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> Can the VICTIM ever be blamed for the CRIME?
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HausAlone
post Jan 11 2015, 06:51 PM
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So this has come out of recent controversy in Celebrity Big Brother and resulting discussion in that forum. For those that are unsure about what happened, a woman who was naked under her dressing gown, had her gown parted by a fellow housemate, revealing her boob. There was a huge reaction - could this have been prevented if she wore something underneath it and didn't shut herself in a toilet with a drunk man?

Can the victim of a heinous crime ever be responsible for "getting themselves into the situation". A few examples i hear of, are scantily clad men/women, who are often drunk, being blamed for getting raped (which i personally find ludicrous, just like the example i gave above, but is there some truth behind it?), or people walking around flashing their phones being blamed for muggings etc. Blamed is quite a strong word, so substitute "partly responsible" in there too.

Quite a sensitive subject especially when dealing with things like rape, so please keep it civil.
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Jack
post Jan 11 2015, 07:02 PM
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No, not really. There is way too many people blaming women and mysogyny seems to be in right now, its so embarrasing and makes me ashamed to be British in all honesty.
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Noahspike
post Jan 11 2015, 07:06 PM
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My stance would be that there are certain precautions which you may choose to take to help minimise the chance of an attack/mugging etc, however I would never consider a victim who doesn't take such measures even 'partly responsible' for an incident.
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Liаm
post Jan 11 2015, 07:07 PM
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No. If a woman did that (what happened on CBB) to a man nobody would ever blame the man. It's just society being sexist imo, because "woman are slags and deserve it!!1!1". I think it's also disgusting when a woman is raped or sexually assaulted etc. and then people say "oh she was dressed provocatively and flirted so she was asking for it" or something like that :/ I simply can't envisage a situation when someone "deserves" to be victim of a crime like that, or any crime.
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Rooney
post Jan 11 2015, 07:24 PM
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Hmm quite a hard topic. I think in cases like this no. You can't say a girl deserved to gets sexually assaulted just because she dresses a little 'slutty'. Girls want attention when they go out, but it's for looking purposes only, not for touching.

However when you take cases like Person X, winding Person Y up.. then Person Y coming round and lumping bricks out of Person X, then yes I think the victim has to share some responsibility.
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Sceryl_Streep
post Jan 11 2015, 07:38 PM
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Basically what Rooney said, it's situationally specific and by and large its a no, but in some where the victim has aggravated a violent situation or added fire to the flames then I think its fair for them to share a portion (albeit smaller) of the blame.
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5 Silas Frřkner
post Jan 11 2015, 08:03 PM
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Victim blaming is unacceptable under any circumstances and should be firmly stamped out of our culture.



I don't count people who actively go looking for a fight then get the shit kicked out of them as victims. They're stupid and what happened to them is a consequence of their own stupid actions.
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Umi
post Jan 11 2015, 08:05 PM
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Putting yourself at greater risk to something does not mean you are responsible for it. Having a broken burglar alarm does not mean you are to be blamed for being robbed. Should you prosecute yourself?

Only time I think the victim can be blamed is in stuff like fights with provocation - see that horrible Russian TV show clip where that woman was being incredibly vile and got assaulted for it. The person who commits the crime (i.e. the one who actually attacked) is evidently the one to blame but if one is abusing someone else verbally, physically or otherwise, they invite violence themselves.

Blah. Not sure how one could even entertain the idea of a woman being at fault for wearing a bathrobe. But what do you think Bal? You always start these topics but never actually give your own view.
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t=SpunderfulXmas
post Jan 11 2015, 08:12 PM
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In a way yes, and as a precaution. But I don't think the words 'responsible' or 'blamed' quite cuts it...
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HausAlone
post Jan 11 2015, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE(Umi @ Jan 11 2015, 08:05 PM) *
Blah. Not sure how one could even entertain the idea of a woman being at fault for wearing a bathrobe. But what do you think Bal? You always start these topics but never actually give your own view.

I said it was ludicrous in the opening post and posted about it in the Big Brother thread but my view for this specific example was (in response to a poster saying she was silly for not wearing anything under her gown):

"She should be able to walk around however she wants as i don't think she would have ever expected to have her gown opened by someone else. It was perhaps a little silly to have absolutely nothing underneath, i agree with you there, but it was her choice to do that and she is fully entitled to without fear of being exposed."

So in that example, i place no blame or responsibility on the female in question at all.


On that Russian TV one, i found that wholly unwarranted. Obviously not having seen the whole show, but being flirty, provocative, and a bit of a wind-up merchant does not warrant being flung to the ground and beaten up - male or female.

The reason i gave the phone example too, was because i had my phone out listening to music after leaving a club a few weeks ago and a guy tried to snatch it out of my hand. I was repeatedly told that i shouldn't have had my phone out which was obviously sound advice, it just made me think of more extreme cases where crimes could have been prevented from ever happening with more sensible actions from the one on the victim side of it.
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t=SpunderfulXmas
post Jan 11 2015, 08:14 PM
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If you go to school in pyjamas you should expect the consequences laugh.gif
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*Tim
post Jan 11 2015, 08:16 PM
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And what exactly would those consequences be?
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t=SpunderfulXmas
post Jan 11 2015, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE(*Tim @ Jan 11 2015, 08:16 PM) *
And what exactly would those consequences be?


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*Tim
post Jan 11 2015, 08:21 PM
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Wat? unsure.gif
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5 Silas Frřkner
post Jan 11 2015, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE(SPINUMINATI ADAM @ Jan 11 2015, 08:12 PM) *
In a way yes, and as a precaution. But I don't think the words 'responsible' or 'blamed' quite cuts it...

So you are saying that a victim can be blamed for a crime?

manson.gif
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Nadolig Llawen!
post Jan 11 2015, 08:21 PM
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Unless the crime is me having killed Michael. But in all seriousness, no, never. People may need to be more careful but that will never be an excuse.
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Michael Bubré
post Jan 11 2015, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE(Silas @ Jan 11 2015, 08:03 PM) *
Victim blaming is unacceptable under any circumstances and should be firmly stamped out of our culture.
I don't count people who actively go looking for a fight then get the shit kicked out of them as victims. They're stupid and what happened to them is a consequence of their own stupid actions.


This post reads a bit like 'victims should never be blamed unless they should' to me! No matter how stupid it is to get yourself into that situation I'd still say that person was a victim, even if only of their own stupidity.

The idea that someone should ever be blamed for being raped/sexually assaulted due to the way they dress is of course ridiculous because no mentally stable person would commit sexual assault, however lesser things like being flirted with/attracting sexual comments etc. which I sometimes see brought up in discussions of this nature I'm not so sure about (since they don't exactly do any HARM, and in this case if the 'victim' did not want the attention then perhaps it would be a good idea to not dress so provocatively).

This may be slightly controversial so I'm taking care to try and word it as unambiguously as possible but ~ I think in a lot of cases the victim of a crime DOES, in a completely objective way, have some responsibility but it's not worth mentioning (and certainly not worth straight up blaming) because the reaction to whatever it was they did was far more extreme than reasonably expected. If that makes sense. Having responsibility =/= deserving blame but the two are so easily confusable that it's just not appropriate to bring either up.
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t=SpunderfulXmas
post Jan 11 2015, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE(Silas @ Jan 11 2015, 08:21 PM) *
So you are saying that a victim can be blamed for a crime?

manson.gif


No, in a way.

I did say 'blamed' wasn't a word that could 'cut it' laugh.gif
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Abdul Fareek
post Jan 11 2015, 08:38 PM
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Jeremy Jackson is a complete nutjob! He clearly has psychological issues and maybe shouldn't have been allowed in the big brother house in the first place.

But I suppose for entertainment reasons it's good that he went in and we wouldn't have had funny moments like this laugh.gif 34:40-34:54

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HausAlone
post Jan 11 2015, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE(Fareek 2K15 @ Jan 11 2015, 08:38 PM) *
Jeremy Jackson is a complete nutjob! He clearly has psychological issues and maybe shouldn't have been allowed in the big brother house in the first place.

Although i don't think he's a "nutjob" per se, i agree he shouldn't have been allowed in. A recovering alcoholic going into the Big Brother house, where there are copious amount of alcohol... I suppose that's another scenario to dissect: are Big Brother to blame for putting him in the situation, or should he have known about his own strengths/issues himself and who is to blame for the situation getting to where it did?

He obviously had the money on his mind, so once again i think it is a major cock-up from the producers of the show (who will no doubt be laughing right now because the controversy caused = more ratings)
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