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> Hungarian referendum on European Union refugee quota
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Taylor Jago
post Sep 25 2016, 07:11 PM
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Next Sunday, Hungarians will head to the ballot box to vote in a referendum on whether they approve of the resettlement of Syrian refugees into Hungary.

This referendum, initiated by the Hungarian government, has been the source of much debate, with EU leader Martin Schulz calling it an "absurd idea" and "despicable", while NGOs have claimed the referendum cannot be held according to the Hungarian constitution, and some have even called for Hungary to be suspended or even expelled from the EU over the referendum.

Meanwhile, Viktor Orban, Hungary's president, is supporting a "No" vote, which according to the polls will definitely win, with the "Yes" vote having single digit percentages in the four most recent polls. Some have argued the referendum is a step towards Hungary leaving the EU, with Csaba Molnar accusing Orban's cabinet of "asking authorization from the people to leave the European Union".

With the referendum a week away, what are your thoughts on this? And is anyone holding any hope that the people of Hungary may allow the European Union to set quotas for refugee resettlement in Hungary?

I will point out that the EU's current quota for refugee resettlement in Hungary is of 1,294 refugees. Clearly having to accept a number of people fleeing war which is 0.00013% of the country's population is unacceptable.

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Emperor Silas
post Sep 25 2016, 08:12 PM
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The rhetoric coming out of Hungary at the moment is absolutely f***ing terrifying.
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LexC
post Oct 2 2016, 08:17 PM
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This referendum has been declared invalid after the opponents of the ruling party organised a large scale boycott. Thank god for small mercies!
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common sense
post Oct 2 2016, 09:49 PM
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No country should be forced by the EU to accept refugees if the people and/or the Government don't want them.
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Вuzzjack
post Oct 2 2016, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Oct 2 2016, 10:49 PM) *
No country should be forced by the EU to accept refugees if the people and/or the Government don't want them.


Well then the leader of Hungary should be campaigning to leave the EU if he doesn't want refugees. One of the rules of the EU is to accept free movement of people.

If they dont accept the refugees then they should be expelled as a result.

By the way why didnt the opponents of the ruling party just vote against Orban en masse rather than boycotting. That would have sent a clearer message to the ruling party as well as stopped a future referendum.

The amount of refugees is small so the Hungarians would have the resouces to resettle them and it seems very heartless for Orban not to support resettling.

There is historical zenophobia towards the inhabitants of the Near East by many in Hungary because of the invasion of the country by Ottoman Turks, who also ruled Syria. But this is history and those Hungarians like Orban and his supporters should embrace the modern world and realise these are people fleeing war and need a safe haven and that Hungary should play its part in resettling them.


This post has been edited by TheSnake: Oct 2 2016, 10:14 PM
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Soy Adrián
post Oct 2 2016, 10:12 PM
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It's that perverse scenario whereby you need a minimum number of people to vote for the result to be valid, and so if you all vote and lose narrowly on a high turnout it's actually a worse outcome than if you don't vote at all.
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Suedehead2
post Oct 2 2016, 10:38 PM
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I'm old enough to remember the days when millions of people were desperate to leave countries such as Hungary but were forbidden to do so. What would those people have thought if they had managed to leave Hungary only to be told by other countries to sod off?
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richie
post Oct 3 2016, 07:34 AM
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QUOTE(TheSnake @ Oct 2 2016, 11:02 PM) *
By the way why didnt the opponents of the ruling party just vote against Orban en masse rather than boycotting.


I like the fact they did this. If it needed 50% turnout to be binding then ensuring less than 50% means its null and void from the start...and if Orban does indeed try to change the constitution after the fact then that's not democratic...and shows he'd probably have changed the result in any case.

So, best possible course of action I think. Too much of a risk of the other side winning otherwise - look at Brexit.
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Qassändra
post Oct 3 2016, 04:01 PM
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I hate turnout thresholds. Anything that makes not voting more powerful than voting is a perversion of democracy.
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*Ben*
post Oct 3 2016, 04:24 PM
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This referendum was a nonsense (or should I say "common sense" like our member? - "sarcasm"). Hungary elected a f**cking goverment and the goverment should lobby at the EU to reach better treatment if they are not agreed with the distribution of refugees.
The referendum was not about the refugees, Orban just tearing apart the country. Now they say who haven't voted are traitors. He's ill, schizophonic... he needs always an enemy to scare the folk and so remain on power.

I'm glad I'm not living in the country anymore (although I miss it much). I am Hungarian but I'm ashamed of our government but I don't want to live in an always hateful atmosphere sad.gif

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Oct 2 2016, 11:49 PM) *
No country should be forced by the EU to accept refugees if the people and/or the Government don't want them.

this shows how little you know really about what's happening in the world because it's more complicated than that.
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*Ben*
post Oct 3 2016, 04:26 PM
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Oh and one more thing, the election commitee in Hungary rejected a referendum about should Hungary stay at the EU because they said it's against the Hungarian constitution.
But this referendum was OK...
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Suedehead2
post Oct 3 2016, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Oct 3 2016, 05:01 PM) *
I hate turnout thresholds. Anything that makes not voting more powerful than voting is a perversion of democracy.

Agreed. A threshold for a major constitutional change is acceptable (and should, arguably have applied in the EU referendum), but a system that positively encourages some electors to stay at home is undemocratic.
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*Ben*
post Oct 3 2016, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE(TheSnake @ Oct 3 2016, 12:02 AM) *
By the way why didnt the opponents of the ruling party just vote against Orban en masse rather than boycotting. That would have sent a clearer message to the ruling party as well as stopped a future referendum.

This way was better but I can tell you why. Most of the people in Hungary don't want refugees in the country. The most "no" voters were not all sympathisers of the ruling party but also the extrem right wing and also a lot of the left parties.
By boycotting people showed that this referendum was just a waste of money of the taxpayers, a hateful campaign and a nonsense, because there wasn't a good answer.

Although no one in Hungary but even in Europe wants mass of people from the near-east (everyone things this, even me!) but there is the humanitarian aspect of it and if Hungary votes no, it means there's no humanity in the country.
A yes vote means you're a traitor in the eyes of the right/extrem right wing voters eyes but there are almost no one in Hungary who would vote yes because they are scared of the people from the near-east and terrorists.

So this referendum has absolutely no winners.
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*Ben*
post Oct 3 2016, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 3 2016, 12:38 AM) *
I'm old enough to remember the days when millions of people were desperate to leave countries such as Hungary but were forbidden to do so. What would those people have thought if they had managed to leave Hungary only to be told by other countries to sod off?

Oh I can tell you what Hungarians says about this:
This were something different because we are in Europe and have Christian backgrounds whilst the people from the near-east are muslims and because of their religion they cannot integrate.

I don't believe in this bullshit (although I think it is somehow true they cannot be intergrated so easily) but if we didn't even give the chance then why would we be different to the terrorists? (a bit exaggerated I know sorry)
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Taylor Jago
post Oct 3 2016, 06:07 PM
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I don't really know how to feel about this. On one hand, I'm relieved that Orban's plans to close off Hungary to refugees won't go through, but on the other hand, it's sort of a hollow victory considering just 2% of the people who did vote voted Yes.

In fact, the only region to have over 2% vote Yes was Budapest. Why do the capital cities always have the best voters?
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*Ben*
post Oct 3 2016, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE(Taylor Jago @ Oct 3 2016, 08:07 PM) *
I don't really know how to feel about this. On one hand, I'm relieved that Orban's plans to close off Hungary to refugees won't go through, but on the other hand, it's sort of a hollow victory considering just 2% of the people who did vote voted Yes.

In fact, the only region to have over 2% vote Yes was Budapest. Why do the capital cities always have the best voters?

It's because in the provinces people are poorer (wel lat least in Hungary it is so), have less availability to the worldwide news and they majorly here only the news of the government so they are scared that they will be attacked and they loose their jobs.
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Qassändra
post Oct 4 2016, 12:30 PM
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QUOTE(Taylor Jago @ Oct 3 2016, 07:07 PM) *
In fact, the only region to have over 2% vote Yes was Budapest. Why do the capital cities always have the best voters?

Cities are liberalism incarnate, given their governing principle tends to be that they take all sorts.
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Qassändra
post Oct 4 2016, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 3 2016, 05:32 PM) *
Agreed. A threshold for a major constitutional change is acceptable (and should, arguably have applied in the EU referendum), but a system that positively encourages some electors to stay at home is undemocratic.

Thresholds encourage voters to stay at home by definition when set above a certain level, don't they?
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Suedehead2
post Oct 4 2016, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Oct 4 2016, 01:32 PM) *
Thresholds encourage voters to stay at home by definition when set above a certain level, don't they?

Not if the threshold is set as a proportion of those who vote. It would have been perfectly legitimate to have stated that a Leave vote above, say, 60% would be regarded as binding while anything between 50% and 60% was merely advisory. As it is, we have a 52% vote which is being (wrongly) treated as binding. If a golf club can set a two-thirds majority as a requirement for a constitutional change, 60% for a country seems entirely reasonable.
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popchartfreak
post Oct 5 2016, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Oct 2 2016, 10:49 PM) *
No country should be forced by the EU to accept refugees if the people and/or the Government don't want them.

....and no country should be forcibly bombed by the uk governments unless invited to by a majority of the population...

Problem of refugees resulting from those actions needs a moral conviction to deal with the consequences. The uk has a history of imposing its will on others then buggering off or being driven out, cos the british are sooooo much more human than foreigners.
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