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> Game of Thrones • The Last of the Starks, S08E04 | SPOILERS INSIDE
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Jαsє
post May 5 2019, 06:04 PM
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Leaks all over the internet right now and I've just stumbled across one. UGH.

Avoid social media before the episode if you don't wanna be spoiled basically
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John-James
post May 5 2019, 06:06 PM
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I'm dying to know what the leaks are but I don't want to ruin it for myself. Whatever it is, the fans are NOT pleased...
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HausofTove
post May 5 2019, 06:20 PM
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Heard this is potentially the strongest episode of the series ohmy.gif

Avoiding spoilers ~
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Jαsє
post May 5 2019, 06:48 PM
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NO SPOILERS but somebody has leaked what happens in the last three episodes. Literally everything...and on the list ties in with one major thing which happens in tonight's episode, and it was posted a few days ago so it looks to be accurate. manson.gif

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SGrey
post May 6 2019, 06:24 AM
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THAT EPISODE OMGG I AM SHOOK. That ending I did not expect.
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365
post May 6 2019, 09:31 AM
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I... didn’t like it...


The women on this season. Reducing Lord Brienne into a one night stand victim. Missandei ending up as bait and being swiftly killed. Spending seasons building up Dany as a struggling and satisfying hero to screw her over with the ‘she goes mad’ in the final two seasons. Cersei going from a complex bitch into a panto villain...All for Jon Snore to probably come out on top.

Rhegal’s death...I...? The Night King couldn’t kill either dragon in the last episode but Euron managed 4 bullseyes on a moving boat?
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cantthinkofaname
post May 6 2019, 10:24 AM
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I don't think we need to spoiler tags things here now that the episode has aired, right?

This episode was massively disappointing and SO full of plot holes it's just unreal.

- First, it's obvious the writers have NEVER OWNED A DOG because Jon's goodbye to Ghost was just all kinds of lame but very telling of how the writers have been treating the direwolves this entire series.
- Euron managing to kill Drogon within seconds and having managed to stage YET another ambush with his massive sea fleet is beyond problematic. He was shooting huge spears from a mile away on a BOAT and he hit a DRAGON with all three of his shots?? and then when Dany is literally in direct line with him swooping towards him and his army the tens of spears they shot ALL fail to hit Drogon?? Sorry but I call bullshit in the highest degree. That whole scene (and everything that happened after that) was just super convenient for Euron and Cersei in entirety and left so many questions.
- How did they manage to steal Missandei and why would they not murder everyone else?
- How did they know who Missandei is and her importance to Dany?
- How the F did they manage to appear OUT OF NOWHERE as if they had just been hiding their hundreds of ships behind this one island like lol no dude that's not how ships work.
- How did pretty much everyone from Dany's team manage to swim to shore which looked to be pretty far away?
- Why would Cersei not just kill Tyrion too and that small group of Dany's that came for the negotiation? It would definitely not be unlike her to make a low blow like that and she had the upper hand for sure.

Ugh. I honestly hated that episode so much. And I haven't even touched on the whole "don't tell anyone about this Jon" and he just goes on to start the very predictable chain of everyone gossiping about this further. I also feel like this Dany being unhinged thing is happening at a far too rapid pace. There has been nothing suggesting anything other than her being a great and fair leader until the moment she set foot on Westeros where far too quickly she's losing her mind for no reason. The build up to mad queen Dany has been almost none and her wanting to murder thousands of innocents is SO out of character. I'm pissed that they're ruining her like this and it's so obvious.

Also I'm fuming that they killed Missandei like this. SHE WAS SO PURE! HOW COULD YOU???


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Esmerelda
post May 6 2019, 10:58 AM
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I loved the fist 7 seasons of this show but this episode was so bad it made me hate every character. I suspect the ending will be even worse. I kinda want the White Walkers to come back and finish the job.

Also, Varys getting all judgemental about Dany when his grand plan was to put Viserys on the throne? Sansa has been loathsome all season. Is Tyrion the biggest idiot in Westeros?
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Chez Wombat
post May 6 2019, 01:21 PM
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I guess I'm in a minority, but I enjoyed it. Except for Rhaegal's death by Euron, that was absolutely ridiculous, the fact the dead couldn't get close and yet he has perfect aim and kills something that so few people can actually kill in a matter of shots? Without them even seeing them? And then Dany actually pulling away and letting him blast her ships? Yeah, bullshit. Euron just feels like such a generic pantomime villain it's an insult to see him so central to the story when he just came in way too late.

But honestly I don't think is too far a reach how Dany's being presented and think it's good, let's not forget throughout the series she has been very impulsive as more power got to her head and made a lot of decisions against her advisors. She might mean well, but she is determined to get to one goal and she feels at near breaking point at this stage which we haven't seen before and highlighting the good character's insecurities, granted if it's just building up to Jon taking the throne, then it will be a little disappointing, but I've still got the hope the show won't go that predictable, he is clearly flawed himself and that should do him badly.

It wasn't perfect and was a bit clumsily structured but we can put that down to this ridiculously short season, but I've still got hopes next week's will be a moment, though there is rather a lot to go through - Arya's final target on her list, The Hound and the Mountain meeting, Daenaerys, Jon & Cersei's final battle, Jaime's settling the score, Yara's intervention, whatever the hell Bran's gonna do - one could imagine this being a bit of a clusterfuck
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SGrey
post May 6 2019, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE(365 @ May 6 2019, 10:31 AM) *
I... didn’t like it...


The women on this season. Reducing Lord Brienne into a one night stand victim. Missandei ending up as bait and being swiftly killed. Spending seasons building up Dany as a struggling and satisfying hero to screw her over with the ‘she goes mad’ in the final two seasons. Cersei going from a complex bitch into a panto villain...All for Jon Snore to probably come out on top.

Rhegal’s death...I...? The Night King couldn’t kill either dragon in the last episode but Euron managed 4 bullseyes on a moving boat?


Euron is an experienced naval captain with much more battle experience than The Night King though. His naval strength has been mentioned before so I don't think it is that much of a reach for him to have a good aim.

QUOTE(cantthinkofaname @ May 6 2019, 11:24 AM) *
I don't think we need to spoiler tags things here now that the episode has aired, right?

This episode was massively disappointing and SO full of plot holes it's just unreal.

1. Euron managing to kill Drogon within seconds and having managed to stage YET another ambush with his massive sea fleet is beyond problematic. He was shooting huge spears from a mile away on a BOAT and he hit a DRAGON with all three of his shots?? and then when Dany is literally in direct line with him swooping towards him and his army the tens of spears they shot ALL fail to hit Drogon?? Sorry but I call bullshit in the highest degree. That whole scene (and everything that happened after that) was just super convenient for Euron and Cersei in entirety and left so many questions.
2. How did they manage to steal Missandei and why would they not murder everyone else?
3. How did they know who Missandei is and her importance to Dany?
4. How the F did they manage to appear OUT OF NOWHERE as if they had just been hiding their hundreds of ships behind this one island like lol no dude that's not how ships work.
5. How did pretty much everyone from Dany's team manage to swim to shore which looked to be pretty far away?
6. Why would Cersei not just kill Tyrion too and that small group of Dany's that came for the negotiation? It would definitely not be unlike her to make a low blow like that and she had the upper hand for sure.

Also I'm fuming that they killed Missandei like this. SHE WAS SO PURE! HOW COULD YOU???


1. Daenerys did not see the ships coming until it was too late for Rhaegal. It was Night King 2.0.
2. She isn't exactly the best of warriors from what we've seen and her experience of swimming wouldn't have been that developed either if were thinking OTT so she was probably an easy target and less likely to put up a fight compared to say Grey Worm.
3. The Dragon Pit negotiation at the end of last season; it was clear she held her in high esteem as an advisor or she wouldn't be in attendance.
4. Probably the angle they were flying in to Dragonstone on and Cersei has been known to predict what Daenerys' plans were before as seen in S7. Given she based herself there at the start of S7 it isn't an over reach to know she'd do it again.
5. Washed ashore most likely after the destruction more likely than swimming deliberately which probably explains why Missandei didn't make it.
6. Cersei plays games with her opponents though; look at all she has destroyed shes not one for a quick slaughter.

As much as I enjoyed Missandei as an advisor to the Targaryen camp, I am glad there was a "shock" death as last weeks expectations of death were certainly underwhelming in terms of numbers. When they zoomed out from Cersei's balcony with the chains I genuinely thought she'd captured somebody else.
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Botchia
post May 6 2019, 01:56 PM
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The first half was great - so many moments post battle with Jaime and Brienne getting it on at last, the touching Sansa and Hound scene, Gendry and him getting rejected by Arya, Tormund being an icon. I'm not here for the multiple character assassinations that took part in the second half and some of the odd developments in the episode:

- Jon suddenly not giving a shit about Ghost?!
- Jaime doing Brienne and then f***ing off back to Cersei after everything they've been through together these last two episodes?!
- Euron suddenly being some military genius enough to take down a dragon which nobody else has done apart from the Night King?!
- All (or practically all) of Dany's side being able to swim back to shore with ease despite being shot at like that?!
- Varys switching allegiance to Jon without even giving it a second thought just because she got a little angry at losing a dragon and her best friend?!
- Dany becoming the mad queen within two episodes with very little build up?!

Not only that but it was so rushed. They could have easily added in another episode into this season but I guess they didn't have the budget for it. They certainly had the potential for more material...they went from burying the Winterfell dead to being at the gates ready to burn Kingslanding in just one episode!!

Next week Arya better slice Jaime for his betrayal and then take down Cersei.

Personally, I think Missandei's death delivered a good shock moment and was definitely needed after some of the criticisms of last week. It's clear pre-Battle of Winterfell that either her or Grey Worm's days were numbered.
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365
post May 6 2019, 02:29 PM
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Yeah I agree Ben, it all very suddenly very sloppy and rushed.

QUOTE(Saenerys @ May 6 2019, 02:29 PM) *
Euron is an experienced naval captain with much more battle experience than The Night King though. His naval strength has been mentioned before so I don't think it is that much of a reach for him to have a good aim.


The Night King killed Vissy without even breaking a single sweat. The crossbows are new technology, they’re huge, heavy and clunky. The idea that he could get 4 shots in on a fast moving dragon feels a little implausible.
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SGrey
post May 6 2019, 02:34 PM
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I suppose the Lannister’s were able to trial run them in the sacking of High Garden on the loot train. I think as well the first shot weakened Rhaegal so the others were an easier target.

I do agree that the speed didn’t make sense either as to how Dany moved so quickly from place to place.
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365
post May 6 2019, 02:36 PM
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Also, Ben - I’m pretty sure Jaime is bluffing. He’s off to kill Cersei I imagine.
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Jonjo
post May 6 2019, 03:11 PM
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This episode was exactly what I expected in terms of pace and storyline. Dany "going mad" like her father really isn't that shocking, surely? She's been VERY reliant and feeling invincible because of her Dragons with little to no first hand battle experience, so to see her army's and Dragons get taken down with so much ease is definitely gonna throw her off, mentally. So I don't think it's as implausible as a lot of you (and seemingly others) are making out. I actually feel like it's just a "moment" too, I'm probs wrong, but I feel like that's what they are wanting us to believe, so Danaerys won't be all that mad at all.

I'm pretty much with Sean on all of this. I don't think it's too out of the realms of possibility that Euron would've got one or two arrows in Raeghal at least. (Although I'm not here for all 4 hitting.. even if he was wounded..) and in the line of sight shot, and all of them aiming for Drogon and missing was a bit.. convenient.

Yeah Joe, I think Jaime is bluffing too. I def think his agenda is to just go and kill Cersei. He couldn't tell Brienne that coz he didn't want her to follow or to worry her, imo.

It was an OK episode overall. A bit too fast paced story wise. I loved the ending (as much as I hated to see it happen) just coz it was about time we had a shocking, pretty big side character death that will only motivate the story further.
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blacksquare
post May 6 2019, 03:24 PM
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I can't believe how disappointing this episode was, and how disappointingly sloppy the writing has been this season.

The groan I let out when Missandei died, and the even bigger groan when I realised her death will be a prop to transform Daenerys into a villain over the next two episodes.

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Envoirment
post May 6 2019, 03:51 PM
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I quite liked the episode. The first half was great - I loved seeing Brienne and Jaime finally getting it on! There were a few things that could've been done better - Jon saying goodbye to ghost properly and the Euron vs Dany scene could've been done better and shown in more detail rather than *dragon dies, ships die, everyone washes ashore except Missandai*. Personally I feel this season should've been a couple episodes longer as everything feels a little rushed.

In regards to Dany, I don't think it's that surprising how they're setting her up to be the mad king 2.0? She's always been impulsive and rash, especially as she's obtained more power. The only reason she's managed not to veer off is due to her advisors, although she's gone against their advise on multiple ocassions. With her learning of Jon's real identity, Jorah dying, another one of her dragons dying and now Missandei dying - all that must be affecting her quite a lot. She has no problem burning those who won't kneel to her or would get in her way too (Sam Tarly's dad & brother). So I feel that King's Landing is going to get burned to the ground unless Jon manages to calm Dany down.

The next episode is gearing up nicely for another long cinematic fight and I can't wait to see how that turns out.
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Severin
post May 6 2019, 03:58 PM
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I reference to what people have said so far...

Jon's goodbye to Ghost was a bit offhand. Should've done better there

Euron didn't fire 4 bulleye's on Rhaegal and there are several key factors here. He knows where they are coming from and where they are going. Even I knew they were headed to Dragonstone. He hides his fleet of 10 ships between 2 islands giving him the ambush position. Everyone of those 10 ships has a scorpion weapon at the front and they are aiming a Rhaegal from a 45-60 degree angle giving a large point of impact on a slow moving target whose trajectory is clear. 1 bolt hits him square in the chest, and a 2nd grazes his wing. A 3rd hits him in the neck which actually saves Drogon from being hit. A forth misses completely. It's an obvious assumption that only the front four ships in the fleet have eyes on target due to the rocks they are hiding behind and we see Euron himself reload in the next shot. In the barrage that follows it is rather fortunate but Drogon pulls up in a sharp turn vacating the exact space every ship has just fired at. She pulled away because it was the only way to save her & Drogon

Missandei fled to the skiff. A small boat that is easily intercepted, but I agree it's convenient that she is the only named character captured.

Varys switching sides has been on the cards since day one and hinted at before - remember his promise to 'look her in the eye' if he thought she was wrong.

Dany's descent into cruelty has equally been telegraphed from the first series - her execution by fire of the witch who tricked her, her lack of compassion for her brother (a man she originally expected to marry), when it became clear Drogo and herself had the real power. She has burned alive most of her main enemies and taken almost every victory through conquest and destruction - 'I will take what is mine with fire & blood'. It has only been her advisors who have repeatedly held her in check. She now has doubts over Varys, serious concerns about Tyrion for some time. Jon is not there and she doubts him too and her most trusted of all - Jorah - is gone. Even he betrayed her in the past. Her character arc is one of trying to be a good person but countered by what she believes is her right and destiny. She's been the mirror of Stannis for years. Both believe(d) in their destiny over everything else. Dany has been a flawed and poor leader from the beginning. Her power resides in her dragons and fear, even if her good intentions garner support and loyalty it's only from a close inner circle.

Jaime switching again wasn't unexpected but could still go either way.


Cersei is more like Tywin than any other Lannister - she has referenced all that matters is the family name several times since her kids started dying and Tyrion is a Lannister after all, even if she does hate him


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365
post May 6 2019, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE(Jonjo @ May 6 2019, 04:11 PM) *
This episode was exactly what I expected in terms of pace and storyline. Dany "going mad" like her father really isn't that shocking, surely? She's been VERY reliant and feeling invincible because of her Dragons with little to no first hand battle experience, so to see her army's and Dragons get taken down with so much ease is definitely gonna throw her off, mentally. So I don't think it's as implausible as a lot of you (and seemingly others) are making out. I actually feel like it's just a "moment" too, I'm probs wrong, but I feel like that's what they are wanting us to believe, so Danaerys won't be all that mad at all.


I think it’s the opposite than for most of us. It’s more because it’s too predictable than it is shocking. It’s a disappointingly tropey way for her to end after following her story so long. For me it would have been a more interesting story for her to fall and stumble but about how she avoids ending up like her dad. It’s become very obvious that she’ll torch King’s Landing or try and Jon will kill her. And it’s more about the way it’s happened rather than the fact it happened. It feels rushed and not all too convincing.

I know we all love this show which is why we’re here. But it’s hard to ignore that it’s become rather sloppy this season (and some of the last) if you compare it to how intricate it used to be.
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Mart!n
post May 6 2019, 04:00 PM
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That ending ohmy.gif Dany is really pissed, she is going to get her revenge surely, unless Jamie gets there first.

The first half of the episode I did find it a bit slow and that first spear coming out from nowhere ohmy.gif and I have to agree, this season seems a bit rushed as they are clamping down on the episodes, they could have extended them to 2 hours per episode and panned them out more. I'm looking forward to the last three episodes.
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