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> The Official Labour Foot-Shoot Thread, Mk II, You know what reminds me of House of Cards? House of Cards.
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Brett-Butler
post Jul 9 2016, 12:55 PM
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Time for a new Labour related tomfoolery thread.

Angela Eagle has announced that her leadership big begins on Monday. Let's see if she changes her mind again.
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Qassändra
post Jul 10 2016, 11:44 AM
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The word is that the NEC is going to make Corbyn need to get nominations. This is going to end badly.
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Brett-Butler
post Jul 10 2016, 12:23 PM
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If that happens, and Corbyn doesn't get enough nominations, where will that leave him and the £3 socialists that supported him? What are the chances that he'll be the one that splits away and forms his own party with the affiliated joining for the ride (or joins the Socialist Worker's Party, given that almost all the placards from his most recent rally seem to come from them), or will he stubbornly stay in Labour, as the brand is much more valuable than Corbyn's?
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Suedehead2
post Jul 10 2016, 12:28 PM
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The other rumour (albeit with no named individuals quoted) is that pro-EU Tories could join with like-minded Labour people to form a new party. OTOH, they could just join the Lib Dems.
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Danny
post Jul 10 2016, 12:42 PM
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LOL, the fact the Labour "moderates" are now trying to fix the election by keeping Corbyn off the ballot says it all.

How the hell is Angela Eagle going to win a general election, if she evidently thinks she can't even beat Corbyn in a proper election?
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Brett-Butler
post Jul 10 2016, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE(Danny @ Jul 10 2016, 01:42 PM) *
LOL, the fact the Labour "moderates" are now trying to fix the election by keeping Corbyn off the ballot says it all.

How the hell is Angela Eagle going to win a general election, if she evidently thinks she can't even beat Corbyn in a proper election?


I'm guessing that she's presuming that she'll have a message that's more in line with and will connect with the general public more than Jeremy Corbyn. I think she could, but not to the extent that she could win a general election. Labour better hope they've got someone else lined up if the leadership contest is forthcoming.
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Qassändra
post Jul 10 2016, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE(Danny @ Jul 10 2016, 01:42 PM) *
LOL, the fact the Labour "moderates" are now trying to fix the election by keeping Corbyn off the ballot says it all.

How the hell is Angela Eagle going to win a general election, if she evidently thinks she can't even beat Corbyn in a proper election?

By that token everyone who ever won a leadership election was de facto the most electable candidate with the public. Obviously nonsense.

However, you're right for the wrong reason. It's highly unlikely Angela Eagle would've won a general election even had she beaten Corbyn in a fair fight (as may well still happen - a fair fight, that is). The party is going to be obliterated for quite some time by the split if Corbyn is kept off the ballot. Short of an obvious environmental disaster, I can't think of any one thing that would do more to make the Greens a significant force.
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Qassändra
post Jul 10 2016, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 10 2016, 01:28 PM) *
The other rumour (albeit with no named individuals quoted) is that pro-EU Tories could join with like-minded Labour people to form a new party. OTOH, they could just join the Lib Dems.

Why would they leave a party on the basis of a crap ineffectual leader to join another party with a crap ineffectual leader?
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Danny
post Jul 10 2016, 04:28 PM
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jul 10 2016, 02:20 PM) *
I'm guessing that she's presuming that she'll have a message that's more in line with and will connect with the general public more than Jeremy Corbyn. I think she could, but not to the extent that she could win a general election. Labour better hope they've got someone else lined up if the leadership contest is forthcoming.


But, at the end of the day, an election is an election, and the truly talented politicians manage to win over any electorate. Blair and Cameron had no problems winning over their party electorates, after all, despite party members' disagreements with them. If a politician doesn't have the skillset to even make arguments that are convincing to their own party, they sure as hell won't be able to convince the general public.

Plus, I come back to the point that the failure of the Remain Campaign showed us how much appeal the Labour "moderates"' platform has with the public -- i.e. less appeal than Corbyn had in the May local elections.
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Danny
post Jul 10 2016, 06:53 PM
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Incidentally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Wallasey Labur Party formally deselects Eagle in the next few weeks.

Would that effectively invalidate her candidacy in the leadership election? After all, Labour could hardly put forward as their PM candidate someone who won't even be an MP after the next election.
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Suedehead2
post Jul 10 2016, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE(Danny @ Jul 10 2016, 07:53 PM) *
Incidentally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Wallasey Labur Party formally deselects Eagle in the next few weeks.

Would that effectively invalidate her candidacy in the leadership election? After all, Labour could hardly put forward as their PM candidate someone who won't even be an MP after the next election.

Assuming the next election isn't until 2020, there will be new boundaries in place at the next election. I'm sure she would be able to find a constituency party prepared to select her.
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Peenus Fly Trap
post Jul 10 2016, 07:23 PM
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Angela Eagle can f*** off. She hasn't landed, she's fluttering around looking like a right old tit, and Jeremy Corbyn has the largest leader mandate in party history. He is a man of the people. She is an oligarch of the banks.
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Rooney
post Jul 10 2016, 07:34 PM
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He might be a man of the people, but he's fast killing the Labour party. UKIP and the Tories are pissing their pants at him.
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Qassändra
post Jul 10 2016, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE(#BJSCSLAYERRRRRR @ Jul 10 2016, 08:23 PM) *
Angela Eagle can f*** off. She hasn't landed, she's fluttering around looking like a right old tit, and Jeremy Corbyn has the largest leader mandate in party history. He is a man of the people. She is an oligarch of the banks.

An oligarch of the banks...who was nominated by John McDonnell for Deputy? She's a crap choice of unity candidate for many reasons, but yeah, that really isn't one of them.

(and no, he doesn't have the 'largest leader mandate in party history'. That would be Blair, who got well over a million votes in 1994)
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Qassändra
post Jul 10 2016, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE(Danny @ Jul 10 2016, 05:28 PM) *
But, at the end of the day, an election is an election, and the truly talented politicians manage to win over any electorate. Blair and Cameron had no problems winning over their party electorates, after all, despite party members' disagreements with them. If a politician doesn't have the skillset to even make arguments that are convincing to their own party, they sure as hell won't be able to convince the general public.

It's kind of different if your party membership is leagues apart from the general public on the majority of issues. Blair and Cameron had party electorates that were happy to make compromises to win. The Labour Party membership - quite avowedly - is not. Which, okay, fair enough. But let's not pretend an inability to persuade that electorate is any sign of innate unelectability. Particularly when we're talking someone like Angela Eagle who has far bigger things you could point to to show that.
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Harve
post Jul 10 2016, 07:45 PM
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jul 10 2016, 01:23 PM) *
If that happens, and Corbyn doesn't get enough nominations, where will that leave him and the £3 socialists that supported him? What are the chances that he'll be the one that splits away and forms his own party with the affiliated joining for the ride (or joins the Socialist Worker's Party, given that almost all the placards from his most recent rally seem to come from them), or will he stubbornly stay in Labour, as the brand is much more valuable than Corbyn's?

I can see this benefiting both sides in the long run.

We need a populist left party à la Podemos. I wouldn't necessarily vote for Podemos but...
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LexC
post Jul 10 2016, 07:48 PM
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I don't know if this is my tin foil hat moment but I feel like Eagle's purpose is more to just kickstart the nominations process (especially pertinent if the plan is to require Corbyn to get them and then fail) than to be a serious candidate for the leadership. You've got to respect her for being one of the first openly lesbian MPs ect but a galvinising and inspiring leader she is not.
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Peenus Fly Trap
post Jul 10 2016, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Jul 10 2016, 08:37 PM) *
An oligarch of the banks...who was nominated by John McDonnell for Deputy? She's a crap choice of unity candidate for many reasons, but yeah, that really isn't one of them.

(and no, he doesn't have the 'largest leader mandate in party history'. That would be Blair, who got well over a million votes in 1994)


She represents the status quo. For the Union to survive, we need Corbyn, we need to re-nationalise, we need to move to the left in line with Scotland and Wales, we need to clip the wings of Murdoch. Otherwise, oligarchs will rule, the gap between richer and poorer will widen and the same Eton toffs will rule and Scotland will go independent, taking the North East and maybe everything down to Liverpool with it, and nothing else will change and the Social State will be dismantled. Neo-liberalism must be challenged. Angela Eagle and other non-socialists must be challenged. Corbyn and fellow socialists are the way.
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Brett-Butler
post Jul 10 2016, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE(Harve @ Jul 10 2016, 08:45 PM) *
I can see this benefiting both sides in the long run.

We need a populist left party à la Podemos. I wouldn't necessarily vote for Podemos but...


TUSC (Trade Unionist & Socialist Coalition) tried this in 2015, however despite fielding 135 candidates they only averaged 269 votes each. What's interesting about them is that their leader, David Nellist, is a former Labour MP who was kicked out of the party for his Militant tendencies, which I imagine that some people would like to find parallels with Corbyn et al. A look at his votes received in General Elections whilst with Labour and post-Labour should clearly demonstrate just how valuable the Labour Party name is to election chances, even if you have been a long-standing MP.

And if you saw TUSC's Party Political Broadcast last year, you'll know exactly why they failed so miserably. The only thing that I took away from it was "Thatcher, Thatcher Thatcher, boo, boo, boo", which did nothing to set the party as a forward-looking alternative to Labour, instead just continuing to be entrenched in the issues of 30 years ago.

Perhaps there is a market for a modern, forward-thinking, socialist party for the 21st century, but so far, all I can see are bored, tired rehashed versions of the 20th century models.
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Qassändra
post Jul 10 2016, 08:39 PM
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Why do we *need* a Podemos? Who benefits from Labour's vote being split?
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