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Preferred voting system?
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vidsanta
post May 11 2017, 08:11 AM
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Which do you prefer - a 'winner takes all' FPTP system which, while mostly producing decisive results, means that a lot of votes count for nothing, or

A proportional system whereby all votes count, but tends to produce coalitions, and can open doors to radical paries of the right & left?


This post has been edited by Suedehead2: May 11 2017, 08:56 AM
Reason for edit: As requested a neutral option has been added - Silas
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vidsanta
post May 11 2017, 08:13 AM
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Sorry, I meant to include a don't know/care option, but accidentally posted before I added it.
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Suedehead2
post May 11 2017, 08:50 AM
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Don't know option added.
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5 Silas Frøkner
post May 11 2017, 08:54 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 11 2017, 09:50 AM) *
Don't know option added.

You and I must have been doing this at the same time laugh.gif
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5 Silas Frøkner
post May 11 2017, 08:56 AM
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I am in favour of PR, specifically a multi-member wards elected by STV
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Suedehead2
post May 11 2017, 09:11 AM
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I have long supported STV and continue to do so.

It is true that, in the short term at least, some extremist may get elected (although some people would argue that extremists have been elected under a Labour or Tory banner with First Past The Post). However, the record of candidates getting re-elected under an extremist banner is very poor. When a number of BNP councillors were elected, almost all of them lost their seats at the next election. None of the UKIP county councillors elected four years ago won again last week. It is arguable that having these people elected exposes them to more scrutiny and, as a result, they lose support when their inadequacies and inconsistencies become more apparent.
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Christmas Cherry...
post May 11 2017, 09:24 AM
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STV
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5 Silas Frøkner
post May 11 2017, 09:26 AM
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I particularly like STV because it allows you to support minor parties without feeling like your vote is being "wasted" and over time leads towards a system of government where there are many parties, none can gain overall control without physically getting over 50% of the vote and that it typically leads to more coalitions and a more collaborative long-term approach to government

All 32 councils in Scotland returned a NOC result but this is a change on 28 from the previous election (well 4 returned independent majorities but the BBC seems to assume that they act as a single block when in reality they've just lumped a communist and a nazi in the same basket) (not really, calm down I'm picking each end of the left/right spectrum deliberately to make a point)

I think the system works well and am particularly looking forward to the nationalist/green coalition in Glasgow marking the first time the greens have officially entered power in Scotland.
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vidsanta
post May 11 2017, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE(Silas @ May 11 2017, 09:56 AM) *
I am in favour of PR, specifically a multi-member wards elected by STV


So there is something we agree on, after all. smile.gif

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 11 2017, 10:11 AM) *
I have long supported STV and continue to do so.

It is true that, in the short term at least, some extremist may get elected (although some people would argue that extremists have been elected under a Labour or Tory banner with First Past The Post). However, the record of candidates getting re-elected under an extremist banner is very poor. When a number of BNP councillors were elected, almost all of them lost their seats at the next election. None of the UKIP county councillors elected four years ago won again last week. It is arguable that having these people elected exposes them to more scrutiny and, as a result, they lose support when their inadequacies and inconsistencies become more apparent.


I don't agree with UKIP being lumped in with extremists - and I contend that their recent loss of councillors was mostly due to their voters seeing their purpose as having been achieved, and therefore further support being unnecessary.
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vidsanta
post May 11 2017, 09:49 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 11 2017, 09:50 AM) *
Don't know option added.


Thanks.
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Klampus
post May 11 2017, 09:53 AM
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UKIP are certainly more towards the extreme right side of the political spectrum, especially now that they're trying to find a new purpose and so are proposing policies such as banning the burka.
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Yuki On Ice~
post May 11 2017, 10:04 AM
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STV seems the best and it's one I hope the UK does get to eventually, hopefully under the guise of something that doesn't completely do away with the local side of politics but allows tactical voting to be a thing of the past as it really is a necessity in many cases under FPTP.

And it would lead to more coalitions. Coalitions are good, most of Europe has them regularly, it allows more opinions from different sides to be heard and a system of government that isn't elected by a minority of the people who happen to have their favoured part of the political spectrum united under one party.
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Suedehead2
post May 11 2017, 10:23 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 11 2017, 10:48 AM) *
So there is something we agree on, after all. smile.gif
I don't agree with UKIP being lumped in with extremists - and I contend that their recent loss of councillors was mostly due to their voters seeing their purpose as having been achieved, and therefore further support being unnecessary.

Of course the referendum is the main reason for UKIP's loss of seats. However, the fact that not a single one had built up enough personal support to keep their seat is pretty damning.
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vidsanta
post May 11 2017, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE(Klaus @ May 11 2017, 10:53 AM) *
UKIP are certainly more towards the extreme right side of the political spectrum, especially now that they're trying to find a new purpose and so are proposing policies such as banning the burka.


I'd be surprised if that policy makes its way into the manifesto, though.
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vidsanta
post May 12 2017, 06:31 AM
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Looks like no-one here likes FPTP. smile.gif
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ionderella
post May 12 2017, 05:48 PM
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eurovision x
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Candlelit Snow
post May 12 2017, 06:23 PM
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How can you argue against UKIP being called extremists? Their billionaire elite founder, who tried to get German citizenship the day after the vote lmaooo, used to sing Nazi songs at school. He also used Nazi propaganda in that grubby little vote. Their policies are extreme right wing.
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LexC
post May 12 2017, 06:32 PM
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I'm generally a fan of PR systems. The difference between the different types of PR systems seems to be not much more than minor technicalities but out of them all I think my preference is for AMS which they use all throughout Germany as well as the Scottish Parliament/Welsh Assembly. STV is still good though.
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vidsanta
post May 13 2017, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE(Yeasty Clutch @ May 12 2017, 07:23 PM) *
How can you argue against UKIP being called extremists? Their billionaire elite founder, who tried to get German citizenship the day after the vote lmaooo, used to sing Nazi songs at school. He also used Nazi propaganda in that grubby little vote. Their policies are extreme right wing.


17.4 million people would never have voted for Brexit if they thought UKIP were nazis!
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Christmas Cherry...
post May 13 2017, 08:47 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 13 2017, 09:42 AM) *
17.4 million people would never have voted for Brexit if they thought UKIP were nazis!


that didn't stop the Nazi party winning the popular vote in 1933 didn't it?
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