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> Student maintenance grants SCRAPPED, Budget 2015..
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HausAlone
post Jul 9 2015, 04:43 PM
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I am sure we have all read about this, so how do you feel? The grants have been deemed "unaffordable" with more than half a million students in England receiving one. Critics argue that many low and middle income students could be put off university by these measures.

The grants cost taxpayers £1.57bn a year. Do you agree with the cuts and the savings it will lead to or does the hindrance to those that may already struggle to afford a higher education outweigh this?

Read more about it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33444557

Interested to hear what people that have now graduated think about the maintenance grants they may/may not have recieved, current students and those that are about to start university!
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Yuki On Ice~
post Jul 9 2015, 04:51 PM
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I received these grants and I'm very disappointed they're going, they helped a lot and it's good to have just a bit less debt now. Those who are going now will have even more loans to shoulder. And that's just more debt that in the end won't be paid back to the government, shifting the burden of responsibility a lot further down the line. It's a disappointing and shortsighted policy.

I don't feel there was any need to put yet more pressure on the less well off for getting an education, it is something that shouldn't be divided by class.
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jul 9 2015, 04:57 PM
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This is a stupid move that achieves nothing. At the end of the day the students are still getting this money but because it's now loans all that will happen is the Student Debt mountain will continue to climb, students will find themselves paying off debt until they retire and it'll just become a mess for future generations to solve.

Student Finance system in E&W just isn't sustainable.
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Liаm
post Jul 9 2015, 05:01 PM
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I tweeted about this and somebody countered that "most people won't have to pay it back anyway" and that is true I suppose to an extent but then in this case this won't save much money. It's nothing but a calculated attack on the poor, yet another stumbling block to education when it should be available to everybody.
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Kath
post Jul 9 2015, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE(Silas @ Jul 9 2015, 05:57 PM) *
This is a stupid move that achieves nothing. At the end of the day the students are still getting this money but because it's now loans all that will happen is the Student Debt mountain will continue to climb, students will find themselves paying off debt until they retire and it'll just become a mess for future generations to solve.

Student Finance system in E&W just isn't sustainable.


Totally agree and in the (fairly) short term - the taxpayer is still footing the bill - but it does tend to put people off by thinking long-term (whether they end up paying it back or not - the student (and parents) that its its a looming debt in the future.

Its made my son's mind up though (he was dithering about whether to spend the next three years in an educational establishment anyway) he's definitely not going now.
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Calum
post Jul 9 2015, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jul 9 2015, 05:51 PM) *
it is something that shouldn't be divided by class.

That's the problem with the whole budget though. Purely designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
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Rooney
post Jul 9 2015, 05:38 PM
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I see this in lots of different ways. We have too many people who go to University just for the sake of it - they really shouldn't be going (it baffles me that you can get to University with 2x Ds and an E!), but then again you don't want to put people off who are middle/lower income who SHOULD be going to University.

Very similar to EMA, it's really easy to cheat the system. Lots of people who don't really need the grants, can still get them because there are loopholes to the system. So lots of tax payer money is going to students who don't need the money, they are just getting it through finding ways through the system. The problem is, the administration cost it would take to make this process effective and efficient properly would be crazy, and a massive extra cost to the taxpayer.

I think it is really sad that some people who should be going to University will be put off. But even then debt is a part of life, it sucks but a lot of people are in debt, and it's ok just as long as it is manageable.
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Winter Wombatlan...
post Jul 9 2015, 06:00 PM
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University should be a privilege and not a last resort, but it definitely shouldn't be based on monetary circumstances rather than academic skill (and especially not if they're not serious about studying and end up doing poorly in their degree, I know that doesn't apply to everyone, but still). Putting people with high academic skill but low income off is just not what should be happening.

I dunno how this really benefits anyone in the long run, cos it's just more loans on top of the huge fees already which will stifle young people's future. Kinda sad to see this mucking up so much recently (I'll forever be thankful for going before the tuition fees rose!)

(this has pretty much all already been said lol, but still v. sad to see)
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Popchartfreak
post Jul 9 2015, 08:38 PM
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the very established class system was difficult for the very poor (and we were VERY poor once upon a time), there were few chances of getting out of it in terms of universities and colleges unless you were well off (which includes the middle class), so it was essential to have grants - having a grant made my mind up to go despite much family opposition, as it meant I could manage by working for the cash to avoid my parents paying out any contributions.

In a fair society one shouldn't be able to buy your idiot offspring a bright future, while bright children end up lower down in society. The tories claim to be the party that supports those who help themselves, but what they mean is they are the party that help themselves avoid tax, keep the best jobs, get the nod from others in the same situation. Money is power. Anybody from any background could run a multi-national company. Look at what they paid the nobs that had no idea how to run banks without driving them into the ground.....

A trained chimp could have done better. Of course if any of them came from council estates in Yorkshire then I'm going to look foolish and bitter aren't I? Nahhh tongue.gif
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Suedehead2
post Jul 9 2015, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Jul 9 2015, 09:38 PM) *
the very established class system was difficult for the very poor (and we were VERY poor once upon a time), there were few chances of getting out of it in terms of universities and colleges unless you were well off (which includes the middle class), so it was essential to have grants - having a grant made my mind up to go despite much family opposition, as it meant I could manage by working for the cash to avoid my parents paying out any contributions.

In a fair society one shouldn't be able to buy your idiot offspring a bright future, while bright children end up lower down in society. The tories claim to be the party that supports those who help themselves, but what they mean is they are the party that help themselves avoid tax, keep the best jobs, get the nod from others in the same situation. Money is power. Anybody from any background could run a multi-national company. Look at what they paid the nobs that had no idea how to run banks without driving them into the ground.....

A trained chimp could have done better. Of course if any of them came from council estates in Yorkshire then I'm going to look foolish and bitter aren't I? Nahhh tongue.gif

Indeed not. After all, one of them might end up as Prime Minister. Oh, wait...
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Crazy Christmas
post Jul 9 2015, 08:47 PM
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Will this just be for new students or will it affect my daughter going in to her third year?
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Sceryl_Streep
post Jul 10 2015, 12:04 AM
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As someone who just left uni (well, last year) myself I can say I wouldn't have minded this at all. I have been quite lucky in that I was born into a family with a solid financial standing, but I still availed of the maximum amount of loans available to me. I guess, for me, debt is just part of the student experience and if there's a bit more that meant I had to pay for another few years I'd have been fine with that.

That said, given the numbers who will pay back only a fraction or even none, it kind of renders the entire thing pointless. It's a saving that probably won't actually SAVE a thing and only make it more likely for a portion of people to avoid going to Uni at all, which is not a good thing at all. I'm not opposed to cuts at all, but basically this one just seems ill thought out to me (which yes, before anyone jumps in, could be applied to most government policy).
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t=SpunderfulXmas
post Jul 10 2015, 12:56 AM
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oh crap. sad.gif
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Qassändra
post Jul 10 2015, 02:32 AM
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Totally gross policy. Even aside from the really disingenuous implications for government budgeting by assuming it's money that will be paid back to the government at some point, it makes it so that the least well-off students that make a success of themselves will end up having to pay up to an extra £10k for the privilege of having gone to university than those that didn't need grants to fund living costs. Literally a regressive tax on social mobility.
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KWEEN_DEE
post Jul 10 2015, 08:50 AM
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Surely this cut will terminate a huge number of people going to university? For a lot of poorer, less stable famillies that grant (plus probably a full time job) is needed. I mean no student is going to be able to afford London anymore.
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Harve
post Jul 10 2015, 12:59 PM
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Well I'm gonna directly suffer because of this. But if I'm lucky enough to be earning enough to actually need to pay it back, I'm not sure if I'll be complaining.
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Candlelit Snow
post Jul 10 2015, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Jul 10 2015, 02:32 AM) *
Totally gross policy. Even aside from the really disingenuous implications for government budgeting by assuming it's money that will be paid back to the government at some point, it makes it so that the least well-off students that make a success of themselves will end up having to pay up to an extra £10k for the privilege of having gone to university than those that didn't need grants to fund living costs. Literally a regressive tax on social mobility.



Well put!!!

It saved little money but impedes people from a less well off background from achieving more.
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Suedehead2
post Jul 11 2015, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE(FinalFantasy7Bes @ Jul 10 2015, 03:14 PM) *
Well put!!!

It saved little money but impedes people from a less well off background from achieving more.

Or, to borrow a phrase used by the Tories against Labour, it's a tax on aspiration.
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