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> Possible second independence referendum
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What would you vote?
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Total Votes: 29
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Andrew.
post Sep 19 2016, 06:51 PM
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With a second independence referendum still very possible after the Brexit vote have your opinions changed since 2014?

This is something I've been thinking about a lot recently, and at the moment I just can't make my mind up laugh.gif After the Brexit result came in my gut reaction was to start supporting independence but all the issues from 2014 still exist along with the collapse in oil price.
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Andrew.
post Sep 19 2016, 06:53 PM
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Oops can someone edit the poll please? I've done it so you have to answer both questions tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Andr00w: Sep 19 2016, 06:53 PM
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Brett-Butler
post Sep 19 2016, 07:25 PM
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Fixed - added an N/A option in both.
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popchartfreak
post Sep 19 2016, 07:49 PM
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The referendum's being suggested are to do with the actual terms of the Brexit agreed, which is sensible, cos it gives total control to the Tories otherwise, with no MP votes at present permitted. Something so important needs confirmation. To assume that everyone who voted Leave holds the same views (even the 3 main Tory tits can't agree) is ridiculous or naive. I dont trust them one bit.
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Silas
post Sep 19 2016, 09:01 PM
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I'm still team Yes.

I'll pay more attention to the spending plans this time round as the Oil Price has reduced significantly, but as long as there is a strong set of nation building policies in there i'm happy to take on some debts in the early years. I also don't think the oil price will remain this low forever, the Arab states will at some point crack and reign in production to protect their finances (although if this issue brings down their cartel that'd be champion).

I've never been overly attached to currency, and actually wouldn't mind being obligated to adopt the Euro (Sweden are and just refuse to join the ERM which is the prerequisite for Euro adoption giving a de facto opt-out). The important thing for me is protecting my status as an EU citizen. I'm a huge fan of the 4 freedoms upon which the EU is founded, I think it makes life better for every European. Having that freedom of movement is important and I will do whatever I can to keep it.

The scaremongering about Spain vetoing our application is now a complete lie. The Spanish themselves have stopped making angry noises and are now sympathetic to our cause. Mainly because it's a very different set of circumstances to the succession of Catalonia as rUK is leaving the EU. The Germans support us because they want to show the EU is still strong and desirable. It also sends a shot across the bow of Eurosceptic nationalists that leaving the EU will break apart your country and cause irreparable damage.

Post EU-ref has really highlighted the differences between our nations. We have a plan, rUK don't. Hate crime has skyrocketed in rUK, no change in Scotland. (which is a minor f***ing miracle) The most startling thing about this is that the indy whitepaper was like 650 pages long and covered literally everything, and people tore it to bits. Not even 0.0000000000000000000000001% of the same level of scrutiny was aimed at the shitshow that was the Leave campaigns. EURef was a complete and utter farce from start to finish. Little England deserves the economic disaster that is coming it's way.
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Frosty Xmas Baps
post Sep 19 2016, 09:42 PM
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Farce is the only word that can be applied to that nonsensical eU referendum. My god it should have been halted when an MP DIED over it and Nazi propaganda was unveiled.
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Harve
post Sep 20 2016, 02:28 AM
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Yes
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PeaceMob
post Sep 20 2016, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE(Silas @ Sep 19 2016, 10:01 PM) *
I'm still team Yes.

I'll pay more attention to the spending plans this time round as the Oil Price has reduced significantly, but as long as there is a strong set of nation building policies in there i'm happy to take on some debts in the early years. I also don't think the oil price will remain this low forever, the Arab states will at some point crack and reign in production to protect their finances (although if this issue brings down their cartel that'd be champion).

I've never been overly attached to currency, and actually wouldn't mind being obligated to adopt the Euro (Sweden are and just refuse to join the ERM which is the prerequisite for Euro adoption giving a de facto opt-out). The important thing for me is protecting my status as an EU citizen. I'm a huge fan of the 4 freedoms upon which the EU is founded, I think it makes life better for every European. Having that freedom of movement is important and I will do whatever I can to keep it.

The scaremongering about Spain vetoing our application is now a complete lie. The Spanish themselves have stopped making angry noises and are now sympathetic to our cause. Mainly because it's a very different set of circumstances to the succession of Catalonia as rUK is leaving the EU. The Germans support us because they want to show the EU is still strong and desirable. It also sends a shot across the bow of Eurosceptic nationalists that leaving the EU will break apart your country and cause irreparable damage.

Post EU-ref has really highlighted the differences between our nations. We have a plan, rUK don't. Hate crime has skyrocketed in rUK, no change in Scotland. (which is a minor f***ing miracle) The most startling thing about this is that the indy whitepaper was like 650 pages long and covered literally everything, and people tore it to bits. Not even 0.0000000000000000000000001% of the same level of scrutiny was aimed at the shitshow that was the Leave campaigns. EURef was a complete and utter farce from start to finish. Little England deserves the economic disaster that is coming it's way.


laugh.gif


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Silas
post Sep 20 2016, 03:00 PM
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Thanks for that stunning response. Really. Just thanks. You've changed my life with just how life changing that response is
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Doctor Blind
post Sep 20 2016, 07:22 PM
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Even I'm PRO independence now - and could you annex any city in the UK that voted remain such as Exeter and London please? K thanks.
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popchartfreak
post Sep 20 2016, 08:02 PM
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Edinburgh looks kinda nice, wonder if there's any cheap flats...

Might be a nice castle going cheap in the next few years laugh.gif
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Suedehead2
post Sep 20 2016, 08:19 PM
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I looked at Edinburgh prices as soon as the EU referendum result was known. They are a bit on the high side compared with other Scottish cities sad.gif
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popchartfreak
post Sep 20 2016, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Sep 20 2016, 09:19 PM) *
I looked at Edinburgh prices as soon as the EU referendum result was known. They are a bit on the high side compared with other Scottish cities sad.gif


Yeh as expected, ta, and doh! Wimbledon Martin's dad lives there near the sea, very picturesque. Mind you a poxy bedsit in Boscombe is pushing 100k here! sad.gif
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Danny
post Sep 20 2016, 09:29 PM
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I think the SNP may have made a rare misstep by tying themselves so much to being pro-EU these last few months. According to the latest polls, although some 'No' voters from 2014 have switched over to a 'Yes' vote after the EU referendum, it's been cancelled out by a roughly equal number of 'Yes' voters going in the opposite direction. Rightly or wrongly, the perception that "Brussels" controls so much of what EU countries can do might well be undercutting one of the main arguments for Scottish independence (Scottish people making their own decisions about what to do with their country). Polls usually show SNP voters are surprisingly anti-immigration, too.
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Doctor Blind
post Sep 20 2016, 09:45 PM
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Yes, it really is a massive balls-up when you align yourself with the majority of public opinion ! 62 versus 38.
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Danny
post Sep 20 2016, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 20 2016, 10:45 PM) *
Yes, it really is a massive balls-up when you align yourself with the majority of public opinion ! 62 versus 38.


But a decent chunk of that 38% were former Scottish independence voters.


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Soy Adrián
post Sep 21 2016, 06:19 AM
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QUOTE(Danny @ Sep 20 2016, 11:12 PM) *
But a decent chunk of that 38% were former Scottish independence voters.

That's the gamble, I suppose. They may as well go for it as they're so untouchable at the moment in terms of elections.
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Silas
post Sep 21 2016, 12:13 PM
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Actually Danny there was a number of SNP voters who voted for Brexit, a sizeable chunk primarily because SNP supporters now make up about 50% of the country. The absolute majority of these voters will back independence. They want Scotland free of the UK and the EU.

You also have to remember that not all SNP voters are pro-Indy. While the majority are, there is a significant number who aren't. When I first voted SNP I was against independence.


The SNP has been conducting a massive survey recently to actually capture all of this and see who supported Yes, Bremain and who will support Yes2.
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Silas
post Sep 21 2016, 12:16 PM
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While many outside of Scotland still see the nationalists as a single issue party, the reality is that they've been in power for a long time here now and they are still receiving support because they've been doing a fairly decent job.
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Harve
post Sep 21 2016, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE(Danny @ Sep 20 2016, 10:29 PM) *
I think the SNP may have made a rare misstep by tying themselves so much to being pro-EU these last few months. According to the latest polls, although some 'No' voters from 2014 have switched over to a 'Yes' vote after the EU referendum, it's been cancelled out by a roughly equal number of 'Yes' voters going in the opposite direction. Rightly or wrongly, the perception that "Brussels" controls so much of what EU countries can do might well be undercutting one of the main arguments for Scottish independence (Scottish people making their own decisions about what to do with their country). Polls usually show SNP voters are surprisingly anti-immigration, too.

Right, SNP voters are all over the place, although their voters are still more pro-EU than the other main parties UK-wide (I concede that this may be down to their voters being Scottish). But for the SNP as a political party, hinting at being comfortable leaving the EU and the UK at the same time is completely unfeasible on so many levels if you cast your mind back to the 2014 referendum. Being rabidly pro-EU is the only option for a party. And besides, I wouldn't have joined them in the summer otherwise. biggrin.gif

The SNP's level of support isn't enormously tied to monthly or annual variations in Yes/No voters. It's not a single issue party as Silas said; it's spent nigh-on a decade running a country.


This post has been edited by Harve: Sep 21 2016, 08:11 PM
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