BuzzJack
Entertainment Discussion

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register | Help )

Latest Site News
11 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> EU/Brexit Discussion Thread II
Track this topic - Email this topic - Print this topic - Download this topic - Subscribe to this forum
Brett-Butler
post Nov 19 2017, 05:47 PM
Post #1
Howdy, disco citizens.
******
Group: Moderator
Posts: 9,153
Member No.: 10,455
Joined: 16-January 10
   No Gallery Pics
 


The last EU/Brexit thread was getting a bit long, so have opened up a new page for discussion of the EU, Brexit, and your thoughts on matters relating to those things.

Once again, can I remind everyone to avoid personal, ad hominum attacks on fellow Buzzjack members, although robust disagreement about any opinions expressed is welcome (as long as they add to the conversation).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vidsanta
post Nov 20 2017, 06:48 AM
Post #2
Paul Hyett
*******
Group: Members
Posts: 20,286
Member No.: 364
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Nov 19 2017, 05:47 PM) *
The last EU/Brexit thread was getting a bit long, so have opened up a new page for discussion of the EU, Brexit, and your thoughts on matters relating to those things.


I thought about starting another one myself, but figured an 'unauthorized' one wouldn't survive.

QUOTE
Once again, can I remind everyone to avoid personal, ad hominum attacks on fellow Buzzjack members, although robust disagreement about any opinions expressed is welcome (as long as they add to the conversation).


OK
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vidsanta
post Nov 20 2017, 07:17 AM
Post #3
Paul Hyett
*******
Group: Members
Posts: 20,286
Member No.: 364
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Nov 19 2017, 03:03 PM) *
Here's an interesting graphic (posted by John Burn-Murdoch of the FT) which incorporates changes in employment over the last decade and the labour market vulnerability to increasing levels of automation in the jobs market over the next decade.


Unless he is neutral on Brexit, then his motives for producing a graph like this are suspect.


QUOTE(Buttered Muffin @ Nov 19 2017, 05:00 PM) *
Exactly!!

So she has NO mandate!! Promises were made about a soft Brexit. And only 51% voted for SOME FORM of it!


in case you have forgotten, the question was : Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Nothing about hard/soft Brexit there!

QUOTE
a second more pertinent qustion would be: between the deal,if any lol, no deal and hard Brexit, remain, another deal. 60%


You realize that isn't going to happen, right?

Others here disagree with Brexit, but it's only you who appear willing to undertake any manipulation of the electoral system to block it. What is it about Brexit you find *so* objectionable that you would be be willing to take such measures to reverse the result?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Suedehead2
post Nov 20 2017, 09:14 AM
Post #4
BuzzJack Legend
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 23,622
Member No.: 3,272
Joined: 13-April 07
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(vidcapper @ Nov 20 2017, 07:17 AM) *
in case you have forgotten, the question was : Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Nothing about hard/soft Brexit there!

So you agree that the referendum result did not provide a mandate for leaving the single market. After all, if just 4% of Love voters wanted to stay in the single market (as many Leave campaigners said would happen), that means a majority voted to stay in the single market.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vidsanta
post Nov 20 2017, 10:26 AM
Post #5
Paul Hyett
*******
Group: Members
Posts: 20,286
Member No.: 364
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 20 2017, 09:14 AM) *
So you agree that the referendum result did not provide a mandate for leaving the single market. After all, if just 4% of Love voters


Hippies, you mean? teresa.gif

QUOTE
wanted to stay in the single market (as many Leave campaigners said would happen), that means a majority voted to stay in the single market.


But the vote was *not* about leaving the Single Market, but the *EU* as a whole - that was made abundantly clear during the campaign, so claims that people who voted Leave didn't realise that meant exiting the SM too, hold little credibility.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Suedehead2
post Nov 20 2017, 11:54 AM
Post #6
BuzzJack Legend
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 23,622
Member No.: 3,272
Joined: 13-April 07
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(vidcapper @ Nov 20 2017, 10:26 AM) *
Hippies, you mean? teresa.gif
But the vote was *not* about leaving the Single Market, but the *EU* as a whole - that was made abundantly clear during the campaign, so claims that people who voted Leave didn't realise that meant exiting the SM too, hold little credibility.

Bloomin' auto-correct drama.gif

You chose to ignore the fact that many Leave campaigners specifically stated that they thought we should reman IN the single market. Some even went as fas as saying that leaving the single market would be madness.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Popchartfreak
post Nov 20 2017, 12:49 PM
Post #7
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Moderator
Posts: 10,967
Member No.: 17,376
Joined: 18-July 12
   No Gallery Pics
 


Yes, funny how the lying pack of Brexit hounds have suddenly started to rewrite voting history and remove of all the things they claimed they wanted and the country would get and turned it into:

We won, so we get to say to dictate what you all voted for, and anyone who doesn't agree or reminds us of what we claimed for the campaign is a traitor.

Which is what every dictator in history has always claimed. It's general practice Rule Number One in the "How To Be Dictator" book. Just read statements by Ivana Trump about bedside reading tastes and rape-accusations post-hairdo..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vidsanta
post Nov 20 2017, 02:43 PM
Post #8
Paul Hyett
*******
Group: Members
Posts: 20,286
Member No.: 364
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 20 2017, 11:54 AM) *
Bloomin' auto-correct drama.gif

You chose to ignore the fact that many Leave campaigners specifically stated that they thought we should remain IN the single market. Some even went as fas as saying that leaving the single market would be madness.


Perhaps so, but it obviously wasn't enough to deter them from voting Leave anyway.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vidsanta
post Nov 20 2017, 02:49 PM
Post #9
Paul Hyett
*******
Group: Members
Posts: 20,286
Member No.: 364
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Nov 20 2017, 12:49 PM) *
Yes, funny how the lying pack of Brexit hounds have suddenly started to rewrite voting history and remove of all the things they claimed they wanted and the country would get and turned it into:

We won, so we get to say to dictate what you all voted for, and anyone who doesn't agree or reminds us of what we claimed for the campaign is a traitor.

Which is what every dictator in history has always claimed. It's general practice Rule Number One in the "How To Be Dictator" book. Just read statements by Ivana Trump about bedside reading tastes and rape-accusations post-hairdo..


drama.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Suedehead2
post Nov 20 2017, 04:01 PM
Post #10
BuzzJack Legend
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 23,622
Member No.: 3,272
Joined: 13-April 07
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(vidcapper @ Nov 20 2017, 02:43 PM) *
Perhaps so, but it obviously wasn't enough to deter them from voting Leave anyway.

Eh? They were told that they could vote Leave and that we would still be in the single market. Therefore, if that is what they wanted, they voted Leave.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vidsanta
post Nov 20 2017, 04:14 PM
Post #11
Paul Hyett
*******
Group: Members
Posts: 20,286
Member No.: 364
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 20 2017, 04:01 PM) *
Eh? They were told that they could vote Leave and that we would still be in the single market. Therefore, if that is what they wanted, they voted Leave.


I challenge you to provide a cite of that, since I don't recall that being in the gov'ts booklet.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Candlelit Snow
post Nov 20 2017, 04:18 PM
Post #12
Life is so much queefier than we allow ourselves to think x
******
Group: Members
Posts: 19,213
Member No.: 18,639
Joined: 18-April 13
   No Gallery Pics
 


There are a BUNCH of high profile interviews where they say EXACTLY THAT

Thi all invalidates the wafer thin 'win'
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
5 Silas Frøkner
post Nov 20 2017, 06:14 PM
Post #13
Surfing in paradise
********
Group: Entertainment Mod
Posts: 61,777
Member No.: 3,474
Joined: 24-May 07
 


QUOTE(vidcapper @ Nov 20 2017, 04:14 PM) *
I challenge you to provide a cite of that, since I don't recall that being in the gov'ts booklet.

Look at any message from the vote leave campaign and it’s super visible mouth pieces and you’ll find a multitude of examples of staying in the single market. Leaving the SM didn’t appear until after the vote when the EU was clear that single market = free movement. That’s when the revisionism started
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Popchartfreak
post Nov 20 2017, 08:15 PM
Post #14
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Moderator
Posts: 10,967
Member No.: 17,376
Joined: 18-July 12
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(vidcapper @ Nov 20 2017, 04:14 PM) *
I challenge you to provide a cite of that, since I don't recall that being in the gov'ts booklet.


never one to resist a challenge that takes hardly an effort to prove...

google is a marvellous tool. Much like these marvellous tools being talked about all lying during the referendum..

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open...4b09025ba310fce
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Soy Adrián
post Nov 20 2017, 09:13 PM
Post #15
I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
******
Group: Moderator
Posts: 12,763
Member No.: 10,596
Joined: 6-February 10
 


In all honesty, there were conflicting statements from the Leave side during the campaign on staying within the single market - just as there were for virtually every issue.

They calculated, correctly as it turned out, that the only way that Leave would win a majority of voters was if it was able to be all things for all people. There was never a single coalition of voters large enough to win the referendum on any specific policy platform. The contrast with the Scottish referendum is totally evident - as depressing as it was at times, to the Yes campaign's credit they put forward a specific programme, fought and lost on it.

The whole purpose of the EU referendum being advisory was that in the event of one side or the other winning with no such clear programme, it would be possible for the government to carry out the referendum decision but would have scope within that to forge the best possible path for the country based on some objective information.

Basically it's horseshit whenever the Leave side it claims it has a mandate for any specific action like leaving the single market.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Suedehead2
post Nov 20 2017, 11:05 PM
Post #16
BuzzJack Legend
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 23,622
Member No.: 3,272
Joined: 13-April 07
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Nov 20 2017, 08:15 PM) *
never one to resist a challenge that takes hardly an effort to prove...

google is a marvellous tool. Much like these marvellous tools being talked about all lying during the referendum..

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open...4b09025ba310fce

There was probably a story in the Daily Mail saying that Google causes cancer, so vidcapper probably doesn't use it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vidsanta
post Nov 21 2017, 06:35 AM
Post #17
Paul Hyett
*******
Group: Members
Posts: 20,286
Member No.: 364
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 20 2017, 11:05 PM) *
There was probably a story in the Daily Mail saying that Google causes cancer, so vidcapper probably doesn't use it.


Very droll.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Suedehead2
post Nov 21 2017, 10:37 AM
Post #18
BuzzJack Legend
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 23,622
Member No.: 3,272
Joined: 13-April 07
   No Gallery Pics
 


This Facebook post sums things up rather well...

QUOTE
You live in a house with 10 other people. For years you squabble and bicker. You make and break allegiances, you take over control of different parts of the house and steal each other’s things.

You 'Tommy' are good at it – and eventually you've also commandeered the garden, and the shed for your own purposes. You also steal the next-door neighbours garden, their greenhouse and an allotment.

One of your house mates Hans is stuck in an upstairs room – he has no access to the gardens and gets frustrated. He eventually breaks out from upstairs and makes a move on everyone else’s stuff. A huge house fight breaks out which everyone gets dragged into. Ivan who lives in the attic takes the brunt of it – but no one thanks him because everyone’s scared of spiders. Everyone has lost though – so while Ivan lost two legs and an arm, Tommy lost a finger, Hans lost a foot and a hand.

Once everything calms down – everyone gets together at a house meeting and decides it has to stop. The bickering, the stealing stuff. Everyone agrees that they’ll instead of being selfish will work together.

It works – and for 70 years nothing gets broken, nothing gets stolen. Of course, people still won’t go in the attic because of the spiders, and everyone still grumbles that Hans talks too loud, and François has monopolised the fridge, but it works. They all just have to agree to be a little less selfish and get along. They begin to plan big things together – they’re building a new garden shed and a bird bath, they have plans to put a gate in the fence but are not sure how high to make it – they still argue a little, but they don’t fight.

Tommy one day though decides that he’s fed up with the fridge situation, with the communal living, with sharing everything. He has a pang for his glory days of the past when he controlled everything past the clothes lines and beyond. He calls a house meeting and tells all the house mates they can shove it. He reminds them that he lost a finger for them (Ivan scoffs at this) – Tommy says he’s going to his room and he doesn’t want anyone else to come in.

There’s a few confused looks – Patrick reminds Tommy that they have an adjoining bathroom – so locking that door might be a problem. François reminds Tommy that locking the door of his room will also prevent Tommy getting out – but Tommy is fixed on it.

Everyone tells Tommy that’s a sad choice but it’s up to him – they remind him that he did make a commitment to help finish the bird bath just last week, so ask that he honour his commitments.

Tommy refuses and starts going through the fridge looking for anything of his he can take back to his room.

As he slams his door Tommy bemoans how little ‘respect’ he’s had from everyone.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vidsanta
post Nov 21 2017, 11:07 AM
Post #19
Paul Hyett
*******
Group: Members
Posts: 20,286
Member No.: 364
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 21 2017, 10:37 AM) *
This Facebook post sums things up rather well...


I thought there was a point coming in what you quoted, but it seemed to vanish halfway through.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vidsanta
post Nov 21 2017, 04:40 PM
Post #20
Paul Hyett
*******
Group: Members
Posts: 20,286
Member No.: 364
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


Low £, not all bad...

http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturing-o...early-30-years/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post


11 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

2 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
1 Members: Suedehead2


 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 14th December 2017 - 03:17 PM