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Brexit Settlement
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vidcapper
post May 22 2017, 09:06 AM
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Leaving aside the issue of whether or not you think we should be leaving at all, how much do you think would be acceptable as a 'divorce' settlement?

[NB each 20bn is a rough equivalent of 400 for every adult in this country.]


This post has been edited by vidcapper: May 22 2017, 09:06 AM
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Silas
post May 22 2017, 09:22 AM
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Whatever it is deemed necessary by the accountants in Brussels to pay for the commitments we made and to the pensions of British EU civil servants and for the pensions of British MEPs including Farage who will continue to profit from the EU long after we leave like the skeezy snake he is
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Suedehead2
post May 22 2017, 09:40 AM
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Walking away and refusing to pay a penny would leave the UK untrusted by the rest of the world. That wouldn't be the best start for a post-EU country.
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vidcapper
post May 22 2017, 10:16 AM
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QUOTE(Silas @ May 22 2017, 10:22 AM) *
Whatever it is deemed necessary by the accountants in Brussels to pay for the commitments we made and to the pensions of British EU civil servants and for the pensions of British MEPs including Farage


Last part snipped as irrelevant. teresa.gif

I assume you'd want the EU to come up with a fully costed figure though - one that we could negotiate - rather than ones apparently just pulled out of the air, as we've seen so far...
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Silas
post May 22 2017, 10:19 AM
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I'd want to see a fully costed figure. Although I'd argue we don't really have much scope or grounds to negotiate. Any "negotiation" should primarily be around methodology then both parties should accept the end result
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vidcapper
post May 22 2017, 10:20 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 22 2017, 10:40 AM) *
Walking away and refusing to pay a penny would leave the UK untrusted by the rest of the world. That wouldn't be the best start for a post-EU country.


That would depend on the credibility of the amount the EU asked for.

After all, we've been a net contributor for a long time, so have a significant amount invested in EU infrastructure, which would need to be offset against any continuing liabilities.
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vidcapper
post May 22 2017, 10:21 AM
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QUOTE(Silas @ May 22 2017, 11:19 AM) *
I'd want to see a fully costed figure. Although I'd argue we don't really have much scope or grounds to negotiate.


See my reply to Suedehead...
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vidcapper
post May 22 2017, 10:33 AM
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BTW, I found a handy URL that lays out some of the financial facts...

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membersh...fee-55-million/
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Silas
post May 22 2017, 11:22 AM
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Past contributions don't matter. We're talking about future commitments that we've made. We're fully costed in to the current rounds of research funding (to 2020) and structural funds. We owe what we committed to. What should be negotiated is on going access to the funds we are contributing to until the end of their current funding arrangements. After this is a case for whatever deal is done post-Brexit.

Remainder is pensions and staffing costs that were also obligated to fund up to the end of the current budget period and thereafter for pensions.

I can feasibly see our bill being the remaining membership fees due until the end of the current budget as of March 2019 (should be 12-15months iirc) then pension and redundancy costs for U.K. Staff at the EU
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Harve
post May 22 2017, 11:26 AM
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How is anyone on this forum meant to answer this question, especially at this time?
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popchartfreak
post May 22 2017, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE(Silas @ May 22 2017, 10:22 AM) *
Whatever it is deemed necessary by the accountants in Brussels to pay for the commitments we made and to the pensions of British EU civil servants and for the pensions of British MEPs including Farage who will continue to profit from the EU long after we leave like the skeezy snake he is


this and this - and Ive kept the full quote as Farage is free to refuse to accept his pension and save UK taxpayers slightly less money (he's never earned it, he's never done his job, freely admitted).
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vidcapper
post May 22 2017, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE(Silas @ May 22 2017, 12:22 PM) *
Past contributions don't matter. We're talking about future commitments that we've made. We're fully costed in to the current rounds of research funding (to 2020) and structural funds. We owe what we committed to. What should be negotiated is on going access to the funds we are contributing to until the end of their current funding arrangements. After this is a case for whatever deal is done post-Brexit.

Remainder is pensions and staffing costs that were also obligated to fund up to the end of the current budget period and thereafter for pensions.

I can feasibly see our bill being the remaining membership fees due until the end of the current budget as of March 2019 (should be 12-15months iirc) then pension and redundancy costs for U.K. Staff at the EU


Past contributions do matter if they were used to purchases assets that the EU can still use after we've left.

As for pension costs, we should only be liable for those accumulated up to when we leave - after all, when you leave a company, you're no longer expected to keep contributing to their pension scheme...


QUOTE(Harve @ May 22 2017, 12:26 PM) *
How is anyone on this forum meant to answer this question, especially at this time?


It looks like they've tried, nonetheless. tongue.gif
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Harlot
post May 22 2017, 02:06 PM
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For probably the first time ever my responses would largely be identical to Silas'. There's pretty much no way around it, if you enter into any financial agreement, even as an individual person, you have certain commitments you must meet even if you decide to end the agreement early.

The simple fact of the matter is the settlement will be what it is. We shouldn't have to pay it because we shouldn't be in the utterly ridiculous position of leaving in the first place.
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vidcapper
post May 22 2017, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE(Harlot @ May 22 2017, 03:06 PM) *
For probably the first time ever my responses would largely be identical to Silas'. There's pretty much no way around it, if you enter into any financial agreement, even as an individual person, you have certain commitments you must meet even if you decide to end the agreement early.

The simple fact of the matter is the settlement will be what it is. We shouldn't have to pay it because we shouldn't be in the utterly ridiculous position of leaving in the first place.


But in the long run we'd pay even more via our net contributions...
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Harlot
post May 22 2017, 07:17 PM
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Obviously, but with the enormous benefits that would also come with it's a small price to pay.
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Hayzayy
post May 22 2017, 09:30 PM
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Pay what you have to pay whatsoever but LEAVE NOW.

Media here don't even talk about Brexit anymore, it's like you're already gone and forgotten. We have a strong new EU to build and I feel like Macron-Merkel could achieve this. So we don't need to bear the Brexit burden forever. I cried over the Brexit referendum but now I'm confident we'll be better off without you so take your money and leave for good.

(And obviously this isn't aimed directly at anyone on this forum, it's just a general thought on the matter laugh.gif )


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vidcapper
post May 23 2017, 06:10 AM
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QUOTE(Harlot @ May 22 2017, 08:17 PM) *
Obviously, but with the enormous benefits that would also come with it's a small price to pay.


All through the referendum campaign, and ever since, Remainers have spoken of the 'enormous benefits' we get from the EU, so why is it that no-one seems able to actually put a monetary figure on them?

IMO, not being able to do so was a major drawback for the Remain campaign, whereas it was easy for Leavers to show how much we pay the EU each year...


QUOTE(Hayzayy @ May 22 2017, 10:30 PM) *
Pay what you have to pay whatsoever but LEAVE NOW.

Media here don't even talk about Brexit anymore, it's like you're already gone and forgotten. We have a strong new EU to build and I feel like Macron-Merkel could achieve this. So we don't need to bear the Brexit burden forever. I cried over the Brexit referendum but now I'm confident we'll be better off without you so take your money and leave for good.

(And obviously this isn't aimed directly at anyone on this forum, it's just a general thought on the matter laugh.gif )


But how will the EU make up the billions we paid them every year? They'll have to ask for more money from the remaining 27 members, and that's unlikely to go down well!
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Hayzayy
post May 23 2017, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 23 2017, 06:10 AM) *
But how will the EU make up the billions we paid them every year? They'll have to ask for more money from the remaining 27 members, and that's unlikely to go down well!


You seem to say that as if you wish the EU explodes after the Brexit... huh.gif The EU will get over it and we'll come out stronger because we know what the EU was first built on : peace and the ambition to gather countries together. If you can't understand that, get your money, get as isolated as you want, and stop bothering us. What happens in the EU is none of your business anymore, so stop speculating about our future, thank you.


This post has been edited by Hayzayy: May 23 2017, 08:53 AM
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MoistSummerFruit
post May 23 2017, 09:26 AM
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QUOTE(Hayzayy @ May 23 2017, 09:52 AM) *
You seem to say that as if you wish the EU explodes after the Brexit... huh.gif The EU will get over it and we'll come out stronger because we know what the EU was first built on : peace and the ambition to gather countries together. If you can't understand that, get your money, get as isolated as you want, and stop bothering us. What happens in the EU is none of your business anymore, so stop speculating about our future, thank you.


heart.gif heart.gif

100% agreed

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Harlot
post May 23 2017, 09:51 AM
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Well, this is it entirely. I was going to say you can't put a price on unity, togetherness and a shared future anyway but you've said it all much better than I could.
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