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> Social media "fame" (aka Logan Paul is an idiot), ft. Youtube having no morals
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Liаm
post Jan 2 2018, 03:52 PM
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If you've been on social media at all today you'll have seen the stuff about Logan Paul doing the rounds... I felt the opportunity for a bit of a rant from me really and a few interesting avenues for discussion, as I've been thinking about this whole cult of social media "celebrity".

Social media """star""" Logan Paul has been all over social media so far in 2018 for an absolutely disgusting display, basically he supposedly went to a Japanese forest known for being a suicide spot, supposedly for the "haunted" aspect, filmed a reaction video to him and his friends finding the corpse of someone who had hung themselves, and made jokes about it, proceeding to post the video. He has since apologised but the forest is so vast wth designated paths f you do walk through it, so from everything I've read and seen about it, you'd have to go looking for a body which clearly he was. The apology to me seems very orchestrated, calculated, obviously pushed by management, with a bi of his own "I have viewers I make loads of money envy me" sprinkled in ofc. He's been blocking people on Twitter who are DMing and @ing him instead of bothering to give anyone the time of day, it's clear he's just an absolute waste of space :/ With an audience of impressionable young children and teens he really should think of how these things come across, and it's not even a gray area, how is there even a judgement to made or a decision to weigh up here on behaving in this way and sharing it with a young, or any, audience? TO me it feels like he was low enough to think that a dead body hanging somewhere could be used as shock value entertainment so he can give it a clickbait title and make some money, simple as.

Youtubers are understandably up in arms as Youtube's morals seem to be out the window, as they didn't take any action on the video and it even reached the trending page, the only reason it was deleted is because he did it himself following the backlash. From the Youtubers I do watch, mainly Pokemon ones and other gaming channels, i've seen a fair bit of them being subject to demonetisation for reasons that are never clear or for stupid reasons, which for them trying to work hard making a job out of what they love is obviously frustrating. When you see the stuff Youtube doesn't act on, it just gets to be a bit of a joke, I don't think the rules are stringent enough, I expect a lot of it is computerised so I get why the errors occur but if we're gonna get all Marxist my cynical side makes me think it gets let slide for bigger Youtubers who'll make them more money drama.gif On a similar note there was (I think a thread was made at the time) the whole safe search debacle, where a wide amount of LGBT videos were exclude from the "restricted mode" which was supposed to shield kids from sexual/inappropriate content. Kids who just want to watch people like them get blocked out, but this kind of stuff like Logan Paul is allowed to happen...

I think it also crucially opens up a discussion about the kind of people who are becoming incredibly famous with an unfathomably large reach for doing... well not a lot. I get that editing etc. takes a long time, so it's not nothing, but you know what I mean laugh.gif No talent at all, not really that funny (but of course that's subjective and i'm not the target audience) yet they're getting viewers by the bucketload, having this influence and yet there are so many using it in an awful or manipulative way. Obviously this has nothing on Logan, but for example Zoella's advent calendar was slated last month for costing £50 due to her name being on it when it was in fact worth something like £13 laugh.gif I get that this is their job, and if anyone could do "nothing" and get that much money, they'd milk it too, and hey're just following their dreams, good for them, but it's quite concerning that we have this platform that can catapault anyone, including those who take someone's suicide as being an opportune moment for "entertainment", to stardom for any small thing, and it's a medium that has a huge amount of young people who are impressionable invested in it. I think the worst of it stems from Vine, these sorts of people who were vaguely amusing for 7 second bursts but now are desperate to fill say 15 minutes with whatever crazy embellished stories, clickbait or disgusting stunts they can, because they have a hell of a lot more than 7 seconds to fill now they're on Youtube. I know they're not all awful, a lot are just not to my taste, but when stuff like this happens it just always makes me think about (mainly video focused) social media and its "gift" of almost insant fame for certain people. It's just a shame that people can be famous for being, well, idiots when there are people with talent struggling to make it in whatever avenue. But I do always say when people slag off say Kim Kardashian, she's a business she knows what she's doing, good on her, I don't hate her, and I guess these guys are a business too, and at least none of them are using suicide like Logan Paul...

It's both a wonder, a blessing and a curse that social media can catapault almost anything into fame, adoration, notoriety or worldwide backlash. It's lovely when you see a wholesome dog meme with 100k retweets, or an amsuing story like the guy who got chicken nuggets from Wendy's but equally stuff like Logan Paul's idiocy gets given the time of day..... I'm not ranting against social media at all as I tweet LOADS etc. and wouldn't go without it, it's just a shame when these horrible things happen and remind you of exactly how much power it has to spread absolutely anything.


That was a bit self-indulgent so what are your thoughts/expeiences on Logan Paul's saga and this social media fame craze in general?
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Shia LeMuffQueef
post Jan 2 2018, 03:59 PM
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I found Logan Paul to be a bit of a douche. A great wrestler and athlete, but very immature and a bit aggressive. This is pretty :/ and shoes more of the toxic alpha male masculinity culture we have going on, which results in people idolising Putin and voting for Trump, or being sexist.
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Brett-Butler
post Jan 2 2018, 04:07 PM
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As a result of this video, Logan Paul has hit headlines across the world, allowing someone who'd originally only been known in YouTube circles to gain a massive, worldwide, mainstream audience, so in terms of his aim, he definitely succeeded, and he'll make lots of £££ off the back of his name becoming known (I'd certainly never heard of him before now). I think it goes without saying that the video itself was incredibly crass and definitely should not have been made, but as a result of its publication and subsequent controversy, it's signal boosted him to an extent that most YouTubers cannot dream of. Had it been ignored, then we would not have heard about it, but as a result of the outrage it has generated, he is going to benefit in the long term (to clarify - I am not saying the outrage wasn't justified, just that it will have the opposite effect to what the outragees think will happen. It won't end his YouTube career - it will only make him an even bigger name).

I'm aware that there has been a lot of controversy over YouTube demonitising videos for a number of reasons. I can see that for some of your examples, it could be justified on copyright grounds (using video clips, characters etc in the video without paying the owners), but I'm aware there have been claims from certain groups, largely of a conservative/libertarian bent, that YouTube has been directly targeting and demonitising their videos for political reasons to cut off their money supply. I don't know enough about it to know whether this is true or just some of them playing the rhetoric of victimhood (and I should say that there are some of them that shouldn't be monitized in the first place - the alt-right/white supremacists for example should not be monitized on the platform).
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Liаm
post Jan 2 2018, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jan 2 2018, 04:07 PM) *
I'm aware that there has been a lot of controversy over YouTube demonitising videos for a number of reasons. I can see that for some of your examples, it could be justified on copyright grounds (using video clips, characters etc in the video without paying the owners), but I'm aware there have been claims from certain groups, largely of a conservative/libertarian bent, that YouTube has been directly targeting and demonitising their videos for political reasons to cut off their money supply. I don't know enough about it to know whether this is true or just some of them playing the rhetoric of victimhood (and I should say that there are some of them that shouldn't be monitized in the first place - the alt-right/white supremacists for example should not be monitized on the platform).

It definitely isn't that, and tonnes of people do videos of the games, if it was that they'd all be demonetised, it's just the odd one that happens to get demonetised without so much as a a copyright notice laugh.gif I have seen the poltical ones too, from people who don't seem to be doing anything wrong. I think they just need to be a bit more transparent and consistent, I know they'll have the odd thing slip but there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to a lot of it at all.


Although that is capitalism for you, a big company losing out on a few quid is more important than LGBT rep or people not being tactless idiots :')
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lotita.
post Jan 2 2018, 04:13 PM
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to piggy back off brett's point, i'm just waiting for the "apology"/explanation video to surface which will of course be monetised.....

what an absolutely disgusting act
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Dircadirca
post Jan 2 2018, 04:31 PM
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I have a weird hobby of occasionally looking at YouTube's trending page, possibly to keep myself in the loop of the progressions of things like this. YouTube's prime audience is kids & teenagers which I am not, so it always feels like I'm travelling to some sort of alien area where 'standards' of mine are taken for granted. It's actually kind of amusing how formulaic a hit YouTube video can be. You'll see all manner of all-cap titles, exaggerated reaction mugshots, superlatives, lists, clickbait teasers, huge letters on the thumbnail etc. It's always an absolute eyesore. The Paul brothers absolutely occupy this space to the point that their names are clickbait in themselves, and there are already people generating millions of clicks out of reaction to this controversy.

In a way, it makes me think of an echo chamber situation. Only those who are actually interested in the 'content' will engage with it, and the only reason that I (and many others) are, is because we caught wind of it and saw it for how absurd the situation is. It's like if you lurk a community that harbours a radically different viewpoint to you. What gets discussed could be absolutely shocking to you, but completely normal to the regular participants. If I understand correctly, Logan's video was full of likes (and not a noteworthy amount of dislikes) before he deleted it, and I'm sure a good percentage of the comments were oblivious to the offensive nature of it.

The obvious notion to point out about this is that viral internet fame is dictated by a combination of skill (either standing out through talent or having the social engineering talent to surpass that barrier) and luck. Nowhere in that is media standards training, so we get ordinary people gaining an audience of millions and often no one to keep them in check. And once you get into the art of clickbait, logical sense is easily overlooked as soon as 'ooh this will get views' gets in the head. I often wonder if I'd be more sympathetic if I were younger, or if I had YouTube as a kid, because there's a good chance that I'd have been consuming all this same content that makes my stomach churn now. I guess there's an aspect of these popular YouTubers feeling like a friend on the inside, someone who can cheer a kid up because it feels like they get them. The closest thing I had was when there were teenagers (or about that) who were on TV to introduce cartoons and the like. From that aspect I can at least empathise with the audience, but the whole thing shows the downside of how the content produced on YouTube has nowhere near as much quality control as that of TV.

It's a shame too because stuff like this affects every content creator on YouTube, as the 'adpocalypse' last year showed. It's why all the people on my Twitter feed RT-ing criticism of Logan are YouTubers themselves. There are a lot of very talented and interesting people who make content on YouTube and plenty of them who make a living out of this, but people like Logan Paul are the face of YouTube and when they pull a bad move, it reflects badly on everyone, and it can hurt people's income/livelihood, just because someone who shares the same platform as them is a doofus.
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Cucumberella
post Jan 2 2018, 04:57 PM
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The apology video is up as of now.

I don't understand why YouTubers like him who spend all of their time pushing this ideal of toxic masculinity. bro culture etc. get so much traction and attention - I would've thought that we lived in a time where people could see through something so thinly veiled and attention seeking as nothing more than crap but apparently not. It seems to be that the majority of major YouTubers today getting traction are those who were ironically born middle class/affluent and had great advantage over everyone else just merely capitalising on this and getting the attention they crave because they can.
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Avicii
post Jan 2 2018, 05:20 PM
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YouTube has been in the shitter for a long time now. The Paul brothers get away with anything because of that sweet YouTube ad money and they got the prime spot in YouTube Rewind 2017 yet anyone with a small fanbase has to rely on fan donations and/or sponsored content.

Anyone with a political opinion that leans somewhat to the right - DEMONITISED
Anyone discussing mental health/suicide - DEMONITISED
Anyone discussing war, terrorism, natural disasters or any other 'controversial' subject - DEMONITISED
Anyone caught swearing - DEMONITISED
Political satire - DEMONITISED
LGBTQ videos - DEMONITISED

The Paul brothers being all-round shitty people and terrible role models for kids - $$$
Clickbait videos - $$$
Elsa and Spiderman getting it on - $$$
Slime - $$$
Fidget spinners - $$$
Vlogs - $$$
Watching people watch people play video games - $$$
Make up tutorials - $$$
Actual creative content - not much of it left to be seen

Isn't YouTube wonderful? smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif
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Chez Wombat
post Jan 2 2018, 05:30 PM
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What I find the most disgusting is in his apology he posted on Twitter, he stated he wanted to 'raise awareness of suicide' FUCK RIGHT OFF manson.gif What really happened is either he's too young and stupid to realise what he did or more likely, he/his team knew exactly what he was doing and it's worked exactly to his favour and got him a worldwide platform as Brett has said. This 'apology' was clearly a PR decision. So sad that this is one of the most popular Youtubers sad.gif

I watched a web series the other day called 'Pls Like' which I'd recommend to you all if you want a very funny show that also takes a savage but worthy satirical dig at Youtube stars (only a fifteen minutes an episode and there's only six, so you can get through the whole thing quite quickly!)

I think there are some successful, intelligent and very entertaining Youtube channels and stars that I do believe do it out of genuine love for what they are doing (I would recommend I Hate Everything and Nostagia Critic particularly x), but it's unfortunate that a lot of the most publicised ones like the Paul brothers, and what new teenagers then follow when creating their own videos, are just the worst type of self indulgent, attention seeking, dull antics which can all be boiled down to 'look what silly things I can do now that I have a camera', I mean honestly (as the web series shows), a lot of the time these are people that look the part and are then spotted by some seedy PR man and then there is always someone behind the cameras directing and calculating everything they do to get the most money out of them. It's all quite sad.
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ionderella
post Jan 2 2018, 05:53 PM
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meh, i'm not impressed with the apology. sounding pretty standard and emotionless

i've never really followed him before, nor was I ever interested in what he has to say. only heard of him through another vlogger's collaboration.

something that makes me wonder is him (and other people) being invoived in this for a long period of time and not seeing the problem. I mean you have to think before posting anything if you are #51 in the most followed Youtubers in the world. Editing takes time as well and it gives you extra moments to think it all over. It's not streamed live.

in a race to crack that top x (50 in this case) and get more people to watch they just lose all sensibility and common sense. i'm beyond disgusted. any normal person would immediately switch off the camera or get the footage to the police if they continue filming. or AT LEAST keep it for themselves. the mere notion to go to the forest in order to film stuff and put it on youtube is f***ing stupid beyond belief too even if you find nothing.

thankfully he's losing subscribers at the moment but backlashes don't always work the right way these days. besides he's white and male so some people will be angry for a few more hours and forget all about it
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Liаm
post Jan 2 2018, 06:05 PM
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I remember one of the Youtubers I watch put a clickbaity title to a totally normal video (I think it was something like fidget spinners with exclamation marks etc.) and got SO many more views than usual, from a wider geographical base etc., it's ridiculous laugh.gif I expect the big guns know exactly how to name and tag videos to maximise all that.

I know they could be told to "get a real job" or whatever but it's sad seeing people I like, enjoy and admire, who just want to do what they love as their job, being held in a lower. If that's just playing games and making witty comments or reviewing them, fine. It's a shame that people like that, I Hate Everything is another good example, are eclipsed by idiotic people espousing toxic masculinity and the worst values in our society. I know people look down on Youtubers in general, but ones who actually make some form of effort to make funny gameplay videos, or review things, looking at obscure stuff whether it's game consoles, other electronics, movies, TV shows, are at least making an effort to cover something interesting and unique. I suppose it's a bit like music trends, the formulaic easy option dominates and makes the money, interesting stuff just won't please the masses :/
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Dircadirca
post Jan 2 2018, 06:19 PM
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QUOTE(Liаm @ Jan 3 2018, 02:05 AM) *
I suppose it's a bit like music trends, the formulaic easy option dominates and makes the money, interesting stuff just won't please the masses :/

The algorithm makes a big impact on this as well. Much in the same way that Google promotes what is already the biggest, so the smaller ones don't get a chance unless they're lucky. I upload heaps of speedrun videos to my channel, mostly world records, but the views I get pale in comparison to those of someone who tapped the well first, even if their runs are far slower than mine. My biggest video of this nature is actually currently getting the most views per day than ever before (excluding the day it was uploaded), assumably because the views have gotten high enough that it turns up higher in the search results.

(I'm not bitter I swear, just using it as an example as I have the analytics of my own videos at hand tongue.gif )

There are also other aspects where content creators get their fans to help with this. If you've ever seen a video end with 'like, comment & subscribe' then you know all about it. No doubt if I did it, even on my small scale, it would improve my numbers.


This post has been edited by Dircadirca: Jan 2 2018, 06:22 PM
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ionderella
post Jan 2 2018, 06:34 PM
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well of course youtube will favour videos with an already huge amount of views. more views = more moneyz. and let's be honest, favouring more intelligent obscure videos will never work. people just won't watch them the same way they watch all the loganpauls even if they have opportunity.

at least we still have the personal suggestions column. it's given me all kinds of more obscure videos based on my recent search history without having had to specifically search for them which is good


This post has been edited by ionderella: Jan 2 2018, 06:35 PM
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Liаm
post Jan 2 2018, 06:43 PM
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Yeah for personal reasons the suggestions thing is great! It's obviously a tough one, we can't say to favour "better" content because who decides exactly what that "better" content is? Everyone is interested in different things, it's just a shame that what's preferred by more people is.... this shit.

QUOTE(ionderella @ Jan 2 2018, 05:53 PM) *
something that makes me wonder is him (and other people) being invoived in this for a long period of time and not seeing the problem. I mean you have to think before posting anything if you are #51 in the most followed Youtubers in the world. Editing takes time as well and it gives you extra moments to think it all over. It's not streamed live.

Exactly that's what's getting me a lot, in actually setting out to make a certain video that's 15 or however many minutes long, you have to film what you're doing then edit it, so you experience it multiple times. I get that in a live stream or even during filming, something can slip out while you're in the midst of everything. It's the fact that he has gone through, edited it, and still decided it was ok to post. That makes the apology seem so insincere as much as the wording laugh.gif
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Shia LeMuffQueef
post Jan 2 2018, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE(Dircadirca @ Jan 2 2018, 06:19 PM) *
The algorithm makes a big impact on this as well. Much in the same way that Google promotes what is already the biggest, so the smaller ones don't get a chance unless they're lucky. I upload heaps of speedrun videos to my channel, mostly world records, but the views I get pale in comparison to those of someone who tapped the well first, even if their runs are far slower than mine. My biggest video of this nature is actually currently getting the most views per day than ever before (excluding the day it was uploaded), assumably because the views have gotten high enough that it turns up higher in the search results.

(I'm not bitter I swear, just using it as an example as I have the analytics of my own videos at hand tongue.gif )

There are also other aspects where content creators get their fans to help with this. If you've ever seen a video end with 'like, comment & subscribe' then you know all about it. No doubt if I did it, even on my small scale, it would improve my numbers.


What is your channel and what games do you do?
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Dircadirca
post Jan 2 2018, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE(Candlelit Snow @ Jan 3 2018, 03:04 AM) *
What is your channel and what games do you do?

I'm here! Just do the game Furi really because it's the only thing I'm good at speedrunning, but might branch out to other stuff one day laugh.gif
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Klaus
post Jan 2 2018, 07:14 PM
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Like 99% of youtubers, Iíd never heard of him but his apology is the most pretentious thing Iíve seen (all year!!!1). It basically says Iíve always been perfect so donít criticise me because I filmed a guy who died committing suicide. I have loads of fans who make me lots of money so donít take that away from me.
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The Snake
post Jan 2 2018, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE(Dircadirca @ Jan 2 2018, 07:12 PM) *
I'm here! Just do the game Furi really because it's the only thing I'm good at speedrunning, but might branch out to other stuff one day laugh.gif


Will check it out.

You should consider teaming up with SpinningAdam who also wants to have a youtube channel and make a youtube channel with double the impact! biggrin.gif
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Doctor Blind
post Jan 2 2018, 07:39 PM
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Unfortunately this is the end result of a society that encourages narcissistic attention-seeking (look at me, look at how great my life is - let me 'take a selfie') and further to this builds platforms that celebrate and reward this with money. Some people are complete idiots who either have no comprehension of how insensitive they are being, or do not care, because ultimately it is ALL about those views/subscribers/ and the money that comes from it, and no amount of moral code being broken is off limits for the payoff you will get.

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Avicii
post Jan 2 2018, 10:44 PM
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The double standard YouTube has is ridiculous.

YouTuber TJ Kirk made a response video to the Logan Paul video and it got taken down because of... it showing offensive content (clips from the Logan video) that YouTube did not take down when Logan uploaded it (Logan took the video down himself).

YouTube are doing their absolute best to censor any opinion that doesn't match their own agenda. Any channel that goes against YouTube's golden boys gets constantly demonetised and videos taken down.

He's reuploaded it, censored. Wonder if it'll get taken down again. Really makes me angry.
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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th January 2018 - 09:17 AM