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> Russia vs UK (Spies), 23 diplomats expelled
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Iz
post Mar 14 2018, 05:10 PM
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So we haven't really, as far as I can see, had a thread about the Russian spy poisoning, if it's buried somewhere deep amid circular Brexit arguments I apologise. But that was a thing that happened last week and it was pretty horrendous how that just showed some of the human cost of Russian spies everywhere.

In response to that May has just expelled 23 Russian diplomats from the UK and that is big. I've seen comments saying it's one of the biggest diplomatic incidents since the Cold War. Huge deterioration of relations, dignitaries are boycotting the World Cup, this seems absolutely huge as far as international relations go.
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Chez Wombat
post Mar 14 2018, 06:21 PM
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Russia's response to this has been rather worrying with how...unaffected they seem. If they actually were behind this (which seems awfully likely atm, makes them even more suspicious with the death of Nikolai Glushkov, true they may be unconnected but...yeah), then I'm really scared of what the future holds in our relations with them.
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Cody💧Slayberry
post Mar 14 2018, 07:17 PM
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we’re really heading into the next world war aren’t we
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Popchartfreak
post Mar 14 2018, 07:27 PM
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The Russians have been murdering their enemies in both the UK and US for some time, with minimal investigation from the police, and government shoulder shrugging - possibly something to do with Russian energy supplies, Russians owning half of London with dirty money as investments, and the rest stuck in British Offshore Island accounts. The world has seen the UK as compromised in it's co-operation with Russian money and turning the other cheek.

Well, Putin made a mistake, he made it too public to ignore (in order to drum up election propaganda back home about how the world hates him and accuses him of murder) so the Tories have been forced to act at long last.

About time May showed some backbone. There are lots of internet trolls attacking anyone who dare suggests that it's true. If it's not true, then Putin has ever opportunity to explain how Russian nerve gas was not in the possession of Russians. To explain why he changed the Russian law to make it legal to murder "traitors" anywhere in the world. To explain why he promised on camera to kill all traitors.

He hasn't explained anything at all. Just lied Trumpton-style. What a coincidence that his hated (British citizen former British-spy) enemy was murdered by Russian nerve agents just after his daughter had arrived from Russia presumably giving away his location to some tag-along watching? Alternatively, what a total frame-up from persons unknown who managed to get locked substances, murder an enemy of Russia, and make it look like Putin. Main problem: lack of suspects who could actually manage that.....
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Iz
post Mar 14 2018, 07:56 PM
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That is one thing I have to commend May and her administration for, to go for a move that the USA should have done ages ago. The Russian government is a huge threat, they're not playing by the same rules all the other governments are and it's about time someone called them on their actions.
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Doctor Blind
post Mar 14 2018, 08:10 PM
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I think it's pretty obvious Russia are behind this, unfortunately with this corrupt lot in government we can't really do more than we've done which to be honest won't even put a ripple in their pond. We are politically a bit of a lightweight and without the backing of the EU come next March, we'll be even more adrift and powerless soon.

Funnily enough Labour had tabled a Magnitsky amendment to the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill going through Parliament but the Tories (who just so happen to receive a lot of political funding from rich Russian oligarchs who also just so happen to have a lot of dodgy money invested in London property) were less than willing to support it.

What a surprise! Still, at least Putin gets to laugh at us. Oh and Saint Theresa gets to look like she's actually doing something meaningful... which she isn't.


This post has been edited by Doctor Blind: Mar 14 2018, 08:12 PM
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Popchartfreak
post Mar 14 2018, 08:31 PM
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..and meanwhile what have all those staunch defenders of British values been tweeting about?

Attempted Murder of a British citizen by a foreign state, and demanding action against the use of nerve agents?

No, not at all. What a surprise.

https://twitter.com/TemperanceNuan1/status/...485985609764864

A big hi to Nigel Farage in particular who's been tweeting like mad about ISIS and nasty terrorist threats from nasty brown foreigners - but apparently government sanctioned terrorism is fine as long as they are Russians. Gosh, I wonder why he loves Putin so much that he can't bring himself to ever ever criticise him. Same reason trump can't, one suspects.
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Rooney
post Mar 14 2018, 09:18 PM
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If there is one thing I trust, is our defence and secret service. If they said the nerve agent was from Russia then I fully believe it, there is nothing for us to gain for us to make false accusations.

I am not May's biggest fan (and Corbyn's response was why I don't think he is a suitable PM) and I totally agree that her hand really has been forced by the large public interest and also the fact many innocent civillians and a city has been caught up in this. Expelling the diplomats spells a big message and I am sure Russia will retaliate against us also but like it's already been said somebody needs to stand up to Russia because they have been getting away with what they want for ages.
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Queef of Peace
post Mar 14 2018, 09:23 PM
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It's laughable that Russia always acts like the innocent party and says Mad May's actions were 'unacceptable' after they used highly reactive substances to kill someone in a UK town!
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Doctor Blind
post Mar 14 2018, 09:51 PM
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Interesting position from Macron, of course he's not 'suitable PM material' either and should be boo'ed for not standing behind R Theresa.

QUOTE
In contrast to German chancellor Angela Merkel and US president Donald Trump who assured British prime minister Theresa May they were taking her government’s views on possible Russian involvement extremely seriously, President Emmanuel Macron and other French officials have declined to mention Russia.

After France initialled condemned the nerve agent attack on Sergei Skripal and his daughter and expressed solidarity with Britain on Tuesday, French government spokesman Benjamin Griveaux on Wednesday said it was too early for Paris to decide whether action should be taken.

“We don’t do fantasy politics. Once the elements are proven, then the time will come for decisions to be made,” Griveaux told a news conference shortly after May said she was expelling Russian diplomats and suspending bilateral talks.

While he called the attack a “very serious act” on a strategic ally, Griveaux said France was waiting for “definitive conclusions” and evidence that the “facts were completely true” before taking a position.

France’s muted reaction is in contrast with its closest allies, but is in line with Macron’s efforts since coming into office to build a new relationship with Russia’s Vladimir Putin.

Rather than directly confronting Putin through threats and megaphone diplomacy, he has emphasised private dialogue, while pushing for a restoration of business and cultural ties despite existing European Union sanctions on Moscow.

Diplomats say Macron believes ostracising Moscow will not yield results given its importance on the world stage and role in world crises. Despite obvious differences, he believes it is vital to keep a working relationship going with Russia.

Standing alongside Putin last May at the Chateau de Versailles, Macron heralded the start to a new page in relations after tensions under the previous administration. He said at the time that he wouldn’t let differences over Syria, Ukraine and human rights strain their relationship.

Nearly a year on, there is little evidence to suggest he has gained anything tangible from the alternative approach in terms of foreign policy successes. However, he is due to be the guest of honour at an investor forum in St Petersburg at the end of May where a large French business delegation will also be present.

“France has a policy on Russia that it’s going to stick to. There’s no reason for this to knock that off target,” a French official said. “You’ve got to remember there are pretty close ties between France and Russia, whether around literature, culture and business, and they are important.”
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⚅⚄⚃⚂⚁⚀
post Mar 14 2018, 09:55 PM
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Only Fools And Horses predicted this would happen over 30 years ago!

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Rooney
post Mar 14 2018, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Mar 14 2018, 09:51 PM) *
Interesting position from Macron, of course he's not 'suitable PM material' either and should be boo'ed for not standing behind R Theresa.


Corbyn's comments were ill-founded and bloody stupid. Most of the Commons was in complete agreement with the Prime Minister. It was a crazy comment for him to make and obvious to appease a core following of his. I don't see why Britain would lie or why they need to send the sampling off to Russia, we all know exactly what the outcome is going to be.

Macron has his own agenda too, as alluded to in the article. But state-sponsored terrorism has not happened in his country to the best of my knowledge so the two situations are slightly incomparable in the context.
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Queef of Peace
post Mar 15 2018, 12:08 AM
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The comment about the Tories accepting a lot of money from Russia?

It was the PERFECT time to bring it up. It is the truth.
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vidcapper
post Mar 15 2018, 06:50 AM
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QUOTE(Cody Rippon @ Mar 14 2018, 07:17 PM) *
we’re really heading into the next world war aren’t we


Speaking as someone who grew up during the Cold War period, current events are certainly no worse than happened back then, so I suggest there's no reason to panic.

QUOTE(Shia LeMuffQueef @ Mar 15 2018, 12:08 AM) *
The comment about the Tories accepting a lot of money from Russia?

It was the PERFECT time to bring it up. It is the truth.


It might be, but OTOH you have a tendency to believe the worst of the Tories in any given situation...
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Crazy Chris
post Mar 15 2018, 07:57 AM
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So did anyone hear what Russia's UN ambassador said about us Brits? He said we're "easily influenced and not very well educated" His exact words.biggrin.gif At first I thought I'd misheard but no, wife heard it too and was as shocked as me.

This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: Mar 16 2018, 10:01 AM
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Queef of Peace
post Mar 15 2018, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Mar 15 2018, 06:50 AM) *
Speaking as someone who grew up during the Cold War period, current events are certainly no worse than happened back then, so I suggest there's no reason to panic.
It might be, but OTOH you have a tendency to believe the worst of the Tories in any given situation...


Like, it is fact? You can research it yourself? It's not believing the worst, as it simply IS the worst - it is fact.
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Queef of Peace
post Mar 15 2018, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Mar 15 2018, 07:57 AM) *
I am fuming. Did anyone hear what Russia's UN ambassador said about us Brits? Was live on Sky News which I watched whilst waiting for the second Corrie. He said we're "easily influenced and not very well educated" His exact words.biggrin.gif Damned cheek, couldn't believe it. At first I thought I'd misheard but no, wife heard it too and was as shocked as me.


Well, with the Murdoch press and Brexit, that is the opinion people have of us on the worldwide stage. Stop being so easily influenced by the press and improve education standards and that opinion will fade.
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vidcapper
post Mar 15 2018, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE(Shia LeMuffQueef @ Mar 15 2018, 08:40 AM) *
Like, it is fact? You can research it yourself? It's not believing the worst, as it simply IS the worst - it is fact.


So you are admitting that it is fact that you tend to believe the worst of Tories, regardless? unsure.gif
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Suedehead2
post Mar 15 2018, 10:10 AM
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Corbyn was perfectly entitled to question the evidence. That's part of his job. If Iain Duncan Smith had been prepared to join Charles Kennedy in questioning Tony Blair over Iraq, Britain's part in that calamity might have been avoided.

It is also perfectly reasonable to mention the money donated to the Tories by various oligarchs. After all, we all know that you don't get to be be fabulously wealthy in Russia without being pally with Putin. Therefore, the donations are relevant when considering the government's response to suggestions that these same people should be the subject of government sanctions.

While it is hard to reach any conclusion other than that Russia was directly involved in the attack, there are unanswered questions. In particular, why did they use a substance that was so easily traceable back to Russia? Its not exactly subtle is it?
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vidcapper
post Mar 15 2018, 10:38 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Mar 15 2018, 10:10 AM) *
Corbyn was perfectly entitled to question the evidence. That's part of his job.

While it is hard to reach any conclusion other than that Russia was directly involved in the attack, there are unanswered questions. In particular, why did they use a substance that was so easily traceable back to Russia? Its not exactly subtle is it?


Or : why did Corbyn himself seem defensive of the Russians in PMQ's?
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