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Jonjo
post Jul 22 2016, 11:29 AM
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Well, 'One Dance' is likely to be enjoying a 15th week at number 1 this week ('yay' dry.gif) and it is also very likely to be knocked off of #1 next week by Major Lazer et al. who look set to become a sturdy, long runner again.

Now my question is, IF Major Lazer manage to get about 9+ weeks at number 1 out of it (I'm not saying it will, just speaking hypothetically here, although at this moment in time it looks likely) do you guys think this will push the OCC into looking at switching the "rules" up a bit more, to make the charts less "stale" and more varied? Whether that be an increase in "chart points"/having to stream a song more to get a chart point or adding radio airplay (Oh GOD NO... PLEASE!)

I'm genuinely interested to see what people think will happen and what you guys think should happen if it was to go that way.
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Ryan.
post Jul 22 2016, 11:42 AM
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I'm not sure I'd be on board with making a chart point need more streams as that'd see overall "chart sales" fall, where the average of around 60k we have at the moment is pretty spot on. I wouldn't be against adding YouTube nowadays, it's as much of a stream as a Spotify listen is so that may cause a variation when music videos get released. Maybe in that case we can make streams worth less as there'd be more of them, but it'd still not be that much different to what we have now as YouTube will just be Spotify or Apple Music 2.0.

I think something is going to happen judging by the articles that are coming out in the media recently, and I think Cold Water is going to be a long running #1. I'm just not sure what.

My ideal scenario would to make a sale worth more than a sale which sounds very weird. The only way that could be accomplished is using a format I suggested a few months ago, by making streams the unit the chart is based on rather than sales. So instead of Drake going to #1 on 60k sales equivalent, he'd be going to #1 on 6m streams equivalent or whatever it works out at. Then have every actual sale be worth 200 streams or whatever, so sales are worth double the amount they are now without having to go the other way and have #1s on 30-40k. For me this would be a real move into the future and something that just makes sense as streaming will inevitably be worth 95% of music consumption in a matter of years and at the point it would seem pointless to still be converting them into chart sales when nothing is actually being sold anymore.

I know it'd mean comparisons to history would then struggle to be made, but there seems to be constant indecision nowadays anyway as to what counts in record books and what doesn't. Just wipe the slate clean!
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steveh31
post Jul 22 2016, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE(Jonjo @ Jul 22 2016, 12:29 PM) *
Well, 'One Dance' is likely to be enjoying a 15th week at number 1 this week ('yay' dry.gif) and it is also very likely to be knocked off of #1 next week by Major Lazer et al. who look set to become a sturdy, long runner again.

Now my question is, IF Major Lazer manage to get about 9+ weeks at number 1 out of it (I'm not saying it will, just speaking hypothetically here, although at this moment in time it looks likely) do you guys think this will push the OCC into looking at switching the "rules" up a bit more, to make the charts less "stale" and more varied? Whether that be an increase in "chart points"/having to stream a song more to get a chart point or adding radio airplay (Oh GOD NO... PLEASE!)

I'm genuinely interested to see what people think will happen and what you guys think should happen if it was to go that way.

On one hand no as all the charts in the rest of the world are the same and we live in a "one" world chart system with songs released same day etc.

On the other hand if radio 1 and others make a big enough fuss about it they may do some alterations but not much.
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FleetSeb
post Jul 22 2016, 11:47 AM
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I like Ryan's proposal.

A less dramatic change would be to (a) not count streams from unpaying accounts - I already think this is unfair. I pay for Apple Music, why should those with free spotify accounts have their streams counted? I know advertising covers this but I just don't think it is the same; and (b) discount streams from Spotify/Apple Music curated playlists. i.e. not user created playlists, just the official sponsored ones. I quite often stick one of those on but I don't intentionally listen to all the songs I stream, I just pick one that has enough good songs to keep me interested, however, I will rarely skip a track (and if I do skip it's generally not within the 30 second limit before it is counted as a stream). To me curated playlists fulfil more of the role of a radio but with better control and no talking - they're for passive listening. I only want my streams when I actively choose to listen to an artist to be counted.
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Colm
post Jul 22 2016, 11:50 AM
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I've said this before and I'll say it again. The charts are actually starting to reflect what people are listening to rather than what people are buying. Isn't that what they SHOULD reflect?
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AcerBen
post Jul 22 2016, 11:55 AM
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QUOTE(Colm @ Jul 22 2016, 11:50 AM) *
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The charts are actually starting to reflect what people are listening to rather than what people are buying. Isn't that what they SHOULD reflect?


It should reflect trends in my view, like it always has done. There should be a pure number of streams chart but I don't agree with it being the chart.

This blog pretty much nails it:

https://medium.com/@sammyandrews/off-the-ch...76f0#.levonwgnx


This post has been edited by AcerBen: Jul 22 2016, 11:56 AM
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steveh31
post Jul 22 2016, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE(Colm @ Jul 22 2016, 12:50 PM) *
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The charts are actually starting to reflect what people are listening to rather than what people are buying. Isn't that what they SHOULD reflect?

Indeed but we have grown up for 60 years with it being what you have bought not what you are listening to which is what upsets a lot of people.

An example I used the other day if you bought Bryan Adams on week 1 in the chart when he was knocked off 19 or 20 weeks later you purchase made no contribution to the other weeks at least now we know what people are listening to BUT the reason people are listening to it is because they are not searching for new music just listening to same playlists and songs.

People need to be more adventurous and search for new music.
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JosephCarey
post Jul 22 2016, 12:04 PM
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I'd find it interesting if they could add Shazams to the chart. It pretty much reflects the new music that people are hearing and are interested in what it is. Not sure if this is something that could or should happen, I'm just thinking out loud really, but the current Shazam top 10:

1. Jonas Blue feat. JP Cooper - Perfect Strangers
2. Kungs vs. Cookin' on 3 Burners - This Girl
3. Calum Scott - Dancing On My Own
4. Kent Jones - Don't Mind
5. The Chainsmokers feat. Daya - Don't Let Me Down
6. Christine and the Queens - Tilted
7. Clean Bandit feat. Louisa Johnson - Tears
8. Shawn Mendes - Treat You Better
9. M.O - Who Do You Think Of?
10. Adele - Send My Love (To Your New Lover)

Looking pretty fresh, I'm sure you all agree! There are of course flaws to this and it's probably not 100% practical either but it does look way more interesting and also reflects the music people are hearing too, not just on the radio but out and about.
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Colm
post Jul 22 2016, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE(steveh31 @ Jul 22 2016, 12:56 PM) *
Indeed but we have grown up for 60 years with it being what you have bought not what you are listening to which is what upsets a lot of people.

An example I used the other day if you bought Bryan Adams on week 1 in the chart when he was knocked off 19 or 20 weeks later you purchase made no contribution to the other weeks at least now we know what people are listening to BUT the reason people are listening to it is because they are not searching for new music just listening to same playlists and songs.

People need to be more adventurous and search for new music.



Then why mix the charts in the first place if they don't measure the same thing? It should have been thought about a lot more before the added streaming. It's not like when downloading replaced physical purchases.
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dancember
post Jul 22 2016, 12:18 PM
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I think what needs to happen is for people to just accept that long-running #1s are going to become the norm here now, like they are in the US.

I wouldn't support the idea of making a download worth more than a sale, or having Shazams in the chart.
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Rudolph
post Jul 22 2016, 12:20 PM
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I can see OCC will end up doing something, if the track hogs the top spot for 10 weeks plus, but I think its heading that way, until something big drops. That's the way I'm reading into it.
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AcerBen
post Jul 22 2016, 12:30 PM
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QUOTE(danG @ Jul 22 2016, 12:18 PM) *
I think what needs to happen is for people to just accept that long-running #1s are going to become the norm here now, like they are in the US.

I wouldn't support the idea of making a download worth more than a sale, or having Shazams in the chart.


That would be fine if the chart itself being boring was the only consequence, because that isn't important. It's the effect a slow chart has on the music industry and its ability to break new artists that is the problem.
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Dircandydircane
post Jul 22 2016, 12:44 PM
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If a change is brought in, I really hope it's not because of the feats of "One Dance" & "Cold Water". I can't really see it as the new normal quite as much as it is a perfect storm of anomalies. I mean, "One Dance" being #1 for 15 weeks isn't representative of streaming in general, since it's by far the longest running #1 on there to date. Its reign at the top of the official chart was just a case of fortunate timing to narrowly stay ahead of increasingly weaker competition. If Justin Timberlake's song was released a month or so later, it probably would have either interrupted or ended Drake's run then. In any case, Bryan Adams proves that sales have been capable of yielding a longer run at #1 than streams have thus far.

As for "Cold Water", it's a Major Lazer & Justin Bieber song co-written by Ed Sheeran, between the 3 of them they have the 5 most played songs of all time on Spotify. You couldn't practically come up with a more stream-primed set of names without chucking Drake on there or something. My gut instinct though is that unlike with "One Dance", there'll be a major release (given Q4 is 10 weeks away) that'll unseat "Cold Water". If not, then these are just two extreme cases that just happened to be side-by-side. Kind of like how in the US, fun. & Gotye racked up 4 months at #1 back to back, but that didn't kickstart any sort of alternative/indie pop take-over at the top of charts, it was just an anomaly.
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liamk97
post Jul 22 2016, 01:00 PM
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QUOTE(Dircadirca @ Jul 22 2016, 01:44 PM) *
If a change is brought in, I really hope it's not because of the feats of "One Dance" & "Cold Water". I can't really see it as the new normal quite as much as it is a perfect storm of anomalies. I mean, "One Dance" being #1 for 15 weeks isn't representative of streaming in general, since it's by far the longest running #1 on there to date. Its reign at the top of the official chart was just a case of fortunate timing to narrowly stay ahead of increasingly weaker competition. If Justin Timberlake's song was released a month or so later, it probably would have either interrupted or ended Drake's run then. In any case, Bryan Adams proves that sales have been capable of yielding a longer run at #1 than streams have thus far.

As for "Cold Water", it's a Major Lazer & Justin Bieber song co-written by Ed Sheeran, between the 3 of them they have the 5 most played songs of all time on Spotify. You couldn't practically come up with a more stream-primed set of names without chucking Drake on there or something. My gut instinct though is that unlike with "One Dance", there'll be a major release (given Q4 is 10 weeks away) that'll unseat "Cold Water". If not, then these are just two extreme cases that just happened to be side-by-side. Kind of like how in the US, fun. & Gotye racked up 4 months at #1 back to back, but that didn't kickstart any sort of alternative/indie pop take-over at the top of charts, it was just an anomaly.

I was thinking about this not long ago. Drake probably wouldn't have been #1 longer than, say, 6 weeks, if the likes of Calvin Harris or Justin Timberlake released a month after 'One Dance' was as its peak of popularity and, as a result, I very much doubt the media will have been quite as interested in posting articles of streaming 'ruining' the charts.

The likes of Bruno Mars, Ed Sheeran, Lady Gaga and Katy Perry are set to release albums this year so we can't be that far off from hearing the lead singles and I imagine they'll have a good chance of getting #1 if the music is right (I don't think 'Rise' is the lead single at all for Katy's new album, although it she's seemed to suggest it will be on there, and I imagine there will be much more hype from the public and media for the official lead). Of course, there's always new artists who can pop out of nowhere too. In short, I can't imagine we'll see Major Lazer at #1 for a similar period as Drake, nor can I see the same for anything that succeeds them.
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John-James
post Jul 22 2016, 01:13 PM
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I'd be here for adding Youtube views, it would make the chart much more interesting when music videos are released
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JingleBellJupes
post Jul 22 2016, 01:28 PM
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To be honest they could (and should) have sidestepped the whole issue of what the chart nowadays represents by renaming it the Popularity Chart or the Taste Chart or something like that, because that's what it is.Obviously not so naff a name, but I'm struggling to think of a better phrase for it. Top 40/100 Singles just isn't representative of the content of the charts nowadays and it's that I think which leads to so many of the debates and mixed opinions about what's on it.

We could have had the Singles Sales chart as we do now, tucked into a corner on the OCC website, and the Official Chart also as is, but called the 'Plays' chart or something on all official documentation, because it incorporates streaming too, and everyone would have been happy.


This post has been edited by 360Jupiter: Jul 22 2016, 01:30 PM
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dancember
post Jul 22 2016, 02:16 PM
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are you suggesting following Billboard and calling the chart a 'Hot' 100 rather than 'Top 100 Singles'?

Simply renaming it wouldn't make much difference, people are still going to moan about streams ""ruining"" the chart.
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Bjork
post Jul 22 2016, 02:57 PM
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I like what someone suggested a while ago, counting streams only til 1 sale is reached, then not counting for that person anymore...pretty sure the occ will do something, either cap streams or only count paid streams or exclude streams from playlists...
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