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Brett-Butler
post Apr 16 2017, 07:19 PM
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With 99% of the votes cast, it looks as if Turkey has voted "Yes" to a referendum that will give more power to President Erdogan. From the BBC -

QUOTE


The Turkish prime minister has claimed victory in the referendum to grant President Recep Tayyip Erdogan new powers, based on unofficial results.

Binali Yildirim was speaking as the count neared completion. With about 99% of ballots counted, "Yes" was on about 51.3% and "No" on about 48.7%.

Erdogan supporters say replacing the parliamentary system with an executive presidency would modernise the country.

The two main opposition parties are challenging the results.

The Republican People's Party (CHP) demanded a recount of 60% of the votes.

A "Yes" vote could also see Mr Erdogan remain in office until 2029.

The president earlier called the head of the AK Party (AKP) he co-founded and other party leaders to congratulate them on the victory, the Anadolu news agency said.

But Deputy Prime Minister Veysi Kaynak admitted the "Yes" votes were lower than expected.

About 55 million people were eligible to vote across 167,000 polling stations, and turnout was said to have been high.

Three people were shot dead near a polling station in the south-eastern province of Diyarbakir, reportedly during a dispute over how they were voting.

How significant are the changes?

They would represent the most sweeping programme of constitutional changes since Turkey became a republic almost a century ago.

The president would be given vastly enhanced powers to appoint cabinet ministers, issue decrees, choose senior judges and dissolve parliament.

The new system would scrap the role of prime minister and concentrate power in the hands of the president, placing all state bureaucracy under his control.

What is the case for 'Yes'?
A man shows a voting ballot with the words in Turkish that read, 'Evet' or Yes and 'Hayir' or No as people vote in the referendum on expanding the powers of the Turkish president on April 16, 2017 in

There is just a simple "Yes" or "No" choice on the ballot

Mr Erdogan says the changes are needed to address Turkey's security challenges nine months after an attempted coup, and to avoid the fragile coalition governments of the past.
"This public vote is [about]a new governing system in Turkey, a choice about change and transition," he said after casting his vote in Istanbul.

The new system, he argues, will resemble those in France and the US and will bring calm in a time of turmoil marked by a Kurdish insurgency, Islamist militancy and conflict in neighbouring Syria, which has led to a huge refugee influx.

The referendum, the BBC's Mark Lowen reports, is effectively one on Mr Erdogan and the Turkey he has moulded in his image: fiercely nationalist and conservative.

And what about for 'No'?
Critics of the proposed changes fear the move would make the president's position too powerful, arguing that it would amount to one-man rule, without the checks and balances of other presidential systems.

They say his ability to retain ties to a political party - Mr Erdogan could resume leadership of the AK Party - would end any chance of impartiality.
Kemal Kilicdaroglu, leader of the CHP, told a rally in Ankara a "Yes" vote would endanger the country.

"We will put 80 million people... on a bus with no brakes," he said.
"No" supporters have complained of intimidation during the referendum campaign and that Turkey's highly regulated media has given them little coverage.


So, are you excited about President Erdogan consolidating his power over Turkey, or does it represent a new and repressive threat to the stability of Europe? (or some other thoughts - I'm not one to enforce a false dichotomy in this forum).
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Bairlas
post Apr 16 2017, 08:02 PM
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Yeah this is really not good. Term limits you'd think will be the next thing to go as Turkey continues to slide into dictatorship.
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Steve201
post Apr 17 2017, 09:10 AM
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How is it fair he can appoint judges?!
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popchartfreak
post Apr 17 2017, 02:52 PM
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perfect illustration of how democracies turn into fascist dictatorships at the drop of a hat, people willingly (assuming votes are not wholesale faked) to walk into servitude....
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Johnkm
post Apr 17 2017, 03:38 PM
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This is how Palpatine did it, and we know how THAT ENDED
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Brett-Butler
post Apr 17 2017, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE(IrnQween @ Apr 17 2017, 04:38 PM) *
This is how Palpatine did it, and we know how THAT ENDED


Thrown off the side of a spaceship into the abyss below?
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MoistSummerFruit
post Apr 17 2017, 04:31 PM
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What ia up with this trend of referendums passing and making sweeping conatitutional changes even though HALF of the population does not sign up for it??

It should be a 63% - 37% margin minimum for change to be enacted.

Forcing these 50-50 referendum razor-thin decisions through is not democracy. It is tryanny by half percents.
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Doctor Blind
post Apr 17 2017, 05:16 PM
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Funny how much changes in just 7 years.
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Brett-Butler
post Apr 17 2017, 06:03 PM
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QUOTE(RadicalPinkBRČ!! @ Apr 17 2017, 05:31 PM) *
What ia up with this trend of referendums passing and making sweeping conatitutional [sic] changes even though HALF of the population does not sign up for it??

It should be a 63% - 37% margin minimum for change to be enacted.

Forcing these 50-50 referendum razor-thin decisions through is not democracy. It is tryanny [sic] by half percents.


If you enforced a 63% bar on all constitutional referendums, almost no constitutional changes would ever get passed - to quote a more recent example, Ireland's Same-Sex Marriage Referendum would have failed under that as less than 63% voted in favour of it.

I didn't particularly like that the EU referendum went the way it did, but that's the way the majority of people voted and I respect that decision. However, in Turkey, there are real questions over whether enough people really did vote in favour, and the result is being challenged by the international community. I don't think this is the last we'll hear of this referendum.
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MoistSummerFruit
post Apr 17 2017, 06:26 PM
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A majority should not be a percent or two. That disenfranchises HALF the country.

63% and above is way more democratic.

Civil rights should not be up for referendums anyway.


This post has been edited by RadicalPinkBRČ!!: Apr 17 2017, 06:27 PM
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Soy Adrián
post Apr 17 2017, 09:43 PM
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Someone's suggestion of 60% being binding and over 50% being advisory for the legislature to examine seems like a fair compromise.

This is bad news, obviously.
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Suedehead2
post Apr 17 2017, 10:07 PM
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Whether there should be a requirement for more than a simple majority should probably depend on the question being asked. The Irish vote on same sex marriage only directly affected a minority of people whereas the Turkish referendum and our EU vote last year affect the whole population in some way. Therefore, there is a much stronger case for a higher threshold in the latter cases.
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Doctor Blind
post Apr 17 2017, 10:09 PM
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Maybe just ditch referendums, because they're awful?

I mean it's not quite as bad as the 50.2/49.8 split when Columbians rejected a landmark peace deal with Farc to end a war that has been ongoing for over half a century, but it is still PRETTY BAD.
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