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Martyn
post Nov 2 2016, 07:04 AM
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Could someone please explain this to me. I see the term get banded around a lot but I don't quite get what it is. Especially when people can't seem to be inspired by other cultures without being accused of appropriating that culture.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something so feel free to educate me.
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Tinasha
post Nov 2 2016, 09:05 AM
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There's a line with cultural appropriation that I get a bit confused by, but I think it's like taking something that's sacred to a community and using it for fashion for example.

Some examples I can think of are Indian/native American headdresses, which have been banned at some fesitvals. Girls wearing bindis who have no connection to the culture have also been criticised.

Another big one I've noticed is the Mexican Day of the Dead (Día de Muertos). Little Mix were in trouble for cultural appropriation when their Brits performance was Dead of the Dead themed last year.
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Qassändra
post Nov 2 2016, 09:54 AM
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It can be a bit of a difficult concept to get your head around, but essentially the bit that generally has more common agreement is a bit off is when one race that has generally profited already from oppressing another race (generally white, given history and everything) takes something from the culture of that race, uses it as a quirky exotic decoration rather than showing any broader understanding of it and the culture behind it, and then profits from it. It's kind of made worse when the cultural appropriator is then held up as better or more genuine than people from that race actually doing the original, which is where the main source of complaints come from.

To illustrate, you won't find many black people who have a genuine issue with white people rapping or doing hip-hop, so long as it's done with understanding. People will get pissed off by the likes of Honey G where it's basically just done as a joke where the punchline seems to be that black slang is ridiculous. Or when the likes of Iggy Azalea and Macklemore get award nominations over A$AP Rocky and Kendrick Lamar. The anger generally comes from white people borrowing from a culture in a mediocre, uncreative way, but then getting lauded for it, while people from the original culture come out with brilliance and get totally ignored.

This is separate to the clickbait stories of 'OMG a uni banned yoga because it's cultural appropriation!!!', which pretty much nobody actually considers offensive apart from one or two people trying very very hard to get attention, but which still get blown up as somehow representative of what cultural appropriation actually means.
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post Nov 2 2016, 06:19 PM
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I've seen a lot about cultural appropriation recently the last of which was Kylie Jenner with dreads in her hair and she was called out for it but correct me if I'm wrong anyone should be able to have dreads in their hair if they wish. A hair style isn't specific to one race/ethnic minority.

I honestly feel like anyone can call anyone out for cultural appropriation which isn't right since it would just desensitise the whole thing.
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CodySleighBell-y
post Nov 2 2016, 06:37 PM
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I've seen cultural appropriation being thrown around to anything and the narrative always seems to be "white people f*ck everything up", which makes no sense. I can see it if it's sacred to the culture (like the Día de los Muertos stuff or the bindi), but there was an argument on Tumblr about henna tattoos being an example of cultural appropriation, and this one poster shot it down saying that henna has always been used as body art/decoration.
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Martyn
post Nov 2 2016, 08:16 PM
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For me, some people seem to use it as you can't ever be inspired by other cultures in how you look. Which is a bit sad really.
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liamk97
post Nov 2 2016, 08:22 PM
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This always reminds me of Katy Perry getting abused for having watermelon in the video to 'This is How We Do'.
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Jonjo
post Nov 2 2016, 08:27 PM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Nov 2 2016, 08:22 PM) *
This always reminds me of Katy Perry getting abused for having watermelon in the video to 'This is How We Do'.
YES! That was a bit ridiculous in all fairness.

Hasn't Katy been accused of it a couple of other times too?
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Dancember
post Nov 2 2016, 08:30 PM
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I remember Avril Lavigne got a lot of backlash for appropriating Japanese culture in her 'Hello Kitty' video too even though she made the video for her Japanese fans and respected the culture

(doesn't excuse the song being terrible oops)
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liamk97
post Nov 2 2016, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE(Jonjo @ Nov 2 2016, 08:27 PM) *
YES! That was a bit ridiculous in all fairness.

Hasn't Katy been accused of it a couple of other times too?

I'd imagine so - 'Dark Horse' perhaps?

I'm sure there are cases where this is a relevant issue but I'm afraid my initial reaction to the term is just to roll my eyes and wonder what 'offence' someone has tooth-picked out of something.
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Oliver
post Nov 2 2016, 08:51 PM
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I think the main one for Katy Perry was the oriental performance of "Unconditionally".
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Tinasha
post Nov 3 2016, 01:05 PM
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QUOTE(liamk97 @ Nov 2 2016, 08:31 PM) *
I'd imagine so - 'Dark Horse' perhaps?


She wore a Geisha outfit at one of her performances and that seemed to offend lots of people.
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Draper
post Nov 3 2016, 01:48 PM
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Cultural Appropriation is a divisive concept birthed from cultural Marxism which seeks to drive the segregation between race further. Culture is never owned. Culture is the practice of certain behaviours or traditions exhibited by groups. Its ever evolving. The more culture is shared amongst different races the closer we come to understanding each other and the world we all cohabit. Putting censorship and exclusivity on something as disparate as culture will only worsen societal solidarity.

In other words, it's a bullsh*t term used to keep people (mainly white) categorised by their race or background and a threat to freedom of expression. It's also used to uphold the bullsh*t oppression narrative.


This post has been edited by Draper: Nov 3 2016, 01:49 PM
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Qassändra
post Nov 3 2016, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE(Draper @ Nov 3 2016, 01:48 PM) *
Cultural Appropriation is a divisive concept birthed from cultural Marxism which seeks to drive the segregation between race further. Culture is never owned. Culture is the practice of certain behaviours or traditions exhibited by groups. Its ever evolving. The more culture is shared amongst different races the closer we come to understanding each other and the world we all cohabit. Putting censorship and exclusivity on something as disparate as culture will only worsen societal solidarity.

In other words, it's a bullsh*t term used to keep people (mainly white) categorised by their race or background and a threat to freedom of expression. It's also used to uphold the bullsh*t oppression narrative.

Dear me. White by any chance?
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Weiss Schnee
post Nov 3 2016, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE(Draper @ Nov 3 2016, 01:48 PM) *
Cultural Appropriation is a divisive concept birthed from cultural Marxism which seeks to drive the segregation between race further. Culture is never owned. Culture is the practice of certain behaviours or traditions exhibited by groups. Its ever evolving. The more culture is shared amongst different races the closer we come to understanding each other and the world we all cohabit. Putting censorship and exclusivity on something as disparate as culture will only worsen societal solidarity.

In other words, it's a bullsh*t term used to keep people (mainly white) categorised by their race or background and a threat to freedom of expression. It's also used to uphold the bullsh*t oppression narrative.


So it's okay for anyone to make a low-effort work that seems to be disrespectful towards another culture more than anything else, without understand what the meaning and history behind whatever it is you're doing? If you want to get technical, if the cultures are going to survive and keep their distinctiveness, then they need to have standards. It's about stopping what's insulting, not stifling creativity.

If white people produce some excellent, respecful, works that have been inspired by another culture then they deserve praise and they will get it. It's not okay when it's disrespectful and people cry 'freedom of expression' to excuse their casual racism.
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Draper
post Nov 3 2016, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ Nov 3 2016, 02:03 PM) *
So it's okay for anyone to make a low-effort work that seems to be disrespectful towards another culture more than anything else, without understand what the meaning and history behind whatever it is you're doing? If you want to get technical, if the cultures are going to survive and keep their distinctiveness, then they need to have standards. It's about stopping what's insulting, not stifling creativity.

If white people produce some excellent, respecful, works that have been inspired by another culture then they deserve praise and they will get it. It's not okay when it's disrespectful and people cry 'freedom of expression' to excuse their casual racism.


But how do you decipher what's insulting? Who is the judge of that, its all subjective and you cannot get authorisation from an entire group of people if wish to use something of that culture in your own way. I'll refer you to this video which informed my opinion on the issue, if you so wish to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh7c7PSVubE

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Draper
post Nov 3 2016, 02:16 PM
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Nov 3 2016, 02:01 PM) *
Dear me. White by any chance?


I am indeed. smile.gif

And here is one of the sources of where my opinion was formed. Derrick Bird aka SomeBlackGuy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q0OcWhIDF0
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Draper
post Nov 3 2016, 02:16 PM
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.

This post has been edited by Draper: Nov 3 2016, 02:19 PM
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Qassändra
post Nov 3 2016, 02:27 PM
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Oh lord, this is going to take a while. Please hold.
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Weiss Schnee
post Nov 3 2016, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE(Draper @ Nov 3 2016, 02:15 PM) *
But how do you decipher what's insulting? Who is the judge of that, its all subjective and you cannot get authorisation from an entire group of people if wish to use something of that culture in your own way. I'll refer you to this video which informed my opinion on the issue, if you so wish to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh7c7PSVubE


Okay. Things like white people wearing dreadlocks aren't a problem. As long as they know what they're doing. And things like that video's example of Elvis can be countered with 'isn't it strange how it was a white person immersed in black culture and not someone from that culture who got popular'. That's not an isolated example, it happens all the time because entertainment industry people push and have pushed white leads because they know that's what sells. They get an instant advantage because of their skin colour and so if they are making works derived from that culture and selling them to the mass market, surely you can see that's at least a little bit insulting.

The thing is, it's not really subjective, if the people from the culture find it insulting and disrespectful and blocking talented people of their own from the spotlight, then that's what it is. They're probably happy for you to use their culture if you do it respectfully.

I'll give you two examples from a culture I love myself and immerse myself in despite not being racially from that culture. As mentioned in this thread, Hello Kitty is a cheap pop song that uses in its video, lots of lowest common denominator Japanese stereotypes from an artist whose had no connection to Japan in her artistry before that song. It'd be like if a Japanese artist did a song about Mickey Mouse and then brought a video mostly showing redneck stereotypes. I don't think it was a particularly bad example of cultural appropriation as her intentions seemed to be good but misguided (if I'm being generous) and it, in the end, wasn't a huge deal in Japan, but it's completely understandable why it got that sort of attention, it's completely an outsider's stereotypical view of a culture, whatever the races involved and it really shows in a cringeworthy way.

Something else, recently I've seen happen is Porter Robinson's recent Shelter video get a little bit of a debate as to whether it deserves to be considered anime - because Porter is white. Here, I, and most others that I've seen, take the opposite stance, because Porter's well known in the past for loving and respecting Japanese culture (he is a well-known anime fan), and the video itself is not culturally insensitive (mostly the only thing you need), tells a meaningful story while also being a music video for a song, and shows an understanding of the Japanese art style, and generally is the furthest thing from a blond white girl aimlessly dancing on the streets of Japan with Asian dollgirls in the background.
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