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> Jason's Reasons for Leaving, Nigel Martin Smith just looking for headlines?
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Feel_The_Fever
post Jul 9 2017, 11:45 PM
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https://www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/1243849/...ining-his-life/

Hard to know how much of this is taking out of context.
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Laura130262
post Jul 10 2017, 06:08 AM
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QUOTE(Feel_The_Fever @ Jul 10 2017, 12:45 AM) *
https://www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/1243849/...ining-his-life/

Hard to know how much of this is taking out of context.



Bleurgh. Hideous man. Never understood why the others don't just tell him to sling his hook. How many years do you have to be "grateful for Your break"? He's a bully who knows he can get away with it.
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pippa
post Jul 10 2017, 01:37 PM
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Nigel always appeared to be a bully tactic person, this became more evident after they split and again when they reformed. Additionally, i would believe he would have made the Robbie and Gary fall out worse than what it was. Nigel and Robbie appeared to have clashed the most and i would believe Nigel "TRIED" to make Robbie pay the price.

Regarding Jason, he did always appear the one least comfortable with fame. There is a part of me that would think some of the story is true in relation to when they were together the first time. If i recall properly Jason felt much more comfortable when they reformed and had really started to enjoy his role for the Beautiful World and Circus era. I have always felt that Jason was never comfortable having Robbie back on board and i would believe this played a part in his decision to leave. That said, i could be completely wrong but its what i have always thought. While Take That still look a little odd performing as three, Jason was the only one that could leave without it resulting in them splitting up. In my opinion Gary, Mark and Howard were more pronominal and pivitable to the band.
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nirvanamusic
post Jul 10 2017, 03:13 PM
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Nigel has always had issues with Jason from the beginning and was constantly reminding him he was a just a painter and decorator throughout. Telling people on tv shows that Jason mic was off and humiliating him.

He stopped the van and threw Jason out only to swing back round and pick him up again a few minutes later. I believe this was early on in their careers.

Making public it was Jason who had pushed for Robbie to leave even though it was actually both Jason and Gary who had voiced these wishes.
When they reformed in 2005 he wanted Jason out completely and replaced with Shayne Ward (!) and when Jay left in 2014 he publically slated him as an attention seeker however Robbie came out in Jay defence and supported him.
I'm sure there are other incidents but these are the ones that spring to mind from biographies and such.

Robbie and Jason got the roughest ride in TT early years for sure and may have turned on one another as a result or had less of a bond (usually this happens when two in a group have similar negative experiences to the others) however clearly they support one another now. Nigel recognised however that Robbie was a star and unique and talented as was Jason however his was in a less obvious way. However Rob has stated when he realised he had more power than Nigel that was when Nigel couldn't control him any longer.

Jason actually aside from Gary was the most accomplished musically playing guitar on Babe and Back For Good and has a much nicer vocal tone than all of them bar Gary and Rob in my opinion.

I believe the story is true but I believe it was Nigel who created these insecurities for Jason over years likewise Rob and without him in the picture later on Jay shined. Gary, Mark and Howard have always had glowing reviews from Nigel throughout though I can't see any of those three standing up to him even when seeing something wrong. Looking back maybe Rob and Jay actually had opinions and challenging ideas and Nigel only wanted dialogue with Gary?
Howard said in a documentary 'Looking back Robbie was young and no one was really there for him' I get the impression the same was for Jason though due to being older than Rob there is less guilt from other members and plus Jason didn't actually leave the group either.

I remember reading a band member saying Nigel would absolutely slate and mock one particular member to the other four when he was out of sight and earshot though can't remember if it was Rob or Jay who was trashed regularly but was definitely one of them two.

I think as a band they did all get on and for most part enjoyed their initial career although it seems there were growing issues between Gary, Rob and Jason for how long during Take That we'll never really know.

Quite possibly this is from Gary's book I believe and other press statements.


This post has been edited by nirvanamusic: Jul 10 2017, 03:25 PM
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Laura130262
post Jul 10 2017, 07:04 PM
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RW and Jason were very close in the Progress era. That was the time Robbie was blogging nearly every single day on his website all through the tour and he said he and Jason as the only two members at that time who were childless would stay up into the small hours talking about life. He loved him for his wisdom and I think learnt a lot from Jay at that time.

He said the only "problem" they had back in the day was that Jason as the oldest treated Robbie as the youngest as a little brother and he didn't want to be seen that way. He resented it but later when they re-formed obviously that was no longer an issue and they were on equal, adult terms.

He also said NMS used a divide and conquer technique on the five of them back in the day.

Anyway, I firmly believe they would have been stars regardless of whether NMS was about or not. Cream always rises and star quality shines. They all would have got there somehow. Maybe on a different route but they would have got there.

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pippa
post Jul 10 2017, 07:28 PM
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Nirvanamusic, i completely about about a point you reminded me of in your post "Nigel has always had issues with Jason from the beginning and was constantly reminding him he was a just a painter and decorator throughout. Telling people on tv shows that Jason mic was off and humiliating him"

This showed what a nasty man Nigel truly was. Some of his nastiness did rub off on Robbie i feel as Robbie was so aggressive in his comments when himself and Gary fell out.

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Feel_The_Fever
post Jul 11 2017, 01:54 AM
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I would say Nigel was a brutally nasty tough manager who would not like anyone standing up to him at all. Dropping him was the best thing they did.
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pippa
post Jul 11 2017, 01:14 PM
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From looking back and refreshing my memory on some previous stories he really looks like he was an awful person to work with who took advantage of his power. That said, we cant deny he did help them to the road of super stardom and they did achieve so much when working with him. However, the talent was in the group, and i think many people would say Take That phase 2 was the much better Take That. Strong material, even bigger success and all without the assistance of a man who appeared to make peoples lives miserable to serve his own ego.
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nirvanamusic
post Jul 12 2017, 02:40 PM
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I totally agree as the reality is the industry is cut throat and so they did need to be focussed and disciplined else would have been another pop group casualty. They were taken to the highest heights in music and pop culture and Worldwide also which even fewer acts achieve.

I think though the bullying tactics weren't needed and wouldn't be tolerated in this day and age. One Direction were given lots of say in the music, image and even when they have time off. It just wasn't ran freely like that back then in the 90's for a pop band. That was the model for the times.

I do agree they would have risen to the top eventually however I do feel Nigel helped them majorly especially after the flop first singles and turned them into stars before they became self sufficient. He recognised Gary needed to fall on his sword temporarily and go with a shrewd cover version or two with both going top 10 along with Million Love Songs.

At that time and their ages they needed a manager like Nigel however when they were older his presence wasn't needed. Like I said it's a cut throat industry...
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pippa
post Jul 12 2017, 03:32 PM
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With their age at the time a strict manager was needed. I would believe Robbie was hard to manage as he always appeared to mischievous and probably did not take things as serious as the others. That said, Nigel appeared to have gone over and above with control mechanisms.

Louis Walsh would be a strict no nonsense manager and he did not have to go to the same extremes with Westlife and they always managed to have a strong relationship and achieved huge success. With Boyzone it soured badly and likely worse than Nigel and Take That.

Am i correct when i say did Nigel try to sue Take That when they reformed and didn't take him on board?
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nirvanamusic
post Jul 12 2017, 06:08 PM
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Louis Walsh and Simon Cowell were never as ruthless as Nigel and Tom Watkins (East 17) who was known to use the same tactics as Nigel.
I feel however Nigel wasn't as bad as Tom though who could be a bruiser and that reflected in part in East 17 attitude which was encouraged.

Simon Cowell wanted a boy band with edge (Five) though when he got one he couldn't handle it (at least according to the band members anyway) and disappeared from them to Westlife a group he could handle and would follow his orders blindly and even against their better judgement. He helped Louis Walsh make them a success.
Walsh did use some tactics though early on telling Westlife it was going to their heads and they could be replaced at any time. He also made comments about appearance and weight also to some Westlife members.
Five had too many opinions and raw attitude getting into brawls and even telling famous songwriter Max Martin when offered first 'bye bye bye' that it was s**t. Martin was so taken aback and upset/offended Cowell bought him a car however he exclusively continued only working with American boy bands Backstreet Boys and NSYNC after that meeting. The song went worldwide with nsync instead.

I don't really know about Boyzone but Blue didn't appear to have any dramas either with their manager.

Backstreet Boys and NSYNC manager (same person) ripped both of them off and pitted them directly against each other! At least Nigel didn't do that. Nigel saw it coming though he said "if we stick together in five years we'll all hate each other but be rich". That's pretty much what happened.


This post has been edited by nirvanamusic: Jul 12 2017, 06:39 PM
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pippa
post Jul 12 2017, 06:53 PM
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Very interesting post. I did not have any knowledge of most of this information. Outside Louis and Simon it appears Take That got off lightly with their manager.

I would think managing a boyband is not an easy job, especially when initial success kicks in, egos start to grow and appears to be when things get tricky. That asid, Louis and Simon always say Girl Bands are far harder to manage as in most they dont like each other.
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