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 The UK and transphobia |
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 7th August 2021, 11:27 AM
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#1
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 BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 February 2021
Posts: 3,556 User: 124,514 
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Is anyone else worried about just how transphobic the UK is getting? I follow Owen Jones, the left wing Guardian journalist who was beaten up by a far right thug and he seems to be in a huge twitter war against the likes of Douglas Murray who claim he is trying to silence women on the issue of whether trans women should have rights. His writings about it here
https://owenjones84.medium.com/the-lies-of-...all-2780ad5f908 Week after week our newspapers (including prominently The Times which is generally regarded as one of the better right wing rags) publish relentless anti trans columns with virtually no actual trans voices or trans supporting voices in return. The Government also deliberately stalls on gender self ID and healthcare for trans people with insufferably long waiting lists which effectively means going private or no treatment Although transphobia exists worldwide, it seems to be the worst in the UK with it being compared with the US Republican right. Why can't the right wing of this country live and let live instead of dividing and demonising minorities? I'm cis myself but hear it's extremely unsafe for many trans people with their mental health being affected. People say that the UK is one of the most tolerant societies in existence but we all know it's bullshit (apart from the youth who consistently have a progressive outlook). Not much different to the level of Poland and Hungary. Interested to hear anyone else's opinions on here. |
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7th August 2021, 11:52 AM
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,420 User: 12,929                |
Yes. Absolutely. I follow Owen as well, and a number of other political figures who make constant pushbacks against this sort of thing, as well as a number of trans people, so I see this all the time, and Britain really has a bad reputation among developed countries for this sort of thing.
It's been shown that transphobia is a wedge issue for moving people with centre or even centre-left opinions on other issues into supporting traditionalist, right-wing rhetoric, and that really makes it bad. They're able to because of this entirely false and manipulative framing of the issue as one of women's rights. Always the thing to remember is that trans rights are in effect the front-line of social issues, if they are pushed back, then gay rights, women's rights, whatever else are next. On a personal level it does upset me, I want a society where all are free to be whatever they want, the UK does not meet that currently, I mean, if I tried saying I'm genderfluid in public (which I am more and more strongly considering myself to be), I'd certainly get a mixed reaction depending on what part of society it was when it really is not anyone's business but one's own. |
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7th August 2021, 11:56 AM
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#3
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,151 User: 5,138
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I have to admit as a white straight male my understanding of the issue is pretty ignorant but I generally think people should be allowed to do what they want as long as it doesn’t effect others so if they are being discriminated against I will automatically be on their side if that makes sense.
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7th August 2021, 12:26 PM
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#4
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,170 User: 7,561
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I went to see Owen live in May 2015 after the frankly depressing 2015 General Election, it was the week that Ireland finally legalised gay marriage IIRC. Anyway he has spoken out really well on this and has challenged a lot of the false narratives that Iz mentions.
I hate the whole 'divide and conquer' approach that has been taken to incite hatred and split those progressives who traditionally support women's rights etc and are led to see trans rights as some kind of threat to this. The British press are absolutely behind much of the blame for this and we've seen as a result a huge increase in transphobic hate crime in 5 years. I think part of the problem is also social media and how some minorities or parts of society are seen as 'fair game' for character assassinations and generalisation - see also: GRT communities. We have tended also to build an online society and media that constantly strives for attention and accesses this by rewarding controversial, false and provocative views; this was covered really well in far better ways than I could explain in the Netlfix documentary The Social Dilemma. I was watching an old documentary from 1998 the other day that followed people around in their daily lives, and it featured a transgender woman - it wasn't the first thing mentioned about her and it wasn't a major talking point. The viewer empathised with her and she came across well as a likable person. It makes me feel like we're going backwards rather than forwards in terms of tolerance and acceptance. Edit- Douglas Murray is a CUNT. |
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7th August 2021, 02:55 PM
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#5
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,603 User: 177
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QUOTE(steve201 @ Aug 7 2021, 12:56 PM)  I have to admit as a white straight male my understanding of the issue is pretty ignorant but I generally think people should be allowed to do what they want as long as it doesn’t effect others so if they are being discriminated against I will automatically be on their side if that makes sense. You don’t have to remain ignorant on the issue because you’re a straight white male. You seem tolerant and accepting generally, so why not educate yourself on the issue? Unfortunately, I have very recently come to the realisation that my parents, in particular my mother, are pretty transphobic. Just one of the home truths I’ve discovered over the course of this pandemic. My dad admits ignorance but uses that as a reason why he shouldn’t discuss it-not exactly trying to better himself. My mum is stuck on how women’s rights are affected and so on. Really sucks. My sister had a situation at work where she could see an issue involving transphobia (I can’t go into details here) and she almost asked my parents for advice on how to deal with it but luckily she care to me first. |
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7th August 2021, 07:05 PM
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#6
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
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What I find especially disturbing is how much journalists in the British press keep forcing a narrative that doesn’t really exist — yet. |
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7th August 2021, 08:28 PM
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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I think we’ve imported a dangerous culture war and this is just the start of a potentially dangerous path that will target the LGBT community as a whole. They’re trying to divide and conquer us and far too many of us are letting them
The UK does have a huge e-TERF problem and that is seeping through into the Media and thus into the Mainstream. They get platformed and emboldened by this and the snowball is rolling down that hill. Gender self ID in Scotland has become a hugely toxic debate but primarily online. I don’t think it quite cuts through to being an issue that most people see the same way as the eTERFs make out. But the likes of that unionist cow JK Terfling and her nationalist counterpart (with a penchant for threatening defamation suits so I will not name this particular SNP MP we all hoped was f***ing off to the Alba Party when they went on „leave“ at a very convenient time but sadly came back although we did get them off our front bench. I’m quite sure y’all know who I’m talking about) gives it high profile backing and you end up with people getting funnelled into TERFdom like how the YouTube algorithm has an uncanny ability to radicalise lonely white boys into actual Nazis. |
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7th August 2021, 09:07 PM
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 The owls are not what they seem
Pronouns: He/him
Joined: 11 July 2009 Posts: 37,127 User: 9,232
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Sadly, it does seem to be a key part of this ongoing culture war and divisions we have going on. Media portrayal has historically never been particularly friendly towards trans people (just look at how many villains in films and TV were trans people or men impersonating women in the past, it's worrying) and there's still a long way to go and it doesn't help that prolific and influential names like JK Rowling and Graham Linehan have shown pretty clear transphobia recently, and then there's the continuous problem of constructive discourse leading to 'cancelling' and 'backlash' getting the most publicity and taking away from the issue at hand.
I just wish for once everyone would take a step back and see that the vast majority of trans people just want to be happy and respecting and understanding their wishes and gender dysphoria is the best we can do, rather than implying that this means sex isn't real or that woman are being victimised or related bullshit. If these non-issues continue to be emphasised over basic trans rights, we're never gonna make any progress as all people will see is a war to take a side with. |
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8th August 2021, 04:08 AM
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 there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,144 User: 22,895 
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I find it very uncomfortable. I think it's being used as a wedge issue.
I think what a lot of younger and more sheltered people today don't realise is that this seriously is a step backwards. My dad worked with a trans guy in the 90s and no-one had an issue with it apart from people who were already actively bigoted. Homophobes have jumped on trans people as soon as it became socially unacceptable to be homophobic and have stirred the narrative that trans people were something new and a threatening trend. Transition medically has been around for decades and socially for probably all of human history. As for JK Rowling, projection much? She's really shown her ass to be a hateful person. Let's not even get into the fact that she writes under a male pseudonym and has had plastic surgery out the wazoo to make herself look more traditionally feminine beauty standards. What I will say is that I think a lot of people in the UK do innately accept trans people and differences out of politeness until the media stirs them into hate and prejudice by connecting things that don't naturally connect. Does anyone remember the story about a drag queen working in schools with kids that was fine with the local community until the media ran a piece implying that the queen in question was taking an adult-oriented burlesque act into schools, which wasn't the case at all. |
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8th August 2021, 05:43 AM
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#10
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,420 User: 12,929 |
QUOTE(J00prstar @ Aug 8 2021, 04:08 AM) As for JK Rowling, projection much? She's really shown her ass to be a hateful person. Let's not even get into the fact that she writes under a male pseudonym and has had plastic surgery out the wazoo to make herself look more traditionally feminine beauty standards. This has always been incredibly dodgy to me since discovering the pseudonym shares a name with this delightful fellow who worked with conversion therapy. I think she's been in deep for a long while and has found a way to let her bigotry slip more regularly with her more recent callouts. But all that aside I find it really interesting how while a "Gender Critical" woman is easy to spot (always has something along the lines of 'sex is real' or 'supporting real women' in their online bio and talks about NOTHING ELSE, brainworm-obsessed people), those stats do indicate transphobia is more prevalent among males and I think you do see it a bit more casually with men, who as ever are generally less progressive and more bigoted than women. A fun recent thing that highlights their absurdities was how TERFs were all seething over Laurel Hubbard participating in Olympic women's weightlifting because 'she has a genetic advantage being born male, this will push women out of their own sport', and then when she failed to register a single lift effortlessly pivoted to 'she's taking the place of women who deserve it more' without a hint of self-awareness. As to why it is coming up more, I think that trans people are becoming more visible, which is good, but conservative pushback is going to become more visible as a reaction, which is not, but reactionaries are sadly a constant of society. |
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25th August 2021, 04:25 PM
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#11
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471
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"An important part of our responsibility is to ensure we remain impartial and independent at all times. Our commitment to supporting the rights and freedoms of LGBTQ+ people is as strong as ever", says the media regulator disassociating itself with an LGBTQ+ organisation for supporting the rights of trans people. This post has been edited by blacksquare: 25th August 2021, 04:29 PM |
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25th August 2021, 04:36 PM
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#12
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,082 User: 3,474
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You can’t make this shit up. If you pitched this stuff for a political satire show it’s be smacked back as unbelievable
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26th August 2021, 05:17 AM
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#13
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,420 User: 12,929 |
As ever, just after yet another prominent elite (Simon Fallow) had yet another interview in the times about 'the problems of militant trans activists' while never hearing from anyone who is actually trans.
britain is hellfire |
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26th August 2021, 07:36 AM
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#14
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471
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QUOTE(Iz 💀 @ Aug 26 2021, 05:17 AM) britain is hellfire Quite! |
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27th August 2021, 12:25 PM
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#15
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there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,144 User: 22,895
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People who aren't trans calling 'cis' and 'terf' slurs seems to be the newest angle that the fun mob are taking :')
Managing to become offended by a term that means 'NOT TRANS' and a literal abbreviation like BBC or NASA is mental gymnastics at its finest. I blame the whole both-sidesism that the media has run with for the last 10-15 years. |
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28th August 2021, 08:04 AM
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#16
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 BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 20 August 2021
Posts: 1,368 User: 135,527
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It's a wedge issue that goes far beyond transgender rights.
LGBTQ+ is about including everybody in society who is of a non-traditional gender or a non-traditional sexuality. Going after trans people and framing the debate as between gay rights (LGB) and trans rights (T) doesn't just exclude trans people, it also takes Q+ out of the debate without actually saying anything about it. Which is going to make the job so much easier when they want to come for LGB people, |
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28th August 2021, 07:06 PM
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#17
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there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,144 User: 22,895
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And they do. The 'LGB Alliance' is just the latest case of a wolf calling itself a sheep. Like the 'Taxpayer's Alliance' which is literally a rightwing pressure group naming itself something that sounds wholesome.
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30th August 2021, 10:43 PM
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#18
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 February 2021
Posts: 3,556 User: 124,514
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Indeed and after Manchester Pride where someone in an LGB Alliance T shirt was ushered out of the event because they are in reality a hate group, the right wing media including GB News then says OMG This gay man is cancelled by a vicious trans right lobby when of course the right wing are the ones that would never have wanted gay rights in the first place.
Depressing that there are so many cis gay people who are very happy to demonise trans people and of course they are the ones (as well as terfs) who the media highlight saying that Trans people are trying to eradicate gay people and women. Not to mention the large number of right wing conservative gay people in the media who now they have rights that the left wing fought for in decades past, want to pull up the drawbridge. And sadly hate crimes against all LGBT people is rising by a great deal over past few years meaning very difficult for them to hold hands with partners or to act their authentic selves in public but the right wing don't care about that at all do they. No its the evil trans people eradicating the gay people isn't it. As people say masterclass in 'Divide and Rule' and Gaslighting tactics. This post has been edited by Smint: 30th August 2021, 10:44 PM |
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1st September 2021, 08:37 AM
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#19
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471
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QUOTE(blacksquare @ Aug 7 2021, 07:05 PM) What I find especially disturbing is how much journalists in the British press keep forcing a narrative that doesn’t really exist — yet. Transphobic journalists really are just a vocal minority |
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1st September 2021, 08:56 AM
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#20
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,082 User: 3,474
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Honestly a little (pleasantly) surprised at Spain.
Sadly the vocal minority are quite vicious, David Paisley the Scottish actor and trans ally is having to leave Scotland for his safety such is the level of abuse that he gets. The Scottish Gov needs to just strap it’s grown up pants on and get the GRA reform done and into law so we can stop having this „debate“ that is utterly toxic and harmful. Let’s just affirm people’s rights, get a progressive And freeing law on the books and start letting people live freely and honestly. I think the best way to cut the legs off this toxic crowd of trans- and homophobic bigots is to get it done And show once and for all that like with the arguments against legalising homosexuality and equal marriage that this is nothing but bigotry with no grounding in reality |
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