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> Doctor Who ē The Timeless Children, S12E10 | SPOILERS inside
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Klaus
post Feb 29 2020, 11:22 AM
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IT'S FINALE TIME. and enjoy it because this is the last episode until Christmas/New Year and then until f*** KNOWS, maybe Autumn 2021 at the earliest sad.gif

So many questions, but how many will be answered? Will Jack return? Will Ruth return? Who IS Ruth? Who is the timeless child? Who are the timeless CHILDREN? Who is Brendan? Why did he come back to life? Why did his dad not age? Why was he abandoned? What revelations does the Master hold? Is the Master even the Master as we know him? What did the Time Lords do? Do the Cybemen play a role in this? Will we get to return to Gallifrey? Will Gallifrey be restored again? Will any of the companions depart?

and, importantly, will the events change the face of canon forever?

one things for sure, it'll be more eventful than The Battle of Ranky Avocados

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Klaus
post Feb 29 2020, 11:24 AM
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This is the most hyped I've been for a Doctor Who episode since possibly the 50th Anniversary!! I'm incredibly nervous about the impact it will have on the whole nature of the series but hopefully it will at least address, for better or worse, the Ruth mystery.

Also, fab pic from the Radio Times. Don't care about the size as it's glorious

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Calum
post Feb 29 2020, 12:21 PM
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Agreed about that pic, stunning wub.gif

Iím really hoping that the Ruth mystery is at least partially explained, but my excitement for this episode is unreal. Time Lords, Gallifrey, Cybermen, the Master all in one *.*
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Chez Wombat
post Feb 29 2020, 12:30 PM
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I'm very excited yet very nervous as this show does have a history of disappointing final episodes, still there's got to be something impactful in there I'm sure! I too really hope Ruth is addressed otherwise that episode would've been a little bit pointless in this series.
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Dexton
post Feb 29 2020, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Feb 29 2020, 07:22 PM) *
and, importantly, will the events change the face of canon forever?


pffft doctor who canon is wibbly wobbly

but maybe it will change the face of boe forever hue
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Slick
post Feb 29 2020, 05:02 PM
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I've genuinely enjoyed several of this season's episodes. There's been some proper episodes for proper fans. I hope the final episode is a fitting end!
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Klaus
post Mar 1 2020, 08:14 PM
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ok a LOT to process

i kind of accept it more than I expected? Possibly because Iíd seen the rumours before that maybe helped the idea settle a bit. Itís nice that it feeds back into what was seen as a continuity error in the 1970s story The Brain of Morbius. I donít really understand why Ruthís TARDIS was a police box though - it wonít be getting explained, so the use now feels like a useful shock device for that reveal.

My heart was racing throughout though, for better or worse it was a truly rollercoaster episode and an epic finale! It does make me laugh that after Ruthís reveal, it was this weird thing of everyone suspecting every guest character as being the Doctor, including some suspicions of Graham of all people I saw!!

But yeah, need to get my head round it a bit. Feels weird that we know even LESS of who the Doctor is and where she came from. Although I guess it helps to explain her more special status amongst the Time Lords and that sheís never adapted to that kind of life and never really willingly returned to Gallifrey once she left!

Still, it makes me question why it was so shocking to the Master, shocking enough that he would destroy the planet. I can get his anger at the Doctor ultimately being more special than him but... to destroy his home hmmm
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ON STRIKE
post Mar 1 2020, 08:28 PM
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What was the continuity error?

From the sounds of it, Ruth's tardis was a police box because the Doctor in her future was spent back to the past as a child - and from thrtr, she eventually became Ruth.

Looks like all three companions have left though at the same time! They will live in the new Slater house with the two temaining humans.

Does that mean that humanity and the time lords are both extinct in the future thanks to the master? The master beat the Doctor, then. It makes no sense that the master could destory an entire planet of Time Lords as a single Time Lord though...
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JosephStyles
post Mar 1 2020, 08:28 PM
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I'm still processing

but I loved it

A couple of blips aside, this series has been SO MUCH BETTER
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Calum
post Mar 1 2020, 08:33 PM
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Well... SO MUCH TO PROCESS

Overall I'm very satisfied with that - it had everything, and it pulled most of it off VERY well. The idea of Cybermen as Time Lords, while it appeared quite comical, was brilliant and really could have been amazing given more time to flourish. The thought of them being able to harness the power of regeneration and never die, being an army constantly becoming more powerful with all of that as well as the Cyberium strategising for them is one of the best ideas in a long time.

It's giving me life how much this revelation is going to piss off fans that think the show's canon cannot be altered in any way though just because 'it all started with Hartnell!!1!!!1'. I think this is such a monumental change, and for the better, that Chibnall's brought about. It does, of course, raise a lot of questions about the Doctor's true origins, but at the end of the day it allows the show to continue for however long without being restricted to 'oh how are we going to give her another regeneration cycle now?' - but at the same time throws some things up in the air too, namely why she would have needed the Time Lords to grant her a new regeneration cycle in The Time of the Doctor (a plot hole that's likely never going to be explained).

I'm still a bit unsure.gif re Brendan though - is he supposed to be the Doctor / Timeless Child? That whole plot still just seems very vague, and the placement in Ascension of the Cybermen now seems even stranger. I don't think any casual viewer is going to be able to come to the conclusion Chibnall was aiming for with that - but hopefully that's something that crops up again in series 13 for the sake of clarity (doubt it will though).

Also, it feels like we're never going to see Ruth again? As soon as she disappeared, it felt like okay she's served her purpose now (even though not in a satisfying way, given how incredible she was in Fugitive of the Judoon), and that's it. I really hope that there's a lot of attention given in series 13 to exploring a lot of what's been thrown at us here. Only then will it feel like this change can really pay off.

That has to be up there with the best of finales in a long time though. It was a proper event, and it changed the show forever and added in endless possibilities for the Doctor's character / life in general. I can kinda understand why it angered the Master so much too considering he grew up with the Doctor (only now to find out that who he thought she was was built on lies), he's always been her greatest frenemy (she is the Timeless Child and that she is the source of the Time Lords' ability to regenerate). For her to have that much power over his continued existence, and the Time Lords' deceit, yeah simply destroying Gallifrey seems tame lmao.

Final thought (of 20,000 more that will come to mind): I lowkey wish Ethan was the Doctor's sole companion as opposed to the ones we're stuck with.
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Klaus
post Mar 1 2020, 08:36 PM
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Am I being dumb or who actually was Brendan? Was it meant to be the Timeless Child story but just told via a different means? And then the Time Lords are erasing his memory which is when he becomes William Hartnell?

QUOTE(Limp Brexit @ Mar 1 2020, 08:28 PM) *
What was the continuity error?

From the sounds of it, Ruth's tardis was a police box because the Doctor in her future was spent back to the past as a child - and from thrtr, she eventually became Ruth.

Looks like all three companions have left though at the same time! They will live in the new Slater house with the two temaining humans.

Basically in the 1970s story, the plot involved the 4th Doctorís previous incarnations being shown on a screen so obviously the first three we know and love but then it showed other random men, basically saying there was more incarnations

I donít think the child was the Doctor being sent back in time unless I missed something - feels a bit of a parodoxal loop if so!

Re the companions - theyíre confirmed to return in the special which is also 99% likely to also feature Captain Jack.
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ON STRIKE
post Mar 1 2020, 08:37 PM
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But Brendan thought he was an Irishman, so had no memories? And why did he age like a normal human? Matt Smith lasted 700 years.

Agreed with Calum though. How are they going to explain the Doctor needing a new regeneration cycle from the Time Lords? Rhe Time Lords even acknowledged this when they faced off v Scottish Doctor on Galifrey.
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JosephStyles
post Mar 1 2020, 08:38 PM
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Brendan was the same story as the Timeless Child but disguised inside the Doctor's mind like a cloaking tool so it wouldn't uncover the truth, I believe!
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ON STRIKE
post Mar 1 2020, 08:42 PM
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UNLESS! The virus limiting the Time Lords to 12 regenerations affected the Doctor too, as thr entire regenerarion virus was based on his genetic code. The Time Lords could then just overwrite the virus code so that he has infinite regenerations again.
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ON STRIKE
post Mar 1 2020, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE(JosephInSpace @ Mar 1 2020, 08:38 PM) *
Brendan was the same story as the Timeless Child but disguised inside the Doctor's mind like a cloaking tool so it wouldn't uncover the truth, I believe!


Same story how?? It was completely different! Unless it was some fake human memories overlain on the real timeless child ones so as not to attract attention? And the final scene was the time lords extracring rhe human's mwmories to put into their database and use them to cloak secrets.
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Klaus
post Mar 1 2020, 08:43 PM
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Chibnall said some questions will carry over into the next series - I wonder which ones in particular they are.

I guess we need to explore the actual fugitive side now, as in why the Doctor was an active fugitive from the Time Lords moreso now that the Judoon have captured this incarnation rather than the one Iím guessing the Time Lords were after ie pre-Hartnell. I hope it means Ruth does reappear.
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ON STRIKE
post Mar 1 2020, 08:46 PM
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Ruth or River will reappear to break her out, orrrr the three planks of wood will use the Slater house to come find her. Orrr her Tardis will seek them out and they find her through that one.
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Calum
post Mar 1 2020, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE(Limp Brexit @ Mar 1 2020, 08:42 PM) *
UNLESS! The virus limiting the Time Lords to 12 regenerations affected the Doctor too, as thr entire regenerarion virus was based on his genetic code. The Time Lords could then just overwrite the virus code so that he has infinite regenerations again.

But, from what I can gather in the scene explaining that, the Time Lords didn't have any power over the Doctor's regeneration abilities at all - they were simply able to place a restriction of 12 on how many times the actual Time Lords could regenerate when they were given the power. So really, we don't know how many times the Doctor can regenerate, thus creating a plot hole in The Time of the Doctor.
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JosephStyles
post Mar 1 2020, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE(Limp Brexit @ Mar 1 2020, 08:43 PM) *
Same story how?? It was completely different! Unless it was some fake human memories overlain on the real timeless child ones so as not to attract attention? And the final scene was the time lords extracring rhe human's mwmories to put into their database and use them to cloak secrets.

It wasn't the exact same, but it was similar! Brendan falling off the cliff, like how the Timeless Child fell off the cliff. It was shot similarly on purpose. You're right, it's replacing the real memories with similar but not identical ones to seem inconspicuous.
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JosephStyles
post Mar 1 2020, 08:48 PM
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ALSO



!!!!
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