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> RATE | Doctor Who • Series 12, hello, i'm the doctor
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Klaus
post Mar 8 2020, 11:54 AM
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Rank from 0-10, with one 11 allowed
Deadline: 23:59 Friday 20 March


xx Spyfall, Part 1
xx Spyfall, Part 2
xx Orphan 55
xx Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror
xx Fugitive of the Judoon
xx Praxeus
xx Can You Hear Me?
xx The Haunting of Villa Diodati
xx Ascension of the Cybermen
xx The Timeless Children

BONUS

Favourite Character:
Favourite Moment:
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dandy*
post Mar 8 2020, 02:33 PM
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08 Spyfall, Part 1
05 Spyfall, Part 2
02 Orphan 55
07 Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror
07 Fugitive of the Judoon
03 Praxeus
04 Can You Hear Me?
09 The Haunting of Villa Diodati
06 Ascension of the Cybermen
03 The Timeless Children

BONUS

Favourite Character: Possibly Ruth at a push but she didn't play enough of a role in the series for me to truly warm to her properly, she has potential though.
Favourite Moment: I don't really have one tbh, it was an okay season but no moment really stands out for me as being one I'd go back to, hence the lack of 10s in my scores sad.gif
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JosephStyles
post Mar 8 2020, 03:05 PM
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09.5 Spyfall, Part 1
09.0 Spyfall, Part 2
06.0 Orphan 55
07.5 Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror
11.0 Fugitive of the Judoon
06.5 Praxeus
08.0 Can You Hear Me?
10.0 The Haunting of Villa Diodati
10.0 Ascension of the Cybermen
10.0 The Timeless Children


BONUS

Favourite Character: The Thirteenth Doctor
Favourite Moment: Captain Jack's comeback

A mixed bag...! Mostly good really, if Orphan 55 and Praxeus were removed it would be a truly brilliant series. All of the arc-based episodes really smashed it out of the park for me.
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ElectroBoy
post Mar 8 2020, 03:32 PM
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8.0 Spyfall, Part 1
8.0 Spyfall, Part 2
3.0 Orphan 55
4.0 Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror
9.0 Fugitive of the Judoon
6.0 Praxeus
4.0 Can You Hear Me?
7.0 The Haunting of Villa Diodati
5.0 Ascension of the Cybermen
0.0 The Timeless Children
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Chez Wombat
post Mar 8 2020, 03:37 PM
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08 Spyfall, Part 1
06 Spyfall, Part 2
02 Orphan 55
07 Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror
09 Fugitive of the Judoon
03 Praxeus
07 Can You Hear Me?
08 The Haunting of Villa Diodati
08 Ascension of the Cybermen
07 The Timeless Children

BONUS

Favourite Character: Yaz did finally get some development, so I suppose that if we're going off improvements.
Favourite Moment: The lighthouse scene and reveal of a TARDIS in Fugitive..., I would say Captain Jack if his appearance wasn't ultimately pointless!
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Calum
post Mar 8 2020, 08:48 PM
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10.0 Spyfall: Part One
09.0 Spyfall: Part Two
06.5 Orphan 55
08.0 Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror
11.0 Fugitive of the Judoon
04.0 Praxeus
07.0 Can You Hear Me?
10.0 The Haunting of Villa Diodati
08.0 Ascension of the Cybermen
05.0 The Timeless Children

Favourite character: In terms of supporting cast, Ethan tbh *.*
Favourite moment: The lighthouse/TARDIS/Doctor reveal in Fugitive of the Judoon. A true MOMENT for Doctor Who. As Chez says, Jack returning would have been a top pick if it didn't end up being the most random element of the series that amounted to absolutely nothing.
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ON STRIKE
post Mar 8 2020, 08:56 PM
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Rank from 0-10, with one 11 allowed
Deadline: 23:59 Friday 20 March

06 Spyfall, Part 1
03 Spyfall, Part 2
01 Orphan 55
08 Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror
09 Fugitive of the Judoon
04 Praxeus 
01 Can You Hear Me?
07 The Haunting of Villa Diodati
01 Ascension of the Cybermen
-1 The Timeless Children

BONUS

Favourite Character: Mary Shelley
Favourite Moment: Nicola Tesla's famous quote

Axe Doc Who. You should allow a -1 insteas of an 11, as ain't no one using that tongue.gif
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ON STRIKE
post Mar 8 2020, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE(JosephInSpace @ Mar 8 2020, 03:05 PM) *

10.0 Ascension of the Cybermen
10.0 The Timeless Children


Wat
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JosephStyles
post Mar 8 2020, 09:08 PM
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It's called taste, something u won't know about xo
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ON STRIKE
post Mar 8 2020, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE(JosephInSpace @ Mar 8 2020, 09:08 PM) *
It's called taste, something u won't know about xo


Ok, Martha Jones' biggest fan x
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Calum
post Mar 8 2020, 09:27 PM
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Honestly, the more I think about the events of The Timeless Children, the more I start to dislike it. It might not retain that 9/10 rating for very long. ph34r.gif

On one hand, I admire Chibnall for having the balls to carve the foundations to continue the show for however long with endless possibilities regarding incarnations of the Doctor, regeneration, origins, etc, but on the other hand I think it's only a part-conceived idea that he really didn't fully consider before putting pen to paper.

I guess it's important we wait and see what direction he takes the story in to the end of his tenure as showrunner, but I think it's a pretty inescapable fact that he's made a mess of a lot of things, and undermined a LOT of the efforts previous showrunners have put into the show too. Most notably, he's turned a lot of Moffat's era on its head now and will likely never bother to explain why any of that still makes any sense. The Timeless Children explicitly states that the Time Lords harvested the Doctor's DNA to harness the powers of regeneration for themselves, so in turn River simply cannot possess the ability to regenerate. And of course, The Time of the Doctor is just a wasted hour of television with the 'knowledge' we now have.

I'm still not too mad about it all (for now - and certainly not for the same reasons as many other fans). I don't care that this means Hartnell is no longer the 'original' or anything like that, but the amount of plot holes throughout the show (as recently as Matt Smith's era too!) is insane. I'll try to keep faith that Chibnall can somehow turn things around and explain some of it, but failing that it's still entirely possible for all of this to be retconned too in the future as if it never happened.
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ElectroBoy
post Mar 8 2020, 09:35 PM
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The whole 'twist' thing aside, I just found The Timeless Children so bloody dull.

I posted the below on a Who forum:

QUOTE
To be honest a lot of my issues with the story were that it was incredibly dull. The production values were good, but it was literally just a relentless info dump. Whilst I'm not a big fan of the 'twist', It would probably sit better with me if the story was vaguely interesting and done in an interesting way. However it was literally just the Doctor being info dumped by the Master for most of the story.

Graham, Yaz and Ryan also didn't seem to serve any purpose at all; they just aren't interesting characters and the writing for them in particular this series hasn't been great. Yaz has shown glimors this series but really needs developing and expanding.

I think I feel frustrated more than anything.


This post has been edited by ElectroBoy: Mar 8 2020, 09:36 PM
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Chez Wombat
post Mar 8 2020, 09:41 PM
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I still don't really understand the massive anger towards the Timeless Children and I certainly don't think it undid EVERYTHING about Doctor Who. I suppose if you look hard at it and go back to past seasons to point out inconsistencies maybe, but I don't tend to do that unless it's glaringly obvious it doesn't fit. Really, the only BIG thing it changed was that The Doctor wasn't Gallifreyan and William Hartnell may not have been the first Doctor and none of those are unfathomable to me, this could potentially lead to a lot more mystery and suspense next season as she finds out who she really is (not saying it WILL, this is Chibnall's writing we're talking about lmao x but it at least allows for the possibility).

My issues with it primarily was how badly Gallifrey's destruction by the Master was handled and how they relied on a deus ex machina at the end.
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dandy*
post Mar 8 2020, 10:17 PM
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My problem with the Timeless Children wasn't that it destroyed previous plots and scripts, it was more that it was just really boring. I disliked that they just shrunk the lone cyberman, just wiping out one of the better characters in the series and demoting him to a kids action figure.

I've lowered a few scores in my rate as the more I think about it, the less remarkable anything was.

I didn't like the Master being back either. The story for Missy was far better and the character of Missy was better written and more complex, the character should have been left with the exit she had.
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Klaus
post Mar 8 2020, 10:18 PM
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Another problem is that it only works on the basis that regenerations are the only thing that separates Time Lords from other beings. When actually there’s also the two hearts, the psychic abilities, great intelligence, ability to see time as a whole etc. Where had the Doctor got them from - you can’t force a second heart into someone and ensure it is there with every regeneration.

And because the reveal was just done by an info-dump from the Master with no other Time Lords to confirm/deny it feels a bit pointless to reveal now and more that it was done just for the sake of it. One of the main comparators is the reveal of the War Doctor, which was able to fit in so well with the story of the Day of the Doctor - it made sense narratively. The reveal in the Timeless Children just feels forced, it could have been executed a lot better rather than being tacked on.

It was a relentless ride to watch but, I agree that it sort of weakens with reflection?
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dandy*
post Mar 8 2020, 10:30 PM
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Also... re the last, can things just teleport into the Tardis? Like the judoon in the final part of the episode? It probably has happened before but I was a bit like whoa where did they come from?

Assuming they were arresting the Doctor for the same crime Ruth was being hunted for, why didn't they just arrest the doctor in Fugitive of the Judoon?
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DalekTurret32
post Mar 8 2020, 10:38 PM
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10 Spyfall, Part 1
09.5 Spyfall, Part 2
08 Orphan 55
08 Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror
08 Fugitive of the Judoon
09 Praxeus
11 Can You Hear Me?
07 The Haunting of Villa Diodati
10 Ascension of the Cybermen
10 The Timeless Children


BONUS

Favourite Character: Either Graham or that monster from Can You Hear Me?
Favourite Moment: The twists in Can You Hear Me?


This post has been edited by DalekTurret32: Mar 8 2020, 10:38 PM
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ON STRIKE
post Mar 8 2020, 10:41 PM
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The latest episodes are intensely boring and make absolutely no sense. The entire two parter was a boring info-dump. That info made no sense. Also, they um KILLED OFF HUMANITY. They are left with a woman beyond menopause age and a man. That's it. They're doomed. And they got sent back to the past, soooo? Humanity's over? The time lords are over? God sake. It was woeful.
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dandy*
post Mar 8 2020, 10:46 PM
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Let’s not forget it was the second time this series that they essentially killed off humanity with Orphan 55 supposedly being Earth!
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Calum
post Mar 8 2020, 10:53 PM
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Mar 8 2020, 10:18 PM) *
Another problem is that it only works on the basis that regenerations are the only thing that separates Time Lords from other beings. When actually there’s also the two hearts, the psychic abilities, great intelligence, ability to see time as a whole etc. Where had the Doctor got them from - you can’t force a second heart into someone and ensure it is there with every regeneration.

And because the reveal was just done by an info-dump from the Master with no other Time Lords to confirm/deny it feels a bit pointless to reveal now and more that it was done just for the sake of it. One of the main comparators is the reveal of the War Doctor, which was able to fit in so well with the story of the Day of the Doctor - it made sense narratively. The reveal in the Timeless Children just feels forced, it could have been executed a lot better rather than being tacked on.

It was a relentless ride to watch but, I agree that it sort of weakens with reflection?

Basically all of this.

I hadn't even thought about the two hearts, etc, so there we have another reason this whole thing doesn't really work. Are we now supposed to be of the zipped-up-the-back belief that the Doctor's species coincidentally shares the same biology as the Time Lords?

Part of me does sympathise with Chibnall when there's this outpouring of rage and fury at something that can be overlooked (or at least forgotten about a few years down the line), but Doctor Who fans aren't just your average, casual Broadchurch viewers that won't be paying attention to the finer details. He's making his mark and putting his stamp on Doctor Who history, but sadly it's... not been executed well and, more importantly, it just doesn't make sense.
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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th July 2020 - 01:31 PM