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> Public Service Announcement - Confidential Confirmations, Changes are happening, please read this
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5 Silas Frĝkner
post Jul 10 2016, 05:55 PM
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Hello all!

We would like to bring your attention to a very specific section of the rules that the spirit of which we have felt has become increasing flouted in recent months. That is the section that effectively constitutes the "Confidential Confirmations Process"(CCP). This is a very key part of our contest as it greatly aids us in the veto process but also creates a level playing field for all the songs. As the rules stood, you were able to trade potentials as long as there were multiple options and at no point did you reveal what you would be entering. While we encouraged that this take place in National Threads, the absolute majority of this takes part via PM and through other off-site mediums. This has long been tolerated on trust grounds, however it has become our concern that the spirit of the rules has got lost along the way.

This removes the level playing field and gives nations an unfair advantage. We have also become uncomfortable with the scale of these PM and off-site feedback gathering exercises which further distorts the playing field. In order to attempt to level the playing field once more we will be changing the rules to mean that going forwards your national threads will be where you can solicit feedback on your entires. That means No PMs, no Skype messages, no Plug.dj whoring your "potentials". We would like to stress that no veto points are assigned for any discussion that takes place within the Buzzjack Song Contest forum within the current framework or the forthcoming 4th framework.

Violation of the new rules in relation to the CCP will result in a suspension from BJSC, as it does in the existing rules. We are highlighting this in particular because this PSA serves as your one and only warning. We will be posting a revised set of rules shortly, please take the time to read through them.

We understand that you may be feeling that this is a harsh "power hungry moderator" move, but there is no malice behind this in fact our intention could not be further from this. While this remains a contest we will work to ensure that the competition is as fair as it can possibly be. What has been happening with increasing frequency cannot be described as fair. We feel that this is the best solution to get around this culture that has developed and also to return the forum to being more open about potentials, leading to increased discussion and more discoveries for people.

On a personal note, this is a rule change I have been very keen to make for many years as it came about as an unintended side effect of the original veto process. The amount of lost discussion, community building, music discovery and transparency has never sat very well with me. So I hope that as a silver lining to what went down this afternoon, this will be a positive change.

With love,
The BJSC Mods.
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*Tim
post Jul 10 2016, 05:58 PM
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Just a quick question, what if like I want a mod to advice me on a possible veto or if it could be vetoworthy. Would that be allowed?

For the rest, I think these rules are very fair
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HausAlone
post Jul 10 2016, 05:58 PM
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I fully support this now!

I also think it would be really good personally to see everyone's potentials in the forum because it means more music discoveries for me heehee.gif
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Christmas Cherry...
post Jul 10 2016, 05:59 PM
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this all seems very fair and i'm really glad to see it laid out like this! excited to see national threads hopefully be more active as a result!
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Michael Bubré
post Jul 10 2016, 06:01 PM
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To be clear here - people are allowed to post potentials in their national threads to get feedback there, yes?

This seems difficult to enforce but I suppose it could be a step in the right direction if this private potential sharing is creating an un-level playing field.
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Oricon
post Jul 10 2016, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE(Bré @ Jul 10 2016, 07:01 PM) *
To be clear here - people are allowed to post potentials in their national threads to get feedback there, yes?


Yes, people can most certainly although at no given time can the owner of such national thread reveal the identity of their entry until the opening of the semi-final stage!
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Candlelit Snow
post Jul 10 2016, 06:03 PM
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Will this not lead to more incidence of people 'stealing' potenshes?

Also for example, I assume this applies to those WITHIN BJSC? Like, we could ask advice to people on the forum who aren't in the competition?
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MerryFlynnmas
post Jul 10 2016, 06:03 PM
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Okay after a few reads, I am on board and agree biggrin.gif I do think its fair biggrin.gif
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gooddelta
post Jul 10 2016, 06:05 PM
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This seems fair to be honest, as people can share their potentials if they want to and anybody not sharing potentials can't feel hard done by about being at a disadvantage because they've had equal opportunity to share them should they wish to.
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Oricon
post Jul 10 2016, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE(#BJSCSLAYERRRRRR @ Jul 10 2016, 07:03 PM) *
Will this not lead to more incidence of people 'stealing' potenshes?

Also for example, I assume this applies to those WITHIN BJSC? Like, we could ask advice to people on the forum who aren't in the competition?



This applies to those both within the bjsc and those who don't participate in the contest. If someone who doesn't participate but wish to contribute an opinion to such nation, then we would kindly advise them to post in the national thread instead of using the PM.
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MerryFlynnmas
post Jul 10 2016, 06:07 PM
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The only real concern I have is what Meekul said would this not encourage people to steal people's song's more?
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dandy*
post Jul 10 2016, 06:08 PM
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Interesting.

I don't have too much of a view either way but, before it happens for the first time, the only downside I can think of is that people will have to accept that other members won't have 'stolen' their entries if someone else happens to already have the same track in mind as one you post as an option.
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Cameron
post Jul 10 2016, 06:10 PM
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I think then people should save the messages they send to people so that they have proof if a theft accusation arises.

Plus, people stealing entries for an online forum contest? What a low point in their life.
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5 Silas Frĝkner
post Jul 10 2016, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE(*Tim @ Jul 10 2016, 06:58 PM) *
Just a quick question, what if like I want a mod to advice me on a possible veto or if it could be vetoworthy. Would that be allowed?

Yes of course! In this case it's more checking that you're applying the framework correctly rather than a mod saying "this is soooooooo good. winner 4 sure" so wouldn't be covered.

QUOTE(Bré @ Jul 10 2016, 07:01 PM) *
To be clear here - people are allowed to post potentials in their national threads to get feedback there, yes?

This seems difficult to enforce but I suppose it could be a step in the right direction if this private potential sharing is creating an un-level playing field.
Yes that is exactly correct.

It's probably a little easier to enforce than the situation we find ourselves in now.
QUOTE(#BJSCSLAYERRRRRR @ Jul 10 2016, 07:03 PM) *
Will this not lead to more incidence of people 'stealing' potenshes?

Also for example, I assume this applies to those WITHIN BJSC? Like, we could ask advice to people on the forum who aren't in the competition?
I wouldn't imagine more so than currently. BJSC used to be more open a long long time ago about potentials and there were very few instances then.

It does indeed apply to people within BJSC. If you're asking someone outwith the contest their opinion then that is fine. The reason for that is because they will not be taking part, so you gain no advantage, no matter how slight, from consulting that person.
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Oricon
post Jul 10 2016, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE(HarryEzra @ Jul 10 2016, 07:07 PM) *
The only real concern I have is what Meekul said would this not encourage people to steal people's song's more?


It has proven previously that even within plug, people have accused others of stealing other people's song so if someone had that intention in the first place there's nothing we can really do to change their mind set. In the past national threads were utilised more with people offering their potentials on the thread and it wasn't a major problem back then, so we hope it won't be this time round!
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5 Silas Frĝkner
post Jul 10 2016, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE(Oricon @ Jul 10 2016, 07:05 PM) *
This applies to those both within the bjsc and those who don't participate in the contest. If someone who doesn't participate but wish to contribute an opinion to such nation, then we would kindly advise them to post in the national thread instead of using the PM.

I'd disagree. Consulting externals doesn't distort the playing field.


However I do agree that we would encourage the national thread
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dandy*
post Jul 10 2016, 06:13 PM
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QUOTE(Cameron @ Jul 10 2016, 07:10 PM) *
I think then people should save the messages they send to people so that they have proof if a theft accusation arises.

Plus, people stealing entries for an online forum contest? What a low point in their life.

I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying... I'm not suggesting people WILL actively steal entries, I'm saying that people need to be aware that posting a song as a potential shouldn't give you any more claim to it over those of us who choose not to post options in threads.

edit... unless you were responding to Michael of course! Hadn't spotted his comment...


This post has been edited by dandy*: Jul 10 2016, 06:14 PM
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mAddy Xmas
post Jul 10 2016, 06:13 PM
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I like this and totally looking fwd to next contest (lol this one hasn't even started yet bjsc>>>>my life atm)
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gooddelta
post Jul 10 2016, 06:14 PM
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QUOTE(HarryEzra @ Jul 10 2016, 07:07 PM) *
The only real concern I have is what Meekul said would this not encourage people to steal people's song's more?


Hopefully most people will take a sort of 'gentleman's agreement' approach that if somebody has expressed their desire for an entry, others leave it alone.

The flipside of this is that if people publicly consider five songs, they of course won't be able to use four of those, which sort of rules everyone else out of morally using the other four too unless they pubicly state 'I'm not considering that anymore' or something along those lines.

Of course, what also could happen is that not everybody will have the time or desire to read everybody else's national threads. So if I post five potentials and we all have a great discussion about it, one of the silent voters who only swan in to listen and vote, and don't participate in the rest of the forum, may not have seen it in my thread, and it might look like they're stealing, even if that isn't the intent.

It's not foolproof by any means but hopefully it will work out. On the plus side it's better than the old artist reservation thread, where you definitely couldn't grab somebody's four unused potentials if they didn't confirm until the very last moment!


This post has been edited by gooddelta: Jul 10 2016, 06:14 PM
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Liаm
post Jul 10 2016, 06:17 PM
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I feel like this is a bit too far in some ways as it stands but I understand that we need something that can be enforced rather than what we find ourselves in now and it's probably something that we have to get used to. The veto kinda felt like this at first and now it's second nature when I think of BJSC and in my head I already sort of start to calculate whereabouts it will be on the veto points scale laugh.gif


Surely if they're posted here rather than privately though, it's LESS likely they'd be stolen? If it was on plug you can just be like "oh I didn't know" but if the concrete proof of someone posting it on here is there, then it's easier to see where you could have found it. I think maybe people should just relax a bit and realise some people will just have found the same song and want it and if someone confirms it first it isn't the end of the world laugh.gif And like Cam said it's really a low if you did actually consciously steal someone's entry for an online song contest...
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