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> Game of Thrones A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, S08E02 | spoilers for episode inside
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Klaus
post Apr 21 2019, 10:09 PM
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oops forgot it was Sunday

As its so late, going to try something different this week. SPOILERS ALLOWED ONCE EPISODE HAS AIRED FOR THE FIRST TIME
That means as soon as the episode is live (aka 2am in the UK) spoilers will be allowed.

If anyone has objections, please let me know because I really dont know the best approach to generate discussion without blocks of black!
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I. :II: z
post Apr 22 2019, 04:50 AM
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Hopefully few people will be entering a discussion thread on it without having watched it, particularly given there are individual episodes. And with that warning in the first post, I doubt anyone will read beyond it if they are concerned. So I'll only put in what I think are the biggest spoilers of the episode in black.

plus Twitter et al are all over it so I think wider social media is doing a better job of giving out spoilers than we are.

THAT SAID, I really enjoyed that episode.

It was basically an hour of Helm's Deep-like prepreparation and characters effectively saying goodbye to life by doing things, like Brienne getting knighted, that whole cluster of characters having a drinking sesh, Podrick doing Pippin-like singing, the Night's Watch having a reunion, ARYA AND GENDRY (in what was my favourite scene of the episode because it's Arya getting to do something normal, that she wants to do) getting it on.

Both very LOTR-like and reflective of the early seasons the way it tied some things up like Bran and Jaime's confrontation. Really satisfying for going into the next episode which I'm sure will be a bloodbath of some kind.
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post Apr 22 2019, 04:55 AM
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also, hands up who thinks the crypts are safe?

maybe I'm just putting them in the same headspace as the Helm's Deep caves that it didn't concern me but they were mentioned so many times some people are thinking that perhaps... THE CRYPTS ARE NOT SAFE ohmy.gif
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Jonjo
post Apr 22 2019, 05:39 AM
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No where is safe!!!

Action wise nothing happened, but that's ok! Especially as they were tying up some loose ends and then giving them a breather before all hell breaks loose in the battle next week. Makes me more nervous for next week though.

Arghhh.
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SGrey
post Apr 22 2019, 09:00 AM
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I genuinely was a bit disappointed with this episode in comparison to last week. I know it is the calm before the storm but other than the ending and the beginning with Jaime it very much felt like lets see how much drinking and sex we can get in to try and bring it back to the earlier seasons.

That said, Sansa and Daenerys although a bit short of a scene, was probably the highlight. I would be surprised if the crypts are infact safe - they've made too much reference to them in this episode at least two or three times and as to who will be in there. I know Tyrion has been asked to remain in the crypts by Daenerys but in the trailer shots we haven't seen him???? Then again I thought the fireplace scene was Dragonstone but it was actually Winterfell so I was wrong on that laugh.gif I can't make out in the trailer for next weeks episode as it is so dark whether the dragon is Viserion or one of the other two?????
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Klaus
post Apr 22 2019, 11:09 AM
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as mentioned in first post, spoilers below~~




That definitely felt like a mix of redemption/reflection, the last chance for proper character pieces before we go into the battle next week and then into the battle for the iron throne. It was kind of like a chance to say goodbye to the characters sad.gif

I found Arya sleeping with Gendry though somehow more disturbing than all the incest but I think that's because we've seen her from a young age (despite her being old before her time!)

Jaime has morphed into such a favourite, what a great character development - all tied up full circle with that confrontation with Bran. Ser Brienne too <3

The daggers at Jon from Daenerys though, intrigued as to how that will play out. There's similarities there with Yara/Theon, although of course more Jon is not being interested in the throne. Sansa's talk with Daenerys maybe adds to the theory that Jon will rule the north and Daenerys the rest??

also, yes - the amount of times a character mentioned the crypts being safe, means they certainly will not be!
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SGrey
post Apr 22 2019, 11:32 AM
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Its just habit! laugh.gif

I wonder that too about the north and Jon, especially as hes hammered that as his motivation since the start of his time with Daenerys. I do feel the reveal this week was a bit meh though.
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Dexton
post Apr 22 2019, 01:04 PM
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the crypts are safe
you will be safest in the crypts
i can think of no safer place than the crypts
we need you to stay in the crypts and stay alive
the safest place to be is in the crypts
the crypts are safe
crpyts is the safe place
the crypts are full of hundreds of dead people and the Night King's whole gimmick is that he can bring dead bodies back to 'life' but no the crypts are safe
no one will die in the crypts

Hella theorizing here so spoilered but omg I have so much to talk about
Sure decomposing bodies make weaker/non-existent wites BUT the crypts have always been talked about as freezing cold, much much colder than the rest of Winterfell even still in Summer so it wouldn't surprise me if everyone thats been buried in the crypts over the hundreds of years since Winterfell was built that a good portion of the bodies are still in tact being somewhat preserved. Also theres all the ancient Stark magic (ie the magic that protected the wall from white walkers being able to climb/break it, until Bran stumbled through and accidentally broke the magic wall's aura - OR dragonfire is magic breaking too thus when NK had Viserion melt it down the magic wore off, either way shit loads of magic is involved in everything North rn). Just remembered too that we've seen pure skeletal zombies before too so for sure the ancient Starks can be brought back. Thankfully Cat, Robb, and Ned aren't buried at Winterfell and just have tombs there. I mean Cat and Robb were thrown into the river after the Red Wedding and Joffrey probably did similar to Ned. Rickon is there though...

Grey Worm, Brienne, Jorah, Tormund, Theon, Beric, Edd, and Gendry are all gonna be dead by this time next week. I've never seen so much closure and foreshadowing piled into 58 minutes. Grey Worm and Missandei making future plans, Brienne being knighted by Jaime, Jorah giving Dany his blessing for choosing Tyrion as Hand plus his cousin wishing him luck, Tormund telling the fire crew about his Giantsbane name effectively means he's gonna be killed by a zombie giant, Theon reuniting with Sansa and finally choosing the Starks over the Greyjoys, Beric had one last drink with The Hound, Edd met with Sam and Jon atop the Winterfell wall saying how the last one alive will burn the others bodies, Gendry revealed his genes to Arya and put a baby in her continuing the Baratheon bloodline. Brienne will die in Jaime's arms then Tormund will see this and go ape shit, charging into the WW army and never coming back out alive. This will be when Bronn rocks up and saves Jaime just in time (yet again)

Jorah being given Heartsbane will help him in the upcoming war but I can easily see him surviving most of the battle and dying as they retreat, him being stabbed through the heart by a WW/NK as he reaches eyesight of Dany. Her heartbreak from Jorah dying plus the Jon news will make her do something drastic.

Since Tyrion knows Bran's whole story (also fk you GoT for skipping out on their conversation completing) he now knows they survive this battle and basically knows everything once again, hopefully having learned his lesson from mistrusting Cersei he is now peak-Tyrion again. Dead arise in the crypts, Tyrion leaves to warn the armies above but not before witnessing absolute slaughter at the hands of the Starks and perhaps he is even the one to lock the door behind him preventing the WW's from flanking Winterfell but also condemning any surviving women & children to their death. It's a very messed up theory but plausible tbh and if it did happen Tyrion would probably go mad. At least then it gives Bronn a legitimate reason to kill him then have Jaime take out Bronn.

I'm not sure who else is down in the crypts other than Gilly, Baby Sam, fake-Shireen, Sansa, and Tyrion and presumably Missandei and Varys. Sam will definitley survive this messed up story but I seriously believe he will lose everything in the process - Gilly will be murdered, Baby Sam will be taken by the NK, his father and brother are already dead. I'd suggest him as a maester to whoever takes the throne but if it's anyone other than Jon I'm not too sure. Maybe if Jon becomes King in the North with Dany as Queen in the South Sam could chill at a rebuilt Winterfell. Fire-Shireen might not even be mentioned again but her appearance will definitely have affected Davos and when Melisandre returns he will be pissed af. No one likes her but hopefully her time in Volantis will see her returning with a flock of more Red Priestesses hopefully with enough magic to help take down the NK (which Bran will figure out how exactly to do that soon I hope but idk how)

Arya, Jaime, Sam, The Hound, Melisandre, Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Bran, and Podrick I think will definitely survive the next episode although this Winterfell battle is set to last two episodes so perhaps the episode after might spell the end for some.


Side note: does anyone know wtf is going on in the Vale right now? Robin is the Lord there but is he fighting with Cersei? With the North? Is he just sitting casually at the Eyrie thinking it truly is "unassailable"? Because when zombie dragons start flying South no way will that stone kebab last
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Envoirment
post Apr 22 2019, 02:31 PM
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It was such a good episode and a nice way to build up to the battle. So happy to see Brienne alive and her getting knighted. sob.gif She needs to stay alive!!! It was also nice to see Theon reunited with Sansa and fighting for the Starks.

I was surpised how Arya was pretty much like "I'm not going to die a virgin". laugh.gif The constant talk of everyone dying throughout the episode has made me sad though, as there's likely going to be many, many deaths of characters I love.

It was interesting to see Daenerys' reaction to both Sansa and Jon. I'm more so on Sansa/Jon's side. Perhaps if Daenerys and Jon get married, he can rule the north whilst she rules the rest of the kingdom.

The crypts are certainly not safe and I have the theory that a bunch of the old dead Starks will be revived as white walkers and Jon may have to fight Lyanna, his mother.

The one comforting thing I've gathered from this episode is that not everyone will die in the fight with the Night King and a few key characters should survive as there's still Cersi and her army to deal with. I feel like a few characters are going to die from saving others (The Hound dies saving Arya/Brienne or Jamie die trying to save each other/Davos dies trying to save the girl in the crypt who reminds him of Shireen etc).


This post has been edited by Envoirment: Apr 22 2019, 05:12 PM
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Severin
post Apr 22 2019, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE(Dexton @ Apr 22 2019, 02:04 PM) *
the crypts are safe
you will be safest in the crypts
i can think of no safer place than the crypts
we need you to stay in the crypts and stay alive
the safest place to be is in the crypts
the crypts are safe
crpyts is the safe place
the crypts are full of hundreds of dead people and the Night King's whole gimmick is that he can bring dead bodies back to 'life' but no the crypts are safe
no one will die in the crypts

Hella theorizing here so spoilered but omg I have so much to talk about

~theories~

Side note: does anyone know wtf is going on in the Vale right now? Robin is the Lord there but is he fighting with Cersei? With the North? Is he just sitting casually at the Eyrie thinking it truly is "unassailable"? Because when zombie dragons start flying South no way will that stone kebab last



Ned Stark's bones are buried at Winterfell. Littlefinger had them returned to Catelyn as a goodwill gesture.
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Severin
post Apr 22 2019, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE(Envoirment @ Apr 22 2019, 03:31 PM) *
Stannis dies trying to save the girl in the crypt who reminds him of his daughter etc).

Stannis is long dead.

Don't you mean Davos tries to save the girl who reminds him of Stannis' daughter
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post Apr 22 2019, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE(Dexton @ Apr 22 2019, 01:04 PM) *
Sure decomposing bodies make weaker/non-existent wites BUT the crypts have always been talked about as freezing cold, much much colder than the rest of Winterfell even still in Summer so it wouldn't surprise me if everyone thats been buried in the crypts over the hundreds of years since Winterfell was built that a good portion of the bodies are still in tact being somewhat preserved. Also theres all the ancient Stark magic (ie the magic that protected the wall from white walkers being able to climb/break it, until Bran stumbled through and accidentally broke the magic wall's aura - OR dragonfire is magic breaking too thus when NK had Viserion melt it down the magic wore off, either way shit loads of magic is involved in everything North rn). Just remembered too that we've seen pure skeletal zombies before too so for sure the ancient Starks can be brought back. Thankfully Cat, Robb, and Ned aren't buried at Winterfell and just have tombs there. I mean Cat and Robb were thrown into the river after the Red Wedding and Joffrey probably did similar to Ned. Rickon is there though...


Really good point, I think I remember something like that being mentioned in the first season when Ned and Robert were in there. Eight thousand years of Starks rising to join with the Night King would fit the dramatic narrative. Though I expect Rickon would be forgotten again. And on Ned's burial, the location of his bones is a minor subplot, isn't it? Though they haven't reached Winterfell, they're supposed to, I guess they're with Howland Reed about now perhaps? Likely irrelevant as far as the show goes, and in fact, after looking it up, the show implies that Rickon is buried beside his father, meaning that a zombie Ned is... possible.

QUOTE(Dexton @ Apr 22 2019, 01:04 PM) *
Grey Worm, Brienne, Jorah, Tormund, Theon, Beric, Edd, and Gendry are all gonna be dead by this time next week. I've never seen so much closure and foreshadowing piled into 58 minutes. Grey Worm and Missandei making future plans, Brienne being knighted by Jaime, Jorah giving Dany his blessing for choosing Tyrion as Hand plus his cousin wishing him luck, Tormund telling the fire crew about his Giantsbane name effectively means he's gonna be killed by a zombie giant, Theon reuniting with Sansa and finally choosing the Starks over the Greyjoys, Beric had one last drink with The Hound, Edd met with Sam and Jon atop the Winterfell wall saying how the last one alive will burn the others bodies, Gendry revealed his genes to Arya and put a baby in her continuing the Baratheon bloodline. Brienne will die in Jaime's arms then Tormund will see this and go ape shit, charging into the WW army and never coming back out alive. This will be when Bronn rocks up and saves Jaime just in time (yet again)

Jorah being given Heartsbane will help him in the upcoming war but I can easily see him surviving most of the battle and dying as they retreat, him being stabbed through the heart by a WW/NK as he reaches eyesight of Dany. Her heartbreak from Jorah dying plus the Jon news will make her do something drastic.


I agree a good portion of these characters will die. As much as I'd love to picture Missandei and Grey Worm living it up on a tropical island, those death flags were just horrendously overt. The others I can definitely see going down but Gendry and Brienne + Tormund seem the most likely given how good their actions this episode fit with them dying next episode. I also like the possibility you floated for Jorah, I think he can't survive the story because of its themes, I'm not even sure any of the older generation can but he's the most overt offender left. I was thinking Davos seems like a good candidate for an older generation survivor but with the crypts talk I'm also now thinking he's one of the more likely ones to die. Possible for the others to survive, mostly through luck or irrelevance, the latter for Edd, Beric I feel actually gained a little bit of plot armour with The Hound's comment to him, so unless he takes a heroic last stand position he might make it out, I agree Theon's actions could be seen as similarly final but, I'm feeling like that may be a death too much? When Cersei's army confronts the Winterfell survivors, he's a natural opposite number to Euron and he's been such a big part of the story, I feel he'd need a big death that the episode might not have time for. Though if I'm thinking in those terms and the next episode is all about the irrelevance of life and how easily it's washed away that may not matter...

QUOTE(Dexton @ Apr 22 2019, 01:04 PM) *
I'm not sure who else is down in the crypts other than Gilly, Baby Sam, fake-Shireen, Sansa, and Tyrion and presumably Missandei and Varys. Sam will definitley survive this messed up story but I seriously believe he will lose everything in the process - Gilly will be murdered, Baby Sam will be taken by the NK, his father and brother are already dead. I'd suggest him as a maester to whoever takes the throne but if it's anyone other than Jon I'm not too sure. Maybe if Jon becomes King in the North with Dany as Queen in the South Sam could chill at a rebuilt Winterfell. Fire-Shireen might not even be mentioned again but her appearance will definitely have affected Davos and when Melisandre returns he will be pissed af. No one likes her but hopefully her time in Volantis will see her returning with a flock of more Red Priestesses hopefully with enough magic to help take down the NK (which Bran will figure out how exactly to do that soon I hope but idk how)

Arya, Jaime, Sam, The Hound, Melisandre, Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Bran, and Podrick I think will definitely survive the next episode although this Winterfell battle is set to last two episodes so perhaps the episode after might spell the end for some.


Mostly agree although yes, the second episode might see one or two of these survivors go. I'm even leaning towards Sam getting a death just because everyone's so convinced he'll survive to be the GRRM/Bilbo Baggins storyteller of the series when his connections to worldly things like Gilly may doom him. Bran, Dany and Jon are going to the end of the series, the rest COULD be tossed aside.


QUOTE(Dexton @ Apr 22 2019, 01:04 PM) *
Side note: does anyone know wtf is going on in the Vale right now? Robin is the Lord there but is he fighting with Cersei? With the North? Is he just sitting casually at the Eyrie thinking it truly is "unassailable"? Because when zombie dragons start flying South no way will that stone kebab last


Well, Yohn Royce is in Winterfell and he represents the fighting force of the Lords Of The Vale. Robin's safe out of harm's way in his unassailable Eyrie and himself is irrelevant right now, but for practical purposes, their army is at Winterfell. Which if/when Lord Royce falls, will mean the end of that as far as we're concerned.
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Klaus
post Apr 22 2019, 03:08 PM
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omg theres more black text than ever
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post Apr 22 2019, 03:09 PM
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laugh.gif

I mean, if you've watched the episode, it's entirely SAFE to read all of that, it just depends if you want to get caught up in theorising over things like death flags or not. Some people might want to go into the next episode with no expectations of which characters will die/won't die.
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Dexton
post Apr 22 2019, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ Apr 22 2019, 11:02 PM) *
I agree a good portion of these characters will die. As much as I'd love to picture Missandei and Grey Worm living it up on a tropical island, those death flags were just horrendously overt. The others I can definitely see going down but Gendry and Brienne + Tormund seem the most likely given how good their actions this episode fit with them dying next episode. I also like the possibility you floated for Jorah, I think he can't survive the story because of its themes, I'm not even sure any of the older generation can but he's the most overt offender left. I was thinking Davos seems like a good candidate for an older generation survivor but with the crypts talk I'm also now thinking he's one of the more likely ones to die. Possible for the others to survive, mostly through luck or irrelevance, the latter for Edd, Beric I feel actually gained a little bit of plot armour with The Hound's comment to him, so unless he takes a heroic last stand position he might make it out, I agree Theon's actions could be seen as similarly final but, I'm feeling like that may be a death too much? When Cersei's army confronts the Winterfell survivors, he's a natural opposite number to Euron and he's been such a big part of the story, I feel he'd need a big death that the episode might not have time for. Though if I'm thinking in those terms and the next episode is all about the irrelevance of life and how easily it's washed away that may not matter...


Good point about Theon there, him battling it out in a way against Euron would be a great way to end his story and give him a bit of justice if he were to win, justice that Theon has never really had given all the shit he's been through. But at the same time given he has pretty much always drawn the short straw he could just as easily die a 'regular' death and it would suit his character just as much if not more. He's on a path to redemption sure but maybe that ends with him dying protecting the boy he once stole a castle from and faked burning him alive? Theon has so many possible endings at this point I think he's one of the few side characters I have no idea where he'll be at the end of all this.
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Envoirment
post Apr 22 2019, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE(Severin @ Apr 22 2019, 03:50 PM) *
Stannis is long dead.

Don't you mean Davos tries to save the girl who reminds him of Stannis' daughter


Yes sorry! I get character names mixed up a lot.

It'll be interesting to see how the battle goes, I can't wait! I'm assuming any survivors will leave Winterfell behind and head to the Iron Islands to retreat. A scene similar to when the widlings were retreating by boat as the white walkers stormed their encampment.

Then afterwards the Night King will ignore them and continue to head south towards Kings Landing? I just don't thiink the Night King is going to be killed in the battle and instead he heads further south and brings the fight to Cersi? Perhaps Jon/Daenerys/Bran fly south with Daenerys' dragons to lure the Night King towards Cersi's army and to save the people of Winterfell/the North? Or to at least buy people time to retreat to the Iron islands. Then once the battle begins in Kings Landing, whoever's left that retreated to the Iron Islands will start regrouping/gathering up to send boats to Kings Landing to help?

I just don't want the series to end without Cersi coming face to face with the Night King and his army.
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Dexton
post Apr 22 2019, 03:35 PM
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Actually forgot all about Yohn Royce laugh.gif I love how some of these huge powerful houses from the early series have just been whittled down to the point theres next to noone even left alive in the country. I'd love like a chart just of how many known members of each big family there were in the beginning compared to now. Baratheon, Martell, Tully, Tyrell, Arryn, Bolton, Frey, all are basically gone now. I think Targaryen is the only house that has the same amount of members now as it did S1E1... Viserys, Dany, Aemon -> Dany, Jon, plus their unborn child which I'm like 99% sure is there they just don't know yet

Edit: well yes Jon was technically always a Targaryen but no one even suspected anything until very recently so it doesn't count laugh.gif


This post has been edited by Dexton: Apr 22 2019, 03:37 PM
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post Apr 22 2019, 03:45 PM
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I think the Night King will survive the battle...somehow. I'm honestly not sure of an outcome, but there's no way that those in Kings Landing won't completely miss the White walkers (wouldn't it just be the twist of all twists that they've somehow already got the Kings Landing army and they come face to face with a zombiefied Cersei and Euron *.* Won't happen as it'd be a bit too much to set all four remaining episodes in one location). I think Tyrion, Jaime, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Daenerys and Jon will surely survive this battle at least, though it's possible Arya could be unexpectedly killed. Given how Dany looked at Jon today after that news, I'm doubting the two of them making it to the end of the series alive, I mean have we REALLY seen how far Dany will go to get the throne even if she's not the rightful heir?...

Anyway, great episode. They're doing the character moments a lot better than last season and I'm glad to see it, given how next week will likely be one of the biggest battles ever seen on TV, it completely makes sense to have a calm before the storm. Sad as the likes of Grey Worm, Missandre, Jorah, Brienne, Tormund, The Hound all had great moments, but all the signs are pointing to a death for them (maybe not for the Hound, he hasn't faced his brother yet after all). sad.gif Jaime had a wonderful episode, his character growth has really been stellar as one you hate to one you really root for, again makes me wonder if it could be foreshadowing his death, but he feels a bit important to die right now...
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post Apr 22 2019, 04:24 PM
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QUOTE(Dexton @ Apr 22 2019, 03:35 PM) *
Actually forgot all about Yohn Royce laugh.gif I love how some of these huge powerful houses from the early series have just been whittled down to the point theres next to noone even left alive in the country. I'd love like a chart just of how many known members of each big family there were in the beginning compared to now. Baratheon, Martell, Tully, Tyrell, Arryn, Bolton, Frey, all are basically gone now. I think Targaryen is the only house that has the same amount of members now as it did S1E1... Viserys, Dany, Aemon -> Dany, Jon, plus their unborn child which I'm like 99% sure is there they just don't know yet

Edit: well yes Jon was technically always a Targaryen but no one even suspected anything until very recently so it doesn't count laugh.gif


Remarkably, I THINK Royce is one of only two (non-one-shot houses) noble houses to have the same lord as at the start of the series. Ones that are mentioned in TV only of course, the books have dozens of minor houses who've managed to remain untouched but are irrelevant to the story (e.g. Redwyne). The other would be House Reed. Yohn's a survivor.

QUOTE(Chez Wombat @ Apr 22 2019, 03:45 PM) *
I think the Night King will survive the battle...somehow. I'm honestly not sure of an outcome, but there's no way that those in Kings Landing won't completely miss the White walkers (wouldn't it just be the twist of all twists that they've somehow already got the Kings Landing army and they come face to face with a zombiefied Cersei and Euron *.* Won't happen as it'd be a bit too much to set all four remaining episodes in one location). I think Tyrion, Jaime, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Daenerys and Jon will surely survive this battle at least, though it's possible Arya could be unexpectedly killed. Given how Dany looked at Jon today after that news, I'm doubting the two of them making it to the end of the series alive, I mean have we REALLY seen how far Dany will go to get the throne even if she's not the rightful heir?...


I think this information, that Jon has a better claim to the throne than Dany is definitely going to be the first rip that will cause them to tear apart. She's been fighting for the throne her whole life and now she could be thwarted by someone with a better claim...
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Popchartfreak
post Apr 22 2019, 07:30 PM
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This should be the penultimate episode with circeii sorted first. Im going to be very unhappy next week as i love all the main characters and most of the supporting.

Bloodbath....
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