BuzzJack
Entertainment Discussion

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register | Help )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Separating the Artist from the Art., Is it ok?
Track this topic - Email this topic - Print this topic - Download this topic - Subscribe to this forum
Jonjo
post Nov 11 2017, 10:20 PM
Post #1
Together we are more.
********
Group: Moderator
Posts: 66,349
Member No.: 5,042
Joined: 13-December 07
 


Hollywood actors are being exposed with each passing day! The big rollout currently started with Harvey Weinstein then Kevin Spacey and now the likes of Louis CK, Steven Segal & even George Takei have been accused of harrassment of women and/or men. The list only seems to be scratching the surface though.

However this isn't the topic I wanted.

I'm asking, are you able to seperate the artists from their art? Is it still OK to watch/listen to their works and appreciate their performances for what they are, despite "perhaps" feeling the complete opposite way for them as a person?

I ask as someone who is a huuuuge fan of Kevin Spacey's work (he's the highlight of my favourite ever film 'Se7en' and I find all his performances really captivating!) and I am really disheartened by these allegations (that's literally all they are right now, no matter how true they may be) and honestly I don't know how to feel.

I feel like it's easier to seperate for actors than it is for anyone else like musicians, directors or television personalities etc.. just coz their performances are them playing different characters but then again you don't want to support that actor anymore by rewarding them...

So is seperating the artist from the art ok? Do you guys find it easy to do so or does it affect the art for you?

P.s. please be careful with what you say, this is the internet, no matter how obvious a situation is, unless it's been proven otherwise a lot of these are "allegations" for now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Klaus
post Nov 11 2017, 10:31 PM
Post #2
wtf are perfect places
******
Group: Entertainment Mod
Posts: 12,482
Member No.: 17,160
Joined: 3-June 12
   No Gallery Pics
 


Normally, no. The main exception probably being Michael Jackson. And the main counter to that is Chris Brown, who I’ll never be able to appreciate (although Beautiful People is a tune oops)

However, I started watching House of Cards a couple of weeks before all these allegations and I’ve just carried on watching. It is perhaps more uncomfortable than before obviously, especially given the character but I’m still being able to enjoy it. I’m also still wanting to watch Baby Driver too.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
danVember
post Nov 11 2017, 10:34 PM
Post #3
Danvīci
*******
Group: Chart Mod
Posts: 43,752
Member No.: 11,746
Joined: 30-August 10
   No Gallery Pics
 


If it was an actor I admired who happened to be exposed in this way I'd probably still appreciate their past work somewhat but I'd also feel betrayed having thought otherwise. I don't know really as I don't recall ever having seen a film by any of the names currently being thrown around (well idk what films Weinstein was behind so maybe I have)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Buttered Muffin
post Nov 11 2017, 11:50 PM
Post #4
Life is so much queefier than we allow ourselves to think x
******
Group: Members
Posts: 18,838
Member No.: 18,639
Joined: 18-April 13
   No Gallery Pics
 


For me, it's a no.

I can barely stand Chris Brown, even his tunes, for what he did.

Like Froot, the ONLY exception to this is MJ.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Iz~
post Nov 12 2017, 04:59 AM
Post #5
masala me
*******
Group: Veteran
Posts: 26,254
Member No.: 12,929
Joined: 3-February 11
 


I started and finished watching House Of Cards earlier this year, got up to Season 3, and then with Frank becoming president I didn't feel as interested in it anymore but what it did leave on me was Kevin Spacey's performance, he was excellent. Almost disturbingly so. So yes, he is talented, and I don't feel like I would balk at watching him in other things now even with all the many allegations that have now come out against him. What helps is that I only really know him in a somewhat villainous role.

If it were someone who I admired playing a heroic role, like it would be if the allegations against Takei turned out to be true, then it would feel a lot worse, but depending on the severity of the crime, it will probably still be salvageable just to watch their works, I'm good at compartmentalising and so I don't like it when people strip works of awards or perceived merit just because one person involved is a scumbag outside of creating that work. The one notable exception I've found to that is Lostprophets, there's no way I could ever sit through a song sung by him again, although I only sort of knew a couple of songs before that horrendous situation went down so it's not like I'm giving up childhood treasures.

Chris Brown, I just dislike his music anyway, what he did just makes them worse, it's an intensifier of an emotion more than anything else, a negative one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tyler
post Nov 12 2017, 05:18 AM
Post #6
No wonder there's panic in this industry, I mean please...
*******
Group: AF Leader
Posts: 43,407
Member No.: 67
Joined: 7-March 06
 


I feel with music it’s a lot harder to seperate the two. With film it’s a bit easier, as it’s a collective effort of many performers. Film you are portraying a character that is not yourself, Music is quite the opposite in a majority’s sense.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
T Boy
post Nov 12 2017, 09:52 AM
Post #7
Radical Pink Troll
******
Group: Artist Mod
Posts: 14,422
Member No.: 177
Joined: 11-March 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


This is an interesting thread, some good points raised. I’ve been thinking of this a lot recently, being a big fan of House Of Cards and I think people are right with regards to it being harder to separate musicians than actors. If/when House Of Cards returns, I’ll be a key to carry on watching because it’s a group effort, though his performance is excellent, Kevin Spacey is not the sole reason I watch. Of course watching now will be different and possibly disturbing, having heard the allegations.

But were you to ask me if I could enjoy a Lost Prophets album? Absolutely not.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ʟɪɴᴅs.
post Nov 12 2017, 10:23 AM
Post #8
Heda
******
Group: Moderator
Posts: 8,338
Member No.: 21,176
Joined: 29-August 14
   No Gallery Pics
 


Hmmm see I wouldn't call myself a fan of Kevin Spacey, I just know of him as an actor, I haven't seen a lot of his work but it does put me off watching things he's in, same with the others that now have allegations against them. I know they are just allegations right now but I think it's more the fact of seeing potentially awful people be successful, which is undeserved. Sure they may have a talent but it's the whole abuse of power thing and taking advantage of their place in Hollywood that makes it undeserved for me. It's like Chris Brown, he doesn't deserve to be looked up to in any sense after what he did, his career really should have been over then.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Emily Haines
post Nov 12 2017, 02:13 PM
Post #9
Gunshot Glitter™
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 2,465
Member No.: 10,790
Joined: 15-March 10
   No Gallery Pics
 


Most people know Brand New are (were?) my favourite band. The allegations that have come out in the past couple of days have me both heartbroken and conflicted. At the moment I don’t feel I can separate the art from the artist, despite there being three other members of the band. I don’t know if I can bear to listen to them again. I know Jesse has received help, long before the allegations surfaced, but at the end of the day the most important thing is whether the victims feel they can move forward and accept his apology and remorse.

On the flip side, you have artists like Bowie, Elvis, Jimmy Page who have done the same, and actually worse, and still command respect and countless followers. How do we get this to stop?

I don’t know how I’m going to feel in the future but something has to change and people cannot continue enjoying acclaim when they have ruined other people’s lives.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Brébino
post Nov 12 2017, 04:32 PM
Post #10
Mr Jade Lauren Williams <333
********
Group: Moderator
Posts: 78,574
Member No.: 8,300
Joined: 14-February 09
 


I usually am able to separate the art from the artist, I think there's nothing wrong with enjoying the work of terrible people as long as you don't say they are redeemed as people because they make good music or films or whatever. The media is very selective about which people have committed 'unacceptable' crimes, like Chris Brown for example still (deservedly) gets a ton of criticism but John Lennon did similar if not arguably worse and he's one of the most universally respected musicians of all time.

There are some exceptions though, I will never be able to listen to a Lostprophets song again because Ian Watkins' voice will now always just remind me of what he did which makes me feel sick. But like, I wouldn't judge anyone else who is still able to listen to Lostprophets and enjoy it. x
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
danVember
post Nov 12 2017, 04:49 PM
Post #11
Danvīci
*******
Group: Chart Mod
Posts: 43,752
Member No.: 11,746
Joined: 30-August 10
   No Gallery Pics
 


Another famous example is Phil Spector who is in prison for murder but the history books are still kind to him for what he did for music.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PeteFromLeeds
post Nov 12 2017, 05:24 PM
Post #12
Just another burden on the welfare state
******
Group: Members
Posts: 8,004
Member No.: 23,247
Joined: 6-May 16
   No Gallery Pics
 


Lostprophets is a really hard one for me bc 'A Town Called Hypocrisy' was honestly one of my favourite songs (and I'm even humming it now as I type this) so I really don't know, although I'd never play it within earshot of anyone else because I'd fear they'd judge me for it. The other factor was that I was only 13 when all of this came to light, so I wasn't fully aware of how horrific his actions had been (I mean, I knew he was in jail and the other bandmates had condemned him for it but that was about it).

If I was listening to them for the first time after knowing what he did there's no chance I'd enjoy it at all though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ninjabait
post Nov 12 2017, 06:35 PM
Post #13
BuzzJack Regular
***
Group: Members
Posts: 347
Member No.: 22,088
Joined: 6-July 15
   No Gallery Pics
 


To add another layer to this: What if the artist is dead (recently or otherwise)? If you don't find it's appropriate or possible to enjoy an artist's work while they're alive, what about after they're dead and unable to reap any benefits from it?

Elvis frequently had sex with minors (in fact, dude was pretty much a straight-up paedophile--he PREFERRED girls who were around 14 years old) but is considered one of the most widely influential rock musicians of all time. John Lennon was a domestic abuser, but is probably one of the greatest songwriters ever. Going back even further, Richard Wagner was a raging Anti-Semite and racist whose operas were appropriated by the growing national socialist movement in Germany after his death. His operas are even banned in Israel. On the other hand, his operas are some of the most important and influential music ever written and defined modern film and classical music (and they're still widely performed and studied today). Moving away from music, H.P. Lovecraft was HUGE racist and there's definitely some racist undertones in his works. Which sometimes are just straight up tones; there's a cat in one of his books named "N****r Man" (not even kidding). But he's probably the greatest horror writer to ever live, and nearly EVERY single person in the horror after him can site his works as a major influence or a second-hand influence.

Is it okay to enjoy the works of these artists? Personally, I would say "yes". Art is immortal. It transcends its creators and takes on new meaning every time a person experiences it. What the viewer or listener projects onto it is more important than the intent with which the art is made, or the backgrounds and beliefs that informed the creation of it. Every person (yes, including the author) who looks at a painting, or listens to a song, or reads a poem gives it new meaning. Beethoven and Monet are dead, the Ninth Symphony and Water Lilies are not. These works and the meaning that one derives from them still illicit emotion, and influence and inspire people today. These works are kept alive for centuries by the new meanings people give them every single day. As the saying goes, "The death of the author is the birth of the reader".

Now, for artists that are still alive and can benefit from their own work. I think that the answer is both "yes" and "no". The works that they made in the past can still be enjoyed, for the same reasons as if the creators were dead. The art, at this point, is separate from its creator(s). I can still watch 21 or The Negotiator because of, essentially, the suspension of disbelief. When I watch those movies, I'm not watching Kevin Spacey lead a card counting ring or a hostage negotiation, but I'm watching the characters he's portraying do those things. The second the movie starts, Kevin Spacey might as well not exist. He's just a vessel for the character. What becomes more important at that point is the story and what meaning I, as an audience, can derive from it.

But, while the older art can stand on its own, that doesn't mean that we have to give more opportunities to creators who have done bad things. We, as an audience, can ask that creators don't use certain tools or work with certain people. There's also, when possible and necessary, legal punishments that can be dolled out. That way, the person who did the bad thing can still be punished but the art (and often the other people involved with it) doesn't bare any punishment for something that its creator did.

And, one final note: I think that if you, as an audience member, cannot separate the wrongdoing artist from his work, then you should not consume that art. If the very sight or sound of them makes you think of nothing but what they did and evokes negative emotions, then it's not healthy to consume that art. The meaning you derive from it has changed, and it's perfectly fine to avoid it now.

That's just my ramblings on the matter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post


Reply to this topicStart new topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:


 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd November 2017 - 07:40 AM