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> ISIL Terrorist Jihadi John Reportdely Killed
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Houdini
post Nov 13 2015, 10:52 PM
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According to many news sources ISIL terrorist Mohammed Emwazi more commonly known as "Jihadi John" has been killed in a Drone strike by two United States drone aircraft along with a British drone.


If this is true then I think it's fantastic news and it will hopefully go some way to sparing many innocent lives. R.I.P to all of his victims!


This post has been edited by Hazza Chapman: Nov 13 2015, 11:10 PM
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Candlelit Snow
post Nov 13 2015, 11:07 PM
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'Spearing'? I hope not :/

Good riddance. Awful 'human' being.
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Suedehead2
post Nov 13 2015, 11:17 PM
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We are supposed to believe in a judicial process in this country. He should have been arrested and charged, not killed in this way. Yes, that is more complicated and time-consuming, but it is what makes us (or should make us) better than terrorists.
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Candlelit Snow
post Nov 13 2015, 11:51 PM
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Attacking a country takes you out of jurisprudence and places you in a state of war with said country.
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Qassändra
post Nov 13 2015, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 14 2015, 12:17 AM) *
We are supposed to believe in a judicial process in this country. He should have been arrested and charged, not killed in this way. Yes, that is more complicated and time-consuming, but it is what makes us (or should make us) better than terrorists.

Yes, I'm sure he was about to just hand himself over to us. Unless you believe in actual targeted action to make that happen, the choice is either assassination or doing nothing. I'm quite happy that someone happy to murder people and parade their deaths in front of the world is killed rather than allowing them to continue doing that, in honesty. There's a reason people rarely shed tears for a mass murderer shot by a police operation.
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Rooney
post Nov 14 2015, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Nov 13 2015, 11:57 PM) *
Yes, I'm sure he was about to just hand himself over to us. Unless you believe in actual targeted action to make that happen, the choice is either assassination or doing nothing. I'm quite happy that someone happy to murder people and parade their deaths in front of the world is killed rather than allowing them to continue doing that, in honesty. There's a reason people rarely shed tears for a mass murderer shot by a police operation.


Agreed. Sometimes you just cannot let these people walk, whether they're free or in prison. I see the arguments why people would rather we arrested them and put them through a trial, but don't agree with it in cases like this one.

But I thought the rumours were Jihadi John was on the run from ISIS?
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Suedehead2
post Nov 14 2015, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Nov 13 2015, 11:57 PM) *
Yes, I'm sure he was about to just hand himself over to us. Unless you believe in actual targeted action to make that happen, the choice is either assassination or doing nothing. I'm quite happy that someone happy to murder people and parade their deaths in front of the world is killed rather than allowing them to continue doing that, in honesty. There's a reason people rarely shed tears for a mass murderer shot by a police operation.

So who else should be given the option to hand themselves over or be murdered? Murder suspects? Suspected rapists?

How do we demonstrate our opposition to killing people by killing people?
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Qassändra
post Nov 14 2015, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 14 2015, 02:22 PM) *
So who else should be given the option to hand themselves over or be murdered? Murder suspects? Suspected rapists?

How do we demonstrate our opposition to killing people by killing people?

You have spectacularly contrived to miss my point. It is well within our power to arrest most murder suspects and suspected rapists. If they are in another country, we can normally work with their government to extradite them. We almost always *do* seek to arrest them.

The point is that if you oppose doing anything to actually make that arrest occur, pontificating about the right of due process is pure banality - in this case, the choice was assassination or doing nothing. Choose nothing if you will, but you're choosing to prioritise a principle over the lives of people when he was more than happy to murder them in front of the world in the past. He was a continued danger to people. Are you telling me that yesterday you'd have been carping in the ear of an officer in the Bataclan while the terrorists were continuing to shoot people and insisting they should have brought them in alive? It is preferable if they are brought in alive. But it is no tragedy whatsoever if they are killed to stop them killing more innocents.

Killing murderers to stop them killing innocents is a fairly obvious opposition to killing people that comes from killing people. They are the ones actively killing people. The killing of them comes as a reaction to stop it continuing.
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Suedehead2
post Nov 14 2015, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Nov 14 2015, 01:28 PM) *
You have spectacularly contrived to miss my point. It is well within our power to arrest most murder suspects and suspected rapists. If they are in another country, we can normally work with their government to extradite them. We almost always *do* seek to arrest them.

The point is that if you oppose doing anything to actually make that arrest occur, pontificating about the right of due process is pure banality - in this case, the choice was assassination or doing nothing. Choose nothing if you will, but you're choosing to prioritise a principle over the lives of people when he was more than happy to murder them in front of the world in the past. He was a continued danger to people. Are you telling me that yesterday you'd have been carping in the ear of an officer in the Bataclan while the terrorists were continuing to shoot people and insisting they should have brought them in alive? It is preferable if they are brought in alive. But it is no tragedy whatsoever if they are killed to stop them killing more innocents.

Killing murderers to stop them killing innocents is a fairly obvious opposition to killing people that comes from killing people. They are the ones actively killing people. The killing of them comes as a reaction to stop it continuing.

The comparison with the Bataclan is completely invalid. From what I know (and, in common with everyone else, I can only go by limited information), the French police had no real choice. There were people being killed by the minute. The only way to stop that was to storm the venue and shoot the terrorists. Ideally, they would have shot to wound, but I doubt they really had time to think about that. Even if it transpires that the police killed innocent concertgoers, their action will have kept the overall death toll down.

Emwazi, OTOH, was not, as far as we know, committing an offence at the time he was killed. You never know, had he been captured, he might have been able to offer some useful information. A corpse cannot tell us anything.
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Qassändra
post Nov 15 2015, 12:03 AM
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Again - what were the odds of him ever being captured without direct action ever being taken to make that happen?
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Tyler
post Nov 15 2015, 08:42 AM
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Does anyone really think a terrorist would give any of us information? I mean unless you think capturing and torturing him holds more validity than killing on sight?

Terrorists hold no humanity. Much like a rabid dog, there is no hope when it comes to believing him continuing to exist would benefit anyone, besides other terrorists. I'm glad he no longer exists. Worthless POS.
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Nov 15 2015, 08:44 AM
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To capture him would have involved troops on the ground, risking the lives of our military again cleaning up the misguided actions of the USA and imperialism. I am against my government acting outside the judicial process but being a realist, we were never going to be able to bring him in alive without risking many lives in the process and risking our prison system being radicalised.

I do not support the death penalty, but this creature declared war on our country and the values of our continent. We're in a war with those rancid bunch of sick twisted psychopaths and in war you shoot to kill.
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Tyler
post Nov 15 2015, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 14 2015, 08:22 AM) *
So who else should be given the option to hand themselves over or be murdered? Murder suspects? Suspected rapists?

How do we demonstrate our opposition to killing people by killing people?


Demonstrate opposition?

You are really wishing for legal justice for someone who opposes people like us for living and breathing? You really think he deserves the respect of trial? You lose that right when you kill innocent people out of the ignorant mindset of wanting to eradicate people on the stance of brainwashed religious practices.
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Suedehead2
post Nov 15 2015, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE(toxic_air @ Nov 15 2015, 08:49 AM) *
Demonstrate opposition?

You are really wishing for legal justice for someone who opposes people like us for living and breathing? You really think he deserves the respect of trial? You lose that right when you kill innocent people out of the ignorant mindset of wanting to eradicate people on the stance of brainwashed religious practices.

No you don't. Everybody has the right to a fair trial, no matter how heinous their alleged crimes.
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Popchartfreak
post Nov 15 2015, 11:52 AM
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I agree. I'm not sorry he's dead, but I would prefer him to live a full life having been fairly convicted and to live to see the failure of his evil ways rather than die convinced he's going to paradise a martyr for a just cause.

Once you make exceptions to the right to a fair trial, you end up with Guantanamo, and assumed guilt before evidence has been seen. The authorities already do too much of that as we've seen from and endless list of miscarriages of justice, including people executed for crimes we now know they did NOT commit. The end do not justify the means, and the money spent on vengeance against one individual should be being spent on cutting off their cash power base, and tracing where it's all coming from and doing something about that. They can't fund terrorism without money.
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Qassändra
post Nov 15 2015, 11:59 AM
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I think there is a very, very obvious difference here between Jihadi John and Guantanamo though - with Guantanamo we *had the ability* to put them all on trial. Hence why it was - and remains - a total scar on civilisation.

In a war situation unlikely to resolve any time soon, where someone is murdering innocents and shows little sign of stopping, and where we are unwilling to intervene to create a situation where we can bring these people to justice, I am infinitely more comfortable with the likes of Jihadi John being killed rather than allowing them to kill others. That is the key point - unless you are willing to do anything to make that justice happen, anything you have to say on justice is merely a bromide.
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Houdini
post Jan 20 2016, 01:35 AM
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Jihadi John's death has now been confirmed by ISIS, now hopefully the many thousands of them left will follow.
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