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 Aug 25 2013, 06:08 PM
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#21
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 BuzzJack Legend
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QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 25 2013, 10:05 AM)  Youth unemployment is far too high but until the main reason for it is addressed, the flooding into the UK of migrant workers from the EU then it will continue to rise. The jobs that were being taken by British youths are now being snapped up by Poles, Romanians and Bulgarians for example, jobs that require little experience or are unskilled menial / manual work which a decade ago would have been done by Brits are almost the exclusive preserve of EU immigrants, this to me is the reason for the unacceptably high level of youth unemployment, far more of a reason than coalition policy. Go to a warehouse, building site, restaurant, hotel reception, cafe etc and chances are these days, certainly where i live, you will be served by an immigrant. Youth unemployment will only go down significantly by us either withdrawing from the EU entirely or by withdrawing from the free movement of labour parts, with more and more countries joining the EU youth unemployment will go up among Brits Aswell as withdrawing from the EU or at least major major reforms I would also bring in a law that a company has to prove there was not a suitably qualified Brit applying for the job before it was given to an immigrant, thus Brits get priority in the employment market Tax breaks should also be given to companies that employ a young British worker I don't subscribe to the Daily Mail garbage that young Brits are lazy buggers, the problem runs much deeper than that, the problem is EU immigration Maybe if companies were prepared to pay a decent wage more people would apply for jobs. It's generally only people from eastern Europe who are prepared to work for a pittance for a couple years before returning home. |
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Aug 25 2013, 06:10 PM
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#22
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BuzzJack Legend
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QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 25 2013, 10:21 AM) Labour were gambling on going into the next election with a flatlining economy preaching about 'cuts', that was their trump card and pretty much their only line of defence, with the economy powering ahead now all the talk of 'nasty tory cuts' is going to fall on deaf ears among most voters, there is little likelyhood of a recession or flatlining economy this side of 2015, indeed the CBI forecast growth well over 2% next year. There is also the fact that Ed Miliband is a figure of ridicule, a hopeless bumbling Mr Bean type figure, would voters trust him with the likely strong economy he would inherit in 2015? the guy is a joke and Ed Balls is as bad if not worse..labour or should I say UNITE chose the wrong Miliband Labour have peaked Tyron, the only way is down and as the economy and house prices surge ahead down is where they will go and fast mate, a 4-6% lead in the polls when the economy is only starting to improve is a joke, 2 years of robust growth is ahead so labour have well and truly blown it I am not going to make any wild predictions like I did in 2010 and predict the actual result/majority but the 100% certainty is that Cameron will still be PM after the next election either in a coalition with Lib Dems or preferably a majority tory government. Ed Miliband will not be PM in 2015, more chance of Susan Boyle topping the FHM Worlds Sexiest Woman poll Is this a new record? You've contradicted yourself in successive posts. You say you don't subscribe to Daily Wail type rubbish and then quote exactly that about Ed Milliband. And if you really think there will be a robust economy in two years' time, perhaps it's time you left La-La Land. |
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Aug 25 2013, 06:21 PM
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#23
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 BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Aug 25 2013, 07:08 PM) Maybe if companies were prepared to pay a decent wage more people would apply for jobs. It's generally only people from eastern Europe who are prepared to work for a pittance for a couple years before returning home. I don't think it is the not applying for jobs that is the issue, in order to qualify for JSA they have to show they are applying for jobs and supply proof plus I read somewhere recently that a site called Universal Job Match is mandatory for benefit claimants and that the DWP can track what effort the claimant makes so I am sure they are applying for jobs but because of media smear campaigns against the young employers have it into their heads that they are only going to get a good shift out of an immigrant, young brits aren't getting the chance. I do think wages should be higher as that saves the taxpayer forking out on tax credits to top up wages but on the other hand the minimum wage in UK is only a recent thing, about 15 years? and there was not the levels of youth unemployment pre minimum wage that there is now so I think while it is a problem it is not the be all and end all of why British youths are not getting jobs |
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Aug 25 2013, 06:24 PM
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#24
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Aug 25 2013, 07:10 PM) Is this a new record? You've contradicted yourself in successive posts. You say you don't subscribe to Daily Wail type rubbish and then quote exactly that about Ed Milliband. And if you really think there will be a robust economy in two years' time, perhaps it's time you left La-La Land. I watch PMQ and the guy is an embarrassment at the dispatch box, I don't need to read the DM or Sun to realise the guy is hopelessly out of his depth Cameron chews him up and spits him out every single time Robust to me is anything over 2% and that is what the CBI are forecasting for 2014 and 2015, nearer 2.5% infact |
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Aug 25 2013, 07:26 PM
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#25
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 25 2013, 07:24 PM) I watch PMQ and the guy is an embarrassment at the dispatch box, I don't need to read the DM or Sun to realise the guy is hopelessly out of his depth Cameron chews him up and spits him out every single time Robust to me is anything over 2% and that is what the CBI are forecasting for 2014 and 2015, nearer 2.5% infact 2% growth is roughly the long-term (i.e. 50 years or more) average so that is hardly robust. As for PMQs, I might start watching it again when I read that Cameron has actually answered a question other than a planted question from an arse-licking backbencher. I know he isn't the first PM to do that but he does seem to be even worse than his predecessors. The whole half-hour is an utter waste of time. |
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Aug 25 2013, 07:29 PM
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#26
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BuzzJack Legend
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QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 25 2013, 07:21 PM) I don't think it is the not applying for jobs that is the issue, in order to qualify for JSA they have to show they are applying for jobs and supply proof plus I read somewhere recently that a site called Universal Job Match is mandatory for benefit claimants and that the DWP can track what effort the claimant makes so I am sure they are applying for jobs but because of media smear campaigns against the young employers have it into their heads that they are only going to get a good shift out of an immigrant, young brits aren't getting the chance. I do think wages should be higher as that saves the taxpayer forking out on tax credits to top up wages but on the other hand the minimum wage in UK is only a recent thing, about 15 years? and there was not the levels of youth unemployment pre minimum wage that there is now so I think while it is a problem it is not the be all and end all of why British youths are not getting jobs The minimum wage is far too low. It would be a major risk to increase it to a living wage immediately but that ought to be a medium term aim. |
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Aug 25 2013, 07:30 PM
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#27
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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Why are you so certain Craig, that after 1 quarter of weak growth the UK economy is suddenly going to spring back into life? Unemployment is flat, this is no more than stagnation. The biggest areas of growth are from awful pay-day loan companies which exploit those in difficult financial situations: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...nd-economy.html
The majority of the UK public won't feel like this is a recovery with their spending continuing to be squeezed and the result in 2015 may not be as clear-cut as you expect. |
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Aug 25 2013, 08:39 PM
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#28
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Aug 25 2013, 08:29 PM) The minimum wage is far too low. It would be a major risk to increase it to a living wage immediately but that ought to be a medium term aim. Agree, needs to be a progressive thing over time without damaging the recovery so a medium term aim |
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Aug 25 2013, 08:42 PM
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#29
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Aug 25 2013, 08:30 PM) Why are you so certain Craig, that after 1 quarter of weak growth the UK economy is suddenly going to spring back into life? Unemployment is flat, this is no more than stagnation. The biggest areas of growth are from awful pay-day loan companies which exploit those in difficult financial situations: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...nd-economy.html The majority of the UK public won't feel like this is a recovery with their spending continuing to be squeezed and the result in 2015 may not be as clear-cut as you expect. It is not just me though Mark Carney one of the worlds most respected economists thinks the already solid growth will gather a head of steam The CBI who are an organisation of business people who run businesses large and small say growth will reach 2.5% in 2015, 2.5% while not a boom is a pretty robust performance and one which Cameron could use as a trump card in the election |
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Aug 25 2013, 09:03 PM
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#30
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 25 2013, 09:42 PM) It is not just me though Mark Carney one of the worlds most respected economists thinks the already solid growth will gather a head of steam The CBI who are an organisation of business people who run businesses large and small say growth will reach 2.5% in 2015, 2.5% while not a boom is a pretty robust performance and one which Cameron could use as a trump card in the election But the CBI do not have a particularly good record of predicting growth, They do, on the other hand, have a record of supporting the Conservative party. When Gordon Brown was Chancellor, all of his predictions for future growth were ridiculed by Tory politicians and the CBI as being hopelessly optimistic. That was Osbourne's justification for setting up the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR). Nearly all Brown's forecasts proved to be nearer the reality than those of the CBI. So far, all of the OBR's forecasts have proved to be hopelessly optimistic. |
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Aug 25 2013, 09:07 PM
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#31
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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The CBI predicted we would get 2% growth in 2011.. we got 1.1%
They predicted 0.9% growth in 2012.. it was a dead 0% I think you get the picture, their predictions aren't worth the sterling that is being rapidly printed as part of quantitative easing. |
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Aug 25 2013, 09:57 PM
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#32
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 DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
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QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 25 2013, 10:05 AM) Youth unemployment is far too high but until the main reason for it is addressed, the flooding into the UK of migrant workers from the EU then it will continue to rise. The jobs that were being taken by British youths are now being snapped up by Poles, Romanians and Bulgarians for example, jobs that require little experience or are unskilled menial / manual work which a decade ago would have been done by Brits are almost the exclusive preserve of EU immigrants, this to me is the reason for the unacceptably high level of youth unemployment, far more of a reason than coalition policy. Go to a warehouse, building site, restaurant, hotel reception, cafe etc and chances are these days, certainly where i live, you will be served by an immigrant. Youth unemployment will only go down significantly by us either withdrawing from the EU entirely or by withdrawing from the free movement of labour parts, with more and more countries joining the EU youth unemployment will go up among Brits Aswell as withdrawing from the EU or at least major major reforms I would also bring in a law that a company has to prove there was not a suitably qualified Brit applying for the job before it was given to an immigrant, thus Brits get priority in the employment market Tax breaks should also be given to companies that employ a young British worker I don't subscribe to the Daily Mail garbage that young Brits are lazy buggers, the problem runs much deeper than that, the problem is EU immigration There are about 400k vacancies in the British economy and about 400k migrant workers here currently. Youth unemployment is over a million. Do some basic research before you airily call for the tearing up of our membership of one of the biggest free trade zones in the world. QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 25 2013, 10:21 AM) Labour were gambling on going into the next election with a flatlining economy preaching about 'cuts', that was their trump card and pretty much their only line of defence, with the economy powering ahead now all the talk of 'nasty tory cuts' is going to fall on deaf ears among most voters, there is little likelyhood of a recession or flatlining economy this side of 2015, indeed the CBI forecast growth well over 2% next year. There is also the fact that Ed Miliband is a figure of ridicule, a hopeless bumbling Mr Bean type figure, would voters trust him with the likely strong economy he would inherit in 2015? the guy is a joke and Ed Balls is as bad if not worse..labour or should I say UNITE chose the wrong Miliband Labour have peaked Tyron, the only way is down and as the economy and house prices surge ahead down is where they will go and fast mate, a 4-6% lead in the polls when the economy is only starting to improve is a joke, 2 years of robust growth is ahead so labour have well and truly blown it I am not going to make any wild predictions like I did in 2010 and predict the actual result/majority but the 100% certainty is that Cameron will still be PM after the next election either in a coalition with Lib Dems or preferably a majority tory government. Ed Miliband will not be PM in 2015, more chance of Susan Boyle topping the FHM Worlds Sexiest Woman poll You're basing all of this on conjecture about how all of this will translate into votes. The problem for the Tories is that the constituencies where elections are decided by house prices et al are already Conservative. How exactly are you proposing that the likes of Middlesborough (which Cameron would need to start getting into majority figures) are going to be falling the Tory way next time when they didn't last time? Labour probably won't win, but it's pure bluster that it's a '100% certainty' that Cameron will be PM after 2015. I'm not all that confident in Ed but the likelihood of a Labour/Lib Dem coalition is far higher than that of a Tory majority - though I currently predict a continued Tory/Lib Dem coalition. QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 25 2013, 07:24 PM) I watch PMQ and the guy is an embarrassment at the dispatch box, I don't need to read the DM or Sun to realise the guy is hopelessly out of his depth Cameron chews him up and spits him out every single time You do realise the exact same thing could've been said about Margaret Thatcher before 1979? In any case, even with my lack of confidence in Ed, pretty much all of their PMQs tend to be really boring score draws. Cameron 'wins' more often than Ed does but even then the 'wins' for either are so few and far between and they're pretty much level pegging there. |
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Aug 25 2013, 10:08 PM
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#33
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Cassandra @ Aug 25 2013, 10:57 PM) You do realise the exact same thing could've been said about Margaret Thatcher before 1979? In any case, even with my lack of confidence in Ed, pretty much all of their PMQs tend to be really boring score draws. Cameron 'wins' more often than Ed does but even then the 'wins' for either are so few and far between and they're pretty much level pegging there. It is also the case that William Hague was widely thought to have done better than Blair at PMQs and the result was a net increase for the Tories of one seat. Even that could be said to have been Tatton - a seat previously held by the liar and cheat Neil Hamilton. The Tories only lost the seat in 1997 because the local Tory association were stubborn enough to reselect Hamilton thus enabling Martin Bell to win as an independent. Unfortunately for the country, the Tory who won the seat back in 2001 was George Osborne. |
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Aug 26 2013, 09:06 AM
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#34
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 25 2013, 07:21 PM) I don't think it is the not applying for jobs that is the issue, in order to qualify for JSA they have to show they are applying for jobs and supply proof plus I read somewhere recently that a site called Universal Job Match is mandatory for benefit claimants and that the DWP can track what effort the claimant makes so I am sure they are applying for jobs but because of media smear campaigns against the young employers have it into their heads that they are only going to get a good shift out of an immigrant, young brits aren't getting the chance. I do think wages should be higher as that saves the taxpayer forking out on tax credits to top up wages but on the other hand the minimum wage in UK is only a recent thing, about 15 years? and there was not the levels of youth unemployment pre minimum wage that there is now so I think while it is a problem it is not the be all and end all of why British youths are not getting jobs I work for local government, we take on both qualified professional european staff, unqualified european staff as cleaners (as mentioned young or older British people wont do basic manual labour, there isnt a conspiracy against them, they just get more money on benefits so why would they take it on?) we also have young British trainees (which used to be part of work culture but isnt now) - the difference now is they are a cheap source of replacing qualified full-time staff to save money, not additional to. Both benefit, of course, and it doesnt affect the jobless figures - except that older qualified staff are replacing the young on the JSA in a roundabout way. Of course these arguments blaming Europeans dont hold water for previous recessions, bearing in mind in 1980 through to 1987 I was a graduate and on the dole 2 and ahalf years, the rest of the time doing factory jobs, then a 3-year temporary post. Unemployment if anything was worse then, and there was no mass immigration, and precious few benefits - I lived on a basic £14 a week and depended on parental help. When I got low-paid part-time jobs, they docked my benefits so I actually earned LESS money than if I was unemployed. A bit mad..... Oh and by the way youth unemployment back in 1981 was horrendous, there was rioting in the streets. We didnt have the internet and mobile phones in those days to wile away the time.... |
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Aug 26 2013, 10:43 AM
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#35
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 1 April 2006
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QUOTE(Cassandra @ Aug 25 2013, 10:57 PM) There are about 400k vacancies in the British economy and about 400k migrant workers here currently. Youth unemployment is over a million. Do some basic research before you airily call for the tearing up of our membership of one of the biggest free trade zones in the world. You're basing all of this on conjecture about how all of this will translate into votes. The problem for the Tories is that the constituencies where elections are decided by house prices et al are already Conservative. How exactly are you proposing that the likes of Middlesborough (which Cameron would need to start getting into majority figures) are going to be falling the Tory way next time when they didn't last time? Labour probably won't win, but it's pure bluster that it's a '100% certainty' that Cameron will be PM after 2015. I'm not all that confident in Ed but the likelihood of a Labour/Lib Dem coalition is far higher than that of a Tory majority - though I currently predict a continued Tory/Lib Dem coalition. You do realise the exact same thing could've been said about Margaret Thatcher before 1979? In any case, even with my lack of confidence in Ed, pretty much all of their PMQs tend to be really boring score draws. Cameron 'wins' more often than Ed does but even then the 'wins' for either are so few and far between and they're pretty much level pegging there. Margaret Thatcher's first term as PM was a disaster. Heseltine stemmed the tide of dissent in Liverpool in 1981 but the tide only turned in 1982 when the Junta in Argentina decided to invade the Falklands. Without that intervention, she would have been a footnote in British political history - the first female PM. If she had gone then maybe females would have a better chance of being PM today! |
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Aug 26 2013, 03:33 PM
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#36
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Aug 25 2013, 10:03 PM) But the CBI do not have a particularly good record of predicting growth, They do, on the other hand, have a record of supporting the Conservative party. When Gordon Brown was Chancellor, all of his predictions for future growth were ridiculed by Tory politicians and the CBI as being hopelessly optimistic. That was Osbourne's justification for setting up the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR). Nearly all Brown's forecasts proved to be nearer the reality than those of the CBI. So far, all of the OBR's forecasts have proved to be hopelessly optimistic. Even some growth, 1-2% although I suspect it will be more thanks to the housing market, would still give the tories the ability to say at the next campaign 'the economy is growing, don't let labour wreck it' and this would cause many people to think 'hmmm better the devil you know.....' |
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Aug 26 2013, 03:36 PM
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#37
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
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QUOTE(Cassandra @ Aug 25 2013, 10:57 PM) There are about 400k vacancies in the British economy and about 400k migrant workers here currently. Youth unemployment is over a million. Do some basic research before you airily call for the tearing up of our membership of one of the biggest free trade zones in the world. You're basing all of this on conjecture about how all of this will translate into votes. The problem for the Tories is that the constituencies where elections are decided by house prices et al are already Conservative. How exactly are you proposing that the likes of Middlesborough (which Cameron would need to start getting into majority figures) are going to be falling the Tory way next time when they didn't last time? Labour probably won't win, but it's pure bluster that it's a '100% certainty' that Cameron will be PM after 2015. I'm not all that confident in Ed but the likelihood of a Labour/Lib Dem coalition is far higher than that of a Tory majority - though I currently predict a continued Tory/Lib Dem coalition. You do realise the exact same thing could've been said about Margaret Thatcher before 1979? In any case, even with my lack of confidence in Ed, pretty much all of their PMQs tend to be really boring score draws. Cameron 'wins' more often than Ed does but even then the 'wins' for either are so few and far between and they're pretty much level pegging there. There are 400k vacancies registered with job centres, job centres probably represent about 50% of jobs if you take into account agencies etc so in real terms you are probably talking in terms of 750,000 jobs on the market, the company i work for never use the job centre we purely use specialist agencies and we are not alone |
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Aug 26 2013, 03:39 PM
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#38
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Sandro Ranieri @ Aug 26 2013, 04:33 PM) Even some growth, 1-2% although I suspect it will be more thanks to the housing market, would still give the tories the ability to say at the next campaign 'the economy is growing, don't let labour wreck it' and this would cause many people to think 'hmmm better the devil you know.....' The economy was growing when this lot took over. I suspect the Tories will use something like your slogan even though many people feel that the Tories have already wrecked the economy. |
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Aug 26 2013, 03:41 PM
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#39
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 2,198 User: 18,849
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Aug 26 2013, 10:06 AM) I work for local government, we take on both qualified professional european staff, unqualified european staff as cleaners (as mentioned young or older British people wont do basic manual labour, there isnt a conspiracy against them, they just get more money on benefits so why would they take it on?) we also have young British trainees (which used to be part of work culture but isnt now) - the difference now is they are a cheap source of replacing qualified full-time staff to save money, not additional to. Both benefit, of course, and it doesnt affect the jobless figures - except that older qualified staff are replacing the young on the JSA in a roundabout way. Of course these arguments blaming Europeans dont hold water for previous recessions, bearing in mind in 1980 through to 1987 I was a graduate and on the dole 2 and ahalf years, the rest of the time doing factory jobs, then a 3-year temporary post. Unemployment if anything was worse then, and there was no mass immigration, and precious few benefits - I lived on a basic £14 a week and depended on parental help. When I got low-paid part-time jobs, they docked my benefits so I actually earned LESS money than if I was unemployed. A bit mad..... Oh and by the way youth unemployment back in 1981 was horrendous, there was rioting in the streets. We didnt have the internet and mobile phones in those days to wile away the time.... Interesting insights, I am at work atm so don't have the time to reply fully atm but the riots you talked about in 1981 were not about jobs or unemployment etc, they were in areas like Brixton, Toxteth, Moss Side, Broadwater Farm etc, areas which were heavily populated by young blacks, the riots were caused by police actions and heavy handedness against the black communities, Brixton was caused after police shot a young black man in a drugs raid, Broadwater Farm was revenge for a black woman dying at the hands of the police so it was not about jobs tbh Plus burning down shops/looting shops etc does nothing but put people out of work in those communities |
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Aug 26 2013, 04:01 PM
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#40
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Cœur poids plume
Joined: 3 November 2007
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Aug 26 2013, 03:39 PM) The economy was growing when this lot took over. I suspect the Tories will use something like your slogan even though many people feel that the Tories have already wrecked the economy. He kinda has a point though. Even now, more people seem to think it was 'Labour wot done it' and even a belated recovery under a Tory government can be used against them. |
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