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Second EU referendum
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vidsanta
post Jun 29 2016, 06:58 AM
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Do you think there should be a 2nd referendum?

If there were to be one, should it be made absolutely clear in advance that the result would this time be binding?

ISTM that if this had been made clear for last week's vote, it would have made people consider their choice a lot more carefully...
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Doctor Blind
post Jun 29 2016, 07:05 AM
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I think there should be a general election with the terms of the exit put up for debate.

A 2nd referendum would be like the treaty that both Ireland, The Netherlands and France voted against but was brought in by the back door by the EU - known as the Lisbon treaty. Unfortunately we have to accept the will of the people, that is democracy - not keep asking the question until you get the answer you want.
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Crazy Christmas
post Jun 29 2016, 07:07 AM
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No second referendum and both Boris and May are reportedly not planning to call an election. With a majority of 12 I wouldn't either.
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Doctor Blind
post Jun 29 2016, 07:14 AM
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 29 2016, 08:07 AM) *
No second referendum and both Boris and May are reportedly not planning to call an election. With a majority of 12 I wouldn't either.


I hope they force you back to work Chris. biggrin.gif
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Sceryl_Streep
post Jun 29 2016, 08:28 AM
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I think a second election is very likely, though it depends on who Labour end up having as leader. If Jeremy stays on, whoever is Tory leader absolutely should consolidate support and will probably end up doing similarly/slightly better anyway.

As for another referendum, I think not. As Dr. Blind said having it as part of an election campaign discussion would work. Personally I think by the time that happens enough will have transpired that not triggering article 50 will become the logical outcome anyway.
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T83:Y96
post Jun 29 2016, 11:05 AM
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I don't think there should be a second referendum, but a general election where parties choose where to stand on the "invoke Article 50 or not" stance. I suspect there would only be a Boris Johnson-led Conservative Party and UKIP suppprting the invocation though.
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Qassändra
post Jun 29 2016, 11:42 AM
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There should be a second referendum, but on what deal we accept - the Norway option, the Switzerland option, the Canada option, a different option, or sod it all and just stay.
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Suedehead2
post Jun 29 2016, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 29 2016, 08:07 AM) *
No second referendum and both Boris and May are reportedly not planning to call an election. With a majority of 12 I wouldn't either.

They have said they wouldn't call an "immediate" election. That means they could hold an election next spring and still claim to have told the truth. That would be a novel experience for Johnson.
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Crazy Christmas
post Jun 29 2016, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jun 29 2016, 08:14 AM) *
I hope they force you back to work Chris. biggrin.gif



Well they haven't so far as I'm disabled. smile.gif
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Joe ho ho!
post Jun 29 2016, 03:16 PM
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I'm quite torn. Because while I feel like it's a cop-out to have a second referendum, I feel like the amount that the country is falling apart already and the amount of people regretting their choice, it also feels wrong to just blindly go ahead with the departure from the EU, pushing the country into deeper shit.
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Liаm
post Jun 29 2016, 03:44 PM
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I respect democracy but it just worries me that so many leave voters now regret it or didn't realise the consequences when they voted. To think that leaving the EU could be something that the majority of the country DON'T want, because the gap was so small and it seems a lot of people regret voting leave, is pretty bad, but people really should have done their research before voting out of the EU as it's such a big thing, and perhaps they'd have made the "right" decision for them, one that they didn't regret.
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vidsanta
post Jun 30 2016, 05:30 AM
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Whatever happens iro Brexit for Britain, at least we've exposed the myth that we're the only Eurosceptic country in the EU. Our vote has given others the confidence to speak out.
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Sceryl_Streep
post Jun 30 2016, 08:44 AM
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I think it's been widely accepted for some time that at least a handful of others have been just as Eurosceptic as the UK. It's just that they have leaders who aren't stupid enough to trust their electorate with such a wide ranging decision, perhaps more so now that they've seen the the nonsense happening here.
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vidsanta
post Jun 30 2016, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE(Qween @ Jun 30 2016, 09:44 AM) *
I think it's been widely accepted for some time that at least a handful of others have been just as Eurosceptic as the UK. It's just that they have leaders who aren't stupid enough to trust their electorate with such a wide ranging decision, perhaps more so now that they've seen the the nonsense happening here.


The problem is, if you ignore high levels of Euroscepticism, it builds up to levels that fuel dangerous extreme-right parties like Marine Le Pen's Front Nationale in France, or a similar one in Austria.

Fortunately in Britain there's never been significant levels of support for parties either of the extreme right or left, because our mainstream parties have always been inclusive enough to encompass most political views. Only when political opinions not covered by any one mainstream party arise, are voters forced to look elsewhere.

Unfortunately, our main 3 parties have been papering over the cracks for so long, that they failed to recognise that the building was collapsing around them. Cameron's referendum was one last desperate (failed) attempt to prop up the building, but win or lose, the problem was never going to go away.
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jun 30 2016, 09:36 AM
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There will be a second referendum by 2020 but it won't be on the EU wink.gif


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Umi
post Jun 30 2016, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jun 29 2016, 08:05 AM) *
A 2nd referendum would be like the treaty that both Ireland, The Netherlands and France voted against but was brought in by the back door by the EU - known as the Lisbon treaty. Unfortunately we have to accept the will of the people, that is democracy - not keep asking the question until you get the answer you want.

People voted no to Lisbon the first time around for reasons even less valid than the worst reasons of leave voters in this referendum. Calling the second referendum for Lisbon was absolutely the right thing to do, especially as people were significantly better informed the second time around and weren't instead voting on the basis of shit like "THE EU WILL INSERT TRACKING MICROCHIPS INTO US ALL IF WE VOTE YES".

If you think having a second referendum would be comparable to the reruns of Lisbon then personally I would advocate a second referendum.
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vidsanta
post Jul 1 2016, 05:23 AM
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QUOTE(Umi @ Jun 30 2016, 05:16 PM) *
People voted no to Lisbon the first time around for reasons even less valid than the worst reasons of leave voters in this referendum. Calling the second referendum for Lisbon was absolutely the right thing to do, especially as people were significantly better informed the second time around and weren't instead voting on the basis of shit like "THE EU WILL INSERT TRACKING MICROCHIPS INTO US ALL IF WE VOTE YES".

If you think having a second referendum would be comparable to the reruns of Lisbon then personally I would advocate a second referendum.


The problem when trying to sell something, is that only the pro's are explained - the cons are left to your opponents, and it's too common a tactic to dismiss them as lies or exaggerations. Woe betide your opponents using the same tactics on you, though.

What seems to have been mostly missed though, is that if you believe in a cause strongly enough, you are prepared to overlook little 'inconveniences' like exaggerations on one side, or lost referendums on the other, to get what you want - the end justifies the means, in other words...


This post has been edited by vidcapper: Jul 1 2016, 05:29 AM
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troublepink
post Jul 1 2016, 08:20 AM
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A second referendum? Only if we can have a 'best of three' laugh.gif

Honestly though I think if there was a second, most people would vote to stay, I've read a lot about leave voters saying they regret their vote.

I've hated this whole thing, its torn friendships apart, I've never known the country to be so divided sad.gif
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vidsanta
post Jul 1 2016, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE(troublepink @ Jul 1 2016, 09:20 AM) *
A second referendum? Only if we can have a 'best of three' laugh.gif

Honestly though I think if there was a second, most people would vote to stay, I've read a lot about leave voters saying they regret their vote.


What I've read says different - the number of regretful leavers minus the number of regretful remainers comes to less than the referendum majority.
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T83:Y96
post Jul 1 2016, 10:00 AM
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Well, with Johnson out of the Tory leadership race, a pro-Europe party winning the next general election looks very likely.
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