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> Drag and transgender, tl;dr - Rupaul puts ha foot in it x
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Liаm
post Mar 6 2018, 12:30 AM
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A lot of you will probably be aware of comments RuPaul made this week about trans women competing in Drag Race - he said he "probably" wouldn't allow it. Today he took it a bit further and said "you can still be an athlete if you take steroids but not in the olympics".... Naturally he's come under fire from fans and alumni of Drag Race, some of whom have transitioned since the show. It's inspired a hashtag mydragisvalid too with trans women etc. celebrating their drag and sharing it, against the oppressive comments. It's been great to see the alumni and fans come together on this issue in such a (mostly, we'll ignore Derrick Barry as always x) positive way wub.gif Any other fans of the show etc. what do you think??
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Liаm
post Mar 6 2018, 12:34 AM
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For me it's really marring Ru as a person and his point ruins the whole point of drag - it's supposed to be celebrating the fact we can express ourselves in any way we want. It's supposed to be an art form to inspire, educate and entertainment, and Ru himself preaches stuff like "we're all born naked and the rest is drag" and "if you can't love yourself how the hell you gon' love somebody else", yet he seems to be stuck in the 80s. I think there is a bit discord with older queens at times, or those of a certain "style", are frustrated that things are different (for example some younger queens relying on their body), and that may include the fact trans women are increasingly part of the community. But I think it's only a good thing as it expands drag further and helps it evolve, as it enters the mainstream I think it's important to change perceptions and show that drag queens are just the same old cliches that people pass them off as. There are comic queens, style icons, burlesque/theater types, all sorts, and that includes trans women who embody everything possible that the community is supposed to support and rally for. It makes the show and what Ru is supposed to be a figurehead for seem hypocritical, to preach such tolerance and self-love and make such comments.


I suppose the one thing I can see is that I guess is you have estrogen and become more physically feminine, and that might be an advantage to looking the part but it doesn't affect your abilities to sew and make garments, have the creative ideas, be funny and adaptive to challenges etc. so to use that analogy was stupid at best. It's not a queen could rely on "I've got a good silouhette" for the whole thing and "cheat" their way using estrogen laugh.gif
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The Snake
post Mar 6 2018, 12:56 AM
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Maybe I am getting confused but I thought a drag artist by definition dresses up as the opposite sex, and trans-women are of course female, so unless they dressed up as male they wouldn't technically be a drag artist.
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Liаm
post Mar 6 2018, 01:01 AM
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Some are gender non-conforming, some contestants have transitioned since the show and are now women, but still "do" drag - it doesn't invalidate it. That's the old definition and it's changed is what I'd say. And that's the problem ,some people won't move past that.
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Lindsey 🙃
post Mar 6 2018, 01:22 AM
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You can be a trans woman and be gender non conforming or non binary, the way someone expresses their gender doesn't need to match up with how they look on the outside. People are becoming increasingly more aware of the fact that gender is something we've created as a society and built into our culture, like with what we believe to be "masculine" or "feminine" etc but that's not a universal understanding, there are societies and cultures who don't have the same sort of alignments we do. Gender =/= sex. Drag isn't something I know masses about, I've watched a handful of Drag Race episodes so I'm hardly the best person to speak on that aspect but from what I can tell it's all about destroying the binary and portraying people in a light society ordinarily wouldn't show them in. It's fun and entertaining and makes people feel good about themselves, what does it matter if they identify as a male or female out of drag or what they've got going on under their clothes? Its utter bullshit for Ru to imply that trans women have an advantage if they've undergone HRT or surgery, like I'm sure there's been queens on there that have had cosmetic surgery and still been allowed to compete, isn't that an 'advantage' too? There are men who have quite feminine figures naturally, do they have an advantage? Like Liam said, it's not all about the silhouette or the look with drag so what does it matter?! I hate when people who should be unconditional allys and have a platform for a particular community also use it to alienate a whole group of people which is basically what's happened here. Trans women who do drag are going to feel as though they aren't as authentic or they need to limit the way they express themselves and that's so sad. There's enough discrimination and categorisation of minorities without the actual minorities doing the same against each other.
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Cody💧Slayberry
post Mar 6 2018, 01:27 AM
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I've always considered drag to be an art form and everyone should be able to do it regardless of gender, as it's become more around the lines of overt extravagance rather than "hey imma dress up as the opposite sex", and yeah a lot of this comes from Ru being of a different generation and not understanding that things have drastically changed since then. If it makes you feel good, then power to you. That's the mantra we should take with this.

What I'm hoping is that this type of positive discourse continues and we don't get people attacking other people and thought policing like what has happened with every other scandal in the last 15 months.
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The Snake
post Mar 6 2018, 01:39 AM
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Yes its interesting to hear on this thread that the main focus of drag seems to have changed for a lot of people from portraying the opposite sex to portraying extravagance, to reflect the ideal of a less gender binary society. Drag is also about entertainment as Lindsey said and Ru seems to be taking it a bit too seriously and following the old rules of drag too much, so yeah there shouldn't be an issue with trans women drag artists.

This post has been edited by The Hissmobile: Mar 6 2018, 01:42 AM
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Liаm
post Mar 6 2018, 02:50 AM
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He's pretty much apologized and realises the hurt he's caused now I make this laugh.gif But still a stupid thing to say that has pissed me off. And ofc it's thrown the fans into a tizz that a lot of them won't come out of now because ofc making more drama out of drama is stan Twitter's life force.
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Cody💧Slayberry
post Mar 6 2018, 03:41 AM
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if that's twitter i'm scared about tumblr. lack of forgiveness is their life force
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Tawdry Hepburn
post Mar 6 2018, 11:27 AM
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It's stupid. By excluding trans people and women, all they're doing is feeding into a system of oppression they claim to oppose.

This post has been edited by Tawdry Hepburn: Mar 6 2018, 01:03 PM
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HarryEzra
post Mar 6 2018, 12:59 PM
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For me, it doesn't matter what gender they are they can still do drag if that's their passion and art form. I know some have stopped drag once they transitioned have stopped doing drag (For example Carmen Carrera and I think maybe Sonique too?) but other transgenders, non-binary, non-gender confirming queens have continued to do drag what does it matter if they want to be a man or women out of drag. It's a bit backward thinking to an art form which has grown over the last 10 or so years.

Eek at RuPaul liking it to being a disadvantage too.
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Liаm
post Mar 6 2018, 03:09 PM
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For one Violet and Jinkx won and identify as non-binary, which is no different really as a woman doing it. It's different from the archaic "man dressed as a woman being camp" definition of drag, because of course non binary people have masculine and feminine traits, they may present as at least slightly female, so if that's fine I don't see the problem with trans women. I get that they have hormone therapy as I said but the judges would just take that into account, they're not that stupid. Contestants normally get criticised, especially by Michelle, for relying on body so that would be no different.
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Joe.
post Mar 6 2018, 03:21 PM
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As long as you "get" drag and do it properly, it really doesn't matter what genitals you have.
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