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> (over-)Analysing the MADONNA/DRAKE snog, bitch, get off her pole~
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HausAlone
post Apr 14 2015, 04:48 PM
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So by now we've all seen that infamous kiss, but the responses i've seen to it online have by and large led to all sorts of questions and debates so this is a chance to pick apart what happened.

I have seen some quite alarming comments about RAPE and others whereby if an elderly man had done the same thing to a young(ish) woman they'd have been much more severely condemned. Also the usual comments about how sickening it is for a woman of her age to be acting like this, so where do you stand on the situation? Should Madonna be censoring herself because of her age...

All you have to do is go onto Twitter and see some of the comments on that (some of which are actually hilarious and insightful), but is there truth behind what some of the more extreme ones are saying? Would there have been a different response if the genders and/or ages were reversed?

*semi-serious*
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LexC
post Apr 14 2015, 04:50 PM
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Madonna kisses young popular musician on stage to get attention. Who'd have thought it?
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Nadolig Llawen!
post Apr 14 2015, 05:00 PM
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I think there's a point that it wouldn't have gone down well had the genders been reversed. The elderly gent would have been called out as a perv.

As for whether she should be behaving this way at her age-well there's no real reason why she shouldn't I guess but I can't think why she'd want to be. She isn't owning the age she is and I think it's quite clear that she's struggling to come to terms with getting older and rather making a point of not caring. She's a month older than my mother who I wouldn't expect this behaviour from.

I simply feel she's trying too hard these days. She would do well to grow old gracefully. But regardless of her age I really don't think any male, female, old, young artist should be trying to use shock tactics to make the headlines. Obviously it's a thing that will never die out but I'm not sure Madonna would still be trying to flaunt herself out like this at her age were the younger stars not doing it.
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t=SpunderfulXmas
post Apr 14 2015, 05:04 PM
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Nah, it's just an attempt for Madonna to stay relevant after her Living To Flop pirate.gif
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NellyEverySundae
post Apr 14 2015, 05:07 PM
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Ewww.
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Rooney
post Apr 14 2015, 05:55 PM
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I would have liked to have also kissed Madonna.
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HausAlone
post Apr 14 2015, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Apr 14 2015, 06:00 PM) *
I think there's a point that it wouldn't have gone down well had the genders been reversed. The elderly gent would have been called out as a perv.

As for whether she should be behaving this way at her age-well there's no real reason why she shouldn't I guess but I can't think why she'd want to be. She isn't owning the age she is and I think it's quite clear that she's struggling to come to terms with getting older and rather making a point of not caring. She's a month older than my mother who I wouldn't expect this behaviour from.

I simply feel she's trying too hard these days. She would do well to grow old gracefully. But regardless of her age I really don't think any male, female, old, young artist should be trying to use shock tactics to make the headlines. Obviously it's a thing that will never die out but I'm not sure Madonna would still be trying to flaunt herself out like this at her age were the younger stars not doing it.

Mostly agreed. On the part i have bolded, i think part of this entire album campaign is precisely to prove that more agéd women should still be able to act wild and free. Of course this one was a publicity stunt and what will get people talking, but she has actually detailed quite eloquently at times exactly how she feels about being percieved as an "old woman" and "past her time" so in a way i cannot blame her for wanting to lash out against those criticisms in the way that she does it best - shocking the public. She has done it for decades, be it through religion, sexuality, money & fame, race, discrimination and practically every other facet, it just so happens that now it is age that she is dealing with. You wouldn't expect this behaviour, but that is part of who she is as a person - someone that goes above and beyond expectations and good on her i say.

I don't think she should have to use shock tactics to achieve this either, don't get me wrong but i have learnt to accept that from her now and it adds to the charm for me.
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t=SpunderfulXmas
post Apr 14 2015, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Apr 14 2015, 06:55 PM) *
I would have liked to have also kissed Madonna.

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HausAlone
post Apr 14 2015, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE(Šţinniŋğ Ĺđɑ @ Apr 14 2015, 06:57 PM) *
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You're acting like you wouldn't want to...? unsure.gif
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Josh!
post Apr 14 2015, 06:03 PM
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Actually, that role reversal idea is a good one. I'm sure mpany people would be disgusted it Cliff Richard/Paul McCartney (old male legends etc. I understand they're a bit older than Madge) landed a smacker on Nicki Minaj or Iggy Azalea (female rappers of similar age to Drake). ohmy.gif

Although, personally I think this is quite funny, good on her.


This post has been edited by Josh.: Apr 14 2015, 06:05 PM
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Tawdry Hepburn
post Apr 14 2015, 06:04 PM
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I don't really think it's a big deal, the fact it's a publicity stunt goes without saying but that's par for the course with Madonna these days. His grimacing face afterwards was pretty hilarious, but he himself has said he revelled in it so it doesn't have to be an issue. It's not as if she forcibly performed a sex act on him.

Plus she has said recently that she does legitimately have a crush on Drake, so good on her for having the balls to go get that man!
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HausAlone
post Apr 14 2015, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE(Josh. @ Apr 14 2015, 07:03 PM) *
Actually, that role reversal idea is a good one. I'm sure mpany people would be disgusted it Cliff Richard/Paul McCartney (old male legends etc. I understand they're a bit older than Madge) landed a smacker on Nicki Minaj or Iggy Azalea (female rappers of similar age to Drake). ohmy.gif

Yeah i think this particular stunt would not have been met kindly had it have been a male doing what Madonna did. But on the flip-side she has been very outspoken at how older males can seemingly get away with or be celebrated for having younger partners, but if she or other females do the same, they are not met with the same response and are criticised for it.

It's a lot of double-standards all around and so difficult to properly judge i guess.
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Nadolig Llawen!
post Apr 14 2015, 06:13 PM
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QUOTE(HausofKendrick @ Apr 14 2015, 07:06 PM) *
Yeah i think this particular stunt would not have been met kindly had it have been a male doing what Madonna did. But on the flip-side she has been very outspoken at how older males can seemingly get away with or be celebrated for having younger partners, but if she or other females do the same, they are not met with the same response and are criticised for it.

It's a lot of double-standards all around and so difficult to properly judge i guess.


This tbh.

Not such as extreme an example but what were the general thoughts on Robin Thicke and Miley Cyrus 2 years ago? There was a little controversy but I don't think Robin got nearly the stick Madonna has. Age gap slightly smaller but still.
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HausAlone
post Apr 14 2015, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Apr 14 2015, 07:13 PM) *
Not such as extreme an example but what were the general thoughts on Robin Thicke and Miley Cyrus 2 years ago? There was a little controversy but I don't think Robin got nearly the stick Madonna has. Age gap slightly smaller but still.

Interesting comparison. I remember a few "perv/sleaze" comments directed towards Robin but nowhere near as much as this incident (not that i think that those comments were warranted either). It was a slightly different situation because Miley was hugely attention grabbing so Robin was just an accessory to the whole thing but still interesting to compare.
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liamk97
post Apr 14 2015, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Apr 14 2015, 06:55 PM) *
I would have liked to have also kissed Madonna.

Hear hear!

QUOTE(HausofKendrick @ Apr 14 2015, 06:55 PM) *
Mostly agreed. On the part i have bolded, i think part of this entire album campaign is precisely to prove that more agéd women should still be able to act wild and free. Of course this one was a publicity stunt and what will get people talking, but she has actually detailed quite eloquently at times exactly how she feels about being percieved as an "old woman" and "past her time" so in a way i cannot blame her for wanting to lash out against those criticisms in the way that she does it best - shocking the public. She has done it for decades, be it through religion, sexuality, money & fame, race, discrimination and practically every other facet, it just so happens that now it is age that she is dealing with. You wouldn't expect this behaviour, but that is part of who she is as a person - someone that goes above and beyond expectations and good on her i say.

I don't think she should have to use shock tactics to achieve this either, don't get me wrong but i have learnt to accept that from her now and it adds to the charm for me.

I pretty much agree with this. Of course some things she does are intended to shock and get publicity but I think there is always a purpose behind the things she does. As you say, she has spoken strongly about people's perceptions of what you should or shouldn't do when you hit your 50s and she challenges these by doing extreme things to provoke thoughts and question opinions. Unfortunately, a lot don't seem to have the intelligence to do anything more than say "ew, she's old enough to be my grandma". And tbh, I doubt that when our generation hits the 50s that we'll all be covering up and not being sexually active. I'm quite sure we'll be doing things "worse" than Madonna!

As for the sexual assault claims, I can see where people are coming from but the fact Drake has said his reaction was misinterpreted and has made no reference to believing this was something he didn't want proves to me that this wasn't a sexual assault. It seems to me that the equality brigade are again searching for ways to be offended.

I found this post on Tumblr which I found quite interesting - an extract from a magazine from 1993, when Madonna was 34-35 years old:



QUOTE(HausofKendrick @ Apr 14 2015, 07:28 PM) *
Interesting comparison. I remember a few "perv/sleaze" comments directed towards Robin but nowhere near as much as this incident (not that i think that those comments were warranted either). It was a slightly different situation because Miley was hugely attention grabbing so Robin was just an accessory to the whole thing but still interesting to compare.

I'd say it was because Miley performed the sexual act on him rather than the other way round.
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liamk97
post Apr 14 2015, 08:51 PM
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Then there's the other side of Tumblr that is getting so buthurt over this.
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HausAlone
post Apr 14 2015, 10:01 PM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Apr 14 2015, 08:17 PM) *
Hear hear!
I pretty much agree with this. Of course some things she does are intended to shock and get publicity but I think there is always a purpose behind the things she does. As you say, she has spoken strongly about people's perceptions of what you should or shouldn't do when you hit your 50s and she challenges these by doing extreme things to provoke thoughts and question opinions. Unfortunately, a lot don't seem to have the intelligence to do anything more than say "ew, she's old enough to be my grandma". And tbh, I doubt that when our generation hits the 50s that we'll all be covering up and not being sexually active. I'm quite sure we'll be doing things "worse" than Madonna!

As for the sexual assault claims, I can see where people are coming from but the fact Drake has said his reaction was misinterpreted and has made no reference to believing this was something he didn't want proves to me that this wasn't a sexual assault. It seems to me that the equality brigade are again searching for ways to be offended.

I found this post on Tumblr which I found quite interesting - an extract from a magazine from 1993, when Madonna was 34-35 years old:


I do think people would respect her opinions more if she wasn't so outlandish with her actions, but then why would she bother doing it if that's not what she wants to do (and the fact that people wouldn't really be as interested if she just spoke about the issues)? She has ALWAYS been about doing what she wants and not giving two f***s, so while it may tarnish her image i don't think she cares and the only people that seem to are her fans that are worried about how other people perceive her. Her cut-throat attitude to disbelievers and haters and critics and trolls is how she has managed to stay in the industry for so long so it would be totally disingenuous of her to change that now.

That is an interesting article. I can't imagine seeing the same thing being said for artists that are 34-35 now, because most still seem transfixed on Madonna, her age and the fact she is still going laugh.gif
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liamk97
post Apr 15 2015, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE(HausofKendrick @ Apr 14 2015, 11:01 PM) *
I do think people would respect her opinions more if she wasn't so outlandish with her actions, but then why would she bother doing it if that's not what she wants to do (and the fact that people wouldn't really be as interested if she just spoke about the issues)? She has ALWAYS been about doing what she wants and not giving two f***s, so while it may tarnish her image i don't think she cares and the only people that seem to are her fans that are worried about how other people perceive her. Her cut-throat attitude to disbelievers and haters and critics and trolls is how she has managed to stay in the industry for so long so it would be totally disingenuous of her to change that now.

That is an interesting article. I can't imagine seeing the same thing being said for artists that are 34-35 now, because most still seem transfixed on Madonna, her age and the fact she is still going laugh.gif

Exactly, no-one would bother reading into what she has to say if she simply just spoke about issues. It's the same with anything - if you want to be heard, you have to make noise and do something outrageous. Her opinions may be more respected if she were to just say them but people would have to go looking for them rather than they be spread over the headlines and inescapable.

It is interesting, just from that headline. I thought it was only a recent thing that people over a certain age were treated in such way but clearly it was the case back then too - for an artist who had spent barely 10 years in the spotlight. It does always seem to be Madonna who gets the most stick and it is interesting to figure out why. Is it a case of people being taken back by her success and confidence so they hide that fear by undermining her? Like I say, I can't see people genuinely having these opinions about her because there is no way people will practice what they preach when they hit their 50s. I certainly won't be calming down by that age and I'll be proud of it.
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HausAlone
post Apr 15 2015, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Apr 15 2015, 04:36 PM) *
It is interesting, just from that headline. I thought it was only a recent thing that people over a certain age were treated in such way but clearly it was the case back then too - for an artist who had spent barely 10 years in the spotlight. It does always seem to be Madonna who gets the most stick and it is interesting to figure out why. Is it a case of people being taken back by her success and confidence so they hide that fear by undermining her? Like I say, I can't see people genuinely having these opinions about her because there is no way people will practice what they preach when they hit their 50s. I certainly won't be calming down by that age and I'll be proud of it.

Each time they take a photograph
I lose a part I can't get back
I wanna hide, this is the part where I dettach
Each time they write a hateful word
Dragging my soul into the dirt
I wanna die
Never admit it but it hurts

I don't wanna talk about it right now
Just hold me while I cry my eyes out
I'm not Joan of Arc, not yet...


cry.gif
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liamk97
post Apr 15 2015, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE(HausofKendrick @ Apr 15 2015, 07:17 PM) *
Each time they take a photograph
I lose a part I can't get back
I wanna hide, this is the part where I dettach
Each time they write a hateful word
Dragging my soul into the dirt
I wanna die
Never admit it but it hurts

I don't wanna talk about it right now
Just hold me while I cry my eyes out
I'm not Joan of Arc, not yet...


cry.gif

More reason to release this as the next single and make the HATERS feel guilty!!!
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