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> people who hate political correctness, bigots hiding behind a convenient phrase or justified movement?
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Popchartfreak
post Dec 9 2017, 07:50 PM
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Liаm
post Dec 10 2017, 04:42 PM
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Bigots hiding behind a convenient phrase.

They can purport the left make up genders, sexualities or whatever as they please, but there's being politically correct and forced not to make jokes and there's just being a decent tolerant person because it's none of your business what someone decides they feel they are and present as, for example. You can't be a knob and then harp on with this stupid buzzword (well, buzz phrase) and think that makes it ok lmao
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Shia LeMuffQueef
post Dec 10 2017, 04:44 PM
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I find these people to be like judgmental Victoriana wanting to interpose on other people's lives
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vidcapper
post Dec 10 2017, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE(ChRiMbO LeG PiPe @ Dec 10 2017, 04:44 PM) *
I find these people to be like judgmental Victoriana wanting to interpose on other people's lives


I find that a choice irony, given how repressed & censorious the Victorians were.
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Iz
post Dec 10 2017, 05:38 PM
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Well that's a bit of a PC view of the Victorian era because no one wants to acknowledge the raunchy underbelly...

PC complaints tend to manifest fairly similarly. Something with a long cultural history is slightly changed to be more sensitive to one group, and these people get up in arms about the small change despite it making literally no real difference to their lives. If they had ever experienced oppression, they would realise why changing something that seems to mock them even casually does a world of good, and if they had ever experienced love and friendship in their lives, they would realise that by arguing this point, it makes them a horrendous dick. Of course, free speech, the other thing these people like to shout about, still applies, they are still absolutely free to say the words now deemed un-PC and everyone else is absolutely free to judge them for it.


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Shia LeMuffQueef
post Dec 10 2017, 05:45 PM
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Yes, but that's not the point, the Victorians were outwardly VEEERY judgmental and scandalised - just like the anti-PC brigade who want to attack everyone for living different lives.
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vidcapper
post Dec 11 2017, 06:53 AM
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QUOTE(Yuki On Ice~ @ Dec 10 2017, 05:38 PM) *
Well that's a bit of a PC view of the Victorian era because no one wants to acknowledge the raunchy underbelly...


There was a lot of 'do as I say, not as I do' by those in power - not all that different from nowadays in fact. rolleyes.gif

Despite sex outside marriage being taboo in that era, it still happened a lot - the number of illegitimate children I've spotted during my genealogical research proves that. smile.gif

QUOTE
PC complaints tend to manifest fairly similarly. Something with a long cultural history is slightly changed to be more sensitive to one group, and these people get up in arms about the small change despite it making literally no real difference to their lives. If they had ever experienced oppression, they would realise why changing something that seems to mock them even casually does a world of good, and if they had ever experienced love and friendship in their lives, they would realise that by arguing this point, it makes them a horrendous dick.
There seems quite a bit of generalization in the above paragraph, which I thought was anathema to the politically correct? unsure.gif

QUOTE
Of course, free speech, the other thing these people like to shout about, still applies, they are still absolutely free to say the words now deemed un-PC and everyone else is absolutely free to judge them for it.


ISTM people were less judgemental before PC took over.

QUOTE(ChRiMbO LeG PiPe @ Dec 10 2017, 05:45 PM) *
Yes, but that's not the point, the Victorians were outwardly VEEERY judgmental and scandalised - just like the anti-PC brigade who want to attack everyone for living different lives.


It's perfectly natural to resist change - the older generation resist PC because it's a challenge to what they grew up with - and it seems likely to me that several decades down the line, the PC generation will in turn resist changes their own children embrace.


This post has been edited by vidsanta: Dec 11 2017, 06:53 AM
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Iz
post Dec 11 2017, 07:39 AM
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 11 2017, 06:53 AM) *
There seems quite a bit of generalization in the above paragraph, which I thought was anathema to the politically correct? unsure.gif


Well if you must complain about generalisation in a completely general for now topic, then by all means show me a situation where that general sentence doesn't apply.

QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 11 2017, 06:53 AM) *
ISTM people were less judgemental before PC took over.


Now who's generalising? And I completely disagree based on my own anecdotal experience and a quick google search for articles for and against that statement, plus I refute your 'PC took over' claim as well (to whit: this extensive article does it for me)
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Suedehead2
post Dec 11 2017, 09:30 AM
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Let's take two examples. Somebody decided to make a film version of a fairly obscure novel. The central character in the novel was Jewish and there were a lot of stereotypes which might have been considered anti-semitic. For the film, the central character was of Italian descent with a distinct lack of negative stereotypes. Was that unnecessary political correctness?

Or how about a series of stories published in German. The stories contained rape and violence and were generally pretty brutal stuff. The English translations were highly sanitised. Was that over-sensitive?
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vidcapper
post Dec 11 2017, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE(Yuki On Ice~ @ Dec 11 2017, 07:39 AM) *
Now who's generalising? And I completely disagree based on my own anecdotal experience and a quick google search for articles for and against that statement, plus I refute your 'PC took over' claim as well (to whit: this extensive article does it for me)


I couldn't get all the way through that article, thought I did like the phrase 'Dictatorship of Virtue'
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Iz
post Dec 11 2017, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 11 2017, 09:30 AM) *
Let's take two examples. Somebody decided to make a film version of a fairly obscure novel. The central character in the novel was Jewish and there were a lot of stereotypes which might have been considered anti-semitic. For the film, the central character was of Italian descent with a distinct lack of negative stereotypes. Was that unnecessary political correctness?

Or how about a series of stories published in German. The stories contained rape and violence and were generally pretty brutal stuff. The English translations were highly sanitised. Was that over-sensitive?


The first one: removing the negative stereotypes is good but changing the ethnicity is problematic as it suggests there's something wrong with the main character being Jewish (basically the same as the whole whitewashing issue). That's too far the other way and would probably result in more controversy that keeping the character Jewish.

Second one: fine assuming the market it's aimed for is wider, lots of translations change the intent enough that they're almost new works themselves. Bonus in that the novel elitists can say 'you can't understand it unless it's in the original German' which I'm sure makes them happy.

My only complaints, whitewashing aside, are to do with artistic intent, which changes according to the time a work or adaptation is made in and is secondary to offending groups. Worth saying this is probably the form of 'political correctness' I'd be most against. And this isn't that important and I wouldn't dream of using it to bemoan the downfall of society.
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Suedehead2
post Dec 13 2017, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 11 2017, 09:30 AM) *
Let's take two examples. Somebody decided to make a film version of a fairly obscure novel. The central character in the novel was Jewish and there were a lot of stereotypes which might have been considered anti-semitic. For the film, the central character was of Italian descent with a distinct lack of negative stereotypes. Was that unnecessary political correctness?

Or how about a series of stories published in German. The stories contained rape and violence and were generally pretty brutal stuff. The English translations were highly sanitised. Was that over-sensitive?

I was being a bit sneaky here. So unlike me, I know biggrin.gif

The book in the first case was called Israel Rank, that being the name of the lead character. In the film he became Louis D'Ascoyne Mazzini and the film was called Kind Hearts And Coronets. It became one of the best known Ealing Comedies. In the film the lead character (played by Dennis Price) was portrayed fairly positively - as long as you ignore the bit about him being a mass murderer. That act of political correctness happened in 1949.

The original book in the second case was by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm. The original versions of the traditional stories were truly gruesome. The Sleeping Beauty was raped while she was unconscious, Red Riding Hood was eaten by the wolf and one of Cinderella's ugly sisters cut off part of her foot to try and get it into the glass slipper. Read John Connolly's brilliant The Book Of Lost Things for some of the original versions. The sanitised English versions were first published in the early nineteenth century.

In other words, this is nothing new.
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