BuzzJack
Entertainment Discussion

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register | Help )

> -
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> How should album streams be counted?
Track this topic - Email this topic - Print this topic - Download this topic - Subscribe to this forum
Andrew.
post Jul 19 2020, 02:11 AM
Post #1
(Oh na na)
******
Group: Members
Posts: 10,831
Member No.: 21,161
Joined: 24-August 14
 


While I do agree that the singles chart is broadly representative of the top played tracks, I canít say the same for the albums chart. The likes of Mabel, Jax Jones and Becky Hill (and I love all three of those artists btw and Mabelís album is fab) albums are charting for months and months with no sign of slowing down despite not many people being interested in the actual album as a whole, looking at the streams the non-singles get.

My solution would be to not just exclude the top two tracks, but any song released as a single at any point. I mean you could say labels would cheat this by pushing songs on Hot Hits but not officially Ďreleasingí them but thereís few post-album hits anyway. Obviously only album tracks being counted would make album SPS numbers even lower than they already are (maybe like 90% lower in some cases oop) so to counteract that the ratio for album tracks would be reduced from 1000 to something that ensures sales arenít horrifically low, I donít know actually how much removing singles would reduce album streaming sales so idk the ratio Iíd have. If this rule came into force the chart would more resemble ALBUMS that people are listening to, not singles.

This might be totally impractical btw, Iím not an expert kink.gif What would you do if anything?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
UKL
post Jul 19 2020, 02:19 AM
Post #2
New Entry
*
Group: Members
Posts: 23
Member No.: 109,581
Joined: 10-July 20
   No Gallery Pics
 


Isnít the current system ok?
As the top 2 tracks are not excluded, but averaged along with the other top 10 tracks on the album?

The higher the top 2 tracks are, the higher the average & vice versa.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cara
post Jul 19 2020, 05:01 AM
Post #3
BuzzJack Climber
**
Group: Members
Posts: 69
Member No.: 40,622
Joined: 14-September 17
   No Gallery Pics
 


The current system is amazing. I wish Billboard used the same.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bjork
post Jul 19 2020, 06:15 AM
Post #4
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 16,325
Member No.: 22,665
Joined: 13-November 15
   No Gallery Pics
 


the solution is actually super simple, count only when people stream from the album

so don't count if I stream an album song from a playlist like Hot Hits or This is Mabel
only count if people search the album and click on it

and same for Greatest Hits, count only if you stream from that Greatest Hits
if I search for Elton John-Sacrifice and stream it from the parent album, Sleeping with the Past,
it shouldn't give 1 stream to the Greatest Hits like it does now, it should give a stream only to Sleeping with the Past
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LJ JORD 7
post Jul 19 2020, 07:06 AM
Post #5
BATTLE FOR YOUR LIFE ; BABYLON 🗡🦾
******
Group: AF Leader
Posts: 7,691
Member No.: 27,116
Joined: 12-March 17
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Bjork @ Jul 19 2020, 07:15 AM) *
the solution is actually super simple, count only when people stream from the album

so don't count if I stream an album song from a playlist like Hot Hits or This is Mabel
only count if people search the album and click on it

and same for Greatest Hits, count only if you stream from that Greatest Hits
if I search for Elton John-Sacrifice and stream it from the parent album, Sleeping with the Past,
it shouldn't give 1 stream to the Greatest Hits like it does now, it should give a stream only to Sleeping with the Past


This is what I think as well!

Some of the album chart is ridiculous tbh. But I agree with what youíve put here.

There should be some sort of ban on constantly adding to albums as well once itís been released!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dircadirca
post Jul 19 2020, 07:10 AM
Post #6
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,730
Member No.: 19,614
Joined: 28-July 13
   No Gallery Pics
 


I feel like the busted state of album charts more or less reflects the reality of the situation that the full album streaming experience isn't all that popular. If the 3rd biggest single can single-handedly out-do an entire album, then maybe the bloated singles album *should* be ahead. It's just a really low bar that not many albums can pass.

That being said, something probably needs to be done with Greatest Hits albums. Becky Hill's album probably has a shelf life, but more and more of these albums are just taking up permanent residence in the chart. I'm unsure about tracking the root of the stream because a lot of people listen to fragments on their own playlists and at that point, where they got the track from becomes arbitrary and meaningless (but inert all the same).


This post has been edited by Dircadirca: Jul 19 2020, 07:12 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Robbie
post Jul 19 2020, 07:19 AM
Post #7
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 2,970
Member No.: 366
Joined: 4-April 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


I don't know what the answer is but the albums chart is something of a mess at the moment. It's more or less a Greatest Hits chart. I believe in France best of type albums are banished to the Compilations chart. Maybe that should be done here to give studio albums a boost. But then you end up with albums that are barely selling / being streamed making the top 100.

Some in the industry have been pushing to have the downweighting rule for the top 2 tracks scrapped. It might boost album chart sales numbers but I doubt it woud make much of a difference to how many Greatest Hits albums are charting. A few more contemporary albums might chart in a higher position but it doesn't solve the problem of double counting.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bjork
post Jul 19 2020, 07:26 AM
Post #8
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 16,325
Member No.: 22,665
Joined: 13-November 15
   No Gallery Pics
 


I think including playlist streams in the album charts is wrong
Take Mabel, for instance. She has like tons of songs in tons of playlists... her 3rd highest hit (DonÝt Call Me Up) is doing 60K a day, we exclude the top 2 tracks for calculations... and for the average I'm being conservative and only counting theat 3rd track that is top 200, so 60K x 2, to account for Apple and other streaming services, so 120K a day... now you do the average by dividing by 10, 12K... and that's what I use for the neutralised tracks... so only counting her top 3 tracks she's on 150K a day x 7 = nearly 1 million streams = 1000 sales

so 1000 sales just cos she has 3 big hits on tons of playlists

then compare it to a poor indie artist like Sports Team or a legend artist like Madonna that doesn't have any song in any playlists, for them it's impossible to compete with artists like Mabel getting minimum 1000 gratis streams artificially inflated from playlists...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Popchartfreak
post Jul 19 2020, 07:52 AM
Post #9
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Moderator
Posts: 16,226
Member No.: 17,376
Joined: 18-July 12
   No Gallery Pics
 


albums should be only album "sales" when the entire album is played in one collection. Otherwise they are "tracks" and belong only in the "singles" chart.

Playlist tracks belong in a "playlist chart" only, not singles or albums, because they are no different from listening to radio where you don't get to choose what's up next.

That would soon sort what is actually popular from what is perceived to be popular but is really just programming to stop listeners stop listening to their playlist. The christmas charts are the ultimate examples of this. Just playlists, not people physically CHOOSING those tracks. I do it myself on youtube. listen to a video, then it just carries on playing other related tracks while I'm downstairs having to sort something out. I havent even listened to them, much less chosen to listen to them, but they still count as "sales" which is ridiculous.

Personal playlists or chosen tracks only.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vibe
post Jul 19 2020, 08:34 AM
Post #10
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 5,367
Member No.: 11,763
Joined: 31-August 10
   No Gallery Pics
 


I didnít know this, I just thought an album had to be streamed in full to count .

If only some tracks were streamed then that counts for the individual stream of that song.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jonjoliday
post Jul 19 2020, 09:00 AM
Post #11
(-_ē)
********
Group: Genre Mod
Posts: 78,042
Member No.: 5,042
Joined: 13-December 07
 


Once a single has been made, their streams should get halved/decrease, imo.

Example:

Single 1 - Full streams are counted for towards the singles charts
Single 2 - Same as above
ALBUM RELEASE - Single 1 & 2 streams are halved towards album charts "streaming points" (don't get affected for singles chart/whatever they're on at that point of their chart life - ACR, SCR, whatever)
Further singles during the campaign, get halved whenever they're pushed and promoted as singles (where they aren't affected)

Hopefully that'll stop/slow down the laziness of just tacking another song onto the album whenever they release something new (like Mabel!)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
UKL
post Jul 19 2020, 10:59 AM
Post #12
New Entry
*
Group: Members
Posts: 23
Member No.: 109,581
Joined: 10-July 20
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Jonjo @ Jul 19 2020, 10:00 AM) *
Once a single has been made, their streams should get halved/decrease, imo.

Example:

Single 1 - Full streams are counted for towards the singles charts
Single 2 - Same as above
ALBUM RELEASE - Single 1 & 2 streams are halved towards album charts "streaming points" (don't get affected for singles chart/whatever they're on at that point of their chart life - ACR, SCR, whatever)
Further singles during the campaign, get halved whenever they're pushed and promoted as singles (where they aren't affected)

Hopefully that'll stop/slow down the laziness of just tacking another song onto the album whenever they release something new (like Mabel!)


Is this not what basically occurs now?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
n'tAlice
post Jul 19 2020, 11:02 AM
Post #13
#JusticeForFreeWoman
********
Group: Members
Posts: 76,277
Member No.: 4,397
Joined: 25-September 07
 


y'all acting as if Maybelline has been having her album in the Top 5 constantly for several years :')

*cough* Capaldi 58/61 weeks in the Top 5 *cough*
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
UKL
post Jul 19 2020, 11:36 AM
Post #14
New Entry
*
Group: Members
Posts: 23
Member No.: 109,581
Joined: 10-July 20
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(n @ Jul 19 2020, 12:02 PM) *
y'all acting as if Maybelline has been having her album in the Top 5 constantly for several years :')

*cough* Capaldi 58/61 weeks in the Top 5 *cough*


FACTS.

They got hella chat for Mabel, but turned a blind eye for Capaldi & Ed Sheeran????
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jszmiles
post Jul 19 2020, 12:18 PM
Post #15
BuzzJack Enthusiast
****
Group: Members
Posts: 1,249
Member No.: 1,161
Joined: 22-August 06
 


QUOTE(Bjork @ Jul 19 2020, 08:15 AM) *
the solution is actually super simple, count only when people stream from the album

so don't count if I stream an album song from a playlist like Hot Hits or This is Mabel
only count if people search the album and click on it

and same for Greatest Hits, count only if you stream from that Greatest Hits
if I search for Elton John-Sacrifice and stream it from the parent album, Sleeping with the Past,
it shouldn't give 1 stream to the Greatest Hits like it does now, it should give a stream only to Sleeping with the Past



this is the best idea for the album chart imo as well.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jay Something
post Jul 19 2020, 01:59 PM
Post #16
"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
*******
Group: Chart Mod
Posts: 26,575
Member No.: 3,217
Joined: 4-April 07
 


I do wish OCC would so something to freshen up the album chart. The domination from Greatest Hits or albums with lots of hit singles on it... it’s so dull and it feels meaningless to me. I know Mabel is getting flack in this thread but she is a good example, particularly when her label continually updates her album track list. The fact that Ed’s Divide is still official Top 20 after 3 and a half years is ridiculous... it’s not Top 100 in the sales chart this week.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew.
post Jul 19 2020, 03:57 PM
Post #17
(Oh na na)
******
Group: Members
Posts: 10,831
Member No.: 21,161
Joined: 24-August 14
 


QUOTE(n @ Jul 19 2020, 12:02 PM) *
y'all acting as if Maybelline has been having her album in the Top 5 constantly for several years :')

*cough* Capaldi 58/61 weeks in the Top 5 *cough*

To be fair Lewis is still high on the sales chart so the album as a whole is clearly being used by some people laugh.gif

Don't get me wrong guys, I love Mabel but the rules are unfair.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Brett-Butler
post Jul 19 2020, 08:42 PM
Post #18
Howdy, disco citizens
******
Group: Moderator
Posts: 11,908
Member No.: 10,455
Joined: 16-January 10
   No Gallery Pics
 


They shouldn't.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Doctor Blind
post Jul 19 2020, 09:19 PM
Post #19
#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
******
Group: Moderator
Posts: 12,967
Member No.: 7,561
Joined: 27-October 08
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jul 19 2020, 09:42 PM) *
They shouldn't.


Exactly.

We could do what we do now and use the streaming of songs that just so happened to be related to a parent album or greatest hits collection as a way of artificially boosting sales figures for a flagging market. Or we can accept that albums are becoming quite a niche product with decreasing demand, and streaming allows a potentially infinite length to a hybrid "album" that could be part of, or create an infinite era (as we are seeing with some artists).

The mess we have now was entirely predictable. The singles chart does lend itself well to incorporating streaming, despite the fact that demand has a very long tail and a lot of older tracks continue to attract listens - but barely anyone is actually listening to an album in its entirety, except perhaps for the first week of release as curiousity streams and even then some tracks are skipped. They have tried their best to artificially represent the apparent popularity of the album but it just doesn't work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
T Boy
post Jul 20 2020, 08:30 AM
Post #20
Radical Pink Troll
*******
Group: Artist Mod
Posts: 21,665
Member No.: 177
Joined: 11-March 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jul 19 2020, 09:42 PM) *
They shouldn't.



QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jul 19 2020, 10:19 PM) *
Exactly.

We could do what we do now and use the streaming of songs that just so happened to be related to a parent album or greatest hits collection as a way of artificially boosting sales figures for a flagging market. Or we can accept that albums are becoming quite a niche product with decreasing demand, and streaming allows a potentially infinite length to a hybrid "album" that could be part of, or create an infinite era (as we are seeing with some artists).

The mess we have now was entirely predictable. The singles chart does lend itself well to incorporating streaming, despite the fact that demand has a very long tail and a lot of older tracks continue to attract listens - but barely anyone is actually listening to an album in its entirety, except perhaps for the first week of release as curiousity streams and even then some tracks are skipped. They have tried their best to artificially represent the apparent popularity of the album but it just doesn't work.


For me, this.

To be honest, Iíve always been clear on my dislike of streaming. I donít do it often, still preferring a physical product but I know Iím in the minority. I knew that they would never be able to add streaming to the charts and keep everyone happy. I understand completely the desire to have streaming included and of course it makes up the majority of the market these days. Theyíve made streaming in the singles chart somewhat workable but songs do hang around too long, many more songs are overlooked than there used to be and in order to freshen the charts theyíve had to bring in bizarre maths equations. But I guess itís workable.

Streaming was added to albums to boost dying sales but itís just isnít working anymore. The pandemic hasnít helped, but the issues were already there. GH albums never going away or even massive albums like all of Ed Sheeranís yet many new albums are getting a high peak before disappearing completely. Itís a mess and I really donít have a solution. I donít think they ever should have added streaming to the albums chart, most people streaming arenít listening to whole albums. But if you took them away, youíd get dire sales and that seems to be a massive turn off for people.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post


2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:


 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 13th August 2020 - 04:22 PM