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> What did 'new wave' actually mean?
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Steve201
post Jan 19 2020, 10:43 AM
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What was it and what was pure punk?

New wave seemed to just be any Band post 1977!
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Suedehead2
post Jan 19 2020, 11:55 AM
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In part I'd say it encompassed bands who started out as part of the punk movement but whose style developed. The Stranglers and the Boomtown Rats would both be examples of that. It also included bands who emerged after the main punk era but whose output was closer to punk than it was to the mainstream pop of the earlier part of the decade.
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Bjork
post Jan 19 2020, 12:10 PM
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oh didn't know that
maybe I got it always wrong cos for me new wave meant synths and bands like Blondie for instance, not punk
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Suedehead2
post Jan 19 2020, 12:56 PM
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Blondie started out being identified as American punk but, by the time they achieved any success, were definitely more New Wave. We then moved on to bands such as Ultravox, Visage, Spandau Ballet (particularly the early years) and Duran Duran for the New Romantics era.
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Social Hisstance
post Jan 19 2020, 01:11 PM
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In 1980 and 1981 a lot of the new wave songs were clearly still very punk influenced





Although other groups such as Blondie had already started to introduce disco and synth influences.

By 1982 the punk influence in new wave seems to have receded a bit and it turned more into being more dance floor orientated like disco and also synth influenced.







Although there was still artists like Altered Images providing the more alternative rock sounding new wave. Artists such as Kirsty McColl, Tears for Fears and The Smiths would also follow this route by the mid 80s.



It was still big in 1983, here's one of the most famous ones, again not very punk-y (but more alternative than the and taking on influence from synthpop and folk in this case:



There is a big variety of songs in what wikipedia defines as new wave. perhaps some of the more punky ones like those 1980 and 1981 examples I gave should be defined as post-punk rather than new wave.

New wave was mostly gone from the charts by 1985, with only a few of the alternative rock based groups like The Smiths and Tears for Fears still charting. Alternative rock would start to become very big by the end of the 80s of course.


This post has been edited by januarysalesnake: Jan 19 2020, 01:28 PM
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Toilet Rollo
post Jan 19 2020, 01:22 PM
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Around 1975-76,there were a lot of disco,soul,soft rock and novelty songs in the chart. The punk bands were the first to emerge followed by other new young groups who were playing a slightly more melodic type of music and they were all branded as new wave. They were later subdivided into smaller types of genre.
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Steve201
post Jan 19 2020, 01:23 PM
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I always associate bands like Human League as New Romantics due to the make up and clear pop orientated influences where being successful and being no1 were what they wanted to achieve without feeling embarresed by it but in reality new wave bands like Boomtown Rats and The Stranglers were a bit like blairites in the Labour Party they moved to the centre to gain mainstream success but tried to pretend they weren't?
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Social Hisstance
post Jan 19 2020, 01:35 PM
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Ok maybe my above post was more to do with New Romantics than new wave but wikipedia and many other people still define these early 80s artists as new wave so I am confused.

Anyway as to the difference between pure punk and late 70s new wave, new wave tends to be less political and 'angry' lyrically and more melodic as King Rollo said.


This post has been edited by januarysalesnake: Jan 19 2020, 01:36 PM
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Severin
post Jan 19 2020, 06:35 PM
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Originally in the UK press New Wave was a number of Punk influenced bands that came through after the first Punk bands had become big/dissipated. Think of bands like The Jags, The Vapors, The Pretenders, The Police, Altered Images - Punk influenced in its simple chord structures but more polished in their sound and very distinct from both Punk and Post-Punk acts like Wire, Joy Division, Magazine, PiL etc.

In the USA New Wave was the Synth bands like Human League, Depeche Mode, Soft Cell, Eurythmics etc They never really used the term New Romantics but given the prevalence of US centric media the term New Wave has come to be associated more with synth driven pop music in the UK public's mind as time has gone on.


As to what is pure Punk these are the main contenders -

Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Damned, 999, The Adverts, The Ruts, .

Others of note - Siouxsie & The Banshees (signed so late that they were arguably Post-Punk by the time of their first album), Buzzcocks (1st EP for sure but quickly moved to a more polished sound although still always included), The Stranglers (a bunch of 'old perverts' who understood Punk and melded it to their sound and usually included), The Undertones (like Buzzcocks their sound was more polished by the time any records came out but they are included), The Jam (quickly moved away from Punk into a more New Wave style but always included)

In short any of that first wave of UK bands from 1975-1977 are considered


From across the pond Ramones were a huge influence on the UK Punk scene, Dead Boys, The Heartbreakers and Richard Hell are all important. Blondie were initially but again by record releases were shifting style to New Wave.


After the UKs first wave 'true' Punk became bands like CRASS, Conflict, Anti-Nowhere League, GBH, Exploited in the UK and in the USA bands like Dead Kennedy's, Minor Threat, Black Flag and Adolescents took up the mantle.


This post has been edited by Severin: Jan 19 2020, 06:52 PM
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Bjork
post Jan 19 2020, 09:52 PM
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^thnks, finally I understand
I used to live in the US so yes for me New Wave was just any UK synth-pop band from the early 80s like Eurythmics
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Social Hisstance
post Jan 19 2020, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE(Bjork @ Jan 19 2020, 09:52 PM) *
^thnks, finally I understand
I used to live in the US so yes for me New Wave was just any UK synth-pop band from the early 80s like Eurythmics


Well I knew Eurythmics/Human League/Visage weren't new wave and thanks for clarifying Altered Images are definitely new wave Severin, but I thought those groups I mentioned in my big post on this thread like Blue Zoo and Men Without Hats were new wave because Wikipedia said they were but clearly not.

So true new wave left the charts after about 1980 then? Although Transvision Vamp - I Want Your Love in 1988 might be new wave!


This post has been edited by januarysalesnake: Jan 19 2020, 11:01 PM
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Severin
post Jan 19 2020, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE(januarysalesnake @ Jan 19 2020, 10:56 PM) *
Well I knew Eurythmics/Human League/Visage weren't new wave and thanks for clarifying Altered Images are definitely new wave Severin, but I thought those groups I mentioned in my big post on this thread like Blue Zoo and Men Without Hats were new wave because Wikipedia said they were but clearly not.

So true new wave left the charts after about 1980 then? Although Transvision Vamp - I Want Your Love in 1988 might be new wave!



It depends who you ask really. Men Without Hats were Canadian so probably fit more with a North America definition of New Wave. At the time here in the Uk we didn't view them as 'our' type of New Wave but they weren't New Romantic either, just Synth Pop.

Blue Zoo (my ex went out with the drummer btw) would be considered probably New Wave by Americans but New Romantic by the Uk fans. Song structures were too complex and not based around a few basic chords to be what we usually termed New Wave over here.

And if you really want to go down the rabbit hole New Romanticism is more of a style and fashion sense that encompasses differing styles of music - early Duran Duran, Midge Ure era Ultravox, early Spandau Ballet, Visage, Human League and even late period Adam & The Ants (who began as Punk and then became Post-Punk but stylistically fitted New Romanticism) and Soft Cell (who were too seedy to be 'romantics' really)

As for Transvision Vamp, musically they certainly fit with a New Wave (UK) style and structure but by that point nobody was referring to New Wave as a current sound. It was too far back to still be relevant. They didn't quite fit with the so-called C86 sound (The Primitives did though) but I Want Your Love is arguably an early example of Punk-Pop before that really became a thing.

But I'd say 1980/81 are probably the point were UK New Wave diversified into other things. Bands like Teardrop Explodes, Psycehedelic Furs and Echo & The Bunnymen took New Wave and added Psychedelia or Post-Punk elements to make new sounds.
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Steve201
post Jan 20 2020, 10:39 PM
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What did Human League start out as then before dawning the make up?
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Severin
post Jan 20 2020, 11:17 PM
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jan 20 2020, 10:39 PM) *
What did Human League start out as then before dawning the make up?

They started as experimental electronic music more akin to Throbbing Gristle, Bowie's Berlin era instrumentals and Kraftwerk's more leftfield works. The record company initially forced them into a more conventional style that came out under pseudonyms and fared poorly. Eventually they moved in that direction under their own steam, but tensions meant half the band left to form Heaven 17. After that Phil got the girls in and wrote pop gems


The early version of Being Boiled is typical of their first releases. Not the one from the Holiday 80 single but the 1978 recording.

Other than that there's a Peel Session on youtube that is worth hearing



This post has been edited by Severin: Jan 20 2020, 11:24 PM
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Fred Conner
post Jan 31 2020, 02:15 PM
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great
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PeteFromLeeds
post Jan 31 2020, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE(Fred Conner @ Jan 31 2020, 02:15 PM) *
great

I think we have a contender for Contribution of the Year here
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Social Hisstance
post Jan 31 2020, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE(PeteFromLeeds @ Jan 31 2020, 03:54 PM) *
I think we have a contender for Contribution of the Year here


Indeed. But seriously new wave and the succeeding new romantic music at the end of the 70s/ start of the 80s were great trends and many of the songs sound less dated than much of the stuff in the chart in the late 80s.
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Steve201
post Feb 2 2020, 11:25 AM
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Yeh by about 1986 they had lost their experimental nature but I think apart from house music there was nowhere left to go to and so we just got repeats in the form of different groups that fitted into one of the genres I guess.
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Popchartfreak
post Feb 2 2020, 06:27 PM
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I think it was attitude as much as anything. Anything squarely aimed at the pop market was new wave, anything with a surley rebellious unpolished sound was punk. So x ray spex were punk even though they broke through in 1978. The boomtown rats first singles were punk, but shes so modern onwards were new wave. Id argue the jam were punk right up to eton rifles, and new wave from going underground. I think siouxsie was always punk, but morphed into goth new wavearound the time of christine in 1980. Sham 69 were cartoon punk that were destroyed by an aggressive fanbase. Two tone then came along and was sort of infused with punk diy ethos, but in a more inclusive ska fashion. Punk totally influenced all pop music, even though it was never that big as such. The punk era was actually dominated by disco commercially till the backlash started....
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Crazy Chris
post Feb 2 2020, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 19 2020, 11:55 AM) *
In part I'd say it encompassed bands who started out as part of the punk movement but whose style developed. The Stranglers and the Boomtown Rats would both be examples of that. It also included bands who emerged after the main punk era but whose output was closer to punk than it was to the mainstream pop of the earlier part of the decade.



I've often see The Stranglers called punk but they weren't really.
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