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> England and Scotland players cannot wear poppies, FIFA says they are "political"
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Suedehead2
post Nov 1 2016, 08:21 PM
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England play Scotland in a World Cup qualifier on Remembrance Day, 11 November. Both sides wanted to wear poppies on their shirts (as league teams generally do on the weekend of Remembrance Sunday). FIFA, the world governing body for football, have said that their ban on "political, religious or commercial messages" applies to the poppy.

Are FIFA being ridiculous or are they just keeping things simple by having a blanket ban rather than trying to judge each case on its merits?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37832115
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Tinsel Boy
post Nov 1 2016, 08:25 PM
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The choice should be the players' to be honest. But then I also raise my eyebrows at them playing on this date at all. Such is the modern world, I suppose...
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Suedehead2
post Nov 1 2016, 08:50 PM
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There has never been a block on playing league matches on 11 November. The only reason they weren't played before on Remembrance Sunday was that they didn't play on any Sunday.
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Taylor Jago
post Nov 1 2016, 08:54 PM
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It isn't political to show respect for those who died in World War I, as far as I'm concerned.

Technically I guess the game should probably be taking place at a latter date, but if we couldn't do something every time it was an event's anniversary we probably wouldn't do much.
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Brett-Butler
post Nov 1 2016, 08:55 PM
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I've been pondering this for the last while. However, after much pondering, my only thoughts is that it's all very complicated, and I thank goodness that it's not me making the call.
Although I am slightly ambivalent about personally wearing a poppy anyway, given my place of origin.
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Silas
post Nov 1 2016, 11:01 PM
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I've never really thought of the poppy as being political but the past few years has seen a rise in the far right groups using it as a symbol.

In this case though it's an intra-country match and the Poppy has the same meaning and respect on both sides of Hadrians wall so I don't really get the refusal by FIFA. I could understand if one side wanted to wear it and not the other, or if one side was playing either Irish team.
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Mack'sXmasSack
post Nov 1 2016, 11:20 PM
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Don't see how wearing a poppy in remembrance can be political. Again it has been publicized about West Brom player James McClean not wearing a poppy on his T-shirt but that is his personal choice.
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Suedehead2
post Nov 1 2016, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE(Mack @ Nov 1 2016, 11:20 PM) *
Don't see how wearing a poppy in remembrance can be political. Again it has been publicized about West Brom player James McClean not wearing a poppy on his T-shirt but that is his personal choice.

If the English and Scottish FAs are given permission to wear poppies, do you think players will be given a choice? Something tells me they won't. That makes me lean towards thinking FIFA might actually be right.
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ML Hammer95
post Nov 2 2016, 12:01 AM
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Seem to remember a similar fuss before a home friendly with Spain a few years ago (2011?) and FIFA eventually relented. I think Prince William may have intervened.
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Frosty Xmas Baps
post Nov 2 2016, 12:04 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 2 2016, 12:34 AM) *
If the English and Scottish FAs are given permission to wear poppies, do you think players will be given a choice? Something tells me they won't. That makes me lean towards thinking FIFA might actually be right.


Exactly.

Poppies have become political and a sheep mentality assault.

They are political. Ban them fron these games.
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vidsanta
post Nov 2 2016, 08:08 AM
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What I think about this FIFA decision cannot be published on a public forum! mad.gif
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Mack'sXmasSack
post Nov 2 2016, 08:43 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 1 2016, 11:34 PM) *
If the English and Scottish FAs are given permission to wear poppies, do you think players will be given a choice? Something tells me they won't. That makes me lean towards thinking FIFA might actually be right.

No they wouldn't be given a choice at all as the English and Scottish FA wouldn't want a scenario where one player decides not to wear the poppy.

I can see why do this in the Premier League but in an international you gonna create an scenario where other countries would want to have permission to wear something in remembrance.

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Suedehead2
post Nov 2 2016, 08:47 AM
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QUOTE(Silas @ Nov 1 2016, 11:01 PM) *
I've never really thought of the poppy as being political but the past few years has seen a rise in the far right groups using it as a symbol.

In this case though it's an intra-country match and the Poppy has the same meaning and respect on both sides of Hadrians wall so I don't really get the refusal by FIFA. I could understand if one side wanted to wear it and not the other, or if one side was playing either Irish team.

Arguably, that is why it can be seen as political. If it is OK to wear them against one opponent but more difficult against another opponent, it is, by definition, political.
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Joe.
post Nov 2 2016, 09:01 AM
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I've chosen to stop wearing a Poppy the past two years, but I still believe it should be the players' choice.
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Qassändra
post Nov 2 2016, 10:31 AM
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God forbid people can remember in their own way outside of 90 minutes of football.
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Doctor Blind
post Nov 2 2016, 11:21 AM
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There was similar furore in 2011 if I remember correctly where David 'no ifs, no buts' Cameron got involved.

I don't have a particularly strong opinion except to say that we should be free to commemorate those lives lost during conflict in whatever way people want to without self appointed members of our society pressuring everyone to conform to wearing a poppy at all times, ESPECIALLY in bed between October 27th and November 11th.

FIFA just to remind everyone is currently involved in a massive corruption case over bids for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups.
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Doctor Blind
post Nov 2 2016, 11:27 AM
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Also: People with those giant fancy poppies are dicks. You know who I'm talking about.
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Suedehead2
post Nov 2 2016, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Nov 2 2016, 11:21 AM) *
There was similar furore in 2011 if I remember correctly where David 'no ifs, no buts' Cameron got involved.

I don't have a particularly strong opinion except to say that we should be free to commemorate those lives lost during conflict in whatever way people want to without self appointed members of our society pressuring everyone to conform to wearing a poppy at all times, ESPECIALLY in bed between October 27th and November 11th.

FIFA just to remind everyone is currently involved in a massive corruption case over bids for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups.

Are people now expected to wear a poppy in bed? unsure.gif
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Umi
post Nov 3 2016, 05:46 AM
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Largely anything that discourages a way of showing respect that achieves nothing but telling people you care is good in my books, so I'm not going to complain about this. If you really care then you'll pay respects with your thoughts and actions; the poppy and any other symbols of its ilk exist only to allow people the chance to both feel good about themselves and judge others for reasons they wouldn't usually be lucky enough to come across.

There's nothing to be upset about here. The players lose nothing but the chance to be sanctimonious. The ban is bizarre, frankly, as I doubt FIFA particularly care about the pressure put on players to conform with stuff like this, but outside of being difficult to understand (and arguably not really their place to step in) I don't think there's really anything wrong with it.

EDIT: Honestly I really don't get the poppy, or anything like it. It seems to me to be intensely disrespectful if anything, to the point where I would probably have more of a problem with someone wearing it than someone who doesn't.
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Soy Adrián
post Nov 3 2016, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Nov 2 2016, 08:08 AM) *
What I think about this FIFA decision cannot be published on a public forum! mad.gif

Why, are you on the run?

In all seriousness, this could (potentially) open the door to other teams trying to add all sorts of more outright political statements to shirts, so I can see why FIFA have banned it to stop the precedent.

Ex-footballer Danny Mills pointed out that there's nothing stopping the players from donating their match fees on mass to the British Legion, or to wear a temporary poppy tattoo on their hand and cover their heart with it during the national anthem. Both would be far more practical.
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