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BuzzJack Music Forum _ News and Politics _ Extinction Rebellion block access to newspapers

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 5 2020, 01:37 PM

Extinction Rebellion's actions have been on occasion controversial (e.g. last week when their Twitter account declared that they were not a socialist organisation, immediately earning the ire of all of Left Twitter but that's not the topic today hence spoiler tags).

This week they've done something much more fun to talk about. Physically stopping the presses that print Murdoch papers (Sun, Times, and for good measure, the Telegraph and Mail as well) from making it to distribution.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-54038591

Is this a good and popular action, targeting papers that downplay the climate crisis and therefore play a huge part in burying it as an issue - making them culpable for planet destruction? Or is this an attack on the free press?

(guess which line the party Murdoch put into power in the UK has taken)

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 5 2020, 01:46 PM

I have zero issue with it, just getting that out the way.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 5 2020, 02:17 PM

FINALLY an extinction rebellion action I can get behind

Posted by: Andrew. Sep 5 2020, 02:24 PM

I'm not gonna complain at the Murdoch press getting restricted for one day only. If even a few people decide to permanently stop buying the Scum etc then it'll have been worth it.

Although on the whole I think Extinction Rebellion do more harm than good to the climate movement.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 6 2020, 04:43 AM

QUOTE(Andrew. @ Sep 5 2020, 02:24 PM) *
I'm not gonna complain at the Murdoch press getting restricted for one day only. If even a few people decide to permanently stop buying the Scum etc then it'll have been worth it.

Although on the whole I think Extinction Rebellion do more harm than good to the climate movement.


Their actions over the past year have been on the whole less than effective (not that it's been an easy year for protests), though if they do more actions like this, which are clearly savvy enough to be supported by at least those not ensnared by the cult driven by these newspapers, then that will be better.

They've chosen a good target. They won't keep it up, but imagine if all of the UK was as free of this lot as Liverpool are of The Sun. I can only think of improvements.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 6 2020, 04:19 PM

Newspapers? I vaguely remember them, are people still buying them?

They'd have more impact blocking the manufacturers of VHS and Fax machines.

XR lost my support when they started jumping on tube trains outside Canning Town - literal green PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION - disrupting working class people, many of which were probably trying to get home after a night shift.

Posted by: Chez Wombat Sep 6 2020, 04:37 PM

I can get behind this one more than that utterly ridiculous delay of public transport a while back, especially as the only one it really hurts is Murdoch who I'm certainly not crying over.

Problem is, I feel it will again get twisted and get every single newspaper here (who clearly have a lot of mates high up) against them which will again, botch their overall message if their seen as an 'organised crime' group. I do support what they're going for here, but I have to agree their methods do more harm to the cause than good.

Posted by: Andrew. Sep 6 2020, 04:49 PM

I do hope this kind of thing isn't a long term strategy. As I said, restricting the Sun is fine for one day or a weekend but any more than that and it's completely playing in to the Centre/Right's hands regarding free speech.

Posted by: Klaus Sep 6 2020, 08:53 PM

Yeah, especially after that public transport protest, I have no respect for them. They have no idea what they’re doing, and every action they take is completely counter-productive.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 7 2020, 04:20 AM

You know, I'd find it pretty easy to forgive an organisation whose top stated aim is 'stopping us all dying', especially if it were a decentralised organisation without much control over the actions of its members, and which denounced the individuals responsible for that specific faux-pas.

Especially if they'd literally just shown that their action had smartened up in the intervening year by directly targeting those actually causing the problems by downplaying the crisis. And it's not inconveniencing any members of the public, and as the state of British newspapers is so dire, it's surely one of the most popular targets they could have chosen. This is exactly the sort of action they should be taking and the only negative press they'll get out of it is because they're targeting the literal press.

Are they the most effective organisation? Certainly not. But they're a very useful existing structure for direct action to take place, and sometimes that is very much needed. I'd love to hear what any of you think would be a more effective way to tackle the problem that climate change narrative is easily downplayed by the media.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 7 2020, 05:33 AM

So because they are taking ANY action, no matter how ineffective or counterproductive, we're supposed to just support them because we've not done anything different?

I do not think you win arguments simply by silencing your opponent, and blocking the Murdoch press (though I fully support it) plays exactly into the hands of those they are trying to defeat. I said exactly the same thing for those involved with the defacing of Churchill's statue, as well as the cenotaph during the Black Lives Matter protests, and this way of putting your argument across ties in with the recent trend of no-platforming as a way of effectively only allowing free speech for people whose opinion you agree with. It plays entirely into the false narritive peddled by those on the right that well-meaning liberals are against free speech and gives the opponents an easy way to completely deflect the original purpose of the protest, and I'd argue is actually worse than not doing anything in the first place. I mean newspapers are hardly the most dominant form of media anymore and likely haven't been since the early-mid 2000s with readerships dwindling and basically nobody under the age of 30 ever having bought one. I mean most people get their news from social media..

I think... building a movement around a pre-existing political party that commits fully to tackling climate change, supports those businesses and industries that act and make every effort to become green, and boycotts those that don't has a lot more chance of succeeding.

If you want to win people round, and that I'd suggest is more effective than just highlighting your cause, then XR need to stop being so hostile, so condescending, and be understanding of those who they don't agree with in order to bring them on side. Right now they're coming across as a load of middle-class entitled brats who haven't done a days work in their life and think they know better than everyone else.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 7 2020, 08:11 AM

I would indeed wholly prefer it if we could trust Labour (as the only relevant choice) to create a more palatable green program.

However while XR exists, we should be able to use it, as an organisation with a low barrier to entry, to create the sort of protests and visible mood that will indicate to those politicians making up policy in Labour that a green policy is something that cannot be ignored. I think we have to be able to judge them on the merit of each individual action rather than dismissing them because of past misjudgements. And this action is far more preferable than other actions they've done in the past.

Indeed I haven't seen all that much pushback from the media outside of the initial free speech salvo and a protestation from the Sun that they actually had an environment-positive article in the edition that was delayed, I think if they push the anti-XR narrative too hard on this one, it will become too obvious to their readers. Optics is definitely a good point and one I'm constantly concerned with, though at this point the most we can do against big media without them twisting the narrative against us is complain really loudly on Twitter and even then sometimes...

I definitely take your point about newspapers not being so dominant, I wonder if that was deliberate to avoid inconvenience? Not that I think XR have hackers in their ranks ready to go but while hacking websites would have been far more effective, it would have got so so much more 'stop protesting you're inconveniencing our lives' pushback and at that point I'd actually say the free speech warriors had a valid argument. This way it's more of a symbolic siding against them.

Oh and definitely several elements of XR are entitled and out of touch, I do think climate protesters need to be working with other activists and try not to come across so hard on one issue. Outreach to get on media programmes, make the 'your profits will be in danger if the environment collapses' arguments as well as criticise media conduct.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 8 2020, 12:16 PM

I didn't specifically mean the Labour Party, the Green Party could quite easily become the replacement for them as the progressive left in the next decade such as the SPD have been overtaken by the Green Party in Germany for example.

If they wanted to target the media they'd have been better going for the BBC - already a target of hate for the right - who are supposed to be a public service broadcaster but have an absolutely shocking record on political journalism (Laura Kuenssberg spreading fake news during the 2019 GE for example) and aren't much better on scientific journalism. They always put some nutjob climate denier up against climate scientists on discussions and debates as though this is some sort of balance, when there is a rare thing in science, a consensus that man-made climate change is happening and the opposite opinion is just crank nonsense. This isn't America, the general public do actually have some awareness of what's going on!! They are also the bottom feeders of what is so-called journalism these days with their constant use of 'churnalism' - meaning much of their output is led by the papers, owned by the billionaires who therefore set the agenda.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 20 2021, 01:48 PM

Any chance of there being a different group rather than XR taking on the climate change debate?

I applaud the message but it's really offputting the actions they're taking and it's not bringing people on board.

Posted by: Smint Sep 20 2021, 05:11 PM

I'm not sure that stopping people going to hospital for life saving operations is a good look no. That said protests have to be disruptive in order for them to work - the People's Vote brought in the numbers but it did nothing. I liked the one stopping the Mail and other newspapers publishing their filth for a day. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Chez Wombat Sep 20 2021, 05:27 PM

Yeah, they're not perfect, but frankly, this isn't something we can just shrug off. For people to realise what a crisis we're in, it has to make a big impact, and it's not like the government or big corporations are gonna do anything in response to harmless placards and signs. People won't like being disrupted, but it should give a hint of the sort of things that need to change.

The tube hold up thing years back was undeniably woefully misguided and put me off them, but as the crisis was worsened they seem to be making better moves and picking better targets as there is literally no one else doing what they're doing, it's hard to write them off entirely.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 20 2021, 05:53 PM

God I loathe XR

They are fond of blocking the street outside the transport ministry and the energy ministry here (either side of a small park on the same street and they then camp out in said park) and I wonder how many people die as a direct result of their inconvenience. The road is an access route to two of the cities largest hospitals, they tie up hundreds of cops. And for what. As if the CDU gives a f*** about what XR has to say.


Friday saw Greenpeace, an organisation just as bad, scale central station and unfurl a giant banner. Harmless you’d think. Coz they scalled a tall building we had half a dozen cop vans, a climbing apparatus from the fireys, a fire engine and an ambulance all sat there for HOURS until they came down. As if we can afford to tie up vital life saving emergency services for an entire morning for an ego trip

QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 8 2020, 02:16 PM) *
I didn't specifically mean the Labour Party, the Green Party could quite easily become the replacement for them as the progressive left in the next decade such as the SPD have been overtaken by the Green Party in Germany for example.

It’s amazing what 12 months can do!

Posted by: Rooney Sep 20 2021, 08:04 PM

QUOTE(Smint @ Sep 20 2021, 06:11 PM) *
I'm not sure that stopping people going to hospital for life saving operations is a good look no. That said protests have to be disruptive in order for them to work - the People's Vote brought in the numbers but it did nothing. I liked the one stopping the Mail and other newspapers publishing their filth for a day. biggrin.gif


Are they working though? From the outside it just turns the outside off from their cause. BuzzJack is super liberal & left-wing, but I think you'd find lots of people here agree climate change is an issue, but don't agree with that XR are doing. I'm all for one's that don't disrupt people's daily lives, the tube stuff was ridiculous and sitting in the middle of the M25 is also frigging stupid.

Posted by: Smint Sep 20 2021, 08:17 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Sep 20 2021, 09:04 PM) *
Are they working though? From the outside it just turns the outside off from their cause. BuzzJack is super liberal & left-wing, but I think you'd find lots of people here agree climate change is an issue, but don't agree with that XR are doing. I'm all for one's that don't disrupt people's daily lives, the tube stuff was ridiculous and sitting in the middle of the M25 is also frigging stupid.


I'm not saying I have the answers but Stonewall (LGBT rights), Sufragettes (Vote for Women) and various black power movements used violence and disruption and helped changed society People's votes and the anti Iraq War demos drew unprecedented numbers to the streets but were peaceful and 100% ignored. Peaceful protests and demonstrations rarely change anything.
Whether XR works or not is open to debate though. I'd like to think they keep the issue in the public eye. I met someone who was heavily involved and said that he wished he didn't have to do it but there was no other option for his conscious. Personally I don't agree with holding up traffic as that could prevent someone from getting the surgery they need so not one of their better ones.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 20 2021, 08:59 PM

QUOTE(Smint @ Sep 20 2021, 09:17 PM) *
I'm not saying I have the answers but Stonewall (LGBT rights), Sufragettes (Vote for Women) and various black power movements used violence and disruption and helped changed society People's votes and the anti Iraq War demos drew unprecedented numbers to the streets but were peaceful and 100% ignored. Peaceful protests and demonstrations rarely change anything.
Whether XR works or not is open to debate though. I'd like to think they keep the issue in the public eye. I met someone who was heavily involved and said that he wished he didn't have to do it but there was no other option for his conscious. Personally I don't agree with holding up traffic as that could prevent someone from getting the surgery they need so not one of their better ones.


While I understand that point, I just often fear there is something off about white-middle class kids and adults trying to tell us about climate change. I think some of the protests just miss the mark, even the manure stunt which was funny, who cleaned that up? Not the papers. While they can't get any worse than the Tube stunt, I just feel that particular stunt lost the public and now they need to change tact. Just feel I have more sympathy with some poor sod whose not going to be able to get to work to put food on the table, rather than the protestors themselves.

Posted by: Smint Sep 21 2021, 09:35 AM

Well whether it's "white-middle class kids" (not forgetting that the younger generation are the ones who have to deal with this crisis, not so much the boomers) somebody needs to do something. If the public then fail to take it seriously, it's their futures they are screwing up. Like you I question some of their methods but not their motives. Like so many other things it becomes part of the culture war with the Murdoch press demonising them whilst they are in cohorts with the fossil fuel industry.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 21 2021, 11:24 AM

I agree with the aims and motives behind what they're doing but massively disagree about the way they are carrying it out. Sure, they did raise significant public awareness in 2019 but I think they squandered much of that with their ridiculous stunt in October on the tube train at Canning Town.

I can't agree with you when you say protest ALWAYS has to be violent and disruptive to provoke change. Thích Quảng Đức's self-immolation was not necessarily violent and disruptive but it was a powerful statement, and eventually did provoke change. Blocking a load of people going about their daily lives, many of which are probably not exactly thrilled to be having to drive on the M25 in the first place, is hardly going to win them over by being massively inconvenienced. Why can't they target the rich bastards like those with private jets or massively polluting luxury yachts? I'd be right behind that.

Posted by: Iz 💀 Sep 22 2021, 03:55 AM

QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 21 2021, 11:24 AM) *
I agree with the aims and motives behind what they're doing but massively disagree about the way they are carrying it out. Sure, they did raise significant public awareness in 2019 but I think they squandered much of that with their ridiculous stunt in October on the tube train at Canning Town.

I can't agree with you when you say protest ALWAYS has to be violent and disruptive to provoke change. Thích Quảng Đức's self-immolation was not necessarily violent and disruptive but it was a powerful statement, and eventually did provoke change. Blocking a load of people going about their daily lives, many of which are probably not exactly thrilled to be having to drive on the M25 in the first place, is hardly going to win them over by being massively inconvenienced. Why can't they target the rich bastards like those with private jets or massively polluting luxury yachts? I'd be right behind that.


The problem is two-fold, though. First, that eventually everyone will be massively inconvenienced far more so than whatever this lot are doing if courses are not reversed, which is the message that should be got across. Second, it's a lot harder to target rich people's property, if activists do manage to get close, a hard ask in itself, they will find a way to make them look like criminals. They should be doing it, but it comes with a lot more risk.

I have concerns about XR's activity, far more so than any one event they've done they've shown a pattern of appearing like activists with little else to do, which is what I think makes them truly easier to dismiss, if the perception is that they're middle-class kids or whatever, probably not true, but if the media finds an individual XR activist they will find a trust fund kid or a well-meaning housewife of a oil company's accountant in order that they can claim hypocrisy, laziness etc.

It is broadly right that every single successful protest movement in history had people standing in their way while appearing like they support it, saying that they agree with the aims and motives but not the methods, not what I'm saying you're doing because I know your general views on the subject - even successful peaceful protests had that thrown at them. But it also goes doubly for violent and disruptive groups - and there where the alternative is more violence or more disruption in the future that will hurt the people the protests are aiming to protect, then I have to agree it is justified. I can very easily see a future where some great climactic tragedy happens in the next 15 years (most likely, mass migration from now uninhabitable equatorial countries and something like a huge refugee drowning scandal) and it will be true that we should have done more and it could have been avoided.

I do think XR need to be working with other, allied groups, green charities, Corbyn's Peace and Justice project and other left-wing groups that have activist credentials, business groups, in an attempt to push through climate action, have it taken seriously and not such a magnet for brain-dead right-wing morons to be laughing at while the world hurtles towards everyone's graves. They've not been as good as they could have been. But we do need groups like them until we're on course to keep the planet habitable over the next century.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 2 2021, 04:07 PM

FINALLY - something I can actually get on board with.


Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 2 2021, 05:31 PM

Saaaaaaaaame. Finally a worthwhile thing to target. If only they’d started there instead of targeting the tube

Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 27 2021, 09:55 PM

Don't enjoy the tactics of Insulate Britain however I am very much enjoying this clip - Cameron from Insulate Britain calmly disarming Mike 'Gammon' Graham's BS. *.*




PS- How come in the budget the government thinks it's a good idea to reduce the tax on (arguably pointless for a country the size of the UK) domestic flights the week before they lead COP26 and try to lecture the rest of the world to take serious action on climate change. The absolute state of this government.

Posted by: Rooney Oct 27 2021, 11:29 PM

QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 27 2021, 10:55 PM) *
Don't enjoy the tactics of Insulate Britain however I am very much enjoying this clip - Cameron from Insulate Britain calmly disarming Mike 'Gammon' Graham's BS. *.*


PS- How come in the budget the government thinks it's a good idea to reduce the tax on (arguably pointless for a country the size of the UK) domestic flights the week before they lead COP26 and try to lecture the rest of the world to take serious action on climate change. The absolute state of this government.


You can tell the interviewer had a pre-determined script to try and make Cameron look like an idiot. No surprise he managed to come across as a complete tool. The silence is absolutely golden!

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