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> Fairytale Of New York 'f-word' debate, split from Spotify thread
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365
post Dec 2 2018, 07:18 PM
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Songs by straight people with ‘fa**ot’ in the lyrics shouldn’t be a thing in 2018, at very least it should be censored on radio I think!
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post Dec 2 2018, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE(Wasabi. @ Dec 2 2018, 07:18 PM) *
Songs by straight people with ‘fa**ot’ in the lyrics shouldn’t be a thing in 2018.


Legit don’t get why people are so easily offended!
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mdh
post Dec 2 2018, 07:38 PM
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Ref. "Fairytale of New York" saying f*****, I am absolutely certain that no offence was meant by the lyric and it wasn't written with the intention of direct homophobia. I'm not in any way defending the use of the word in daily life, when used as an insult it's absolutely unexcusable, but I've never known anyone (including all my LGBT friends) to get offended by the track - I would call it problematic to flag the song up and say it shouldn't be a thing as Kirsty MacColl obviously had zero intention to pick on or invalidate gay people by writing the lyrics. The song was written in a time of serious unrest in Ireland so I would say that the lyric is intended more in a jokey way, as a way of appealing to the masses in Ireland by using traditional language to encourage singing along in a carefree manner.

Ultimately, I think there are MUCH more pressing issues regarding misuse of language towards the LGBT community than a lighthouse Christmas song.


This post has been edited by mdh: Dec 2 2018, 07:40 PM
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iain
post Dec 2 2018, 07:49 PM
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The issues with Fairytale of NewYork are very well summarised here.

http://theguyliner.com/opinion/dont-f-with-me-at-christmas/

I’d suggest everybody reads it before making ill informed comments.
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Steve201
post Dec 2 2018, 07:50 PM
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Did we not have this debate in 2005?
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iain
post Dec 2 2018, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Dec 2 2018, 07:50 PM) *
Did we not have this debate in 2005?


And it’s a debate that is still worth having.
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365
post Dec 2 2018, 08:02 PM
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It wouldn’t be acceptable for white people to be dropping the N bomb in music (it’s even blurred out for people of colour on the radio). So I don’t get why an offensive gay slur can be used in that song, even if it wasn’t originally used as a slur. It always seems like straight people who say it’s ‘not offensive,’ and it’s not really something they get a say on whether it’s triggering for LGBT+ groups or not.
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post Dec 2 2018, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE(Wasabi. @ Dec 2 2018, 08:02 PM) *
It wouldn’t be acceptable for white people to be dropping the N bomb in music (it’s even blurred out for people of colour on the radio). So I don’t get why an offensive gay slur can be used in that song, even if it wasn’t originally used as a slur. It always seems like straight people who say it’s ‘not offensive,’ and it’s not really something they get a say on whether it’s triggering for LGBT+ groups or not.


I know gay people who sing along to it and are not in the slightest offended by it? I don’t think I’ve ever met someone who’s offended by it if I’m being honest!
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365
post Dec 2 2018, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE(ZaraRuinMyLife @ Dec 2 2018, 08:48 PM) *
I know gay people who sing along to it and are not in the slightest offended by it? I don’t think I’ve ever met someone who’s offended by it if I’m being honest!


I know absolutely loads of people who think it’s weird that it’s okay for the radio play that word.

The article Iain posted above is very imformative and explains the issue more elegantly than I can, so I recommend it, it’s a good read.
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JosephStyles
post Dec 2 2018, 09:12 PM
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The article is a great read and I agree with most of it. Ultimately I don't really think it's for anyone who isn't LGBTQ+ to say it's not offensive because it's not a word that will ever be used against you. The fact that the n-word is bleeped out, bitch is bleeped out, yet faggot isn't is quite weird to me. The fact that the context of the word was different back then doesn't matter in my eyes, it's still an offensive and derogatory word.
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Steve201
post Dec 2 2018, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE(iain @ Dec 2 2018, 07:51 PM) *
And it’s a debate that is still worth having.


Tbf I hadn't read the article when I posted that just the general debate. Think radio 1 play the original al version, right?
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lewistgreen
post Dec 2 2018, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Dec 2 2018, 09:20 PM) *
Tbf I hadn't read the article when I posted that just the general debate. Think radio 1 play the original al version, right?


They edited it about 10 years ago to absolute uproar online about it. I think they reverted back to the original?
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JosephStyles
post Dec 2 2018, 09:29 PM
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QUOTE(lewistgreen @ Dec 2 2018, 09:22 PM) *
They edited it about 10 years ago to absolute uproar online about it. I think they reverted back to the original?

Unfortunately they do tend to play the uncensored version
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post Dec 2 2018, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE(Wasabi. @ Dec 2 2018, 08:02 PM) *
It wouldn’t be acceptable for white people to be dropping the N bomb in music (it’s even blurred out for people of colour on the radio). So I don’t get why an offensive gay slur can be used in that song, even if it wasn’t originally used as a slur. It always seems like straight people who say it’s ‘not offensive,’ and it’s not really something they get a say on whether it’s triggering for LGBT+ groups or not.
I agree tbh.

Also, is she not using it in an offensive way? She's literally calling him a scumbag in the same sentence? So (unless I'm completely misinterpreting) I am not getting the "it wasn't used offensively" point at all from you, mdh laugh.gif sorry tongue.gif

P.s. could this be split from the Spotify thread? Coz it's actually a really interesting debate.
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post Dec 2 2018, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE(SweetButJonjo👻 @ Dec 2 2018, 09:31 PM) *
I agree tbh.

Also, is she not using it in an offensive way? She's literally calling him a scumbag in the same sentence? So (unless I'm completely misinterpreting) I am not getting the "it wasn't used offensively" point at all from you, mdh laugh.gif sorry tongue.gif

P.s. could this be split from the Spotify thread? Coz it's actually a really interesting debate.

It is meant to be offensive but not in the homophobic sense (''f****t' in this song meaning 'a lazy person'), still reckon they should censor that (and, from the same song, '$l*t') on the radio though considering what they mean to most people but I imagine R1 won't be doing that this year at least considering the huge backlash they got for doing it 10 years ago.
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post Dec 2 2018, 09:48 PM
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I know as a gay guy that some consider the word offensive.
I seen a pack of 4 Fags in Tesco the other day...people dont boycot Tesco.

Can you imagine her singing....

Ya cheep lousy bundle of sticks.....
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post Dec 2 2018, 09:54 PM
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The unedited version was played on Weekend Breakfast on Radio 1 yesterday
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Liаm
post Dec 2 2018, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE(Wasabi. @ Dec 2 2018, 08:02 PM) *
It wouldn’t be acceptable for white people to be dropping the N bomb in music (it’s even blurred out for people of colour on the radio). So I don’t get why an offensive gay slur can be used in that song, even if it wasn’t originally used as a slur. It always seems like straight people who say it’s ‘not offensive,’ and it’s not really something they get a say on whether it’s triggering for LGBT+ groups or not.

100% agreed! It's almost always straight white people deciding that racial slurs, gay slurs, or sexist language "isn't offensive" and it's legit so tedious. You don't get to say what is and isn't offensive for somebody else, especially when said people are the same who'd be the first to get incredibly offended by a Paul Walker joke or someone not wearing a poppy.

I don't usually buy into this whole finding everything offensive thing necessarily but I think this is such a valid point.
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mdh
post Dec 2 2018, 09:57 PM
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You've edited your original post now, but your previous statement that Fairytale Of New York "shouldn't be a thing" altogether is definitely an over exaggeration.

This post has been edited by mdh: Dec 2 2018, 09:58 PM
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365
post Dec 2 2018, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE(lewistgreen @ Dec 2 2018, 09:22 PM) *
They edited it about 10 years ago to absolute uproar online about it. I think they reverted back to the original?


This is indeed correct. But I do think people are generally a bit more clued in and socially aware now than 10 years ago.

It’s easy to say that people are being ‘snowflakes’ or are ‘too easily offended’, but the fact is that ‘bi*ch’ is censored as it’s a misogynistic, the N word because it’s a known racist word, ‘dy*e’ because it is offensive to lesbians so why should a word used and known mainly as a gay slur be allowed in the radio? I know it’s meant to be a ‘silly fun song’ but it doesn’t make sense when even ‘chains and whips’ isn’t allowed in Rihanna’s S&M, and that isn’t even offensive.
‘Faggot’ is a word that even still today is used to bully or taunt gay people, I had it a lot in high school, so for a lot of people it is indeed triggering to hear it so brazenly on the radio with straight people shouting along ‘you cheap lousy faggot’ -

I did a quick poll on Twitter just now after this came up and these were the results:



I’m not personally massively offended by it, my first post was a flippant (half joke) remark, but I still find it a very odd double standard and 100% see why others are offended.
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