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> Greece, the debt crisis and the Grexit
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jark
post Jun 24 2015, 01:33 PM
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I thought it would be quite interesting to have a topic about this in here seeing as this story has become so big and is now reaching a climax.

Do you think Greece will exit the Eurozone (ie. default on its debts and stop using the euro)? Should they? Or should they accept the proposals of the institutions they need money from, enforce austerity and stay in the EZ?

Personally I feel quite strongly about this, and my view in a nutshell is that the Greek government are by far least fit to rule of any government in Europe. I think Tsipras and particularly Varoufakis are walking disasters. I don't understand how they can repeatedly go to the IMF looking for bailout funds but then publicly and savagely criticise the very same people they're hoping to get several billion euros of it. It's disgusting. More than anything I feel sorry for the Greek people, who have elected a government on the basis of promises they were in no position to keep. What needs to happen is that Tsipras and his men either accept the reforms (preferable) and take the bailout funds, or simply say enough is enough and drop the euro altogether. They can't have the best of both.

But maybe you have a different opinion, so GIVE IT TO ME
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Suedehead2
post Jun 24 2015, 08:54 PM
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Greece should never have been allowed to join the euro in the first place. Some eyebrows were raised when they announced that they had satisfied the necessary conditions, but they were ignored by officials and governments who wanted as many countries as possible to join.

However, nothing can change that now, so all that can be done is to reach some sort of compromise. If Greece is to be allowed to stay in the euro, both sides will need to give ground. An exit could be absolutely catastrophic for Greece, so the government needs to do everything it can to avoid that, without being seen to go back on everything they said before they were elected.
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Suedehead2
post Jul 5 2015, 07:36 PM
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So, it looks like Greek voters have rejected the deal offered a little over a week ago. The next few days will be "interesting".
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*Tim
post Jul 5 2015, 09:09 PM
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I can't see a new deal being offered in the short term
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Doctor Blind
post Jul 5 2015, 09:16 PM
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Euro just dropped from £0.71 to £0.70.

It begins! ohmy.gif
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jul 5 2015, 09:19 PM
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I'm really conflicted on Greece. Part of me is siding with the Greeks because I abhor austerity and the morally bankrupt monsters that pedal it. HOWEVER part of me is with the lenders on this because the Greek government are acting like 5 year olds.

What I'd like to see is an agreement with creditors to take a haircut on Greek debt, then the Troika buy out all the creditors so they hold all the outstanding debts. They then give the Greeks a 10 year interest and repayment free period with which to get their house in order. I don't mean austerity here, but actual solutions to the long standing problems like red tape, corruption and tax evasion. During the 10 year interest and repayment free period the Greek Government must run a surplus and cannot borrow cash. Investment in infrastructure can come through the ERDF and be spent on projects that won't be white elephants like the Greek Olympic venues.

On that subject, all the previous big Greek infrastructure projects should be investigated by an independent EU team to see if they can be put to public use, and if so release some special bail-out funds to help fix them back up and get them running again.
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Popchartfreak
post Jul 5 2015, 09:50 PM
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I too conflicted. Bankers really should have done their job in the first place and not lent recklessly to people/governments that were high-risk, so yah boo sucks to them and the various governments that sat on their collective smug arses and did nothing while of this was going on. When it went t*ts up they cleverly rescued the banks by also getting Greece to pay a fortune for bad debt rather than, for example, the UK stumping up for it's own banks bad debt and putting them on life support.

That said, Greeks have to be realistic in terms of retirement age and affordibility and stopping those getting away with tax murder. The question is would they be better to default on all the debt and start from scratch with Russian block help, or is that too much for the Eurozone to swallow. The Greek Gov is banking that if the euro starts to severely drop they will get concessions.

Who's going to blink first.....?!
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Suedehead2
post Jul 5 2015, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Jul 5 2015, 10:50 PM) *
That said, Greeks have to be realistic in terms of retirement age and affordibility and stopping those getting away with tax murder. The question is would they be better to default on all the debt and start from scratch with Russian block help, or is that too much for the Eurozone to swallow. The Greek Gov is banking that if the euro starts to severely drop they will get concessions.

Who's going to blink first.....?!

That's one of the gambles the Greek government may try. They will threaten to go running to Moscow if they get nothing from the EU / IMF.
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ChristmasEve201
post Jul 8 2015, 09:47 PM
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I have no sympathy for the neo liberal IMF and their cronies their as bad as the first poster tried to make the Greek government out to be. They want 'reform of public services' which means they want to reduce help for the vulnerable - no surrender I say! It's bankers vs people!
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Popchartfreak
post Jul 15 2015, 09:14 AM
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well the IMF, who are owed money by Greece, say the "rescue" will cripple Greece for the foreseeable future.

I'm coming round to the Greeks position now fully. Whatever has happened in the past, corruption-wise (and accepting they still need reforms on a par with the rest of europe), at the end of the day the banks chose to lend money to a dodgy customer and they should take the hit for being tw*ts just like the UK has had to, which means Germany especially. Germany is doing what is best for Merkel to get re-elected not what is best for Greece and the eurozone in the long-run.

Germany still owes the rest of europe for it's 1940's bail-outs, which they caused, following it's ruin after the first world war, which they caused and the rest of europe ignored. Ignoring a crisis brewing does no-one any good, regardless who is at fault. Would have thought Germans, of anyone in the whole wide world, would know that. If the rest of the world took that view Germany would still be paying for the hundreds of billions of damages it caused a large portion of the planet in the 1939-45 period.

Greece now needs assistance from the countries it is partnered with, and that doesn't mean just delaying what it owes for eternity every time a crisis for the eurozone pops up every time due to it not being sorted.
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Hadji
post Jul 15 2015, 10:10 PM
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I'm going there on holiday next month. Hope the crisis will be over by 20th August
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jul 15 2015, 10:12 PM
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We'll be lucky if the crisis is over by 20/08/2115.
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