope the album can sell strong all week as those opening sales take in pre-orders.

Posted by: jay727 3rd December 2014, 08:14 AM

I don't see why it can't match Greatest Day at a minimum

Posted by: pippa 3rd December 2014, 09:42 AM

It will sell steady for until January, the album version will boost this weeks sales.

Posted by: jay727 3rd December 2014, 06:31 PM

Looks like sales aren't going to be the enormous ones of the last 3 albums but times change and I would imagine a lot of people are streaming this album now after the massive Google Play partnership.

I'd be very happy with 200k, hopefully Friday and Saturday will give it a nice sales boost

Note: Amazon is sold out of the deluxe version so that could be a factor

Posted by: jay727 4th December 2014, 06:19 PM

Slightly disappointed with sales so far, expected double if I'm honest...but for any artist to get a #1 single and then the week after sell over 100,000 albums is a great achievement, especially one that is nearly 25 years into it's career.

It will be their 7th number 1 album too which is great

Posted by: nirvanamusic 5th December 2014, 10:59 AM

Am disappointed the album is doing so poorly in Europe first week charts in from some countries and it hasn't charted. However 4 years away and down to 3 i'm not surprised.
If the European tour is in Sep/Oct next year don't think it would help sales and chart position of the album that far away. Good though that they are going to Europe for the fans there.

The fact is the album is slipping in the UK also and I've seen bad reviews from critics who mention the tax thing. Yes they have a #1 single and possibly though not yet guaranteed a #1 album in the UK but the damage has definitely been done. It seems they have lost their casual fans after the first day big sales only 10,000 were sold the next day don't know the other days.

I like the album but think they really need to think about single choices and which would really capture the general public.

Posted by: jay727 5th December 2014, 01:19 PM

Debuting at #10 in Ireland is quite poor for their standards as well which is a shame

Posted by: pippa 5th December 2014, 02:06 PM

I too am disappointed with the UK sales, i had expected much more. That said, the sales they will achieve this week would be seen as brilliant by anyone else its just when we look at previous sales by Take That the current sales are disappointing. Alot has happened since they last released, big gap in releases, 2 members down, lower album sales climate and the tax evasion story, but when all is considered they are still doing very well.

I will be even more intrigued to see how the album will sell in the next 3 weeks, i hope it can sell reasonably well and built up sales. Singles are now important that they get it right, in the past, outside lead singles the campaigns and strategies have been a complete mess, this time is crucial that is addressed.

The number 10 debut in Ireland is disappointing, i had hoped for a single digit opening, BUT hopefully it will climb if they do promotion there.

Posted by: jay727 5th December 2014, 06:07 PM

You're right Pippa, they have come back after 4 years with a #1 single and album which is fantastic. Maybe the album will pick up over the weekend

Posted by: SLF 6th December 2014, 07:27 AM

Sales figures are disappointing compared to other albums they've done, but probably higher than some people were expecting. They've been quite busy promoting lately so that will help hopefully.

They'll be live on Heart radio at 8am to 10am today and are on Strictly Come Dancing (to be aired this weekend). They'll be on the http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/eb2nc8, and their http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5cPP4CS67xwR1rklLDmX4tj/take-that will be aired 18th December online, on radio 2, and on the Red Button. That's only the things I'm aware of.

*Edit If you missed the Heart interview this morning, it's available http://www.heart.co.uk/on-air/take-that-live-exclusive-interview-heart-radio/. They'll be back on Heart for Emma Bunton's show tonight (5pm to 7pm). Hopefully that'll go on the website too.

*Edit I originally said they'd be on Strictly Come Dancing on the weekend, but the article I'd read that on was wrong. Maybe they're on another week instead.

Posted by: nirvanamusic 6th December 2014, 07:38 PM

We know the album debuted at #10 in Ireland and it's also gone in at #64 in the Netherlands where their album chartings look like this:

Netherlands

Greatest Hits: 1 (3 weeks) 1996 25 weeks PL
Nobody Else: 1 (1 week) 1995 20 weeks G
Everything Changes: 3 1993 52 weeks PL
Progress: 4 2010 27 weeks PL
Take That & Party: 21 1994 (year charted) 11 weeks
Beautiful World: 33 2006 18 weeks
III: 64 2014
The Circus: 68 2008 2 weeks

What this shows is that in Holland they clearly prefer Take That as a 5 with Robbie.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 6th December 2014, 10:14 PM

I have mentioned it already that Europe had not even bought the very good Circus. They are not in boybands in general and not in TT without Robbie. III od not such a good album either. I agree with the German reviews. I am wondering though about the UK. I thought they would sell more

Posted by: Aphrodite 6th December 2014, 11:34 PM

I think its starting to become clear this album wont meet the success of the previous albums, but those albums reached exceptional sales,for any artist to sell 2 million copies of any album is brilliant. Take That done it four times from the ultimate collection to progress. I think we knew those sales would not always last especialy as album sales are declining in general. Its hard to call now what total sales for the album will be, i think how it sells until the end of the year will be a big indicator. At worst i think it will overall manage double platinum and while that is down hugely on previous albums there is not many groups/artists 25 years into their career having number 1 selling singles, number 1 albums and reaching double platinum, strong dvd sales and exceptional concert sales.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 7th December 2014, 06:36 AM

They will always be a classy life band, maybe the best, It is not about the 25 years either Has anyone listened o Rob's 'Under the radar'? This is the hell of an album and it only consists of sides. Progress was fantastic, the Circus, too. But this album sounds cheap, more like 1D than three great songwriters.
If it would not be TT and the massive promotion it would have not go anywhere.
The 2016 album will be a success again, because of the 25 years and Gary will sell solo, as Thatters are faithful. But the casual buyer has to be convinced again

Posted by: jay727 7th December 2014, 12:47 PM

I actually really like III. Definitely better than Progress imo
Robbie's album sounds exactly how you would expect - nice but filler, none of these songs made any of his albums for a good reason

N.B - they were amazing last night at the Jingle Bell Ball. Everyone I overheard were raving about them, some saying how they became fans after that set

Posted by: stevyy 7th December 2014, 02:48 PM

love robbie's new album tbh. Under The Radar is great. III is outstanding though. I'm so happy with the sound and direction of the album. Only that Gary sings 75% of all the tracks irks me a little, because i'm #teamHoward.

Mark's songs are all amazing, especially Do It All For Love. Such a smash. I just downloaded the 2 additional tracks from the deluxe (Fall down at your feet and if it's not love) they are good too. III is a great album and I hope it goes at least triple platinum in the UK. If they sell as much as Ed Sheeran did up till now then they've totally smashed again. Nobody sells like TT.

The new tour in 2015 should be smashing hard as well. TT have long become the biggest live act ever.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 7th December 2014, 03:15 PM

How many album did Ed sell? Plus he also sells big time everywhere else. There must be a reason that TT3/4 don't sell in Europe

Posted by: jay727 7th December 2014, 07:34 PM

Take That go straight in at #1 in the UK with nearly 145,000 copies sold this week. That's still mightly impressive considering the 4 year gap between records, the much lower sales climate than in 2010 and a lack of TV special which they had for the last two records (TT come to town and LBDS). They have also outsold 1D which although isn't that surprising...it's still a great stat

- not to mention they have their first number 1 single in 6 years! So I would definitely consider this era a success so far!

Posted by: Aphrodite 8th December 2014, 12:02 AM

Great that they have achieved their 7th number 1 album although i woul argue 8 as progressed also went number 1 on its own merit,but the chart books probably wont count that. The sales for 3 are not as good as i had hoped before the release but it has done well and achieving both a number 1 single and album is a great start to the era.

Posted by: pippa 8th December 2014, 11:33 AM

At this stage i am hoping the album will sell good this week and the remainder of the Christmas period. The Strictly Come Dancing performance should boost sales. I had hoped they would also be on the X Factor final but that is not happening now, thankfully Olly Murs is as id like him to do well too.

Posted by: jay727 8th December 2014, 11:42 AM

Yeah I had hoped for an XF performance but it's clear that Simon doesn't like Gary. Funny that he blamed Gary for the low ratings on XF when they are even lower this year despite him sitting on the panel

Posted by: slowdown73 8th December 2014, 01:46 PM

How much do people think III will sell in its second week? I'm predicting maybe 80-90k and a top3 position. I don't think it will hold onto the no1 album slot.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 8th December 2014, 02:36 PM

Aren't the usual albums these days not only trigger for the tours? If they sold 150,000 week one and will continue with 80.000 slowly decreasing, they might sell 500,000 in the UK and maybe 60,000 in the rest of Europe. But the tour in the UK sold very well. So the album is not that important, but to see the act. I am wondering if they will really tour Europe next year.

Posted by: jay727 8th December 2014, 07:22 PM

They are touring Europe in September and October 2015. They just havent released the precise dates and venues yet.

Great to see These Days selling another 45,000 copies last week taking them over the 100,000 mark. Xmas will hopefully boost the album to hopefully over 100,000 each week now up to the end of December

Posted by: elisabeth1973 8th December 2014, 08:27 PM

where do they have released European dates? They have not left any impression last week in Holland

Posted by: nirvanamusic 8th December 2014, 08:59 PM

Germany the single has moved up to #72 and the album has debuted at #26 where their album chartings look like this:

Germany

Greatest Hits: 1 (6 weeks) 1996 28 weeks PL
Progress: 1 (1 week) 2010 43 weeks PL
Nobody Else: 1 (1 week) 1995 28 weeks G
Beautiful World: 2 2006 35 weeks PL
Everything Changes: 4 1993 53 weeks PL
The Circus: 14 2008 13 weeks
III: 26 2014
Take That and Party: 28 1992 26 weeks
Never Forget: The Ultimate Collection: 91 2005 3 weeks

Posted by: Swagger91 8th December 2014, 09:58 PM

I've been trying to get into this album for the past week as I love TT, but in all honesty it's just bland and lacks any potential classics :-(

Posted by: jay727 8th December 2014, 11:07 PM

Not too bad album wise seeing as they haven't done any promotion over there yet. Gary did a couple of performances of SISYL and it went top 10 so hopefully this will be the same

Posted by: slowdown73 9th December 2014, 02:23 PM

Take That are no3 in albums and no4 in singles in first set of midweeks. Their album is well behind Ed Sheeran and Sam Smith so unlikely to catch up.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 9th December 2014, 02:37 PM

Not too bad? Sorry, For a band like TT it is a disaster in a market like Germany which is known to stay faithful with established acts. Germany had always the second most crazy Thatters behind the UK. The Netherlands, Denmark and Italy should have been clear charts success. Progress (with Robbie) showed what is possible when he sings with them and the album has quality. But you can also see a 26 spot through pink glasses. The promo argument does not count. I am from the Netherlands and as a TT and Robbie fan have seen all their performances/interviews online as if I would live in the UK. And who else than fans watch this? This is valid for everyone from TT to U2 to Coldplay. There were articles in German media and also spots in TV. How do they chart in Holland where they did promo?

Posted by: pippa 9th December 2014, 03:58 PM

I am relatively happy with both mid week positions, i knew Ed Sheeran would return to number 1, i am more concerned with sales. Almost 20,000 in the first update, i am hoping that is enough to equate to 100,000 minimum for this week.

Posted by: jay727 9th December 2014, 04:23 PM

It's certainly not the disaster you're making it out to be. They'll make top 10 in Germany when they promo it.

Completely agree with Pippa, they have the #1 album, now it's all about sales. Hopefully over 100,000 a week now up to Xmas

Posted by: dylandog 9th December 2014, 07:43 PM

Hi, first time poster but I've enjoyed reading people's opinions for some time. I had a gut feeling that this period would be difficult for the band and so it's turned out. Whilst it's been an achievement to reach No 1 in the chart the bottom line is sales figures, and I have to agree with Elisabeth - it's been a really poor campaign. Progress , BW and Circus sold in incredible numbers in their first 4 weeks -lll doesn't look like it's going to get close. I think the record company and the lads will be very disappointed with the sales figures and I don't think they expected them to be so poor (by TT standards). Unless sales pick up quickly they will be lucky to reach 500,000 -6000,000 which constitutes a massive drop. What makes it even stranger is the huge ticket sales for the tour, yet to date people haven't bought the album in great numbers.

One has to ask why? Jason departure was obviously a blow and the length of time between albums is probably a contributory factor. However I do think the tax issue has influenced the public's view of TT and as much as I love the band I think they underestimated the importance of their reputations and relied too heavily on their faithful fan base to see them through . The press has used every opportunity to raise the tax issue and the reviews for lll have largely been awful. TT should have swallowed their pride much earlier and apologized which would have diluted some of the criticism at least. I also think the musical direction they've chosen has been a factor. Many people bought Progress but disliked the musical direction it took, as did I. lll is more of a fusion of BW, Circus and Progress and I actually love it, but for many casual music buyers it's too far removed from the BW album. I think it's a shame as in my view it's their best work since BW and the songs will sound fantastic live. TT tours will always sell well because they are a renowned live act, however there is no disputing the fact that TT are seeing a considerable decline in their album sales which may represent a permanent and unexpected decline in their popularity.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 10th December 2014, 05:03 AM

Thanks dylandog. You make the point clear. It is nice to be a TT fan and see anything through tinted glasses, but sometimes the reality is different. I guess that the discrepancy between sales figures and ticket demand is due to the fact that TT is known as huge live band and fans are hungry after 4 years and know they will hear all the old hits, too. The new album has not made an impact yet.
A lot of TT fans did not mind the absence of Robbie, both acts have proved to be great with and without each other. But they mind the departure of Jason.
As of sales figures. 500,000 if they are lucky is poor.
I don't agree with the promo thing either, Jay. They did promo in Holland (radio, TV) and it brought hem nowhere despite we are a TT country.
Gary did promo in Germany, charted shortly, but was forgotten equally fast.
He promised to tour Australia and Germany solo...he didn't, ask why.
TT promised European tour dates and have not delivered them...yet. They will have a thought if they will tour Europe based on an album which does not sell or with the hope that the tickets are bought because of their live status.
This can be so, but it is not necessarily like that. They toured BW in Europe and the venues were half empty in parts.
with potentially 500,000 albums sold in Britain (which I doubt) and 80,000 max in Europe, you can call the album a for TT, despite all the hype created. The thatters are always faithful, the causal album buyer has moved on.
This is not only valid for TT but will be similar for the next real Robbie album. He, too, has to grab the casual buyer. His advantage though is that he sells all over Europe and in Australia, a fact TT3/TT4 has to proof

Posted by: nirvanamusic 10th December 2014, 09:52 AM

Switzerland in at #59 and album chartings:

Switzerland

Nobody Else: 1 (4 weeks) 1995 22 weeks G
Progress: 2 2010 20 weeks G
Greatest Hits: 2 1996 17 weeks PL
Beautiful World: 6 2006 23 weeks G
Everything Changes: 9 1993 39 weeks PL
The Circus: 22 2008 13 weeks
III: 59 2014
Never Forget - The Ultimate Collection: 73 2005 1 week

Spain in at #54 and album chartings:

Spain

Greatest Hits: 1 (3 weeks) 1996 24 weeks PL
Nobody Else: 2 1995 22 weeks G
Beautiful World: 16 2006 14 weeks
Progress: 17 2010 15 weeks
The Circus: 27 2008 7 weeks
III: 54 2014

Posted by: slowdown73 10th December 2014, 05:16 PM

III is no5 in midweeks today and could be no6 by sunday as George Ezra is apparently selling faster and catching up quick. The boys need to do some promotion to help the album over the Christmas period.

Posted by: Aphrodite 11th December 2014, 12:46 AM

Promo is definitely needed, is it this week they are on strictly??hey need to push promotion to maximise sales especially in the actual Christmas week. These Days is selling decently this week, 20k so far so they will manage at least another 50k by the end of the week. Its a huge shame they are not on the bill for the x factor final.

Posted by: jay727 11th December 2014, 07:58 AM

It seems Take That have now been added to the X Factor final Bill - looks like they'll be dueting with all 3 finalists singing Rule The World

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/take-thats-x-factor-final-4786615

They are SCD on the 20th

Posted by: elisabeth1973 11th December 2014, 08:03 AM

they are on the bill now doing Rule the world with the contestants. Disappointing sales and chart position. They are doing the Voice in Germany this week. It will be interesting to see if that will help sales

Posted by: pippa 11th December 2014, 09:24 AM

X Factor final is promotion in itself and its getting the name out there, i hope it can boost sales, and it will add more sales to the already impressive Rule The World. With strictly the week after that should have an effect too.

Posted by: nirvanamusic 11th December 2014, 12:51 PM

In at #39 in Italy where their album chartings look like this:

Italy

Nobody Else: 1 (3 weeks) 1995 22 weeks 4x Platinum
Greatest Hits: 1 (1 week) 1996 14 weeks (no cert known)
Progress: 3 2010 33 weeks PL
Everything Changes: 13 1993 11 weeks PL
Beautiful World: 25 2006 28 weeks G
The Circus: 32 2008 8 weeks
III: 39 2014

Yes it would be nice if all the III peaks move up and hopefully they will but at least the album is charting in countries. If you compare them to Boyzone who granted weren't as big as TT in Europe but still a big boyband of the time Take That are consistently charting in foreign fields with or without Robbie and now also Jason. The second single is coming in January I think and hopefully the film will do well overseas also to boost exposure to the track.

Posted by: jay727 11th December 2014, 01:11 PM

Yes absolutely, they are still charting in Europe which is great. Once they've done some promo out there and announce tour dates soon then hopefully that will drive a higher charting

Posted by: pippa 11th December 2014, 02:14 PM

I never really take interest or follow how they perform in Europe, i solely watch the UK performance and have a look in at the performance in Ireland as i often find those territories inter-linked.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 11th December 2014, 09:03 PM

isn't it a bit of a tunnel vision to only loo at the UK :-)? I wonder if this is a fans only thread. Place 39 means they sell 4,000 copies and as I said promo didn't help them in Europe, where they do chart.... with a good album and Robbie in the fold

Posted by: gooddelta 11th December 2014, 09:39 PM

The more I hear These Days, the more it sounds like yet another 'classic' to add to the canon.

The album is definitely not a TT classic though, although I do like it a lot.

Posted by: jay727 11th December 2014, 09:57 PM

Absolutely, it's a great great song.

Really enjoying the album, wish it would kick on in the charts though

Posted by: dylandog 11th December 2014, 10:26 PM

Always think that TT's promotion is never quite right. They've sung These Days on the X Factor, Grahame Norton and I think they sing it on the up coming Strictly show. In my view they've really they missed an opportunity to show case other songs from the album and performing These Days once again isn't likely to kick start album sales. I am truly baffled by some of the choices they make. They never seem to have enough faith in their new material and always fall back on their back catalogue. They should have taken a gamble and gone for a new song off the album because at this point I don't think they have anything to lose. Love lll and it's a shame it hasn't been embraced by the public.

Posted by: Kath 11th December 2014, 10:51 PM

I don't think TT are bothered by the poor (by their standards) album sales or chart positioning. Its all about tours and all the money-making things that go with tours these days (all acts) and Take That have no fears on that front. Having said that - this will be the first tour they've done that I have absolutely zilch interest in! There isn't even a Robbie to pique my interest - as Progress had.

I quite like the single (not enough to waste money on it) but I've no curiosity in listening to anything else on the album. The tax arrangements of the three of them just leave me disgusted. It isn't just TT either. My son has totally gone off the Arctic Monkeys for the same reason.

Posted by: pippa 12th December 2014, 09:56 AM

I agree the promotion is never quiet right, especially with singles which is frustrating. That said, i do agree with Kath that singles probably are not important to them but i do feel album sales are important as is achieving a number 1 album, achieving 8 number 1 albums is a great achievement and i would assume they are targeting to increase that figure to 10. The tours however are hugely important to them, they put so much in to their tours and there is massive revenue from it.

What i am finding strange with the new album is the lead single is doing very well as have all their lead singles but the album isnt hugely benefiting of the back of it, sales are down hugely on previous albums but there is a lot of promotion to come for this album and Take That have managed to sell albums outside the Christmas market and therefore have a chance to build up sales.

This weeks sales included the album will be over 200,000 and if things go in the right direction it will be coming near platinum for Christmas week. Worst outcome i would hate it to sell anything under double platinum. I am starting to wonder will Garys Since I Saw You Last actually end up with higher sales for three??

Posted by: milly 12th December 2014, 10:42 AM

I would lie if I said I wasn't disappointed with the sales; I wish they were better at this point. But I think it's useless to compare the sales of III to those of Progress or of Circus. For Progress, we had 2 fanbases combined - let's be fair, Robbie himself doesn't sell 145k in a week all on his own, never mind 500k. Plus, we had Look Back Don't Stare, which was more promo than all the tv appearances combined. The Circus happened in 2008, that's 6 years ago, the sales climate has changed a lot and people prefer streaming nowadays - an option limited for the moment for TT because of their contract with Google Play.
The main problem for me is the promotion or lack of it, to be more precise. Radio interviews don't help too much; not even their loyal fans know about them. Their 2 main appearances have been on X factor and Graham Norton show. A casual appearance in Netherlands is hardly promotion, in my opinion. Last year, Gary was everywhere: CIN, Royal Variety, Text Santa, Allan Carr, Jonathan Ross, One Show, Late Late Show, the BBC Radio 2 Day, the Big Ben Bash, the Meerkats, the Afghanistan documentary, the James Corden documentary, there were huge banners all across London promoting SISYL. When you compare that promotion or the one of Ed Sheeran, Olly Murs to Take That's this year, you'll notice that the discrepancy is obvious. Maybe the boys want to lay low for a while and don't want to push the promo too much, but, unfortunately, this has consequences on the album sales.
As for them not charting too high in other countries, I'm not too concerned about it. Like someone said, all I care about are the UK chartings. The day someone will pay attention to my country's chart, the apocalypse is near I, myself, have bought the album from Amazon, but I've not downloaded it from iTunes Romania because I don't see the point. If I could download from iTunes UK, I'd do it. On the contrary, I'd pay in a hearbeat the price of a ticket for a TT gig in my country, as would many other people. With the right sort of promotion, III could do well in Germany, the 2nd important music market in Europe.
I agree that they should start promoting other songs from the album as well. They did the acoustic version of Flaws, but how many people heard it? It's a shame really, because, for me, III is the best TT album ever, followed closely by Beautiful World. If people gave it a chance, they would not be disappointed.

Posted by: pippa 12th December 2014, 12:07 PM

Very well said.

Posted by: dylandog 12th December 2014, 01:10 PM

Milly, I agree. Despite the poor reviews I absolutely love lll and for me it's considerably better than Progress and in my view better than Circus. I'm interested to see what songs they've included for the Radio 2 show, my guess is the older songs still take precedence. It would have been really helpful to have had another 'An Audience With' type of show which would have given them scope to include other songs from the album. I saw their performance at the BBC Music Awards and as ever it was strong but I wish they'd stop dancing and wearing those awful suits as it really dates them. In comparison their performance on Graham Norton was far more natural and organic and all the better for it.

Posted by: pippa 12th December 2014, 01:16 PM

I loved the X Factor performance the most as i thought it was staged extremely well. I have to agree with you guys that 3 is better than progress and its a slow burner album, these days was not instant, it grew and i am finding the songs on the album the same. Credit to the boys, the 4 studio albums since their return are all very different, they are not churning out the same ole same ole on each single or album.

Wonderful to see so many new people joining in on the debates and opinions here.

Posted by: Bond Bug 12th December 2014, 02:46 PM

The tax issue has put a lot of people off, such as Kath. I believe that they handled this extremely badly and are now paying the price, as I said they would in the thread about the tax evasion. They are getting what they deserve. It did not have to be this way if they dealt with the issue promptly and fully. Instead, Gary Barlow patronized many fans by saying they don't care.

Another factor is to do with Gary Barlow. With all the promotion and TV specials for his album and also Sing, he has become too much of an establishment figure. Being a Tory boy and a Royal sycophant puts him back into a kind of Cliff Richard category of uncool. Take That are no longer cool again. Again, it is embarrassing for a lot of former fans to admit they like Take That, and most people know that Take That is now Gary Barlow and two backing singers.

If the lead singer on the first single had been Mark Owen or Howard, I think it could have been different. They should have made a shift to show that all three were equal and had the same amount to contribute, but Gary Barlow's ego seems to have got in the way. I say this, by the way, as a huge Barlow fan. So, it is not surprising that total sales will be in a similar range to Gary Barlow's album. While their single did scrape into number one in the UK, it isn't anywhere near the same quality as some of their other lead singles. That said, I expect their second single to do reasonably well off the back of Kingsmen: The Secret Service. Overall, the material in this album is weak compared to their past efforts. I don't think they put their hearts into it, and I expect this may be their last studio album, or at least the last album for a long time.

I will add that I don't buy the whole argument about album sales being low anyway. This album is falling down the charts quicker than their other other albums. They have a core support, but have lost a lot of their wider appeal. The only way they could have overcome that and all the negative was to have a killer single. It just did not happen.

Posted by: milly 12th December 2014, 02:54 PM

I loved their Graham Norton performance, especially because of the slightly more uptempo arrangement of the song. You're right that it looked more natural. But to be honest, I melted completely when I saw Gary dressed in white last night He was cuteness overload. And the dancing amuses me constantly. It was miles better than all the other acts who seemed glued to the spot. Even if I knew that the boys were taking the mickey with those moves, I still liked it.

As for the reviews, don't get me started on the papers. The day they'll write something good about anything Gary is connected to, the hell will freeze over Besides, they were pissed that the boys didn't send the album for reviewing before the release date. Neil McCormick at The Telegraph seems to be the journalist on duty when it comes to writing reviews about Gary or TT. And he never misses an opportunity of asserting his undying love for Robbie, in contrast to his loathing for Gary.

Posted by: Kath 12th December 2014, 04:00 PM

I'd started to go off Take That long before the tax issue though Bond Bug. In fact - long before the Tory-toadying. It was the fact that Gary Barlow became omni-present - and you couldn't escape him. Also - despite the protestations of them all writing - I always get the impression that Gary still KNOWS or believes that people believe that it is HIM doing all the writing - and he's doing the others a favour by gracing them with his 'talents'. There is even another thread here that says Barlow has written the Kingsman thing - no mention of the others at all! It was the Kilimanjaro thing that probably was the turning point for me - you knew his charity work was all just a show for his own ends (I bloody well gave £20 to that one too!!! - silly me! ) From that day on I've vowed never to give money to a celebrity headed charity thing - instead give it directly to the people on the street.

Take That will always be successful due to their solid fan-base who will follow them (and now Barlow's new-found solo success adds more to it) and buy what they put out no matter. Barlow was right too when he said that their fans don't care about the tax thing - they can't even see a veiled insult when it hits them in the face.

Posted by: Bond Bug 12th December 2014, 05:36 PM

Yes, I agree Gary Barlow is still being greedy about his role in the band and he has been overexposed in an uncool way. However, I will always follow his career, hoping he creates some more great songs like Rule The World or Forever Love. That said, I think they will see diminishing returns from here, unless they somehow reinvent themselves. Gary Barlow will not sell as much on his next solo album. Ditto if Take That continue. They may not get to number one.

I see the future like this - The next album will be a greatest hits album (I wouldn't rule out Robbie joining them on a new greatest hit promotional song, as it takes minimal commitment) and after that they will disband without officially saying so - they will say they are taking a break. Gary Barlow and Robbie Williams will see falling sales and popularity in their next releases. Gary Barlow will do a Ronan Keating and release a 30 years of hits solo album, using a lot of Take That material, plus solo material. However, as they become increasingly less relevant, at some point, maybe in a decade from now, they will come together for another Take That reunion.

Posted by: milly 12th December 2014, 06:23 PM

There is absolutely no evidence of Gary being greedy or of him taking pride in people considering him the main writer for the band. But then again, as a fan, I'm so stupid I wouldn't see a veiled insult if it hit me in the face.

Posted by: nirvanamusic 12th December 2014, 07:01 PM

In Belgian charts again low chartings and probably minimal sales. Here are the Flanders and Wallonia region album chartings. No certs known

Belgium Flanders:

Nobody Else: 1 (2 weeks) 1995 19 weeks
Greatest Hits: 2 1996 23 weeks
Take That & Party: 6 1992
Everything Changes: 6 1993
Progress: 36 2010 8 weeks
Beautiful World: 62 2006 6 weeks
Never Forget: The Ultimate Collection: 76 2005 5 weeks
III: 84 2014
The Circus: 94 2008 1 week

Belgium Wallonia

Nobody Else: 2 1995 21 weeks
Greatest Hits: 4 1996 12 weeks
Everything Changes: 7 1993
Progress: 32 2010 10 weeks
III: 128 2014

Posted by: elisabeth1973 13th December 2014, 08:42 AM

Obviously I agree with all what Kath and Bong Bug wrote. In non Uk countries TT had been not noticed aside of Patience after their return and when Progress charted well and you read the tour reviews it was Robbie with his backing singers.
Gary Barlow did not leave an impression as solo artist with his last work either while Robbie sold 550,000 of his last record only in Germany and he did sell even more than 145,000 a week with RKRVS, and SBWays.
Now TT is Gary and Mark and Howard are his dancers. He is clearly the focus and he loves it, even n the pictures. For me Gary was and is the downfall of TT. He is obviously very talented. But he is also very arrogant and up himself in a totally different way than Robbie.
And while Robbie fans are moaning about every single it the hard core THatters and GB army may be absolute intelligent in real life but lemmings when it comes to their idols in a way maybe 1D fans are and they are youngsters.
Robbie is trying out a lot of new ventures and so I guess that he will always hold a certain significance.
Gary will decline because his next album doesn't have the x-factor judge prominence anymore. But he is writing musicals and will be successful there. It fits him. TT will take a break afer a Greatest Hits and a new tour to cash in.
That is what I am thinking.
It was by the way poor that more than half of Gary's tour sogs were TT songs.

Posted by: milly 13th December 2014, 09:26 AM

Actually, in order for a song to be a TT song, it would have to be credited to all members. Only a few songs on Gary's tour are truly TT songs, the rest of them were 100% Gary Barlow songs.And if Robbie can cash in touring with swing covers, I'm sure Gary can sing the songs he's written, just like Mark has, but I don't see anyone making a fuss about that.
Germany does seem to have a strange passion for Robbie, but I can assure you that many of the other European countries do not even consider him a member of TT. Gary was and always will be for everyone the leader of the band. What the papers print and what people think are two different things.
You keep saying Gary is arrogant and full of himself, yet, aside from your own impressions, there's absolutely no evidence to suggest this. On the contrary, there are so many people saying how thoughtful he is. Tulisa has said, during a recent interview, how Gary sent her a lovely email after seeing her documentary, Marcus has said a few days ago that Gary was the one stepping in for him during XF when he was ill and convincing the producers to give him a day off, Louis has publicly thanked him for the support during his trial and for testifying on his behalf and so on. These are little details that count and speak about a person's character. I don't want to put anyone down, because I'm a TT fan, but, if we were to be honest, there's a lot more evidence in the other members' private lives to suggest that they're not as sweet as people make them out to be than in Gary's. But, for some reason, no matter what he does or doesn't do, he's always the easy target in the band.
I, for one, have enjoyed his last solo album and for me it's the best out of all his albums, solo or with Take That. Let Me Go alone has left more of an impression on people than Robbie's last albums that failed to produce any hit. Robbie's last single barely made the top 10 and was quickly out of top 100. Gary's dvd is even now selling very well, months after his tour ended and a year after he quit XF. Even Since I Saw You Last is still in top 400 on Amazon, which may not be much, but it's enough to suggest that he's not a season artist like Robbie, who only sold during Christmas period and Mother's Day.
We don't know what the future holds for the band or its members, all that counts is the present and, at the moment, Gary has a loyal fanbase thanks to his music and personality.

Posted by: dylandog 13th December 2014, 11:07 AM

Look, I'm certainly not blind to Gary's faults but to call him arrogant is grossly unfair. There is no evidence to suggest any such thing. On stage he doesn't attempt to hog the stage, he has never stated how great he is and to my knowledge he hasn't boasted that he's written all of the songs since their return. We're not privy to decisions about who should be lead singer on the singles or album tracks so we can't say that Gary demands first billing. Whilst Mark and Howard have their own fan base, love Howard myself, if you asked the general public I have no doubt an overwhelming majority would state that Gary has the best voice. In which case why would they sideline their strongest singer, it makes no sense. I think the balance is right on the album, perhaps Howard should have had one more song but generally it works well.

The more I think about it the more I believe that the tax avoidance is a defining issue . Gary displayed some degree of arrogance in assuming their fan base was so strong that it wouldn't impact on sales - which has proved to be anything but. I don't think that TT have actually produced a world class song since Rule the World - they've produced good quality work but nothing outstanding. What they desperately need is another Patience or RTW to appeal more to the general public in the UK.

Posted by: milly 13th December 2014, 11:39 AM

That was an invention of The Sun, just like many of the other stories published about him. I'm almost positive Gary never said such thing. I can't even see him talking about the issue, never mind saying such a thing. I tend to believe more those articles saying he had a depression after the whole scandal, which is why he left twitter for so many months. It was only thanks to Elton again that he recovered. He knows that the tax scandal has influenced some of the fans.
In rest, I agree with you

Posted by: Bond Bug 13th December 2014, 06:08 PM

If you don't count singing most the songs, then he doesn't hog the stage. But it is really the Gary Barlow show.

I remember him saying he wrote Babe especially for Mark and took into account Mark's limited vocal range. That was very disingenuous. And let's not forget why Robbie Williams left - because he was an extremely talented and ambitious performer who was being held back by Gary Barlow hogging the lead vocals.

Posted by: dylandog 13th December 2014, 07:31 PM

The point I'm trying to make (perhaps not very clearly) is that if Gary is considered the strongest singer ( which many people do) then naturally he would take the lead vocal in more songs. It doesn't mean he's hogging the limelight or that it's the Gary Barlow show. It's based on who is the most vocally talented and most suited to the song. Mark is an interesting character. He's a talented song writer and performer but I personally find his voice difficult to listen to unless it's the right song. His vocals for Shine are spot on and better than Gary's but I still maintain that Mark is vocally limited and needs the right kind of song otherwise his voice can sound quite harsh. Equally, Howards vocals on Never Forget are great and Gary' rendition of the song is nowhere as strong. We have no evidence that this time around Gary insists on taking lead vocal - it could simply be that the strongest singer has the greater input. If you remember Progress was more Mark and Robbie influenced and Gary took far more of a back seat - this doesn't suggest someone hell bent on controlling all aspects of the group. As for Robbie, I firmly believe he would have left Take That even if he'd been given equal footing vocally - he isn't, and never has been a team player, and if anyone hogs the limelight then it's undoubtedly Robbie.

Posted by: nirvanamusic 13th December 2014, 08:17 PM

Gary might have been a bit patronising but at least he allowed all of them bar Jason who the old manager probably didn't want singing a lead a #1 UK single each. Did Boyzone, N Sync, Backstreet Boys, Westlife, East 17 etc write and then give each member a moment in the spotlight other than the usual two in a band trading verses single after single? I agree it's obvious that Robbie would have gone solo he mentioned as much from very early interviews as jest which turned to seriousness. His story from Take That propelled him and gave him the fire and drive, even hate for Gary/Nigel to go on to bigger things.

I agree Mark/Howard were suited to their #1 singles and Robbie to Could it be magic and Everything Changes. Mark suits The Day after Tomorrow also from Nobody Else. When Mark over reaches vocally I agree it is awful though I like Do It All For Love and think that song particular suits him. Gary is definitely seen as the lead singer and I know older fans who only like the Gary led tracks. On the documentary Gary had no songs on Progress this was realised and he took vocals for Eight Letters, the Robbie heaviness of Progress I believe was Gary rectifying the mistakes of the 90's but Gary wrote Take That hits. Robbie wanted hip hop and grunge/Britpop tracks for Take That and Nobody else has him rap a little to accommodate this but as a whole TT sound it would never have worked. The lyrics Robbie showed Gary at the time were more in line with Nirvana Gary said.

After tonight and X Factor I think Rule the World could overtake Back For Good and become their biggest seller in the UK another milestone for the comeback era.

Posted by: milly 14th December 2014, 11:28 AM

Gary wasn't being patronizing at all. At the time, he wasn't used to writing for anyone else. He was used to writing songs for himself and his vocal range. He was merely speaking the truth. Mark had a very limited vocal range - he doesn't even reach 2 octaves-, he hadn't yet had vocal coaching or any kind of music lessons, so it was indeed a challenge for Gary to write a song that suited him and still sounded good.
Besides, I don't understand why people keep bringing the past into discussion every single time. Gary was just as young as the others; he had his own ambitions and he shouldn't be blamed for that. A lot of things have happened since then that put life into perspective for him.
As for him hogging the limelight, as people have pointed out, if he really wanted to do that, he wouldn't have taken a back seat on Progress, despite him being the main responsible for most of the songs on the album. Gary is the best singer in the band by a mile - he is a good singer on his own, period - and he's the one with the largest fanbase. It's enough to follow the solo careers of the TT member to realize whom people want to listen to. It would be very disrespectful to ignore the preferences of the fans. III has got the right balance - there's something in there for each fanbase.

Posted by: Bond Bug 14th December 2014, 07:54 PM

I can understand that the most talented one has more prominence, but we are down to three. That changes things. The title if the new album is III. They chose III rather than 3 deliberately. The point is that there are now three and the three of them form the shape of III on the cover. As III, it shouldn't be a matter of who is a stronger, but of finding a way in which they all shine. That is the issue I have with this album, especially following on from Gary Barlow's solo album. It is a question of marketing-how they are perceived. If they are perceived as Gary Barlow and two backing singers, then it is really a follow-up to his solo album using the Take That brand. I don't think that is a good way to go forward, especially when they have had negative publicity over the tax issue. To some extent, they needed to reinvent themselves and make a strong statement to come back. The relative lack of success of this album is nothing to do with falling album sales, it is to do with a falling perception of the group. They needed to come back stronger and be cool again. It didn't happen. They got their number one album and single in the UK, but I would not expect the album to be outside the top 5 by the next week. They have lot a lot of their broad appeal. Who do I blame? Gary Barlow.

Posted by: jay727 14th December 2014, 08:09 PM

Jees - when did this become a Gary Barlow witch hunt?

It may not be performing as well as their last 3 albums but to say it's flopping is a bit of an exaggeration - no.1 album, 3rd highest selling album of the year (over 200k sold in 2 weeks) and a number 1 single from it. Doesn't sound like a flop to me! And to blame Gary for it not selling a million in a month, being called III not 3 and not having more Howard leads is laughable

Posted by: dylandog 14th December 2014, 09:04 PM

Gary shouldn't shoulder any additional responsibility for the relatively poor showing of the album. They were all involved in the tax issue but with Gary's high profile and charity work he's been the one singled out. I assume all three decide on album song choices and the promotion campaign. I think they've made some late decisions due to the situation with Jason and I now wonder if they would have come back much earlier, but because of Jason's reluctance to commit delayed their return hoping he would have a change of heart. Regardless of the issues since Progress I am genuinely surprised at the extent of the down turn in their sales and wonder where their fan base went? Who would have thought that their lead single would do so well (comparatively) and the album relatively poorly.

I thought they performed really well on X Factor and the quality of Rule the World shone through. I still maintain that if their lead single had been along the lines of Patience or RTW their sales would have been considerably higher. These Days whilst catchy doesn't have the enduring quality associated with a world class song and as a result the casual listener or fan hasn't been inclined to purchase the album. Just look at Sam Smith and Ed Sheeren - their singles were strong enough to draw people in and high album sales followed.

Posted by: Aphrodite 15th December 2014, 02:31 AM

Why is all the blame falling to Gary?if its the tax issue it was all of them not just Gary,mark and Howards private lives are a lot more colorful than Gary's.Yes,their album sales are down but for an act almost 25 years on go rivaling the current huge stars such as one direction and Olly murs to name a few is hardly a disaster,these days may not be a rule the world or patience but its catchy and they tried something new whichh did go number 1 and remains top 4 again this week. Their tour has also sold well let's not forget. The album still has legs and should go platinum by the end of the year and possibly end its campaign double platinum which is not a disaster. Do the bashers believe Ed sheeran and Sam smith will be achieving those levels of succees in 20 years time??I love both acts but like take that and others sales will dwindle.As I have said before the boys can what the hell they like in their private lives as its up to them,my decision for supporting them falls completely on music and I will spend my money on their music and tours as long as I enjoy it which I can honestly say I still am.

Posted by: Bond Bug 15th December 2014, 06:30 AM

I'm not on any witch hunt. I am a huge fan of Gary Barlow. His music is the only reason I am a Take That fan. On the day I heard Forever Love and thought that is exactly the song I would write, I have followed his career very closely. But does that mean that I cannot ever be critical? On the tax issue. yes they do all shoulder responsibility, but Gary Barlow is the most famous and most successful. He is considered the leader of Take That. He is the one the media listens to. The media aren't too bothered about what Howard has to say on the matter and only a little more from Mark Owen, so the words and actions of Gary Barlow are more important. He is the musical genius, and whilst I would never call III a flop, it does not have a single killer song on it that was needed to overcome the negative things that have happened over the past year. Do I blame Howard for that? No, because I expect Gary Barlow to make the magic happen, not Howard. Do I blame Mark Owen? No, because I don't see the Gary Barlow magic in his solo work. So, who am I going to blame? Do I think the over-exposure of Gary Barlow has been good or bad for the band? I think it has been bad. Maybe Gary Barlow has had too may other projects going on. Or maybe there never will be another Back For Good or Rule the World. Yes, the album and single got to number one in the UK, but that may not be good enough for them compared to previous releases to decide to continue as a band. I am not overly excited about that or the material on the album. Am I an expert on song writing and marketing? No, but I still want to formulate an opinion of why things are not doing nearly so well as the last albums. Because I conclude that Gary Barlow is largely responsible, does not mean I am on a witch hunt.

Posted by: milly 15th December 2014, 08:09 AM

So, Gary's fault is being the most famous and talented in the band and having kept himself busy this whole time?
Things are what they are; the papers had been on a witch hunt for a while and they found a way of destroying Gary's credibility regardless of what he did or didn't do. Gary couldn't have predicted that, no matter what, and there's nothing he can do about it anymore. No paper will bother reporting that Gary paid that tax a long time ago, so the negativity will always follow him. The only thing he can do is continue writing and enjoying music, for as long as he can.
I disagree about III not having strong enough material. As many fans who bought the album have said, III is their best album yet. Higher than Higher, Flaws, Get Ready for It and I Like It could all do very well and could help the album sell well, if promoted properly.
As for the other point being made, as a TT and GB fan, I wouldn't have liked an album where all 3 members shared lead vocals equally. I respect the need of all of them having leads, because the other 2 boys have their fans as well, but I wouldn't have liked an album where Gary had only 5-6 lead vocals. Most of the TT fans buying the album are in fact GB fans, so I'm sure they feel the same. TT is what it is because of the GB sound. Besides, I don't see how Howard or Mark could have sung any of the songs Gary has lead vocals on; it would have been a mess. Don't forget these songs have to be sung live as well.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 15th December 2014, 09:02 AM

Gary is the dominant person in TT when Robbie is not with them, one reason he jokingly said in a German interview he is happy that Rob did not join again. There is always a core of truth in each joke.
There are those who like III and other's don't. Fact is that the obsession of TT by the general public has decreased and even the Core fans outside the UK have not shown real support. III did not chart or charts badly in Robbie's core countries which is surprising as TT and Rob are at least linked.
One reason for the bad sales and the sales are bad even with decling album sales is the over exposure of Gary through two years. This is normal. Every artist overexposed gets the press on his hook like Robbie in 2006. But it is also his arrogant way to deal with the tax issues and as far as the financial magazines have reported the money is not paid back fully by now (He had two tax issues, not one).
I am wondering if their sales will be steady from now on and how they will do in Germany after the promo.

Posted by: milly 15th December 2014, 09:50 AM

The fact that Gary let Robbie be the main figure on Progress may be one of the reason things are how they are right now. Many TT fans disliked Robbie's implication and much more disliked the album exactly because of this. Progress is still the one TT album from this era I do not own and have no intention of purchasing because I'm simply not interested in listening to Robbie's voice. Progressed is another deal.

Again this word, "arrogant". What did he say or do that was so arrogant? He didn't even speak about the issue, aside from the apology on twitter, God only knows why he had to apologize, though, since it wasn't his fault. I'm no fan of Nigel Martin Smith, but I have no reason to believe he was lying, especially because he was so revolted that the papers weren't reporting the truth. He said that Gary had solved the problem as soon as he had found out about it and I believe him.
I'm more revolted that Gary was made a scapegoat by the papers, while Robbie, Adele, 1D and many of the other celebs who are involved in similar schemes don't even get a mention, because they are the papers' darlings.

Posted by: gooddelta 15th December 2014, 10:14 AM

Surely These Days is the most representative 'trio' single they could have come back with. All three of them sing practically every line of the song together in harmony.

I think there's a good spread of vocals on the album too. Howard isn't utilised much as a lead vocalist but he never really has been so I doubt many people are expecting him to pop up leading half of the tracks.

Posted by: pippa 15th December 2014, 12:35 PM

I agree with you goodelta. Since day one Gary was the main singer with Mark taking lead occasionally, this has worked so why completely change it. I would be leaning towards agreeing with a point Milly made "The fact that Gary let Robbie be the main figure on Progress may be one of the reason things are how they are right now. Many TT fans disliked Robbie's implication and much more disliked the album exactly because of this. Progress is still the one TT album from this era I do not own and have no intention of purchasing because I'm simply not interested in listening to Robbie's voice. Progressed is another deal"

I was a fan who was not excited about Robbie returning as i dont think they needed him to return, that said, the Flood is one of my ultimate Take That songs and i am extremely fond of Love Love. I enjoyed Progress and Progressed but not to the levels of enjoyment i got from Beautiful World and The Circus. I would also say three is a stronger album than Progress but that is just my own feelings of the album.


People are moaning about Gary doing this and not doing that, lets not forget this man will of course grab everything he can as he is probably aware (and rightly so) how fickle his profession is, lets not forget Gary experienced a very different side of the coin and was fed to the lions by the press on a regular basis. For anyone to comeback from that takes something and i would believe Gary is very well aware it could happen again. He is striving on his career while he is on the right side of the coin and why not, he seems a strong family man and wants to secure as much as possible for his kids future and he is grabbing every opportunity along the way. I would believe Mark and Howard are the same, the difference is Gary has the highest profile of the remaining three members.

I see that people are comparing the sales of the new album to the previous and there is a big difference. That said, the album has time to accumulate decent sales, the album is not flopping, if the album charted outside the top 10 i would see the need for worry. If we compare sales of the new album to their very first 3 studio albums this new album is selling just as well. These Days looks likely to stay top 10 this week for yet another week from looking at iTunes and they achieved another number 1 single. The long standing and established acts are not managing to achieve the success Take That are receiving. In life it is always better to try and look at the positives instead of always looking for negatives. If you like the music Take That are delivering cherish it.

Posted by: Bond Bug 15th December 2014, 08:52 PM

Who is to blame if Marks and Sparks sales do not meet expectations? The man at the top.




Are you claiming he has paid any taxes he avoided? If so, do you have a credible source?





Can you complete the following sentence, if the material is so good? This album is falling down the charts faster that other Take That albums because....

Posted by: Kath 15th December 2014, 10:49 PM

I don't think album sales are that important though - they haven't been for a long time. I suppose they're an indication of any new following that an act may have - so I'd say that the poor (by their standards) figures could deduce that just the same old people are buying their stuff and they're not reaching a newer audience (and they very possibly have lost a few fans too). The big money with an act like Take That though - is the concert revenue (not just ticket sales but all the sh/te that goes with it - programs that will probably be about £35 a time for this tour, tee-shirts for around £35, sweatshirts for anything up to £70, useless key-rings and bracelets that fall to bits for around £15). So I don't think Take That are too bothered by the sales of III.

I can't comment on the album's quality as I can't be bothered even listening to it. I must reluctantly admit that I quite like the single 'These Days' (not enough to buy I hasten to add - I won't spend my wages - on which I've paid full tax by lining the pockets of three tax-avoiders).

Posted by: milly 16th December 2014, 08:49 AM

As I've already said, Nigel Martin Smith has said on his fb account that Gary paid everything he was due the moment he found out something was wrong - that is long before the papers started writing rubbish. Of course I can't guarantee anything, but I don't see why he would be lying. He said it on his private account, in a moment of indignation, so I don't see what his agenda would be for lying. I actually asked him why he doesn't make the whole thing public and he said he didn't want to speak to any paper without Gary's consent on the matter.

I don't know why you say the album is falling down the charts so fast. It's even climbed on Amazon since its first week of release and it's sold over 70k this week. The deluxe edition started climbing on Amazon on Friday, when the album was back in store, after 2 weeks of complete absence. Beyonce's album needed I don't know how many weeks to sell 200k , I'd say TT are doing much better than her. They missed top 5 this week by 85 copies, that's all. If they had the same promo Ed Sheeran, 1D and Olly Murs are having, they'd be top 3 for sure. As far as I'm concerned, if they did more shows consistently, they'd sell a lot more. Surprisingly, I've seen quite a few comments from fans this week stating they didn't even know TT had a new single and album out. I'm not saying they'd be having the sales of Progress, but they would have better sales for sure if they did the promotion right.

Posted by: pippa 16th December 2014, 10:19 AM

The album is falling but not at an alarming rate, it just missed the top 5 this week by a very narrow margin. Sales were healthy, sales look set to be healthy this week. The single is performing at a healthy rate. Extra promotion would help and would add sales, that said, sales are hardly a disaster. If Take That manage a decent chart performance with a second single it will hold the album selling relatively firm.

Posted by: IrisAlbastru 16th December 2014, 10:25 AM

Re tax issue: i think all of them or all of high profile celebrities don't make by themselves decisions about their money. They hire somebody who has idea about investments. So, if i was in their position and if the specialsit would say me that he found a place to win money, blah blahblah i would put only two questions: is it ilegal? (as i undertstand was not ilegal, but more imoral, right?) and what risk?. That is. I don't believe that the members of TT really knows the laws for investements (do you?) or that they are skilled to invest with such amount of money by themselves. So, for sure, they have to pay back now if it was a mistake or at the border of legality, but now at the end of the day, we all try to ease ourselves from taxes (or maybe is that only in Germany where the taxes are a science and there are so many loopholes and so many laws which one can use to pay less money that we need a specialist to fill our taxes papers).

I think the tax issue is the only one i don't have a problem either with TT or other celebrities which made a false step. Is not good, the country needs the money, but for me taxes and money are such a strange world, from which i understand nothing at all, that i can understand other people making mistakes or false steps.

Third album of the year after only two weeks is not bad at all!

Posted by: elisabeth1973 16th December 2014, 04:27 PM

The financial magazins which matter more than the word of Nigel have reported that Gary has NOT paid the taxes back yet. 35 million is half of his fortune and you have invested this kind of money usually. These Days is holding far better than the album. But if they sell 300,000 till the end of the year it is very poor sales even in this kind of market, not to mention that they do not sell in the rest of Europe, so hardly anything will add. Still it is not clear if they will indeed tour Europe, despite Gary said it. The tickets for the tour are more important these days, I agree. But compared to their last Robbie-less tour they only sold 450,000 tickets instead of 1.2 million.
And as far as I know the tickets went on sale before the album was out. Plus, fortunately for them their fanbase want to hear Rule the world rather than something knew.
Progress might not be of the TT4 fan taste in general, but it was their best selling and publically, commercially and critically most acclaimed album...because of the influence of a certain RW (otherwise III would have the same effect).
If they will not come up with a huge reunion and/or huge album next they are definitely on their way out on the grand scale. Look at the reviews of Under the Radar (Sunday Times) compared with III

Posted by: milly 16th December 2014, 05:15 PM

Why would the financial magazines be more trustworthy when it comes to Gary's private affairs? He may have invested 35 millions, but he doesn't owe that much tax back, IF he owes anything.

I haven't read any review for Under the Radar, but I can imagine the papers are embracing Robbie. They've been making an existence off him for so long it's no surprise. I did, however, listen to a few of the tracks. That's because that was all I could swallow really. His voice is completely ruined and he basically shouts; it's quite awful and it's completely distracting from the songs. But the papers have never reported on Robbie's inability to sing, while picking on every single little thing of Gary's.
I have no doubts that a reunion would improve sales; I'd be deluded not to admit it. But I still like more the output of TT as a trio than as a quintet. Thankfully, the way they're doing commercially doesn't influence my musical taste. If it did, Progress would be my favorite.

Posted by: Aphrodite 16th December 2014, 10:21 PM

People are also forgetting Robbie's album sales have seriously declined in the UK, and when Robbie rejoined take that they were far bigger in the UK at that time.I preferred them as 4 but there was fans if both who really wanted to see them as 5 again.I don't miss Jason out of the line up and three is a great album but I would also say its not their best,the circus is unbeatable for me. Regardless of what goes on I'm just delighted to have all the material they have released since they returned including Gary's album as part of my collection. I am aware they peaked and they won't achieve the huge album sales they have been achieving in the past but that's not to take away that at present they are still hugely successful.

Posted by: dylandog 16th December 2014, 10:43 PM

Milly, I have to agree with you regarding Robbie's relationship with the media. Generally his reviews are consistently better than TT's and Gary's. Vocally Rob's voice is more powerful than Gary's but he is frequently out of tune; this is never pointed out by journalists and his performance skills carry him a long way. I also think if Gary had put out an album of essentially covers the papers would have pounced on this. A review of lll in the Telegraph by their music journalist , Neil McCormick, I think his name is, is indicative of the presses relationship with TT/Gary as every opportunity was taken to mention Rob. It was littered with references to Rob's influence on Progress and the far superior quality of it. The review also pitted lll against Rob's new album commenting on the quality of Rob's output- which I can't comment on as I've not listened to it. There is unquestionably a core group of journalists who appear to get some kind of kick out of pulling Gary down. Maybe it's to do with his affiliation with the Tories, although as far as I can tell, this amounts to Gary backing a music initiative of Cameron's. Whatever the reason Gary in particular is fair game and I think he knows it. I have to say that given the amount of abuse and stick he receives, whatever his failings are, Gary remains dignified with no sense of bitterness - and for that reason alone he deserves some credit.

Posted by: jay727 16th December 2014, 11:00 PM

Realistically 98% of the musicians are conservative, they are the biggest party in England and are close concentrated in the capital. We live in a democracy. Who cares what Gary or anyone else for that matter votes for. Most of these journalists write for right wing papers anyways!! Hypocrisy is outstanding, especially coming from Neil McCormick from the 'Torygraph'.

Robbie's Rudebox flopped, RKTVS was a critical flop, and take the crown sold less than Rudebox. Swings both ways ( a cover album) sold the best in the last 5 years for Robbie. His sales are falling harder and faster than Take That's.

All this Gary talk is utter nonsense. As mentioned above, TT and over 1,000 other people invested in that scheme. Obviously on the advice of accountants. They have enough going on with their lives without trying to figure out how much tax and income is coming in. It's not as if they have one salary job where the tax is simple and easy, they all have income from sources everywhere. I would imagine it's chaotic. They employ accountants to take care of this and invest their money wisely. The accountants messed up - these things happen. Much worse things happening in the world than a non-illegal and probably quite innocent act

Posted by: Bond Bug 17th December 2014, 01:31 AM

I agree with everything you say. The tax thing shouldn't have been a big deal. I expect most people would try to pay less tax than they do, and millions do. Amazon manages to pay hardly any tax in the UK. Are those who say they will boycott Take That also stop their custom from companies who pay as little tax as possible? But the point I have been making is that this did become a big story for Gary Barlow and Take that. Why? Because, he had become one of the biggest household names in UK. And after being splashed across the front cover of tabloid newspapers and becoming a major story, Gary Barlow should have addressed the complaints. On the thread about the tax issue, I made this very point, that at least Gary Barlow needed to deal with the matter head on or pay the price when they released the next album.

Posted by: milly 17th December 2014, 11:08 AM

He sounds more powerful because he screams a lot Range wise, he's quite average. He had a 3 octaves vocal range at his best - but even so, his lack of vocal control ruins everything. Gary has a 4 octaves vocal range and, as we know, he's a singing machine

Posted by: pippa 17th December 2014, 01:06 PM

Gary is a far better singer than Robbie, that said, Robbie is a better entertainer. Take That can entertain on stage as group. The press do favour Robbie and always will, that said, Take That were lucky with the press for quite some time, Mark was extremely lucky when it was revealed about his 5 year affair, the press did not go to town on him. I would suspect had it been Gary who had the affair the press would have hung dried and quartered him. The press is the press and when you step into the public eye it goes with the territory.

I agree with those who have mentioned Robbies declining sales, the press do not make to many nods to this week but will be very happy to do it with Take That. Robbies last few albums struggled for double platinum status when previous albums had reached 7 times platinum, the belief that Take That are the only act suffering declining sales is laughable.

Posted by: jay727 17th December 2014, 04:00 PM

Exactly Pippa, funny how no one mentions Mark's affair but instead lay into Gary...

Robbie can't sing live anymore, he ends up just shouting and out of breath. I remember when he did Candy on XF and was panting around and changing the lyrics. When Gary sung it on his tour it sounded much much better.

I'm sort of beginning to view These Days as TT's version of Candy...(which I love, for the record)

Posted by: pippa 17th December 2014, 05:34 PM

While not a Robbie fan i do love Candy, its one of his few songs i bought. I went to see Robbie a few years ago with friend,her partner couldnt go so i was awarded the ticket instead, he did put on a good show but his voice is nothing amazing. Credit where it is due, he has carved out an amazing career and will be remembered for years to come and has done enough to be part of the music history books.

Take That are in a different league, the group have magic, the delivery and stage presence they have on tour is fantastic, they really do deliver and most importantly they can sing live very well. I think they work extremely hard, they are not afraid to try new sounds, all their albums have remained pop but never repeat the same formula and like Robbie they are now well and truly part of the music history books where they rightly belong.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 18th December 2014, 12:20 PM

well, Rudebox flopped with 4.5 million sales worldwide, pretty nice flop. RKTVS sold more than 300,000 copies in the first week and TTC sold 1.3 million though and inspired a tour of 1.5 million people. SBW sold 2 million and covered a tour of 50 dates the next year. This is what I call success. Without bringing TT down only in regard of facts III sells nowhere aside of the UK not even in Ireland and SISYL of Gary was planned to go to Australia, but did not sell there, neither in Europe.
The press had never been good to Robbie, remember 2006 and the entire UFO thing. They are better now with him as he has good material and does not evade taxes for example. He has changed and matured. They realize it. But to compare the success of TT with Robbie (even in Britain) is ridiculous (see above numbers). They were Lucky with Progress and Rob's attraction in Europe. They were not called Robbie and his backing singers in Europe for nothing .

Posted by: milly 18th December 2014, 12:58 PM

1. TT did not EVADE taxes. There's a big difference between avoidance and evasion.
2. Robbie is no cleaner than the rest: http://money.aol.co.uk/2014/07/14/celebrities-advised-to-pay-disputed-tax/#!slide=aol_1260397
His advantage is being loved by the media, no matter what you say. I've rarely seen vitriolic articles about him.

Robbie may have sold well throughout his career, but the truth is that he hasn't produced any hit (aside from Candy, which ironically is co-written by Gary) in longer than a decade. TT and Gary have had good songs, that get airplay, unlike Robbie. For me, his material is just not good enough. SBW was a pretty lame excuse for making more money. If that's what a successful artist does - bad covers -, I'll pass on it.
Gary never released SISYL anywhere apart from UK and Germany and did not do any promo. He appeared on one German show and managed to get SISYL into top 10 based on just that. The German radios played Let Me Go all year long and other European radios picked on it as well. Let Me Go was no1 on one Romanian radio station as well, for quite a few weeks.
Just out of curiosity: when did SBW sell 2 million copies? I know it sold 1 million copies, out of which 700k in UK, just like Gary. That was in the spring, I doubt he sold 1 more million in Europe, when he didn't even sell 1 million in UK.
Nobody is taking away Robbie's achievements, but the same should be applied with regards to TT.

I don't know which part of Europe regards Robbie as the leader of TT, but, as far as I know, all people with some common sense and musical knowledge know that Gary fills that part. But there are always the papers, the idiots and the sheep who'd come up with the non-sense that TT is Robbie and his backing singers. That doesn't mean that their opinion has any validity or should be taken into consideration, never mind be brought as an argument into a discussion.

Posted by: Cat62 18th December 2014, 07:47 PM

I'm not the biggest Robbie fan, I do like some of his older songs, but on many occassions I find him a little too much. But nevertheless I have to be honest and agree with Elisabeth that if you look at Europe, outside the UK, Robbie is much more successful and has a much bigger fanbase than TT. Here in Sweden for instance both the media, and most people, are only interested in TT if Robbie is a part of it. The reviews for the Progress tour was very telling; the real show didn't start until Robbie came on. Also, no way that TT would have sold out stadiums across Europe if Robbie had not been part of the tour.

Re III not doing as well as some people expected. I'm sorry to say, but I don't think the album is that great. In my opinion it's not their best album and after These Days I had hoped for more. It's not a bad album, but I do feel that they could have done better. I can't put my finger on what, but something is lacking and I have to agree with one of the reviewers calling the album "unadventurous" and with "bland lyrics".

I read some comments on here that Gary should sing most leads because that's how it's always been and that's how it was the first time round. I don't think you could compare TT of today to TT in the old days. Back then Gary was the only one writing music. That's not the case today. I think one reason for TT being so successful when they came back was because it wasn't just Gary and his backing singers/dancers. They were all more involved in the process and it felt like they were more like equals, and I think what came out of that attracted new fans.

Milly said in a comment "TT is what it is because of the GB sound". This makes me wonder what you mean by "the GB sound"? Do you mean just the voice of GB or do you also mean the music? Because I think that when you listen to TT of today you can hear so much more than just "the GB sound". For example on The Circus there are lots of Mark influences in the music, and I'm not just talking about the songs he sings lead on.

Posted by: dylandog 18th December 2014, 09:25 PM

I've just watched TT on red button and they were absolutely fantastic. The new songs sound brilliant live and the dynamic between the three of them is perfect. Whether you like Take That or not, they are undoubtedly a quality, quality live act. I loved the new take on The Flood ( well done Howard ) and the whole concert was unbelievably good. Yes, Gary was the lead singer (wish we could let this issue lie) but the sound was unmistakably the Take That sound with great harmonies. I bought a tour ticket somewhat hesitantly as I wasn't sure how they would sound live with just the three; but my concerns have been blow away tonight - they were superb !!

Posted by: milly 18th December 2014, 09:57 PM

For me, what the media says and what people think are 2 different things, but let's let that rest. There's always the facts and what people think about the facts. While people's opinions may be important, they can't change facts. And the fact is that Robbie has never been an integral part of TT.

By the "GB sound", yes I meant Gary's voice and, to some extent, his style of music as well. While Mark's influence may have grown over time, most TT fans would not buy an album full of indie songs. As I've already pointed out, Gary has to be given more songs than the others also for practical reasons: the live performances. Without meaning to be disrespectful or put anyone down, how many fans would buy tickets to a concert where Mark is the main performer and Gary just a backing singer? The answer is in Mark's solo tour.

Posted by: milly 18th December 2014, 09:59 PM

I've listened to it on the radio, because I couldn't watch it and it was brilliant. The new songs especially sounded amazing, in particular Get Ready for It and Flaws.
The only downside for me was Flood. I know most people loved it, but I found it really strange, but that's just me.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 18th December 2014, 10:01 PM

well you cannot argue with popularity in hindsight of Rob 77 mill albums solo,25 with TT and 10 million concert visitors, speak for itself and if you day that the press was not vitriolic to rob you have not been along long. until shortly they have always preferred TT in the UK. Their last international hit was The Flood written by Robbie already before he rejoined them. They are great live, but don't transfer outside the UK, despite promo in Germany and NL they do not chart and looking at the sales the UK non thatters are not keen on this album either

Posted by: milly 18th December 2014, 10:14 PM

Nobody has disputed Robbbie's popularity. That doesn't mean that TT are some unknown act, without any European fanbase. The simple fact that I'm on this forum proves that.

Robbie did not write The Flood before he rejoined TT, where did you get that from? Robbie's contribution to Progress consists of lyrics and melodies. Gary came up with all the backing tracks; he even explained in detail how he made all the sections for The Flood.

If the papers haven't stated that Robbie is worse than a criminal or the scum of earth - literally -, like they did with Gary, I'd say he didn't have it that bad. Besides, unlike Gary, Robbie was responsible for those negative articles through his own actions, while Gary seems to irritate the media without any reason. Most of the times, he doesn't even say or do anything.

Posted by: Better Man 18th December 2014, 10:25 PM

SBW sell 2 million copies, that's correctly.
720k in UK and ~1.3k abroad

Posted by: dylandog 18th December 2014, 10:45 PM

Gary was indeed responsible for the music for Progress and he and Robbie collaborated on The Flood. As far as I am aware Robbie doesn't write music but lyrics only. He is unquestionably far more popular than Take That around the world, but then again he never went away from the music scene for 10 years and promotes extensively, not just the UK. Popularity itself does not equate to quality, but music is, and always will be subjective. In my eyes Rob was very , very lucky that Angels came along when it did. His album wasn't doing particularly well and his career hadn't really taken off. He was fortunate that he was teamed with Guy Chambers on his first couple of albums as Chambers was instrumental in developing Rob's sound in the early days. I still maintain that Gary has battled against negative press in a way that Rob never has and he remains dignified in spite of it ; something I believe Rob could never do. As for the present, I wasn't that keen on Flaws as a track but my goodness it sounds wonderful live. In fact all of the newer tracks were much stronger live than I expected. Visually they looked great and very relaxed together. Those of us who are fans will perhaps have to accepted that TT's reign on the UK charts may have come to an end, but take some kind of solace in the fact that they are still producing music and still look and sound fantastic live. There are few pop acts with such enduring popularity and it does bear testament to their talent as songwriters and performers.

Posted by: milly 18th December 2014, 11:14 PM

Certifications show he sold 1.5 million copies worldwide, out of which 710k in UK.

Posted by: pippa 19th December 2014, 10:01 AM

Extremely well said. I firmly believe Robbie would have never handled the negative press that Gary received going back all those years. The press were extremely brutal to Gary at that time and Robbie Williams fueled so much of it. At that time, an element of bullying really stood out in my mind from Robbie, he had the upper hand and took every single opportunity to humiliate Gary where possible and that is not a trait that sits well with me, its an ugly trait that probably shows the other side to Robbie Williams. Gary could possibly be the same behind the public eye but we have yet to see it. Like now Gary took all that very well and did not respond with replies that im sure Robbie was pushing for at the time. From what i can remember from that era one of the few things Gary did say was "I have never sung a Robbie Williams song, but he can never say he did not sing a Gary Barlow song".

Posted by: milly 19th December 2014, 11:23 AM

As far as I'm concerned, Robbie can stay with all his sales and success, I'll take Gary with all his Flaws

Posted by: pippa 19th December 2014, 11:49 AM

Fans of both are lucky, both acts have remained very successful and both continue to release music, enough to keep all happy. The fans of Take That and Robbie are extremely lucky. If we look at all the bands before and after them, Take That have stood the test of time, Robbies solo career likewise, Gary has built up decent solo success and although not commercially as successful, fans of Mark are still getting solo music from him.

When we look at bands like the Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys and Westlife fans dont get to enjoy what we so thankfully get which is great quality music and wonderful tours and commercial success by the bag load.

Posted by: Aphrodite 19th December 2014, 04:58 PM

The album is back up to number 10 here in Ireland this week.They are on the late late show here tonight so I would hope they achieve a new peak next week on the back of that.I know it won't happen with three but their appearances on the show for the circus and beautiful world eras was what got them to number 1 as neither had reached number 1 beforehand.

Posted by: Better Man 19th December 2014, 06:30 PM

According to IFPI report SBW sold 1.55M in 2013.
+ additional 450k with a big Tour in 2014.

Sorry for offtop


Great words!!

Posted by: nirvanamusic 19th December 2014, 07:55 PM

Surprised about Denmark hopefully promo or a tour would make the album rise overseas. No certs known for 90's.

Denmark:

Progress: 1 (4 weeks) 2010 2x PL
Greatest Hits: 1 (3 weeks) 1996
Beautiful World: 2 2006 PL
Nobody Else: 3 1995
Everything Changes: 6 1993
The Circus: 13 2008 G
III: 23 2014

Japan:

Nobody Else: 6 1995 G
Greatest Hits: 12 1996 PL
Everything Changes: 25 1993
Beautiful World: 40 2006
Take That & Party: 45 1992
Progress: 145 2010
III: 182 2014
The Circus: 197 2008
Never Forget: The Ultimate Collection: 224 2005

Posted by: Cat62 19th December 2014, 08:13 PM

An album full of indie songs? Ok, from this I assume that A) you are not very familiar with Mark's solo work or B) you and I don't define "indie songs" in the same way. My guess is A Mark's solo work is so much more than just indie. Also, if you look at the credits for both The Circus and III where Jamie Norton and Ben Mark (Mark's long time writing partners) are listed for the songs it's a big chance that Mark had a lot to do with those songs. Not so much indie there I think That includes These Days, which I heard in an interview, originated from Mark.

I'm totally aware of the fact that most TT fans are also GB fans and I have never, or would never, suggest that Mark should be the main performer. But I do like that they all share lead vocals from time to time as that gives the music more diversity, in my opinion.


Exactly! Very well said.


I really enjoyed the concert on BBC R2. It was great to hear and see them together, and I thought the new songs were stronger and sounded much better live than on the record.

Posted by: jay727 20th December 2014, 12:50 AM

The radio 2 concert was fantastic, absolutely great dynamic between them and great set list (opening with the garden was excellent!)

I think we need to move back to the topic here. Elizabeth, we know Robbie is big. But so are TT. Robbie didn't write the flood I also very much doubt he sold 2 million of SBW. Incidentally after Xmas it plummeted down the charts.

I take an interest in Robbie and it's nice that when TT have a year off we now have Robbie or Gary solo records to get us through the gap. Who cares who sells what and who sells more records in Vietnam or wherever...lets just be thankful we have such great music we can enjoy every year or so

Posted by: Mybelle 20th December 2014, 09:18 AM

Well said!! I agree with everything you say.

I watched a couple of songs online of the concert and they seemed really at ease and the new stuff sounded great. The Garden is one of my favourites, but being a Jay fan I do miss seeing him there. I wonder whether he'll be back for the 25th anniversary, though judging by the tone of his resignation letter I can't see it happening.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 20th December 2014, 09:41 PM

jay ,yes Robbie wrote the flood before reuniting with TT. it is in chris heath book he wrote it 2008/9. SBW sold 790,000 in the UK an 2mi;;ion worldwide (600,000 in Germany). Don't forget that different to TT he is INTERNATIONAL successful. the numbers are official. a long way to go for TT also to have 17 Brit awards an 8 echos. TT is big ....in the UK without him...but even there they failed this time to impress the passer by

Posted by: elisabeth1973 20th December 2014, 09:43 PM

oh and Germany, Denmark is not vietnam...and believe me, if TT would sell there it would be important for you. denial does not change facts

Posted by: Linz 20th December 2014, 11:08 PM

Elisabeth, there's a Robbie forum on buzzjack, for Robbie fans like you. Instead of trying to spoil the TT forum why don't you try that

Posted by: milly 21st December 2014, 08:25 AM

This will be my last post about Robbie, cause I'm tired of discussing about him, especially since your intention is obviously to big him up and put Take That down. Besides, you never reply to other points than the ones that are convenient for your cause.
Robbie did NOT sell 790k in UK - unless you have proof for that. As far as I'm aware, the official figures are somewhere around 710-715k, just a few thousands more than Gary. Also, in Germany, he only sold 400k, which is impressive in itself, but I wish you'd stop exaggerating with those numbers.
Of course he'd sell more than TT outside UK, since he does lots of promo everywhere, unlike TT. That does not cover the fact that his songs have been avreage lately and he has failed to write relevant music. Selling so much on the back of a covers album is not my idea of a succesful artist.
Even 1D have Brit awards, so let's not go there. Gary has 6 Ivors for the music he wrote himself, not for something co-written or written by somebody else.

As for The Flood, I don't know who Chris Heath is or why I should believe him. Gary has provided evidence about how he wrote the song. Why would have Robbie written The Flood in 2008 and saved it for TT? It's completely illogical.

Posted by: Mybelle 21st December 2014, 10:12 AM

I don't get why you need to come on here and belittle Take That's success either.

We all know that worldwide Robbie is more successful than Take That, but this is a Take That forum. You wouldn't like it if we went on the Robbie forum to have a pop at him and his ego. And BTW, I know none of Take That are perfect either.

You can't take away the fact that they've had a very successful and long career - a career that many artists would kill to have. They've also won awards, but of course they wouldn't have as many as Robbie due to not being so successful worldwide.

And I'm sorry but the Brits are a joke anyway. Everyone knows that The Brits takes itself much too seriously. They're hardly the calibre of the Ivor Novellos and are mostly voted for by a load of musical big-wigs who are so up their own arses that they only vote for what they see as "cool". They like Rob but not Take That very much, which was noticeable when they won awards the year that Rob came back and the only awards they won when he wasn't around were the music audience voted ones.

Now, can we please get back on topic on 111, not how great Rob is compared to Take That?

Posted by: Kath 21st December 2014, 12:43 PM

I agree with you about The Brit Awards - however I highlight your comment about the Novellos as they're nothing much to write home about either. I'd quantify that by a comment Gary himself made when being interviewed by Andi Peters. I think it was just after TT split and he was showing Andi around his massive mansion in Cheshire. Andi commented that Gary appeared to not have his Novellos in high display to which Gary replied (not his exact words) 'I don't take them seriously now that the Spice Girls have received one'. Gary is a huge bundle of contradictions though - I even remember a comment he made in an interview he did (on TT's success and reflecting on his inability to crack the States) his words were 'I'm so OVER America' and yet he seems to be sniffing around Broadway and is hand-in-hand with Harvey Weinstein. Having said that he said he hated being a solo artist and he didn't want to 'go back there'. He'd tried it once and found it wasn't very nice ... well I suppose for his legions of fans its a good job that he once again contradicted himself. I still like the concept of Take That and most of the tunes are great - but Gary Barlow is full of shit!

Posted by: milly 21st December 2014, 01:09 PM

You do understand that he was joking? He was friends with the Spice Girls, so I doubt he dissed them and the Novellos. Besides, as far as I remember, Gary was showing Andi his wall full of awards; the Ivor Novellos are statues, which makes it a bit hard for them to be displayed on a wall.

I also doubt that his idea of breaking America is composing the songs for a musical - something he was asked to do and he accepted; it's not like h advertised that he wanted to be famous in America and someone replied to the advertisement.

As for him having said that he didn't want to be a solo artist again, I believe that he was serious at the time. As he said himself, the idea didn't really start to develop until he toured 2 years ago. I guess anyone would have changed his mind seeing that people love him and demand a solo record from him. That being said, doing a solo record from time to time doesn't mean he's flying solo again, just like Robbie having done Progress with the boys doesn't mean he's part of the group anymore. Everyone has projects outside the group.

I realize that not liking someone makes you read more than there is in that person's words and actions, but let's not overdo it.
I'm not saying Gary doesn't have his moments when he contradicts himself, but, when it comes to important stuf, he's pretty consistent.

Posted by: jay727 21st December 2014, 01:26 PM

Kath for someone who despises Gary so much, you just can't stop talking about him


Elizabeth - watch Look Back Don't Stare. Robbie did not write the flood on his own in 2008

Going back to the SUBJECT....did anyone see TT on the Late Late Show? If not here's the link http://vimeo.com/115024432
Thought it was a really good performance, hoping now that it'll impact the album sales and get a top 5 in Ireland.

Good medley performance on Strictly last night too - a medley of Greatest Day, These Days and Never Forget. Not sure if this will have any impact but it certainly can't hurt

Posted by: Kath 21st December 2014, 01:32 PM

Oh I'm sorry but by the tone of his voice - he definitely was NOT joking. He said it in a very, very arrogant way. He was right of course! I have known when he's said things in jest as there was something he said about the Pussycat Dolls in an interview for a Spanish TV show - and although he said it dead-pan and straight faced - I could tell it was with a touch of irony that I found totally hilarious. I also very much enjoyed his interview with Jonathan Ross (on the launch of his book) and again - he was hilarious. He was a funny guy back then. Now he's just plain boring.



I was a fan at the time I saw that interview - and even though I thought he was arrogant (there are a number of entertainers that I like that I find a certain amount of arrogance is actually one of the attractive things). Looking back - I do wonder at times why I liked Gary so much at first (probably because I fancied him I suppose - I always do go for cuddly and chubby people). I think the more weight he's lost - the most arrogance he's gained to replace it with.

Posted by: dylandog 21st December 2014, 01:59 PM

I think the Take That vs Robbie discussion does need to be put to bed now. Everyone accepts Robbie is more successful - no one has contradicted this point.

I will quickly respond to you, Kath regarding Gary, I simply cannot see arrogance, I really can't. I see someone who was cast aside by the music business and clawed his way back up. I see someone who is proud of what he and the boys have achieved with their comeback. I see someone who loves music and loves performing. I see a man who is desperate to remain relevant and takes any opportunity which comes his way. At no point do I recall Gary saying he is fantastic, the best song writer around etc, etc. The joy of watching Take That is the sheer joy they have in performing - it really is wonderful to see.

Regarding lll - I think most of us would now accept that it hasn't been a massive success, but has done ok. Unless their is a resurgence in sales over the next month their sales will be modest at best. I really think it is an excellent album but I seem to be out on a limb with the critics who on the whole hate it. The songs sound great live and I genuinely think it's their best album since BW.

Posted by: milly 21st December 2014, 04:19 PM

I agree with everything. The only difference for me is that I like III even more than BW. Of course, that might also be because the album is fresh new right now.

Posted by: milly 21st December 2014, 04:24 PM

I saw the Late Late Show I thought Gary was a true gentleman when he refused to read the Bono joke.
I've noticed that, for these kind of shows, they go with the shorter and more uptempo version of These Days, which I like. I wish they'd start singing other songs from the album as well. Get Ready For It sounded epic on the BBC R2 concert and I think it's a good choice for the 2nd single. I hope people outside the fanbase will like it as well and buy it, to make it chart decently.

The performance on Strictly had somewhat of an impact, especially on iTunes. Before Strictly, the single was at 12 and the album somewhere at 50+ and now they've both climbed. I don't know how this will be reflected in actual sales.

Posted by: jay727 21st December 2014, 07:09 PM

Good to see These Days at #6 and III in the top 5 for Xmas


NOTE - We were wondering why Face To Face didn't take off after the XF Final last year...but Ed Sheeran's new song missed the top 40, and 1D's scraped into the top 70...I think these songs get lost in the chaos of it all, regardless of the song quality

Posted by: Kath 21st December 2014, 08:40 PM

Well I have to brighten the TT forum lives up a little with my comments about him. I'm doing this totally out of altruism! I'm thinking of you all! I just figure you get bored with the same old 'Gary is God' tosh!

Posted by: jay727 21st December 2014, 10:51 PM

Ha well you certainly brighten up the forum. Have a good Xmas Kath

Posted by: pippa 22nd December 2014, 09:19 AM

Debate is always good, opinions are always great to read. I have enjoyed it all.

Wonderful to see These Days continue doing well, and its remains top 10 on the current iTunes update,the signs are positive for yet another week in the top 10. Even more wonderful to see the album climb back into the top 5. I look forward to discovering what their sales are for this week.

Posted by: nirvanamusic 22nd December 2014, 10:29 AM

Take That's These Days slips 4-6 (39,565 sales)
Take That' s III (6-5, 86,256 sales, +20.18%)

From musicweek

Posted by: jay727 22nd December 2014, 11:11 AM

Great so that takes III past 300,000 now, and These Days is about 10k short of 200k

Posted by: pippa 22nd December 2014, 12:07 PM

86,256 is good but i am disappointed it is not higher. Actually outside the top 2 none of the sales are overly impressive. At least the album is platinum now and sales should be decent for this week again.

Posted by: milly 22nd December 2014, 01:03 PM

For the first time since the release, I'm not disappointed. I was expecting around 70k, like last week or even less, so seeing an improvement on last week is good.
As long as the album continues to sell constantly, it's all good.
Going platinum in 3 weeks is pretty impressive. We have to put the Progress and Circus era behind us and admit that times have changed for all artists.

There's some promo lined up for Christmas - TOPTP and the Helene Fischer show in Germany. Maybe that will boost the sales somewhat.

Posted by: gooddelta 22nd December 2014, 01:06 PM

I bought a second copy last week, for a Xmas present. Having listened to it a few times now I'm really impressed with it. In 21 pages of this thread there's surprisingly actual little discussion of the music

My favourite songs are These Days (brilliant catchy uptempo lead single), Lovelife (almost like Mark singing an Avicii song), Into The Wild (like TT meet Swedish House Mafia), Amazing (interesting folk-pop sound - quite Beatles-esque), Get Ready For It (quite an 'epic' sounding classic TT 2.0 type song) and Flaws (classic Gary ballad) but I'm enjoying the whole album.

Posted by: jay727 22nd December 2014, 01:36 PM

Agreed! I'm really enjoying the album. I love the first line 'oh I can see the future coming to ya...' Really epic way to kick off the album. Let in the Sun is really good, as is Higher than Higher, If You Want It and Howard's lead song.

I would really like If You Want It or Let in The Sun to be the third single. I wonder if they will release a 4th single in the UK this time? I hope Get Ready For It will be a big hit

Posted by: gooddelta 22nd December 2014, 01:51 PM

If You Want It is quite interesting, sort of reminds me of Foster The People or something like that - mainstream psychadelic pop. I like all of the other songs you mentioned as well. I'd probably rank it higher than The Circus (and I love The Circus) although below Beautiful World and Progress for now, but we'll see how it holds up on me.

Posted by: milly 22nd December 2014, 02:18 PM

Nooooo, I want Higher than Higher, Flaws or I Like It as a 3rd single
If Ed Sheeran or Sam Smith can have hits with TOL or SWM, surely Higher than Higher or Flaws can smash as well. They're miles better - although I'm aware quality is not always the criterion for having a hit.

I think Get Ready for It is the best choice for the 2nd single - it's midtempo and it's epic. I always feel like someone is spying on me when I hear it. And when Gary sings "I'll hold your hands with good intentions", I can't help myself from laughing.

I'd also like to hear Freeze and Fall Down at Your Feet performed live, because I love them.

Posted by: Kath 22nd December 2014, 04:39 PM

And Seasons Felicitations to you too Jay!

Posted by: dylandog 22nd December 2014, 07:48 PM

lll is the only Take That album where I don't skip a track although I haven't listened to the three extra songs via Google. I absolutely love Higher Than Higher. Gary's voice sounds wonderful and it's just a relaxing song to listen to. It would be great if they put it out as a single - but I don't think they will. Flaws seems to be the ballad of choice by the band as they've sung it a couple of times now, but I don't believe it would have the general appeal of Higher Than Higher.

Funnily enough this era is actually missing a more ballad type song and I think it would interest casual TT listeners as it's more in the vain of their earlier stuff. If you think about it Ed Sheeran and Sam Smith's albums are selling off the back of ballads so for TT not to release a ballad off their album would be strange. Expecting Get Ready for It be showcased at the Movie Awards if the timing is right in the same way Rule the World was. I think last week's sales are higher than I expected them to be but they will struggle to get anywhere near a million as there's always a considerable drop in January.

If they could arrange another Audience with type show and sing a good selection of the songs off the album I really do think it would make a big difference to sales. These Days as much as it's catchy has been done to death now and they would be better performing one of the ballads off the album.

Posted by: slowdown73 23rd December 2014, 12:16 AM

This is their best album so far for me. I like every track on the album.

Posted by: milly 23rd December 2014, 07:12 AM

Totally agree. These Days has the radio support right now and it holds well without too much promotion. It's time the boys started promoting another song. I adore Flaws, but I think Higher than Higher would have a broader appeal and it's not even that slow. There's a sort of poll on Take That's fb page about what songs fans would like to hear on the tour. From what I saw, Higher than Higher is amongst the most demanded.
Gary has said he'd love to do another Audience With, but I think we have to insist a bit more in order for that to happen.

You have to listen to the bonus tracks. In my opinion, they should have been on the standard version, especially Fall Down at Your Feet. And Gary's voice on the verses of If It's not Love is to die for.

Posted by: Cat62 24th December 2014, 12:00 AM

I'm still trying to decide what I really think about the album . It seems to depend on which mood I'm in. My favourite songs are These Days, Lovelife, I Like It, Into The Wild. After the concert at BBC Radio 2 I like Get Ready For It and Let In The Sun much better than I did before .

I was a little surprised to see in the credits for III that they worked together with a Swedish songwriting duo on Higher Than Higher and also recorded it in Stockholm. Wish I had known that earlier

Posted by: slowdown73 24th December 2014, 03:32 PM

Let in the sun would make strong second single. I'm not sure how well get ready for it will do. Its not a bad tune by any means but not one of the standout tracks from the album for me.

Posted by: Aphrodite 24th December 2014, 10:39 PM

Have had the album on a lot today and boy do Iobe love light,great tune that should be a single

Posted by: gooddelta 27th December 2014, 08:49 AM

Album is 99p on Google Play today only, tell your friends etc...

Posted by: gooddelta 27th December 2014, 09:20 AM

Song is also climbing quickly on iTunes Germany, up to #24, they performed it on the Helene Fischer () show:

Posted by: jay727 27th December 2014, 12:05 PM

That's great news! Hopefully the album will get a push too!

Do you know when the German single and album charts are?

Posted by: dylandog 27th December 2014, 01:00 PM

Anyone know the sales figures for this week? I've also listened to the album over the past couple of days. I still love Higher Than Higher but there really isn't a song that I don't like. It is a shame sales aren't higher which means there will be a fair few people going to the tour who don't know the songs outside of These Days.

Although Get Ready For It isn't my favourite by a long way Gary has said it would make a good opener for the tour, and I can see why. The songs off the album sound really , really strong live and TT are one of the few who's songs often sound stronger live. I think this tour may actually be a really good one.

I've heard some people say that their sound is poor and missing Jay and Rob's voices. People forget that Mike and Milton in particular provide backing vocals which means the sound hasn't changed much at all. To me they sound just as strong as before and if anything you can hear Howard's voice much more. This era of TT may actually be the one where Howard shines and that would be a lovely and unexpected result of Jay leaving - although I still find it strange looking at just the three of them!!

Posted by: milly 27th December 2014, 01:29 PM

I saw a conversation like this on twitter, but, to be fair, it was initiated by an avid Robbie fan, so I couldn't take it seriously. To me, they have sounded incredibly well on all their live sessions. Gary's voice on Relight My Fire on the BBC Live Session was better than during his youth and the harmonies were strong. People dissing them are clearly bitter. You can say you dislike their new songs, but to say they suck live is: a) a result of frustration or b) a hearing problem.

As for their sales this week, I hope they stayed above 70k. Anything better than that is a bonus for me.

Posted by: Aphrodite 27th December 2014, 02:19 PM

Three gets a new single digit peak here in Ireland this week climbing 4 places to number 6,these days also has reclimbed 2 places to number 10

Posted by: milly 27th December 2014, 02:38 PM

This is great news. It would have been better if they had been top 5, but I'll take 6th place as well.

Posted by: Aphrodite 27th December 2014, 07:28 PM

Ya top 5 would have been nice but even if it climbs no further a number 6 peak is much better than its previous number 10 peak. From their late late show interview a greatest hits looks certain to be their next release which should do well. I am hoping we will a live CD release of the three tour like we did with the circus and progress tours. Back to three, i so want lovelight as single 3 and usually a mark lead gets a ssingle release from their albums so hopefully it happens with three.

Posted by: gooddelta 27th December 2014, 07:43 PM

What did they say in reference to a new Greatest Hits? I figured it would be inevitable though. If it's a one disc album I imagine the following will definitely make the cut:

A Million Love Songs
Could It Be Magic
Pray
Relight My Fire
Everything Changes
Back For Good
Never Forget
Patience
Shine
Rule The World
Greatest Day
The Flood
These Days

And then it will be interesting to see which other singles appear. Would love something like Robbie's 2010 hits album though, a completely comprehensive 2-disc set with some new tracks too.

Posted by: dylandog 27th December 2014, 08:07 PM

I guess any Greatest Hits album will coincide with the anniversary which for some reason they have said is 2017? I reckon it will be a two disc compilation. They have such a back catalogue that it won't be difficult for them to fill a double side album. I would imagine all of the above would be on one side and less successful one's on the other.

It will be interesting to see the set list for the forthcoming tour and how many songs from lll are included. I'm hoping they have a bit of confidence in it and include at least seven songs off it - although they'll probably stick with the tried and tested. I would also love to hear some of the lesser known songs off the BW album and some B sides such as Rocket Ship, but again I think that's wishful thinking.

Posted by: jay727 28th December 2014, 12:25 AM

If they did it they should just do it for the 2006 onwards songs - The Ultimate Collection is still selling and has all of their 90s classics on it.

Patience
Shine
Rule the world
Greatest Day
Up all Night
Said it all
Hold up a light
The flood
Kidz
Love love
These days
Get ready for it
Single 3 from III

I would imagine they would include new songs as well as they know many of the fans already have these songs - something like How deep is your love and Today I lost you

Has anyone heard anymore on potential promo lined up in January? Kingsman is released at the end of Jan and they have already filmed the music video to GRFI (although not officially announced it as the 2nd single) - wonder if theyll coincide the film release with the single promo? Can't really think of many occasions where they could perform GRFI...the Brits is the only thing that comes to mind

Posted by: gooddelta 28th December 2014, 08:39 AM

The Garden seems to have been adopted as a recent classic as well, perhaps that will find its way on somehow.

I love Today I've Lost You, shame nothing was ever done with that track besides a token GH inclusion.

Posted by: milly 28th December 2014, 08:51 AM

My biggest regret is that Don't Say Goodbye never made it as a single. I'd love to hear it live just once and then to find it on a Greatest Hits album, but I think that's just wishful thinking on my part. I'd like for people to discover more of TT's discography than the obvious hits and singles that have been played to death by radios.

Am I the only one deluded enough to hope there's some promo lined up before the end of the year?

Posted by: Mybelle 28th December 2014, 08:53 AM

I think Gary posted on Twitter just before Christmas that they'd shot the video for Get Ready for it - my Twitter isn't working this morning for me to double check exactly what he said.

Also, I think it was mentioned somewhere that they're at The National TV awards on 21 January, so hopefully they'll perform their new song on there. There's nothing on the site, but I'm sure I did read something about it.

Posted by: dylandog 28th December 2014, 01:34 PM

I'd forgotten about Don't Say Goodbye . That's a lovely song and would indeed have made a great single. Many TT songs are unknown outside of their core fan base and that's a shame because they have produced many fine B sides and songs which haven't been given a general release.

Posted by: gooddelta 28th December 2014, 01:54 PM

We All Fall Down, the b-side to I'd Wait For Life is my favourite TT b-side (and was 100 times better than the a-side). I know they polished it up and stuck it on the re-release of Beautiful World but I prefer the simplicity of the first version.

Posted by: jay727 28th December 2014, 05:43 PM

That's good then! Hopefully that'll be a nice bit of promo



I really enjoyed Trouble with Me - think it was Shine's b-side, and Sleepwalking is fantastic from Greatest Day - should of been on The circus itself

Posted by: milly 28th December 2014, 06:08 PM

Sleepwalking and Trouble With Me are amongst my favorites.
I dare to say I love some of their less known songs more than the released singles.


III is holding up well. #5 in the official chart. I'm curious about the sales.

Posted by: milly 28th December 2014, 06:24 PM

I don't get why These Days is only at 8 this week It's been top 6 on Itunes and Amazon all week long. Surely streaming couldn't have made that much of a difference?

Posted by: jay727 28th December 2014, 07:16 PM

It's still probably going to be about 30k which is great! The flood has 6 weeks
In the top 10, these days is on 5 at the moment.

Sales should be about 30k again which is great!

Probably because of the gift card effect. Songs like all about that bass have had multiple versions that when combined put them in the top 10, where they may be sitting outside of it as individual versions

Posted by: dylandog 28th December 2014, 07:29 PM

A good position for These Days in my opinion. If sales hold up well and Get Ready For It is released in early Jan then they could have two singles in the Top 40. I thought that lll would be higher and make top 3 this week. Olly Murs album seems to be holding up very well and I think he benefitted from the TV special in the lead up to Christmas.

At this point sales are more important that chart position as it's unlikely they'll go back to Number 1. Interested to know their sales for this week and how close they were to the top 3. I predicted that they would struggle to reach sales of 500,000 - 600,000 but I really hope I'm proved wrong. Amazing to think that their last 3 albums all reached sales of over 2 million and this album will probably not reach any where near a million - it deserves so much more.

Posted by: jay727 29th December 2014, 12:59 AM

These Days sold 44,899 last week (total 238,619)

III sold 76,497 (total 379,062)

I had hoped for III to go over 400,000 this week, but 380,000 in 4 weeks is impressive in anyone's books.

Really pleased with These Days' sales. Officially Silver now and will hopefully approach 400,000 in the next few weeks judging by how well it is holding up in the top 10

Posted by: Aphrodite 30th December 2014, 01:39 AM

These Days is still holding on well in the iTunes top 10 this week so hopefully another 25,000 sales minimum this week. I really hope the album can have a steady chart run, album sales will completely dive now the Christmas rush is over and it may get lost in the madness of new year sales, hopefully three will get a price reduction like other albums such as Sam Smith as it would help sales.

In my local hmv/xtra vision here in Ireland three is currently on sale at full price €12.99 while Sam Smith, Taylor Swift, Olly Murs are all €9. Ed Sheeran is also on full price like Take That but I do think a price reduction would do no harm at all.

Posted by: milly 31st December 2014, 03:37 PM

Is it at midnight that TT's contract with Google Play expires and the album will be available for streaming on Spotify and so on? I'm hoping that will help with the chart position.

Posted by: Aphrodite 31st December 2014, 08:46 PM

Wouldn't have a clue,sorry.,its the first I heard of it.

Posted by: milly 31st December 2014, 10:34 PM

The article states that the exclusiveness with Google Play was an one month deal : http://www.musicweek.com/news/read/google-play-scores-one-month-take-that-streaming-exclusive/060215

Posted by: milly 1st January 2015, 08:43 AM

It seems like a lot of albums are benefitting from the discount. It wouldn't be a bad idea if TT had one too, although, to me, it's a bit unfair that the albums sales are boosted by lowering the price. An album should sell for itself, not because it's cheap.

Posted by: Kath 1st January 2015, 01:16 PM

Its not as if TT haven't benefited from this in the past though.

Besides - I don't know why people get so het up about album sales - they mean absolutely nothing in the bigger scale of things.

Posted by: milly 1st January 2015, 02:14 PM

I know all artists benefit from discounts at one point or another. I just don't think it's fair that this happens less than an year after release. The likes of Olly, Ella, John Legend and many many others could have waited a bit more before lowering the price. 4-5 pounds for an album sounds like a desperate attempt at staying up in the charts. I'd have said the same were TT in their place.

I thought album sales were the most important - isn't that what keeps artists signed to labels?

Posted by: gooddelta 1st January 2015, 04:01 PM

III was available for 99p one day last week on Google Play.

Posted by: milly 1st January 2015, 04:43 PM

I know, but that was for one day only and I'm positive most of the fans weren't even aware.

Posted by: jay727 2nd January 2015, 03:48 PM

These Days #8 in the Mids.
III drops to #12 - disappointed with that

Posted by: milly 2nd January 2015, 04:21 PM

I'm a bit disappointed too. I was hoping it would be in top 10 still, but I guess it's not much of a surprise. A lot of albums have climbed up thanks to the discounts. Maybe next week III will be back in top 10.

Posted by: dylandog 2nd January 2015, 07:00 PM

There's no doubt that' a poor outcome. If the album can't hold up now it will drop significantly in January and sales will be really low. I still can't get my head around the low sales for this album. The sales drop from previous albums is massive and they've undoubtedly seen a real drop in their popularity.

I've said it before but it's such a shame because the album deserves much, much better. Who would have predicted that Olly Murs and One Direction would out sell Take That through December. and older albums such as Sam Smith and Ed Sheeran would see such a resurgence in their sales. Although the loss of Jason will have been factored it I don't think the record company would have predicted such a significant drop in their album sales and I don't think the lads will have either. I think they would have predicted around the million mark given the general drop in album sales, loss of Jay etc, but no way would they have expected sales struggling to reach 500,000.

It's been mentioned they may release another album next December. If their sales drop further next year I think they'll consider their future and finish with a final tour in 2016/17 and a release of a greatest hits album.

Posted by: jay727 2nd January 2015, 09:00 PM

I can't imagine that theyll release another so soon. Get Ready For It is now massive for this album. It really needs to resonate, but I'm not sure it will. Maybe album sales will rebound around the time of the tour.

Think it's almost a given now that the next record they release will be a Greatest Hits.

Posted by: dylandog 2nd January 2015, 09:40 PM

It's a pity that Get Ready for It has to be the second single but I guess it's tied in with the film. To generate sales they needed to release one of the stronger songs off the album - so I think they've missed an opportunity to kick start the album again. I am surprised that These Days has held up so well - although sales are still significantly lower than The Flood.

I personally wouldn't have chosen These Days as the lead single. Although catchy it is a throw away type of song - not sure which song I would have released first but it wouldn't have been that one.

At this point it looks like sales of SISYL are going to be stronger than lll - who would have predicted that a year ago!!

Posted by: nirvanamusic 2nd January 2015, 10:39 PM

When they release a Greatest Hits I hope it's 2006 - present and not the idea of a best of as that can always come later afterwards. They might be thinking of a best of as they would like Jason and Robbie involved for a potential tour but it'd be nice to have the second chapter represented in a greatest hits.

It's difficult to think what could be the third single from the album and I wonder if they will still do promo/tour in Europe.

Posted by: Bond Bug 2nd January 2015, 11:15 PM

The overwhelming majority of people who bought recent Take That albums are not buying this one. Perceptions of the band has obviously changed for the worse. If there is a next time, after another greatest hits, they will need to come up with something more exciting that will surprise the audience. III is good, but not good enough to overcome the damage to the perception of Take That.

Posted by: jay727 2nd January 2015, 11:35 PM

I think they played it too cautious. They should have done the likes of an audience with, or a documentary. I think they wanted to stay out of range of any media backlash.

These Days was a great lead though. It got widely positive reviews and became a number 1. If it hadn't the media might have tried to call the comeback a flop. Truth is that although they haven't sold crazy amounts, they still have a number 1 single and platinum album in 4 weeks. I am disappointed the album hasn't done better but it could have done worse!

Posted by: dylandog 2nd January 2015, 11:45 PM

Bond Bug your right, there must have been a sea change in people' s perception of Take That. Gone for 10 years but they returned will excellent sales that continued on for the next two albums and a seemingly loyal fan base. Yes, album sales have fallen and yes Jay's leaving will have had an impact, but it's difficult not to conclude that the financial issue has seriously impacted on their sales and the public's perception of them. I would have bet anything that they would have secured 1 million plus sales in the UK with this album as their 90's albums sold around the million mark.

Gary profile in particular has taken a bashing and their mistake was not addressing the issue immediately. They waited far too long to deal with it and the media had a field day and drag the issue up even now. We will never know the true damage caused by the tax matter, but it's fair to say that there has to be some explanation for the considerable drop in their sales and I simply don't believe it's down to their music output alone.

Posted by: Aphrodite 3rd January 2015, 04:15 AM

Obviously the perception has changed in some way or people just are not as interested in them as they were. They still managed a great 10 year run since their return and as far as reunions go Take That really pulled it off. Who ever would have thought when we first heard of the release of Never Forget: The Ultimate Collection and the tv interview what was to come. I think most expected the album is do half well, tour sell out on nostalgia grounds (Steps!! style) and then done and dusted. But no, we got such a new catalogue of material, more studio albums than they released first time round,2 excellent and successful live albums, huge selling studio albums, tours, singles and dvds and while the bubble may have burst they have a decent selling number 1 single and an album that is already platinum and has legs left in it yet. I don't think the boys will be too worried.

Posted by: dylandog 3rd January 2015, 10:37 AM

It's true they never could have envisaged the success which followed the documentary, but having happened I think they've loved being the most popular UK act, until Adele came along! They are rightly proud of what they have achieved but I do think that beneath all the smiles they will be disappointed and somewhat surprised with their sales figures for this album.

Their reunion worked where others hasn't because , like their music or not, they are talented, songwriting wise and performance wise. Not many people like NMS, quite rightly, but one thing he did was instill a terrific work ethic and this has stuck with them. Other 'bands' ... ID for example, didn't have to work for their success, it simply happened ( and this is evident to anyone who has seen them live) TT worked in clubs up and down the country to get their big break and Gary worked from a teenager. Consequently their performance skills are exceptional and they give all on stage. This stage craft has been a big factor in their success second time around.

At the end of the day if the songs are great their albums will benefit so I really hope that Mark and Gary have another song like RTW in them - at this stage I'm hanging on to the belief that somewhere there is that exceptional song to bring them back on track.

Posted by: milly 3rd January 2015, 02:34 PM

I might be the most optimistic one on this forum I'm not ready to write the boys off yet and I think they might surprise us soon.
The tax issue has, without a doubt, influenced the public's perception of them, but I think new fans can be gained and old fans can still be persuaded to change their mind.
I insist that the biggest problem this era has been the lack of promotion. If fans really stopped caring, they wouldn't be buying Gary's dvd in such big numbers. Since You Saw Him Last has been no 3 on Amazon since the release and even before that it had a good position.

I'm hoping that the 2nd single can create some buzz around the album and boost the sales. That + some solid promotion, like Since I Saw You Last benefitted from.
I really like Get Ready for It and I may be bold in saying this, but to me, it sounds like RTW no 2, if not better. But this is just personal preference.

Posted by: Kath 3rd January 2015, 11:32 PM

Whilst I agree that the tax issue won't make a jot of difference to the old/existing fans (with a few exceptions - myself and sis being two of them ) I disagree that the issue wouldn't be a bar to new fans - I doubt it would endear any new followers. TT are very fortunate with their faithful though - and it will see them through for the next 10 years or so - in much the same way that Cliff Richard fans ensure he has a massive following - and he's into his 70's now!

Posted by: dylandog 4th January 2015, 07:17 PM

These Days 8 in the chart - holding up well. Album down to 12- a poor show. It doesn't seem to have much momentum at all which is disappointing.

Does anyone know the sales figures for both? I'm guessing that album sales have plummeted as it's January.

Posted by: jay727 4th January 2015, 07:29 PM

Agreed, the album position is disappointing. Sales will probably be about 10k I would imagine.

These Days is doing very well. Approaching 300k now!

Posted by: Bond Bug 4th January 2015, 07:52 PM

I am confident they will have another Rule The World. Maybe it will be the lead single of their next Greatest Hits. I think they may be tempted to call it a day with this album. Gary Barlow has plenty of other opportunities with solo work and musicals. As they said on their first breakup, they'd want to end on top. But the pressure is on to write a killer song that will say farewell to Take That in style. I think they know what to do.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 4th January 2015, 08:03 PM

I would be interested to know how much they sold in the rest of Europe where they chart badly with single and album and if they will really tour there

Posted by: dylandog 4th January 2015, 08:33 PM

I'm guessing sales are low in Europe. They have said they'll tour but given sales, if they do I think it will be a very small one and in quite small venues , perhaps 3 or 4 dates at most.

Sorry for European TT fans but I would prefer they didn't tour Europe if crowds are poor and venues half full. If they do small venues it could also mean that they don't put on the UK show which will be a big production.

It's clear that Rob coming back four years ago hasn't helped them one bit and the success of Progress was obviously due to Rob and not down to any particular interest in TT as a four/three. As soon as Rob left again so did the European fans it seems

Posted by: Aphrodite 4th January 2015, 09:37 PM

These days is having a nice steady chart run and sales are building nicely. I had hoped the album would be top 10 this week so its disappointing, George Ezra sold 72,000 for number 1 so hopefully Take That will have sold a minimum of 10,000 which will bring sales very near to 400,000.

Posted by: Aphrodite 4th January 2015, 09:37 PM

These days is having a nice steady chart run and sales are building nicely. I had hoped the album would be top 10 this week so its disappointing, George Ezra sold 72,000 for number 1 so hopefully Take That will have sold a minimum of 10,000 which will bring sales very near to 400,000.

Posted by: milly 4th January 2015, 09:44 PM

Since when are European tours dependent on album sales? If that were the case, 90% of the artists wouldn't be touring most of the countries.
Even the most unknown bands can fill a 4000 seats venue in Romania; I'm pretty sure Take That wouldn't have a half full venue. One of my favorite artists is selling basically nothing here album-wise, but sold 2 nights in a row without the slightest problem and loved it so much that she returned to perform here last year. The same for many other singers.
There's just no need for us to buy music when we can get it for free. I only buy TT's albums off Amazon because I'm a hardcore fan and I like to have my collection.

As for the album chart position, it's only so low because the albums in top 10 weren't full price. Had III sold for 4-5 pounds as well, it would have probably been in top 5.

Posted by: dylandog 4th January 2015, 09:52 PM

Sorry Milly - thought that will their popularity dwindling in Europe it would be difficult for them to fill venues as I remember reading somewhere that they struggled to fill venues for their BW tour in Europe. I still think it would be quite sad if their venues are not full, however, the band may think that they want to thank fans and go ahead anyway. If as you say there wouldn't be a problem filling arenas in Romania, I hope you get a chance to see them.

Interested to know if TT have ever toured Romania. If so, when?

Posted by: milly 4th January 2015, 10:19 PM

They have never come to Romania, that's why I was hoping next year would be our chance to finally see them. For most of the fans here it's practically impossible to travel to UK to see them, so we're hanging onto our last hope right now. All this talk about this being their last album and not touring Europe anymore is really depressing for a nuttie like me
Artists don't usually have problems filling up venues here, especially international artists, because we regard such concerts as real treats and we get quite excited when they occur.

Posted by: Aphrodite 5th January 2015, 02:47 AM

Are concert tickets usually expensive in Romania??I really hope Take That tour there so you get to see them as they are just fantastic to see live.

Posted by: milly 5th January 2015, 05:46 AM

Yes, they're pretty expensive. It depends, of course, on the artist as well, but they can range from 75 euros to even 200 euros. That may not seem much in UK, but, in Romania, a normal person has around 200 euros salary per month, so a concert ticket is a luxury. TT's album was a luxury too That's why I said we get excited about concerts, because it's a challenge to save the money for a ticket and, when we do, we feel like we gave ourselves a real treat.

Posted by: jay727 5th January 2015, 11:14 AM

Sales weren't as bad as I was expecting:

These Days selling another 34,000 and III selling nearly 19,000

So I think These Days is on about 275,000 and III is at 398,000

Posted by: Aphrodite 5th January 2015, 12:17 PM

Sales much better than than I was expecting.

Posted by: jay727 5th January 2015, 06:14 PM

Good to see These Days is #31 this week in Germany, 5 weeks on the chart so far.

Posted by: nirvanamusic 5th January 2015, 06:34 PM

Yes finally top 40 which is great as top 40 has more of a presence just like here. Hopefully GRFI will get promo as hot on heels end of this month.

Album wise in Europe based on known certified certifications and excluding the UK it reads like this:

Greatest Hits: 915,000
Everything Changes: 850,000
Nobody Else: 850,000
Progress: 515,000
Beautiful World: 325,000
The Circus: 135,000
Never Forget: The Ultimate Collection: 45,000
Take That & Party: no minimum certified from other countries.

I think the album still has a chance to get to The Circus level maybe by the end of the singles.

Posted by: Aphrodite 6th January 2015, 06:12 PM

At least these days is starting to move in the right direction on the German charts, I hope its rise continues and that it can help generate album sales.

Posted by: pippa 7th January 2015, 02:17 PM

After my lovely winter break away i return! I am left disappointed in some way of the sales performance of three to date. I did believe its sales would be at least double what they currently stand. That said, it is a wonderful thing to be able to say that the album has sold 400,000 in five weeks which is disappointing, how many acts can say that.

In contrast, Coldplay and Paolo Nutini are also known as huge album sellers, from reading the year end sales both these albums have managed under 600,000 sales since their release. While there is no doubting a disconnection between the record buying public and Take That has occurred they are still achieving impressive success. Additionally, These Days has a had a great chart run to date and sales are building to very respectable numbers and lets not forget also topped the charts.

Things are starting to look positive in the German market too which is wonderful.

Posted by: pippa 7th January 2015, 04:35 PM

Wednesday Midweek Update:

These Days Number 16
Three Number 13

I did not foresee the sharp fall for These Days this week as it was top 10 until recently on itunes, streaming is going against it. Three holding up better than i expected, a 1 place drop is not bad considering many of the albums placed higher than it are selling at much cheaper prices.

Posted by: Bond Bug 7th January 2015, 08:48 PM

I remember going to a Gary Barlow concert after his second album. It was in Bournemouth. I was about a third of the way from the stage, and it was almost empty behind me. I looked around to calculate the turnout and it was less than 20%. It seemed very sad. His career seemed to be at an end. I never imagined that he would be back bigger than ever before with Take That and with a new solo career. But, no, we don't want Take That to look that sad!

Posted by: Aphrodite 7th January 2015, 09:19 PM

The 12 months 11 days era was just a disaster in so many ways so an empty venue is no surprise,huge shame as its a good album that I still enjoy,as I have said so many times before not having lie to me as the lead single was a catastropic mistake.Lie to me as the lead could have made the fortunes of that era so so different.

Three is higher than I thought it would this week,but,the price needs to drop as nearly all the albums about it are selling cheaper.I hope these days falls no further this week.

Posted by: dylandog 7th January 2015, 10:03 PM

When you think how the fortunes of Take That, and particularly Gary, have changed its amazing. I do remember buying Open Road but not 12 months, 11 days. I wasn't a big TT fan in those days and never went to any of their concerts. Many have said Gary's second album campaign was handled badly with poor single choices ( Take That don't seem to have learnt from this the second time around) and I have to say I don't even remember his second album being released . It goes to show how quickly the music public move on !

I do have an abiding memory of watching The Brits and hearing Rob's comments about TT/Gary and squirming in my seat and I also have a really vivid memory of Rob leaving his record company and shouting he was rich beyond his wildest dreams! The music industry is so fickle , as many have pointed out to have a 90's 'boy band' and solo 'boy band' members still topping the charts and selling out tours over 20 years later is quite remarkable.

Regarding lll - the record company should definitely reduce the price dramatically. At least it will give the album a chance to climb back up the charts and a fighting chance against other reduced albums.

Posted by: jay727 7th January 2015, 10:06 PM

Welcome back Pippa! Hope you had a nice break!



That's actually really sad. It must of been so surreal selling out 20 venues in the UK last year and playing to 40,000 people over 2 nights at the O2.



I think These Days will probably climb a spot before the week finishes.

Lie to Me is a great song, and if it did launch the album, who knows. Take That may never have reformed and Gary niht have experienced a Robbie-Angels resurrection.

I would like 12 months to one day re-peak...I can hope

Posted by: milly 8th January 2015, 07:31 AM

Glad to see I'm not the only one still enjoying 12M 11D. Even if Gary says it's not representing him, I still like it. Lie to Me is a little gem that could be a classic if the great public knew about it and Walk and Fast Car are still amongst my favorites. That album was never given a fair fighting chance. I'd love it if Gary decided one day to release a compilation of his solo work and released Lie to Me as a single.

As for III, the boys really need some more promo. I'd have thought they would have been invited on Alan Carr or Jonathan Ross by now.

Posted by: pippa 8th January 2015, 09:12 AM

12 Months 11 Days remains a very enjoyable album, and agreeing whole heartily that it never received a fair fighting chance. I do find it annoying how Gary sometimes distances himself from the album as i strongly feel it does represent him, the songs are not that different from any of his other solo work, or some of Take Thats. I too would love if released a best of style album and released Lie To Me as a single as i feel it could become a reasonable size hit.


Three certainly needs more promo, maybe they will do more promo and tie it in with the new single.

Posted by: jay727 8th January 2015, 11:17 AM

I think he disassociates himself more from that time period rather than the music on the album, as he has performed a few of the tracks in the last couple of years on tour.

They need Get Ready For It to be released soon and for them to blitz promo to get it high enough on iTunes for the casually buyer to notice. They need it to do well to give the album a shot in the arm

Posted by: pippa 8th January 2015, 12:34 PM

A blitz of promo most certainly is needed, but will it happen, i am not so sure. A successful second single could really push sales of the album so i would believe its important for them to work hard on promoting the new single.

Posted by: milly 8th January 2015, 01:29 PM

I think their 2nd single is too good for them to let it flop. I'm still not over the fact that the promotion of Face to Face was such a mess.
Get Ready for It and whatever the 3rd single is deserve proper promotion in order to become hits, not just buzz singles meant to boost the album sales.
To me, Get Ready For It sounds like a potential big hit, especially if it's coupled with the movie release.

Posted by: nirvanamusic 8th January 2015, 10:43 PM

Good thing in some small way is that III has re-peaked in Denmark at 23 this week much better than 56.

I think the other side of Christmas might help the album as outside the UK/Ireland countries won't think of TT as Christmas gifts and so now maybe some attention will come to it.

Posted by: Aphrodite 8th January 2015, 10:52 PM

Huge peak performance improvement in Denmark.

Posted by: mr_aly 9th January 2015, 12:32 AM

I honestly think Take That are doing fine, you have to remember that in this day and age a lot can change in the pop world in the space of 3 years (let alone the 4 years since they last released anything), I know sales are way down but to be at 400k and still selling is still quite an achievement. There are so many acts from that time period who were huge who would kill for that now, the big comeback was almost a decade ago and to still be going this strong is a pretty good achievement I'd say.

Posted by: gooddelta 9th January 2015, 08:32 AM

I'd not heard Lie To Me before. Just listened to it and it's without doubt a far better song than Stronger but Gary's public profile was so low in 1999 that I really doubt anything he'd released would have been a hit.

The charts were full of dance music, Eurocheese anthems, the dying tail end of Britpop and boybands so I can't imagine a string ballad by someone who was, sadly, at this point irrelevant at best and a media laughing stock at worst would have done very well

Posted by: gooddelta 9th January 2015, 08:37 AM

Agree with Aly about III as well, presumably if Robbie hadn't come back for Progress the follow up to The Circus may have sold around 1m-1.5m as the hype would have been a lot lower. And then the downward trajectory for III wouldn't have seemed so severe. Progress was a monster because of the fairytale ending of Robbie finally rejoining.

Posted by: pippa 9th January 2015, 10:15 AM

I never looked at it from this perspective before. Beautiful World had the comeback hype, the Circus had the hype of Take That been so huge again so it is likely the follow up would have not exceeded the Circus or possibly sold somewhat less in the same way the Circus sold a little less than Beautiful World. The hype of Robbie returning and adding the Robbie fans into the mix would have boosted the sales of Progress.

On the other hand, it could be argued the difference between Beautiful World and the Circus is minimal. The re-packaged or deluxe release of Beautiful World seen the album make a top 3 return on its release and to my understanding added over 300,000 extra sales to the original release. The Circus re-package was sold as the live album separately but sold over 700,000 so if those sales were added to the original the difference is small. That said, the sales of both albums in their own right are extremely impressive.

Posted by: dylandog 9th January 2015, 11:44 AM

The sales difference between BW and Circus is small, your right, Pippa. What is surprising if you think about it is the sales for Progress. If you factor in Robbie then the sales for it should actually have been stronger than they were.

Am I right in thinking that BW still has higher sales figures than Circus and Progress?

Posted by: jay727 9th January 2015, 01:47 PM

Yes BW is just shy of 3 million. Circus has sold 2.3 million and Progress 2.4 million

Good news about Denmark!

Posted by: milly 9th January 2015, 03:47 PM

I hope you listened to the live version he did on his tour last year. It's far more impressive than the album version.
And you can watch for him rubbing his legs on the chair to check if it's still there (courtesy of the dvd commentary).

Posted by: milly 9th January 2015, 03:49 PM

Wow, I had no idea BW had sold more than Progress. It's good news because BW is now my 2nd favorite, after III.

Posted by: gooddelta 9th January 2015, 04:57 PM

Beautiful World was an epic comeback album, took the sound they'd been building up to just prior to their 1996 breakup and built on it with the influences around at the time and modern production touches. The melodies and songwriting were so on point too. Plus it had a lot of variety - I bought it based on my love for Patience but was so impressed when I heard Shine for the first time, I didn't expect anything like that on the album. I'm pleased it's their bestseller as it's still their best. Progress for me is second best, it was so WTF (not as much as Progressed though, that was so bizarre) that it was genius.

I'll have a listen to the live version of Lie To Me later on, I'd listened to the album version earlier.

Posted by: elisabeth1973 9th January 2015, 08:53 PM

Progress different to the Circus sold a lot in other countries than the UK. But other countries do only count here if they shoe TT3 or TT4 success I have the impression. To celebrate a number 36 spot is ridiculous. Matter of factly without the chart position with the sales and critics III could be considered as a serious flop even in the UK. In the rest of Europe they sold not even 50,000 copies.
TT and Gary simply do not sell and the backslash in the UK is huge considering that they were away 4 years and everyone should be eager

Posted by: jay727 9th January 2015, 09:18 PM

If you say so...

We'd all like the album sales to be a million more, but taking everything into consideration, it's another successful chapter in the TT story and discography.