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Christmas Cherry...
post Dec 9 2015, 09:50 PM
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Angela Merkel has just been announced as TIME's person of the year, being the first woman to individually have this title since 1986 (Corazon Aquino), and the fourth woman individually in total since 1927 (Wallis Simpson (1936), Queen Elizabeth II (1952).

Many perceive Merkel as a very powerful woman, especially within European politics. However, in a more general sense, how do you all perceive woman in power?

(The inspiration for this thread came from my friends survey, which I will plug here again. These questions raise interesting talking points happy.gif)

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/X8DHPW2


This post has been edited by Santa's Lotto: Dec 9 2015, 09:50 PM
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Klampus
post Dec 9 2015, 09:52 PM
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Not really relevant to the topic sorry but that painting is awful. laugh.gif
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Christmas Cherry...
post Dec 9 2015, 09:52 PM
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QUOTE(Frootincense @ Dec 9 2015, 09:52 PM) *
Not really relevant to the topic sorry but that painting is awful. laugh.gif


the eyes really creep me out laugh.gif
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CodySleighBell-y
post Dec 9 2015, 10:08 PM
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QUOTE(Santa @ Dec 9 2015, 01:50 PM) *
how do you all perceive woman in power?
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HausAlone
post Dec 9 2015, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE(Santa @ Dec 9 2015, 09:50 PM) *
how do you all perceive woman in power?

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ʟɪɴᴅsʟᴇɪɢʜ.
post Dec 10 2015, 12:53 AM
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I cant at Haus' reply omg, I don't even know how to follow up that response rotf.gif

I mean I think we definitely need more females in power, not just politically but in general, to give young girls people to look up to etc, the only female pm in the UK has been Margaret Thatcher and I don't think she's really role-model material rolleyes.gif I like to think more people view woman as being just as capable as men now than not, but there's always gonna be somebody who doesn't I guess unsure.gif



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LexC
post Dec 10 2015, 01:33 AM
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I approve of powerful women

#BottomForHillary
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liamk97
post Dec 10 2015, 02:27 AM
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I think there are plenty of powerful women out there but I don't see why it's necessary for little girls to have a precisely a woman there as a role model. I mean, as a boy, I didn't just look up to men just because we share the same gender. I think women have proven many a time that they are more than capable at being successful and, on a general, day-to-day basis, I don't think people are subjected to as much sexism as they'd make out.
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ʟɪɴᴅsʟᴇɪɢʜ.
post Dec 10 2015, 08:45 AM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Dec 10 2015, 02:27 AM) *
I think there are plenty of powerful women out there but I don't see why it's necessary for little girls to have a precisely a woman there as a role model. I mean, as a boy, I didn't just look up to men just because we share the same gender. I think women have proven many a time that they are more than capable at being successful and, on a general, day-to-day basis, I don't think people are subjected to as much sexism as they'd make out.


Say there's a little girl that dreams of being a prime minister one day, she sees only a man in that position, she may think that there's a reason woman aren't allowed to do it or may be told she shouldn't want to be a politician as it's 'more of a man's job.' Sexism is present in more places than you realise, just because you aren't subjected to it in your day to day life doesn't mean it doesn't exist for other people. Look at the amount of jobs that are still very much mostly male, bus drivers, mechanics, joiners, builders, there's still more male fronted bands than female too tongue.gif
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Christmas Cherry...
post Dec 10 2015, 11:40 AM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Dec 10 2015, 02:27 AM) *
I think there are plenty of powerful women out there but I don't see why it's necessary for little girls to have a precisely a woman there as a role model. I mean, as a boy, I didn't just look up to men just because we share the same gender. I think women have proven many a time that they are more than capable at being successful and, on a general, day-to-day basis, I don't think people are subjected to as much sexism as they'd make out.


On a day to day basis woman are still paid less than men in certain areas. 1/3 girls feel they have been sexually harassed at some point in their life. On a daily basis dress codes are enforced in schools because they will "distract boys in learning". I could literally go on and on, and this is just the tip of the iceberg of what is happening in the Western world. In other countries around the world tens of thousands of young girls, many who have not even hit puberty yet are forced into marriages with men where they are then assaulted. To say sexism, even in a general sense, is overexagarated is completely wrong imo. Yes, nowadays things are better, more woman are able to lead the lives they want, we are still not there and there are still a lot of ladders to climb.
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Colm
post Dec 10 2015, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Dec 10 2015, 02:27 AM) *
I don't think people are subjected to as much sexism as they'd make out.


WHAT? sad.gif

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liamk97
post Dec 10 2015, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE(SantasLindsleigh @ Dec 10 2015, 08:45 AM) *
Say there's a little girl that dreams of being a prime minister one day, she sees only a man in that position, she may think that there's a reason woman aren't allowed to do it or may be told she shouldn't want to be a politician as it's 'more of a man's job.' Sexism is present in more places than you realise, just because you aren't subjected to it in your day to day life doesn't mean it doesn't exist for other people. Look at the amount of jobs that are still very much mostly male, bus drivers, mechanics, joiners, builders, there's still more male fronted bands than female too tongue.gif

Politics is definitely an area where sexism still exists, but there's plenty of people out there to say that this girl could do it and I doubt she'd still have the same view as when she got older. If she did, then she probably wouldn't be cut out for leading the country anyway, as harsh as that may seem! I don't think that sexism doesn't exist, I just think people like to make more of an issue than they need to or try to turn something around so it looks like they're being degraded when in fact they just need to get over it. Yeah, there's jobs that may still be predominantly male but that doesn't necessarily mean anything sexist is going on. I work in a restaurant as a waiter and all the others are female, the boss included, but it never crossed my mind that I may be being discriminated against or that it's a 'woman's job'.

QUOTE(Santa @ Dec 10 2015, 11:40 AM) *
On a day to day basis woman are still paid less than men in certain areas. 1/3 girls feel they have been sexually harassed at some point in their life. On a daily basis dress codes are enforced in schools because they will "distract boys in learning". I could literally go on and on, and this is just the tip of the iceberg of what is happening in the Western world. In other countries around the world tens of thousands of young girls, many who have not even hit puberty yet are forced into marriages with men where they are then assaulted. To say sexism, even in a general sense, is overexagarated is completely wrong imo. Yes, nowadays things are better, more woman are able to lead the lives they want, we are still not there and there are still a lot of ladders to climb.

You make good points about the true sexism that exists, but when I said about sexism being over-exaggerated, and it was probably best to have said this in my initial post, I was referring more to how society is too focused on being offended by literally everything. I mean, does it really offend someone if a guy wolf-whistled at them? Does it really affect someone if a panel of judges has an uneven ratio of men to women? Can they suddenly not see life in the same way ever again? Of course it doesn't. This faux-outrage just teaches people to be victims all the time and that they should moan about how unfair things are instead of going out there and proving themselves capable. This is why I don't like the idea of there needing to be female role models for little girls who shout the praises of women from the roof top because in many cases it just adds to the issue of making it seem like females can't do anything for themselves and need to be guided the way, when the fact of the matter is that females can do things and can do it by themselves, for themselves.
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Colm
post Dec 10 2015, 02:11 PM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Dec 10 2015, 02:03 PM) *
You make good points about the true sexism that exists, but when I said about sexism being over-exaggerated, and it was probably best to have said this in my initial post, I was referring more to how society is too focused on being offended by literally everything. I mean, does it really offend someone if a guy wolf-whistled at them?



It's not offense that is the problem. It's merely that the woman can't go about her day without a complete stranger passing comment on her and entering her space.
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liamk97
post Dec 10 2015, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE(Cauldron @ Dec 10 2015, 02:11 PM) *
It's not offense that is the problem. It's merely that the woman can't go about her day without a complete stranger passing comment on her and entering her space.

But what does it matter? If a man was to get physical with a woman or to insult her, then it would be an issue (although in that case, wtf does it matter if it's sexism, the serious issue is that it's assault), but to merely wolf-whistle is not something I feel deserves a hissy-fit about. Just move on. If we're getting to the point where complimenting each other is now being deemed sexist, then there's a problem.
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Colm
post Dec 10 2015, 02:40 PM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Dec 10 2015, 02:22 PM) *
But what does it matter? If a man was to get physical with a woman or to insult her, then it would be an issue (although in that case, wtf does it matter if it's sexism, the serious issue is that it's assault), but to merely wolf-whistle is not something I feel deserves a hissy-fit about. Just move on. If we're getting to the point where complimenting each other is now being deemed sexist, then there's a problem.



It matters if the woman is intimidated. There is a problem when you're complimenting a complete stranger in such a way that is unwelcome. You may think it does not harm but it creates an environment where a woman has to avoid going into certain parts of towns if they are more likely to attract attention.

I think sexism is not the correct term but if you can come up with a better one then that would be great.
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Klampus
post Dec 10 2015, 02:43 PM
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Wolf-whistling relates to the whole objectification of women, that the only thing that they're good for is the way that they look. I don't think it's complimentary when, using stereotypes, a 50 year old man is wolf-whistling at a 20 year old woman. It's more intimidation.
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liamk97
post Dec 10 2015, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE(Frootincense @ Dec 10 2015, 02:43 PM) *
Wolf-whistling relates to the whole objectification of women, that the only thing that they're good for is the way that they look.

But if a man said to a woman, "you're really clever" with no other reference to any other of their qualities, that wouldn't be objectification or suggest they're only good for being clever, so why is so much different when it's in regards to looks?

Perhaps it's just the way I am, but I've always seen it to be a choice to be offended. Sometimes you're right to be, sometimes you're not, but if you adjust your attitude to something, you can make it no longer offensive to you. That's why I don't like this idea of everyone having to be a victim. Something like a wolf-whistle can easily be brushed off if you have the right attitude, but today's society just teaches people to be offended, be victims, moan about things. Going back to the subject of powerful women, perhaps it is necessary for girls to specifically need them - I'd certainly welcome those who teach others not to be so focused on whether something is sexist or not but just be able to toughen up and change negatives into either positives or non-issues.
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Klampus
post Dec 10 2015, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Dec 10 2015, 03:05 PM) *
But if a man said to a woman, "you're really clever" with no other reference to any other of their qualities, that wouldn't be objectification or suggest they're only good for being clever, so why is so much different when it's in regards to looks?

Perhaps it's just the way I am, but I've always seen it to be a choice to be offended. Sometimes you're right to be, sometimes you're not, but if you adjust your attitude to something, you can make it no longer offensive to you. That's why I don't like this idea of everyone having to be a victim. Something like a wolf-whistle can easily be brushed off if you have the right attitude, but today's society just teaches people to be offended, be victims, moan about things. Going back to the subject of powerful women, perhaps it is necessary for girls to specifically need them - I'd certainly welcome those who teach others not to be so focused on whether something is sexist or not but just be able to toughen up and change negatives into either positives or non-issues.

That's a completely ignorant way of looking at things and ignoring the long history of the relationships between men and women. Women have predominantly been looked at for the way they look and not for their other qualities, particularly how clever they are. Saying someone is clever would also not be happening in a intimidating matter, that's the other point. Wolf-whistling is intimidating, especially when it's normally coming from someone much older than the woman. They're normally doing it in a derogatory manner which you wouldn't be doing if you were in conversation with someone praising certain qualities, whether it being their intelligence or their looks.
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liamk97
post Dec 10 2015, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE(Frootincense @ Dec 10 2015, 03:13 PM) *
That's a completely ignorant way of looking at things and ignoring the long history of the relationships between men and women. Women have predominantly been looked at for the way they look and not for their other qualities, particularly how clever they are. Saying someone is clever would also not be happening in a intimidating matter, that's the other point. Wolf-whistling is intimidating, especially when it's normally coming from someone much older than the woman. They're normally doing it in a derogatory manner which you wouldn't be doing if you were in conversation with someone praising certain qualities, whether it being their intelligence or their looks.

Well like I say, perhaps it's just the way I am. Women can equally do all that to men, I know it's happened to me but I've been able to move on from it because I know it's not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, whatever the intention of the female was. Perhaps some people do feel genuinely intimidated or offended, but that I'm afraid is something they're going to have to deal with mainly themselves because everyone else can't and shouldn't do it for you.
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Klampus
post Dec 10 2015, 03:23 PM
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You've been able to move on from it because it doesn't have the same connotations when it comes from a woman. The connotations that wolf-whistling mainly has is that it reinforces the idea that women are the objects of men and, going even further than that, that men can do whatever they want with a woman.
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