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Tombo
post Jun 24 2018, 04:15 PM
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It’s disgusting how much homophobia there is in the world.

Im on a Facebook group for Marvel movies and some one shared an article about how there is a lack of LGBT representation in the MCU movies and so many of the comments were negative and really homophobic. It’s worked me up a bit seeing all the hatred.

This isn’t the only place I’ve seen it either, it is everywhere I hear homophobic attitudes, whether I’m walking down the streets or at a social event etc

Outside of LGBT circles, there is still so much hatred and homophobia. It is disgusting.

Because a lot of LGBT people spend most of their time in LGBT circles, they don’t always see what things are like on the other side sad.gif

What are your views on contemporary homophobia? Have you experienced it yourself is you are gay? (Or biphobia/transphobia/etc)
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Jack
post Jun 24 2018, 04:18 PM
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I think progress has been made but it is still very very much present. It always creeps up with the Facebook posts that promote LGBTQ events / Pride with the Facebook stay at home mums and Brexit c**ts who say 'stop f***in postin this gay shit' or something to the same degree. Then of course in public there is the subconscious of many people who look down or maybe judge people who are openly gay too.

It is definetly getting better but I really can't see it ever being completely erradicated unfortunately sad.gif We have come a long way but with recent things such as Trump being elected, it shows the majority of people imo are homophobic.
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Queef of Skreech
post Jun 24 2018, 05:19 PM
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The right wing aee off the BOIL right now. They think they are winning, Brexit, Trump, etc, so we get to see their ugly face. At least it's not hidden anymore so we know what we non-bigoted people (not sayin progressive as um not hating people for being different in some way to someone else should not be progressive, but normal) are dealing with.
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Lindsey 🙃
post Jun 25 2018, 01:53 AM
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In most cases where I experience it, its not maybe as "obvious" as it can be, like i know a lot of people that will come away with homophobic comments that they dont even realise are homophobic... "I've got nothing against gay people i just don't like it when they're shoving it in our faces" "i dont understand why they need pride events" "oh they're gay? Thats a shame" i could go on tbh and thats literally ones ive heard this week never mind in my life time :')

Biphobia is something that is very very real and I'm so aware of it as a bi girl because there's a lot of biphobic thinking that i even had internalised when i was younger and it seems as though its literally ingrained into people. I don't even know where to begin with some of the things I've heard but imagine homophobia but like doubled as it comes from both the LGBTQ community and outside of it. Some Bi people are made to feel like they're not gay enough to be LGBTQ which is one of the most ridiculous things as why should a minority group be discriminated against by another minority group?! Not to sound bad as I 100% realise everyone has their fair share of struggles but I sometimes think it would be easier for me to say I'm gay rather than I'm bisexual, especially to my parents bc that big old can of biphobic thinking/stereotypes is massive. I think we live in an age where pretty much everyone understands what it means to be gay whereas thats not the case with bisexuality so i know that as soon as i come out to people theres gonna be a whole load of questions that i otherwise wouldnt get if i was gay. Even when I've came out really casually to people who i know will get it ask me stereotypical questions like "do you have a preference?" "Oh you're basically a lesbian then" "are u sure ur not just gay?" Like ������ its more frustrating than offensive in these cases though.

I kinda wanna rant a bit more about biphobia so i might do another post in here tomorrow when i can actually think about what I'm saying as im SO tired rn but its something thats been on my mind more than usual and it doesn't really get a platform outside of the bi community so i wanna get that off my chest even tho i know there's only a couple of other bi people on here but still
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Liаm
post Jun 25 2018, 01:55 AM
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There's definitely a long way to go, in general things are a lot better and it's not so explicitly prevalent in many ways, but there's obviously still a lot that needs to change. An example recently was when Rana and Kate kissed/got together in Coronation Street, on their social media there are obviously the fans who are glad of representation celebrating it but there's ALWAYS "we don't need to see that!1!1!1" or "disgusting children are watching, it's pre-watershed" or "every character is gay now, disgusting this doesn't represent real life". If they so much as hold hands yet nobody bats an eyelid for straight sex scenes at 7:30pm rolleyes.gif There's so much of this "think of the children" yet it's the younger generation that wouldn't bat an eyelid at it, it's more harmful that they are being exposed to such ignorance and hatred over something as simple as two people kissing. I don't care if those people are "old-fashioned" and "back in their day" that wasn't "normal", it's 2018 and there is no excuse. I do not see how people are so bothered about who someone else falls in love with, and what they do with that person. It does not harm anyone, children aren't gonna keel over and die or even worse ALL TURN GAY ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif Kids probably see gay people on TV and are just like "oh it's a relationship", it's not until you teach that hate and discrimination and act like it's different that it happens. There's always a lot of "I don't hate gays I just don't want to see them kiss on my TV", as if that makes it better, but you're just admitting an implicit attitude and making it explicitly clear which is as bad so soz hun that doesn't excuse you. If you have "nothing against it" then how does a kiss or holding hands or the mere existence of gay characters and relationships on a TV show affect you so much?

There's still so many stereotypes too, even my friends who are totally fine and not homophobic at all can come out with some of them, and I know that they don't mean it, I think a lot of them are so deeply ingrained and whilst they are often harmless enough it just shows that even with little things there's so far to go. Like what music people listen to, what they enjoy, the way they act or dress, "oh that's kinda gay", and then the immature gay jokes that schoolkids everywhere still feel the need to use laugh.gif

I think transphobia etc. is in an even worse position, there is such a discord between "tradition" and now, even moreso than with sexuality. Any time you see anything about gender neutrality for example, there's an overwhelming amount of comments that are absolutely disgusting - "he's a he - he's got a dick" (you see that with trans people too) "what a load of shit there's male and female, no offence I'm just old fashioned!1!". Honestly how absolutely utterly thick do you have to be to not realise that biological sex and gender are two totally different things? I know that there are certain biological traits between men and women that have evolved and inform gender stereotypes but there are so many things to do with gender that if you think about it make no real sense and are just so drummed in through culture and society that people will not see anything different. It's just ignorant and lazy tbh, you don't have to learn the entire spectrum of sexuality or gender, but honestly does it really take much cognisance to realise that there is male, female and "other"... How can you even be arsed to worry so much about what's in someone's underwear and whether it matches how they feel and present?? It's really not that difficult to understand that biological sex is a fact but gender is socially constructed and because of that there is a wealth of experiences that can lead to a wealth of different ways of feeling. Just because Barry from Wincanton has less brain cells than options in the binary and feels the need to comment on BBC News articles because it's SUCH an outrage that someone doesn't really feel either male or female.

I know we are of a more free and understanding generation, but I just cannot fathom how people are so ignorant and it's one of the things that riles me the most in life :/
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vidcapper
post Jun 25 2018, 05:40 AM
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QUOTE(Jack @ Jun 24 2018, 05:18 PM) *
Then of course in public there is the subconscious of many people who look down or maybe judge people who are openly gay too.


If it's subconscious, how can you tell? unsure.gif

Also, which should be the priority for activism - those (mostly) western countries that have already recognised gay rights, or those other countries where they have none?


This post has been edited by vidcapper: Jun 25 2018, 05:40 AM
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Dexton
post Jun 25 2018, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 25 2018, 01:40 PM) *
If it's subconscious, how can you tell? unsure.gif

Also, which should be the priority for activism - those (mostly) western countries that have already recognised gay rights, or those other countries where they have none?


It depends on whether you’d rather have half of society appear happy with the other half miserable, or have everyone be just “ok”. The current situation isn’t great worldwide but I suppose having hope isn’t an entirely bad thing
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Cucumberella
post Jun 25 2018, 09:09 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 25 2018, 06:40 AM) *
If it's subconscious, how can you tell? unsure.gif

Also, which should be the priority for activism - those (mostly) western countries that have already recognised gay rights, or those other countries where they have none?


it's those who don't actively go out of their way to be homophobic but may be through microaggressions or subconscious thought patterns.

and in terms of priorities for activism, who said there is a shortage of activists? we can both continue to maintain the progress that has already been made whilst addressing the urgent needs of homosexuals in the eastern world / countries who don't have the necessary rights for LGBTQIA+ individuals. gay marriage and gay rights are massive achievements but as long as people are being killed / shamed / selected negatively for LGBTQIA+ reasons, there will always be work to be done. why would we give up on that? we should always embrace a chance to consistently improve the world.

i can almost predict everytime you post in a progressive topic or post a topic that you're going to be contrary so idk why i'm replying
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vidcapper
post Jun 25 2018, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE(Cucumberella @ Jun 25 2018, 10:09 AM) *
it's those who don't actively go out of their way to be homophobic but may be through microaggressions or subconscious thought patterns.


I had to Google 'microaggressions' as I'd never heard of the term before.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/mic...-more-just-race

Having done so though, I hope we never reach a situation where unconscious body language is deemed a 'hatecrime', as to me, that would be verging on the Orwellian.

QUOTE
i can almost predict everytime you post in a progressive topic or post a topic that you're going to be contrary so idk why i'm replying


I spent a good 10-15 minutes trying to put my original comment in as non-confrontational terms as I could, so what more can I be expected to do? Assuming you wouldn't be so bold as to say I shouldn't express opinions on progressive matters? unsure.gif
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Cucumberella
post Jun 25 2018, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 25 2018, 10:31 AM) *
I had to Google 'microaggressions' as I'd never heard of the term before.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/mic...-more-just-race

Having done so though, I hope we never reach a situation where unconscious body language is deemed a 'hatecrime', as to me, that would be verging on the Orwellian.
I spent a good 10-15 minutes trying to put my original comment in as non-confrontational terms as I could, so what more can I be expected to do? Assuming you wouldn't be so bold as to say I shouldn't express opinions on progressive matters? unsure.gif


microaggression goes past body language. for instance people going 'i usually hate gay people but you're alright' which i've had a lot, it's really awkward and uncomfortable.

and for the record i didn't think there was anything 'offensive' per se about your post and it doesn't bother me. i just find a sort of eye-rolling predictability in the fact you seem to be contrary to nearly anything deemed progressive or liberal, in a way that must speak volumes of your beliefs (of course that's an assumption on my behalf so if you're a champion for equality for sexual minorities, race, transgender people and women then kudos to you but i definitely do not get that vibe from you). you're free to continuing posting about it by all means.

i am interested to know what your unproduced version of that original post would be though. i know when i'm speaking i (generally) don't have to produce, edit or limit myself so i wonder what it is that you're trying to conceal.
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Jüpiter
post Jun 25 2018, 10:03 AM
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I think the next thing that needs to be tackled is probably heteronormativity - that is, the assumption that heterosexuality is the only 'normal, natural, child-appropriate' sexuality t exist and be shown on tv, in books, newspapers, media etc.

Getting that out of the way would open the door easier for a lot of other things to be accepted and stop people from getting a whole lot of potentially homophobic ideas into their heads in the first place, so there wouldn't be re-education or later 'opening of the mind' to overwrite what people already believe.

Interestingly enough little kids are one group of people who learn t not be prejudiced really easily because they'll just accept whatever you tell them. It's older people with a particular worldview that are generally a harder sell.

Homophobia sucks, it has got better for sure, but it's definitely not gone away, and I feel like people looking at only the progress can get lost in that and not take the lack of it in other areas as seriously as they should. Having said that, the improvements are heartening and still surprise me sometimes.
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vidcapper
post Jun 25 2018, 10:11 AM
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QUOTE(Cucumberella @ Jun 25 2018, 10:36 AM) *
and for the record i didn't think there was anything 'offensive' per se about your post and it doesn't bother me.


I appreciate that clarification.

QUOTE
i just find a sort of eye-rolling predictability in the fact you seem to be contrary to nearly anything deemed progressive or liberal, in a way that must speak volumes of your beliefs (of course that's an assumption on my behalf so if you're a champion for equality for sexual minorities, race, transgender people and women then kudos to you but i definitely do not get that vibe from you). you're free to continuing posting about it by all means.
They are a subject I usually shy away from, as despite my best intentions, I sometimes end up giving offence, even though I *never* intend to.

QUOTE
i am interested to know what your unproduced version of that original post would be though.


That's a minefield I really don't want to step into! tongue.gif

QUOTE
i know when i'm speaking i (generally) don't have to produce, edit or limit myself so i wonder what it is that you're trying to conceal.


In my case, it is simply not habitual for me to express opinions that match the politically orthodox status quo - that's why I have to be so careful. Because I am not part of a legally protected minority, I cannot always anticipate what may cause offence.

When I was growing up, people didn't have to carefully consider every word they uttered, just in case they offended someone. If you *wanted* to offend someone, then there would be no mistaking it - but it is the concept of accidentally or even unknowingly giving offence, that, I struggle with.

Regards,

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vidcapper
post Jun 25 2018, 10:19 AM
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QUOTE(Jüpiter @ Jun 25 2018, 11:03 AM) *
I think the next thing that needs to be tackled is probably heteronormativity - that is, the assumption that heterosexuality is the only 'normal, natural, child-appropriate' sexuality t exist and be shown on tv, in books, newspapers, media etc.


I suspect that might be quite a challenge, since advertisers, and the media in general, normally have a specific target audience in mind - e.g. trying to sell the latest smartphone to technophobic pensioners is probably not going to be very successful... wink.gif
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jun 25 2018, 10:48 AM
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wtf has technophobic pensioners and advertising got to do with tackling heteronormativity? huh.gif

---

I think Jupiter is right. For a lot of the western world part of our fight is for ending a able-bodied heteronormative culture so that it isn't ingrained that the idea of a "normal" household is mum, dad and 2.5 kids. It also has positive impacts on single parent families and families with disabilities as well.

The rest of our ongoing fight here in the west is for what Lindsey and Liam spoke about. Biphobia and the Gender Binary. We need better Gender Recognition laws to allow for self-certification. We need better access to health care for trans and non-binary people, especially those who wish to medically transition. There needs to be a greater acceptance that not every trans person will medically transition and that doesn't make them any less trans than those who do.

There's so much left for us to accomplish, the fight in the west has just begun. And just because we're fighting for better rights doesn't mean we can't support and fight for LGBTQIA+ rights around the globe or support the fight of other minority groups such as #BlackLivesMatter or be feminists and actively support women.
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Queef of Skreech
post Jun 25 2018, 10:52 AM
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The last one I heard,well read on fb, was about a celebrity some women were talking about, can't remember which one, "oh he's gay. That's a shame". That is a microaggression and really homophobic, but the facebook moms etc don't realise that they are being homophobic in sayin it
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jun 25 2018, 10:57 AM
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I've taken to saying "oh, they're straight? What a waste"
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vidcapper
post Jun 25 2018, 11:04 AM
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jun 25 2018, 11:48 AM) *
wtf has technophobic pensioners and advertising got to do with tackling heteronormativity? huh.gif


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy

QUOTE
The rest of our ongoing fight here in the west is for what Lindsey and Liam spoke about. Biphobia and the Gender Binary. We need better Gender Recognition laws to allow for self-certification. We need better access to health care for trans and non-binary people, especially those who wish to medically transition.


Doesn't that lead to the question of whether they should get such treatment on the NHS? unsure.gif

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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jun 25 2018, 11:13 AM
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I'm not a moron, I know what an analogy is. I'm questioning the relevance of said analogy to the topic of conversation.
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JSG
post Jun 25 2018, 11:29 AM
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I would say that of course progress has been made in making more people aware of the LGBT+ community but there still remains a significant amount of the public that remain ignorant to the homophobia that still happens in this day and age. It definitely is much much better than it was even just ten years ago and I respect and am grateful that homosexuality is taught about in school now because that encourages the next generation accept what is not necessarily their own version of normal.

I haven't experienced anything homophobic myself since I was a child but one of my friends who was out in Edinburgh with his boyfriend got beat up for holding hands with his boyfriend while outside a club in the early hours of the morning last month.
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Lindsey 🙃
post Jun 25 2018, 11:38 AM
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Coming off the back of what Liam said, it really doesn't take much to educate yourself on other gender identities or sexualities and I feel like most of the problems I've seen with biphobia largely stems from ignorance rather than blatant hatred or unacceptance, which is what gets under my skin. It is usually older generations as well but I guess that's because they're not exposed to the internet the way we are so they don't hear about LGBTQ stuff the same, especially if they're straight. I'll never forget the day I was pitching one of my disseration ideas about how there's not enough representation for LGBTQ people in mainstream media and how that's a problem and got told that its not a problem and we've got enough as it is by my two lecturers.

But yea, the stereotypes are what's most damaging for bisexual individuals. I feel like when the time comes for me to tell my family, I'm gonna spend most of that conversation debunking all of those and explaining why they're not true...
  • Bisexuality is just a stepping stone on the way to coming out as gay or a word gay people use when they dont want to fully come out
  • Bisexuality doesn't exist, its just a phase for people who can't pick a side
  • Bisexual people will be more likely to cheat in their relationships or always want to be with someone of the opposite sex from their partner - theres so many lesbians that won't date bi girls because they think they'll leave them for a man mellow.gif
  • Bisexual people are just straight but might kiss people of their own gender for attention/fun/when drunk etc
  • Bi people are just confused or more promiscuous than most
  • Bi people can never commit to one person

And thats just some of the things I've come across, most of them are ridiculous but the "pick a side" one is the worst. You get a lot of people that are like so are you half gay half straight? And I'm like no... one of the best ways ive heard someone describe that is you wouldn't call purple half red and half blue, its purple and recognised as it's own colour so why isn't bisexuality thought of as the same?

Tackling heteronormativity and educating people about the gender and sexuality spectrum is definitely the way to go. Its why I'm so big on positive representation in mainstream media because that is the perfect opportunity to reach so many people and show them what it can really mean to be part of the LGBTQ community, bisexuals are never shown right but i feel like had they been on TV when i was growing up, it might have been easier to figure things out and open up a convo about it with people i felt i couldnt.

In reply to vidcappers point, sure our issues aren't as extreme as other parts of the world where people get killed for being who they are but our progressions here shouldn't be paused while we wait for other countries to catch up, it can be an on going strive universally and we can set the example
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