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> Irish equal marriage referendum, Big day for Ireland
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Irish equal marriage referendum
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Joe ho ho!
post May 22 2015, 08:09 AM
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It's a big day in Ireland today, lots of my friends are Irish and my boyfriend is also from Dublin, so I'm feeling the pressure and nerves from a lot of them.

I thought I'd open a new thread, as the voting begins and the results roll out tomorrow.
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t=SpunderfulXmas
post May 22 2015, 08:37 AM
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Yes yes yes yes removed for spam
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Sceryl_Streep
post May 22 2015, 08:43 AM
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I'm doubly interested in this. 1 because it ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE A YES VOTE and 2 because the DUP keep blocking it here based on ''cross community concern'', that becomes less and less realistic if even IRELAND vote yes. Their reaction will be quite interested if it does get a yes vote, not that they will change of course but the pressure will definitely increase on them.
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5 Silas Frøkner
post May 22 2015, 09:17 AM
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What monster voted no?
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Joe ho ho!
post May 22 2015, 09:26 AM
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QUOTE(Silas @ May 22 2015, 10:17 AM) *
What monster voted no?

I was going to ask the same thing...

I wish I had not created a poll, as it just inflicts anger and resentment. I feel as though 'everyone should be allowed to have an opinion'/freedom of speech is thrown around too generally now, and there should be a line drawn when it comes to simple facts of human rights. If you think you are better/more deserving of particular rights than other people, then your opinion is wrong.

I know the church has a massive hold on Ireland still, with the divorce referendum only passing with 50% of the vote in 1997, and abortion still illegal, but I hope this goes through tomorrow, it'll be such a sad day for so many if it doesn't.


This post has been edited by Joe.: May 22 2015, 09:26 AM
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Sceryl_Streep
post May 22 2015, 09:29 AM
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I'd like to think the 'no' vote is a troll, but then again I am surrounded by ostensibly liberal, intelligent people every day and they are all staunchly against it. I actually think if there was a vote in NI it would be a pretty big victory for the 'no' campaign, so let's hope they don't get any ideas on THAT.
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Suedehead2
post May 22 2015, 09:35 AM
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Reading this might make you a bit emotional

http://metro.co.uk/2015/05/22/irish-people...edible-5209884/
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nickthenoodle
post May 22 2015, 10:06 AM
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Good luck to Ireland! This could set a very interesting precedent either way. If it passes then the argument that Marriage Equality is being forced upon the many by the few will be dead in the water.
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ionderella
post May 22 2015, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE(Silas @ May 22 2015, 12:17 PM) *
What monster voted no?

AlexRange is back. Coincidence? MAYBE
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ChristmasEve201
post May 22 2015, 11:05 AM
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The big cities (Dublin basically) are liberal and will vote Yes but its the largely rural areas which are conservative and more likely to still have a large mass going population. I hope it goes through. As for Northern Ireland - as SF say there should be a referendum but as Jahmkm said above i doubt the DUP will care about pressure - they are basically always against equality and rights whether it be religion, colour or sexuality until they no longer are allowed to have the opinions by law so theyll never change until they are pushed.

There would def be a no vote in a ref here.


This post has been edited by steve201: May 22 2015, 11:05 AM
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Slade
post May 22 2015, 11:07 AM
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Absolute yes, hopefully ongoing secularisation in general will be enough to triumph even somewhere where the church still has such an impact. Good luck to Ireland, marriage equality would very much be wonderful.
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Yuki On Ice~
post May 22 2015, 11:26 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 22 2015, 10:35 AM) *
Reading this might make you a bit emotional

http://metro.co.uk/2015/05/22/irish-people...edible-5209884/


Wow, that's really powerful stuff, it definitely did make me a bit emotional ha. Really hope they can get this through, it'd be a big step backwards if it produced the opposite result.
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Noahspike
post May 22 2015, 12:06 PM
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QUOTE(Silas @ May 22 2015, 10:17 AM) *
What monster voted no?

QUOTE(Joe. @ May 22 2015, 10:26 AM) *
I wish I had not created a poll, as it just inflicts anger and resentment. I feel as though 'everyone should be allowed to have an opinion'/freedom of speech is thrown around too generally now, and there should be a line drawn when it comes to simple facts of human rights. If you think you are better/more deserving of particular rights than other people, then your opinion is wrong.

I know the more popular, 'plausible' points put forward by the 'No' side centre around concerns about the impact a 'Yes' outcome would have on the institution of the family (i.e. leading to a society where it's 'normal' for a child to be without a mother or a father), as well as civil marriage for gay couples being unnecessary due to the rights and entitlements which already exist in Ireland as part of same-sex civil partnerships. For instance, these were the main points given by an openly gay man in a loving relationship debating for the 'No' side on The Late Late Show a few weeks ago so, while the core subject of the referendum has been manipulated somewhat and taken away from simply giving gay couples the oppotunity to avail of civil marriage, I don't think it's fair to assume everyone voting 'No' today is inherently homophobic. There's definitely a lot of ignorance out there about what exactly this referendum is about though.

I'm strongly in favour of a 'Yes' and am cautiously excited today as that outcome is looking probable, although I do think there'll be an unexpectedly large proportion of silent 'No' voters. Regardless of the actual result though, it's been amazing to see (through Facebook mainly, as I'm living abroad) the level of support for gay people that this referendum has brought out over the last few months. There are guys I went to school with not long ago who would have contributed to there being quite a homophobic atmosphere there and who are now writing articulate posts online about acceptance and equality. My (presumably straight) 15 year old brother and his friends are completely at ease voicing their support of a 'Yes' vote, which I'm sure means a great deal to any peers of theirs who may currently feel uncomfortable about their sexuality. This feels like such a historic day (you only have to look at the pictures in the article Suedehead posted to see that!) and I can't help feeling proud of my country for getting behind this so much!

If anyone's interested, former Irish President Mary McAleese gave an extremely compelling (and long!) speech about why she's voting in favour of marriage equality and also clears up a lot of the uncertainties around what people are actually voting for:


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Sceryl_Streep
post May 22 2015, 01:54 PM
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Most of the points put across by the 'No' campaign are a SCORCHED EARTH type affair. What about people who CAN'T have children, does that mean their marriage is less valid? Even if they are infertile by birth or some other issue beyond their control? It's a very dangerous line to draw in the sand to say that ONLY those who engage in a heterosexual marriage with the express purpose of producing children have a right to call themselves a married couple.

And for any gays out there (Ms. Mills the arch contrarian springs to mind) who vote 'no', I really don't know what to say or think at all. It's not like you are being FORCED to get married. And the idea that voting no represents a celebration of diversity is a crock too. It represents a continuation of the notion that homosexual relationships are lesser than heterosexual ones, that they should 'make do' with already having the same essential rights, because after all what difference does it make if it's exactly the same in everything but name. It's essentially saying they ACCEPT that being gay means they are, on some level, less than a straight person and that should NEVER be ok.

The only real concern I have about all this, and I am fairly certain of a yes vote, is that this will add even more fuel to the fire of the DUP with regards the dangerous and regressive 'Conscience clause'. Paul Givan said in the paper the other day (after the gay cake judge found the company in breach of the law) that this is all leading the way of Christian's having their rights repressed and they are at the bottom of some kind of ridiculous hierarchy of rights. Utter f***ing shit. You've had millennia of dominance because nobody else was organised enough, powerful enough or rich enough to be able to say 'hang on, maybe you're wrong' and now that religion is FINALLY being treated EQUALLY it's as if they are minority citizens themselves. It's so utterly hilarious I can barely stop from bursting out laughing every time I read about it. Sadly in NI there is a very strong set of 'Oh I'm OKAY WITH THE GAYS so long as they don't BE GAY NEAR ME'. My mum is staunchly in that camp, as are the majority of people I know. Those who aren't openly homophobic, anyway.
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Qassändra
post May 22 2015, 04:12 PM
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frankly it's unnatural and disgusts me

what next, compulsory eurovision?
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Joe ho ho!
post May 23 2015, 08:33 AM
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Results are coming in and it's looking positive in these very early stages.
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Candlelit Snow
post May 23 2015, 09:07 AM
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I can't see this passing unfort.

Ireland is too religious and in the pocket of The Vatican.

In a few years hopefully it will though.
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rafik4u
post May 23 2015, 09:12 AM
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Early results say YES up to 2:1 margin smile.gif

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/refer...n-31246520.html


This post has been edited by rafik4u: May 23 2015, 09:13 AM
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Candlelit Snow
post May 23 2015, 09:17 AM
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If that's true great news but I'm surprised! Ireland is usually v conservative and religious and the no campaign had big American dollars behind it!
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Sceryl_Streep
post May 23 2015, 10:24 AM
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The thing is though the Catholic church has lost some of its power in the last few years thanks to all the various scandals. It's obviously far from being powerless and obsolete but even compared to say, 2010, it's a lot less likely to be the defining factor for people. Plus they played a low key campaign in general, though obviously lots of other groups played the same shit anyway.
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