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> THE BIG HOUSING DEBATE, Election issue #1
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Soy Adrián
post Apr 20 2015, 10:39 PM
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It's two and a half weeks until the big day so let's (belatedly) start thrashing out some of the key issues in Election 2k15.

First up - housing. Where do we build? What do we build? Who will live there? Who will pay for it? Do we even need any more? (yes, the answer to that one is yes)

The Greens' housing spokesperson has just rather inadvertently highlighted a slight hitch in big housing drive with this gem:

QUOTE
If you want to get very technical there are concerns about the availability of bricks

Yup, that sounds like a valid concern.
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Kath
post Apr 21 2015, 06:39 AM
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Apr 20 2015, 11:39 PM) *
It's two and a half weeks until the big day so let's (belatedly) start thrashing out some of the key issues in Election 2k15.

First up - housing. Where do we build? What do we build? Who will live there? Who will pay for it? Do we even need any more? (yes, the answer to that one is yes)

The Greens' housing spokesperson has just rather inadvertently highlighted a slight hitch in big housing drive with this gem:
Yup, that sounds like a valid concern.


It doesn't matter how many new homes are built - I doubt very few first-time buyers will get their hands on them (those that do will probably be sons and daughters of already established property developers and are just starting their own 'portfolio'). They'll all end up in the 'buy-to-let' market within a few years .


This post has been edited by Kath: Apr 21 2015, 06:40 AM
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Soy Adrián
post Apr 21 2015, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE(Kath @ Apr 21 2015, 07:39 AM) *
It doesn't matter how many new homes are built - I doubt very few first-time buyers will get their hands on them (those that do will probably be sons and daughters of already established property developers and are just starting their own 'portfolio'). They'll all end up in the 'buy-to-let' market within a few years .

It matters fundamentally how many are built because it dictates the market supply - increasing it enough will push prices down and actually make them affordable for more people.

(and obviously the less prices go up, the less attractive to buy-to-let landlords as they can't be as confident in selling for a profit)
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Crazy Christmas
post Apr 21 2015, 01:52 PM
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OP, do you intend to start each topic in turn or can I start another now? Don't want to step on anyone's toes!
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Qassändra
post Apr 21 2015, 02:02 PM
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You can start your topic on immigration Chris.
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Crazy Christmas
post Apr 21 2015, 02:18 PM
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Apr 21 2015, 03:02 PM) *
You can start your topic on immigration Chris.



LOL. You cannot possibly know what topic I had in mind. wacko.gif
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Popchartfreak
post Apr 21 2015, 07:55 PM
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for me this has been the number one social issue for the last decade. The power-that-be want to keep supply limited as it pushes up prices and profits when demand is high. The government have no control over what private builders do (and they will only build to make a profit anyway), so I say (as always) sod them all, we need a mass council house building programme. The council I work for has increased these (but there is precious little room in a small urban area without building on open space) and council house numbers are now back to 2006 levels after declining steadily since the 80's, but really this is just pissing in the ocean.

There needs to be enough housing to remove ALL tenants from the private sector that are forced to live in crappy, squalid, cramped megabucks-doshing landlords who can pretty get cash off the taxpayer carte-blanche because those in need have no alternative local-government properties to be housed in. Right To Buy is the evil cause of all this problem. Tories are wishing to expand this to private sector social housing at the cost of the taxpayer (again!). Anyone living in social housing who can afford to buy a cheap house can afford to move into the private sector. With enough council housing rented landlords will be forced to sell up (except for those giving good value, well-kept properties) and suddenly house prices will drop and everyone who wants to buy will have much better chances to afford it.

Council-house rents get used to maintain the housing stock and is recycled, any profits could be used for other important local government stuff, or more house-building. Building houses creates jobs, more tax paid to the government, more money to spend on products. They are assets owned by all of the local people, not money lost to the well-off private sector. I also firmly believe in second-homes in rural, (and coastal) areas being taxed much more highly (as per Libdem policy) as they don't live there, contribute little to the local economy, and make it harder for poor people who DO live there to stay local. I am in favour of any policy which stops the promotion of houses as an effective way to maximise profits on savings over the long-term. If you are rich, well-off, have savings then use a bank, dabble in stocks and shares, and stop keeping house prices artificially high in order to get rich on the struggling backs of those who are priced out.

So there!

Come the revolution, as the Hitchhikers Guide might have said, fat-cat property-speculators will be first against the hypothetical wall....

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ChristmasEve201
post Apr 21 2015, 09:33 PM
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Stop getting in the way if the free market and me getting wich!!
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Suedehead2
post Apr 22 2015, 07:08 PM
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I spent a lot of time on trains yesterday as I was visiting my new nephew (five days old today biggrin.gif ). That gave me time to read an Observer survey on opinion on various topics, including housing. It showed overwhelming support for the statement that the lack of affordable housing was one of the most important issues. There was strong support for the statement that it was important to build lots of new houses to keep pace with demand. People don't seem to have been asked whether they were happy for some of those new houses to be built near where they lived. Somehow, I suspect that idea will have been met with less enthusiasm and therein lies the problem. As a further complication, people with older children would generally like those children to have the option of staying within the area when they left home.

Everything this government has done on housing has resulted in prices increasing. That may win them some votes from people who already own their home, but it doesn't help people not yet on the housing ladder. By throwing various subsidies around, they are making the problem worse, not better.
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Popchartfreak
post Apr 27 2015, 06:07 PM
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I'm gratified to see politicians pay so much attention to my policy suggestions - the Greens have more or less announced what I've been droning on for for years on housing, and Labour are desperately trying to edge a little towards it, while still being gutless enough to announce policies that will do nothing resolve the long-term problem - such as stamp duty breaks for first-time buyers (Coalition been there done that waste of time) and promises of 200,000 new homes a year (only matching the vacuous Tory promises). Not actual COUNCIL houses, mind you, which are deliverable with cash, these are magic houses which just spring out of magic beans at no cost to the government and tax payer. So just like the last election bullsh*tpromises then.

So, the Greens are the most left-wing-leaning party available in England, it seems. At least in some policies.....
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Kath
post Apr 27 2015, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Apr 21 2015, 12:28 PM) *
It matters fundamentally how many are built because it dictates the market supply - increasing it enough will push prices down and actually make them affordable for more people.

(and obviously the less prices go up, the less attractive to buy-to-let landlords as they can't be as confident in selling for a profit)


As long as there are enough people in this country who will NEVER be in a position to even dream about owning a house (and there are millions of them) - then landlords will always buy up housing stock - the fact that the more there are means the prices go down is just a bonus for people adding to their 'portfolio'.


This post has been edited by Kath: Apr 27 2015, 10:27 PM
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Soy Adrián
post Apr 27 2015, 10:33 PM
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QUOTE(Kath @ Apr 27 2015, 11:25 PM) *
As long as there are enough people in this country who will NEVER be in a position to even dream about owning a house (and there are millions of them) - then landlords will always buy up housing stock - the fact that the more there are means the prices go down is just a bonus for people adding to their 'portfolio'.

Are you saying that falling prices won't make them any more affordable?
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Kath
post Apr 28 2015, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Apr 27 2015, 11:33 PM) *
Are you saying that falling prices won't make them any more affordable?


Of course falling prices will make it easier for some - but I doubt many on minimum wage will suddenly find themselves able to buy - they'll be stuck in the rental market for the rest of their lives.
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dandy*
post Apr 28 2015, 09:19 PM
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I can see Kath's point on this one. If you're earning anywhere near the minimum wage then a couple could probably just about afford a house if they never have any children or loans or anything else that takes up their income - but even then you're talking the absolute entry level property with absolutely no potential to move up the housing ladder from there on in.

House prices are just ridiculous. Mr D* and I looked to move last year but soon gave up on that idea when we realised that it costs you about an extra 100K for one guest sized bedroom and ever so slightly more room in your iamspamspamamidiner. It's ludicrous. I really haven't got a clue how we can ever escape this situation now either, we're essentially slowly heading right back to a situation where the privileged few become the landed gentry of the country and everyone else finds themselves as tenants. Bring back window tax for anyone who owns more than one property!



edit: Argh - I just fell foul of my own word filter!!!! biggrin.gif


This post has been edited by dandystar: Apr 28 2015, 10:15 PM
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Popchartfreak
post Apr 28 2015, 09:43 PM
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and down in Dorset house prices approach mad London prices so those doing low-paid jobs have no chance unless they want to pay 100k for a one-bed flat in an area with subtsance abuse problems.

Wages are not London wages they are England wages.
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Kath
post Apr 29 2015, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE(dandystar @ Apr 28 2015, 10:19 PM) *
I can see Kath's point on this one. If you're earning anywhere near the minimum wage then a couple could probably just about afford a house if they never have any children or loans or anything else that takes up their income - but even then you're talking the absolute entry level property with absolutely no potential to move up the housing ladder from there on in.


Plus - you'd have to move to somewhere like Nelson & Colne or Accrington or somewhere like that! Its a vicious circle!

The housing position has just got too out of control. Its time to face the fact that a huge amount of people (hard working as they may be) will NEVER own a home. What could be done is to ensure that there is affordable, decent rental accommodation - and for employers to be enforced to pay employees the 'living wage'. Sadly it'll never happen.
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Crazy Christmas
post Apr 29 2015, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE(Kath @ Apr 27 2015, 11:25 PM) *
As long as there are enough people in this country who will NEVER be in a position to even dream about owning a house



As the saying goes, where there's a will, there's a way though. They should never say never. I thought we'd never own a house with me being on long term sickness benefits as no-one would give us a mortgage but wife's employer gave us a house loan, a private mortgage, all legal and worked out by solicitors, to enable us to buy the house we were renting. A substantial cash gift from my mum for a 25% deposit helped too! Did anyone see the Newsnight/Newsbeat debate last night? A lass said that if people can't buy a home in the town or city where they live or work, then move to a cheaper place and buy a cheap property there. She got a lot of criticism but she's spot on. She resents paying taxes for people to stay on Housing Benefit in rented places for life. She said that young people should do more to help themselves.


This post has been edited by Common Sense: Apr 29 2015, 05:15 PM
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Doctor Blind
post Apr 29 2015, 05:12 PM
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Or alternatively never commit to buying a house and enjoy all that extra spending money you have to see the world and live life to the full, whilst your peers end up living in a squalid and poorly built flat in SE London that they'll still be paying back debts from when they are 85.
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Crazy Christmas
post Apr 29 2015, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Apr 29 2015, 06:12 PM) *
Or alternatively never commit to buying a house and enjoy all that extra spending money you have to see the world and live life to the full, whilst your peers end up living in a squalid and poorly built flat in SE London that they'll still be paying back debts from when they are 85.



Yes but when you own a property you have something to leave to your kids. Renting is dead money really as it never becomes yours.
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Rudolph
post Apr 29 2015, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE
If you want to get very technical there are concerns about the availability of bricks


Bricks are also good for smashing politicians house windows biggrin.gif if we want to get technical on this
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