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> Spice Girls & Award Ceremonies, Did the girls deserve more?
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Spice Girls Net
post Sep 21 2019, 05:10 PM
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I was watching some old BRIT Awards videos from 1996-1998 and it got me thinking about how ceremonies are now in comparison.



Many of the artists in today's charts that have what we'd call 'a big year' usually sweep the board with 4-6 nominations for album, single, video, group/best solo artist etc whether it's
the year of Adele, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, there's always an artist that leads with the most nominations and wins.

I was thinking about how powerful the SG were in the UK and around the world during 1997 and 1998.

Despite being the UK's biggest group in the world and having the world's most successful album of 1997, as well as being the most successful UK chart act of that year it still shocks me
that the SG were never nominated for more awards at the 1998 ceremony (not even in the 'Best British Group' category)

In 1998, again, they were the biggest selling pop act in the UK and around the world, as well as having success on the singles chart, and yet after a successful 1998
the group did not receive a SINGLE nomination at the BRITs 1999 ceremony?

What do you guys think about this? I know the music industry was very different 20 years ago but when you actually think about it it's kinda crazy that they didn't receive more awards.

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Piers
post Sep 21 2019, 05:50 PM
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Yeah. They probably should have won more...though the truly glaring omission to me is the 1998 Grammys. After being the biggest thing in music in 1997, they were shut out entirely. Not a single nomination.

Looking back on that ceremony is a fairly odd thing now. The nominations are full of Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, Fleetwood Mac and the like. I'm not diminishing those acts. But they weren't really indicative of the music scene in 1998.

The girls honestly should have *at least* been locks for noms in Best Short Music Video (most of the noms are obscurities) and Best Pop Performance by a Group. Wannabe, Say You'll Be There, and 2 Become 1 should have been strong contenders for that. Instead, the Rolling Stones made the cut with Anybody Seen My Baby? Not knocking the Stones (I'm a fan, and I've seen them in concert)...but it's a song that didn't make the main Billboard chart, and I doubt much of anyone would consider it among their best material.

So, what happened? In the US, I always thought there was a shift in attitude toward them when the Spice World movie trailers showed up. I kinda defend that movie now...for being so proudly weird, campy and culty. But when the trailers came out, I think the girls came off as...um..."less intelligent than they really are", shall we say. The movie ended up helping them with album sales, of course...but I don't think it helped them in terms of US music credibility.

But. Anyway. I guess the girls got the last laugh...sorta. Their music proved to have a longevity that most of the new acts that won that year don't.


This post has been edited by Piers: Sep 21 2019, 05:50 PM
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sammy01
post Sep 21 2019, 06:05 PM
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They just weren't seen as credible. I'd say the ROTSG tour, Olmpics and the Spiceworld 2019 tour have done wonders for their credibility as with most acts that put on great live shows.
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JaneJ
post Sep 21 2019, 06:40 PM
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Make the new album and they'll get some more. Imagine all four or five on the stage of the big award ceremonies once more 20+ years later. Just the thought of it already gives me chills.
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spiceboy
post Sep 21 2019, 06:48 PM
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The Brit Awards snubbed them quite a few times to be fair.
- Them not winning best newcomer in 1997 was quite frankly ridiculous, and they didn't win any awards given by the BRIT panel only ones voted by the public.
- They should have had nominations for best single and best group easily in 1998 but they only got a nomination for best music video (spice up your life) and then they were given a made up award because they wanted them to perform again. After the hype they created the previous year I thought it was a huge snub...
- They couldn't be nominated in 1999 because they didn't have an album out so they didn't qualify, and the Live Act one wasn't around yet.
- I thought they were snubbed in 2007/8 as well not getting a nomination for Best Live Act after the huge success for ROTSG

On the other hand I'm amazed they were given Lifetime achievement (although I believe it was renamed Outstanding Achievement that year???)

The Grammy's said they were not credible enough as they were too manufactured, yet they gave Britney and Christina best newcomer nominations just a few years later... rolleyes.gif
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spiceboy
post Sep 21 2019, 06:48 PM
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The Brit Awards snubbed them quite a few times to be fair.
- Them not winning best newcomer in 1997 was quite frankly ridiculous, and they didn't win any awards given by the BRIT panel only ones voted by the public.
- They should have had nominations for best single and best group easily in 1998 but they only got a nomination for best music video (spice up your life) and then they were given a made up award because they wanted them to perform again. After the hype they created the previous year I thought it was a huge snub...
- They couldn't be nominated in 1999 because they didn't have an album out so they didn't qualify, and the Live Act one wasn't around yet.
- I thought they were snubbed in 2007/8 as well not getting a nomination for Best Live Act after the huge success for ROTSG

On the other hand I'm amazed they were given Lifetime achievement (although I believe it was renamed Outstanding Achievement that year???)

The Grammy's said they were not credible enough as they were too manufactured, yet they gave Britney and Christina best newcomer nominations just a few years later... rolleyes.gif
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Mr.X
post Sep 22 2019, 01:05 AM
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Yeah their history with the Brits is slightly complicated. Them being SNUBBED for nominations in 1998 and given a consolation prize was quite in bad taste, I feel. They deserved Best Single, Best Group and at least a nomination for Best Album for Spiceworld.

They also deserved to be nominated in 1999. They had huge success throughout 1998 and with Goodbye, and they had a HUGE tour. They totally deserved a couple of nominations at least.

The special award in 2000 was odd indeed, but I liked their performance and what it meant to them so I dont mind it tbh. They TOTALLY deserved a win for Best Live for the Return tour though!!

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Mr.X
post Sep 22 2019, 01:28 AM
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The Grammy snub was just rude. They were told they were not credible enough - that must have hurt. And totally undeserved.
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SouthernStar88
post Sep 22 2019, 06:49 PM
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I hope for a new BRIT Award next year for the tour...they could become the only act to win it in four different decades:
1997-98, 2000, 2010 and (I hope) 2020.
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SouthernStar88
post Sep 22 2019, 06:50 PM
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I also hope for a Grammy Award for a new album...Ok! I dreamed enough for today tongue.gif

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spiceboy
post Sep 23 2019, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE(SouthernStar88 @ Sep 22 2019, 07:49 PM) *
I hope for a new BRIT Award next year for the tour...they could become the only act to win it in four different decades:
1997-98, 2000, 2010 and (I hope) 2020.


I don't think they have done the Live Act Brit for a few years. Would be fab if they brought it back. If Spice Girls were snubbed for it then that would be a HUGE snub as it has been the biggest tour by far in the UK this year.
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Feel_The_Fever
post Sep 23 2019, 02:30 AM
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The Brits for years were anti pop and still are and they have snubbed so many great artists,/bands over the years. The spice girls are an example of it and ignoring the fact they were the biggest group in the world at that time says it all.
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Jay❄
post Sep 23 2019, 08:25 AM
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They certainly deserved more! The Brits really were pretty shady to them, particularly in 1999... at the very least Viva Forever and Goodbye deserved single/video nominations. Never being nominated for best group was ridiculous.
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Mr.X
post Sep 23 2019, 09:28 AM
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QUOTE(Feel_The_Fever @ Sep 23 2019, 03:30 AM) *
The Brits for years were anti pop and still are and they have snubbed so many great artists,/bands over the years. The spice girls are an example of it and ignoring the fact they were the biggest group in the world at that time says it all.


The problem is that the Brits DID recognise how successful they were, as they recognised the group BOTH in 1998 and 2000 with special awards related to the levels of success the group had. But they never recognised them for how good they were.

The fact they never even received nominations for best group or best album in 1998 or 1999 speaks volums about how the Brits saw them - essential for the industry but not good enough for artistic recognition.
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Spice Girls Net
post Sep 23 2019, 11:11 AM
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One Direction received 4 Best British Group nominations and won ‘Global Success’ Awards too. So the BRITs have changed slightly but take into account they’re a male group and it was 15 years after the SG first success
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Spice Girls Net
post Aug 30 2020, 02:48 PM
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Just bumping this thread again.

It's the 2020 MTV VMA awards tonight.

Every year there is always an artist who receives a whole host of nominations. For example Gaga has received 9 noms for 'Rain on Me' and yet in 1997 the Spice Girls were snubbed from these following categories -

'Video of the Year', 'Best Group Video', 'Best New Artist in a Video' and 'Breakthrough Video'.

Strangely they were nominated for 'Best Dance Video' for Wannabe and won and they also received a 'Viewer's Choice' nomination for SYBT.

If this Spice Girls era was in 2020 would it be any different? Thoughts?

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Mr.X
post Aug 30 2020, 05:55 PM
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It was odd how they only got nominated for the VMAs in 1997, not 1998 either, when they had tremendous success in the States that would have warranted it.

The only thing I can think of was them firing Simon was when the negative press and the industry kind of turning on them, which meant their nominated did dry up in 1998, alongside their focus on the band.

There is no reason why they wouldnt have been nominated for the Grammys or the Brits in 1998, nor was there any reason why they didnt get nominations for the VMAs either, alongside many other awards.

They could have totally gotten another Mercury Prize nomination in 1998 for Spiceworld like they did in 1997 for Spice, as well as Ivor Novello Awards.

To me, it seems like the industry and the press turned on them from the release of their second album, which was at the hight of Spicemania, firing Simon and being over exposed and with too much merchanside and endorsements....

They never quite recovered from that period, as high as it was!
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Piers
post Aug 30 2020, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Aug 30 2020, 12:55 PM) *
The only thing I can think of was them firing Simon was when the negative press and the industry kind of turning on them, which meant their nominated did dry up in 1998, alongside their focus on the band.

There is no reason why they wouldnt have been nominated for the Grammys or the Brits in 1998, nor was there any reason why they didnt get nominations for the VMAs either, alongside many other awards.


^ I wondered this too...if the firing of Simon somehow torpedoed their media support in the US. But. At the same time, Spice Up Your Life was already being denied any airplay/videoplay...even before Simon was fired. And the minimal nominations at the 1997 VMAs also happened under Simon's watch. So. Beats me what was really going on behind the scenes.

I was just looking through the wins and nominations for the 1997 VMAs. It's not that the show got everything wrong. Stuff like Jamiroquai's Virtual Insanity and Missy's The Rain remain stunning, innovative videos. But there are definitely some head-scratchers. The Spices got shut out of Best Group Video...but stuff like The Wallflowers' humdrum One Headlight video got in. Wannabe and Say You'll Be There had clearly more memorable visuals...visuals that practically define 1997. Viewer's Choice is also an odd one. Did people vote for that? Cause if they did...I'm not sure how The Prodigy would manage to swipe it from the Spices (much less Jewel and Puff Daddy in the same category).

But I also think the core audience MTV was targeting was a bit different back at that moment. I'm not taking anything away from the likes of Meredith Brooks and The Chemical Brothers, but they didn't define 1997 in the way the Spice Girls and Hanson did (Hanson managed one nom, no wins). I think it took another two years (with Britney, NSYNC, Backstreet, etc.) for the VMAs to truly become ruled by pop again.
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Piers
post Aug 31 2020, 12:46 AM
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As a side note, I know this perspective will be different depending on the country where you grew up...but I'd make the argument the Spices weren't *that* overexposed in the US. Oh, they were huge. And Wannabe, Say You'll Be There, and 2 Become 1 were big hits. There was merchandise too. But they were never of the same level of inescapable here as Britney/Backstreet/NSYNC. The Spices performed on a few of the major shows in spring '97...but I wouldn't say they overdid it. In terms of their commercials, the ads for Impulse Spice, Walkers, and Channel 5 (of course) never made air here. If the Polaroid ads ever aired, I never saw them. Really, the only ad I ever saw was the Pepsi one...and even at that, I don't *think* the US had the competition to win a copy of Step to Me/tickets to Istanbul (...but someone in here feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

Beyond that, we never got a release of Who Do You Think You Are/Mama. 1997 brought four single releases here. That's definitely a busy year...but it's not unheard of. The only thing that was truly out of the norm was two album releases in 1997. But really, the girls didn't make a single US appearance to promote Spiceworld before the album release. It kinda quietly arrived (with performances in the months following...mostly early '98).

Really, their story in the US is nine months of radio play/video support...followed by what seemed like a radio/MTV/VH1 blacklist and the minimal in awards attention. The support wasn't even there in early 1998 when they managed to have TWO albums in the top ten. The music industry was actively ignoring their success. I'm not convinced it was overexposure that was their problem. Maybe some in the business didn't like the competition for their homegrown acts?
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Mr.X
post Aug 31 2020, 12:44 PM
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QUOTE(Piers @ Aug 31 2020, 01:46 AM) *
As a side note, I know this perspective will be different depending on the country where you grew up...but I'd make the argument the Spices weren't *that* overexposed in the US. Oh, they were huge. And Wannabe, Say You'll Be There, and 2 Become 1 were big hits. There was merchandise too. But they were never of the same level of inescapable here as Britney/Backstreet/NSYNC. The Spices performed on a few of the major shows in spring '97...but I wouldn't say they overdid it. In terms of their commercials, the ads for Impulse Spice, Walkers, and Channel 5 (of course) never made air here. If the Polaroid ads ever aired, I never saw them. Really, the only ad I ever saw was the Pepsi one...and even at that, I don't *think* the US had the competition to win a copy of Step to Me/tickets to Istanbul (...but someone in here feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

Beyond that, we never got a release of Who Do You Think You Are/Mama. 1997 brought four single releases here. That's definitely a busy year...but it's not unheard of. The only thing that was truly out of the norm was two album releases in 1997. But really, the girls didn't make a single US appearance to promote Spiceworld before the album release. It kinda quietly arrived (with performances in the months following...mostly early '98).

Really, their story in the US is nine months of radio play/video support...followed by what seemed like a radio/MTV/VH1 blacklist and the minimal in awards attention. The support wasn't even there in early 1998 when they managed to have TWO albums in the top ten. The music industry was actively ignoring their success. I'm not convinced it was overexposure that was their problem. Maybe some in the business didn't like the competition for their homegrown acts?


Ah yes, the old nationalism playing a part in both the US and the British industries... Knowing both countries well, it absolutely does absolutely make sense to be honest.

Beyond that, I do think that Simon leaving did play a part in it. Not only was he the one with the most direct connections and deals made with the press and industry, but a group of women taking charge in their own career? At the time, the old boys club in the industry probably really didn't like that so probably they did play down their success.
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