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HeadlessJockey
post Oct 12 2020, 08:56 AM
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Manchester United and Liverpool come up with new proposal for English football

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Liverpool and Manchester United are leading radical proposals for the reform of English football.

The plans would see the Premier League hand over the £250m bailout required by the Football League to stave off a financial disaster among its 72 clubs.

Under the proposals, the Premier League would be cut to 18 teams, the EFL Cup in its present form would be abolished and the Community Shield scrapped.

In addition, the top-flight's 14-club majority voting system would change.

It is thought English Football League (EFL) chairman Rick Parry is in favour of the plans, first reported by the Daily Telegraph.

It is understood Liverpool's owners, the Fenway Sports Group, came forward with the initial plan, which has been worked on by United co-chairman Joel Glazer. It is anticipated it will receive the backing of Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur - the other members of England's 'big six'.

The idea is to address long-standing EFL concerns about the huge gap in funding between its divisions and the Premier League by handing over 25% of the annual income, though the current parachute payment system would be scrapped.

There would be a £250m up-front payment to address the existing crisis created by the coronavirus pandemic. In addition, the Football Association would receive what is being described as a £100m "gift".

No date has been set for the proposed new-style league to be in operation but sources have suggested 2022-23 is not out of the question.

In order to get down from 20 to 18, it is anticipated four clubs would be relegated directly, with two promoted from the Championship. In addition, there would be play-offs involving the team to finish 16th in the Premier League and those in third, fourth and fifth in the second tier.

It is also planned that, as well as the 'big six', ever-present league member Everton, West Ham United and Southampton - ninth and 11th respectively in the list of clubs who have featured in the most Premier League seasons - would be granted special status.

If six of those nine clubs vote in favour of a proposal, it would be enough to get it passed.

There is no mention of Aston Villa and Newcastle United, both of whom have featured in more Premier League campaigns than Manchester City.



What do you make of it?
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Suedehead2
post Oct 12 2020, 08:58 AM
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Does anyone know what this "special status" actually means?
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Rooney
post Oct 12 2020, 09:27 AM
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To be honest the proposal is very hit and miss, there are lots of stuff I really like and other stuff I am not too keen on. At the heart of it, the reforms for the football league are absolutely massive. It would allow the wealth to be distributed fairly and I think it is great. I'm also a fan of increasing capacity for away supporters and the cap at £20 per ticket. These are some really positive steps. However, the murkier part is the bigger teams definitely want to be able to play some form of Euro Super League for initiation only. I'm not sure how much I am a fan of this.. but it seems inevitable this will happen at some stage in the next 10 years.

I think there is a bit of a power play grab from the top teams too, but I also don't think it is that bad either. Don't forget it was entirely possible the likes of West Ham, Watford and Brighton could have voted to curtail the season completely and null and void only a few months ago. I think the special status is meant to be granted to the 9 clubs with the longest serving amount of time in the PL cumilatively.
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Quarantilas
post Oct 12 2020, 09:44 AM
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It canít be cumulative as weíre talking about Manchester city here. Only in the big 6 because of daddy sheikh and his bottomless oil well.


The 18 team and 16th vs 3rd-6th is a weird mix of the current play off system vs the Bundesligaís (as does the single cup campaign). It seems to work well in Germany so maybe itíll also work here. Iím all for the EFL cup being changed. Personally I think that the Prem teams should be taken out of it and it can be played by the rest of the league pyramid. The prize though should remain a Europa League qualifying spot. Letís get some Championship or League 1/2 teams into the Europa qualifiers and get them a cash boost.

Donít see whatís wrong with the charity shield tho.


Given the Glazers are involved there must be more money in it for United. They only act in their own self interest and self enrichment. There is absolutely zero way that this proposal wonít increase revenue in some way for United and this give them more funds to leech from our club. Either directly or indirectly by allowing a new euro supercup as Roo mentions.



If weíre copying the Bundesliga then Iíd like to see the 50+1 rule in place and proper financial fair play rules. None of this tapping daddyís oil well no more. (Looking at you too Chelski)
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Rooney
post Oct 12 2020, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 12 2020, 10:44 AM) *
It canít be cumulative as weíre talking about Manchester city here. Only in the big 6 because of daddy sheikh and his bottomless oil well.
The 18 team and 16th vs 3rd-6th is a weird mix of the current play off system vs the Bundesligaís (as does the single cup campaign). It seems to work well in Germany so maybe itíll also work here. Iím all for the EFL cup being changed. Personally I think that the Prem teams should be taken out of it and it can be played by the rest of the league pyramid. The prize though should remain a Europa League qualifying spot. Letís get some Championship or League 1/2 teams into the Europa qualifiers and get them a cash boost.

Donít see whatís wrong with the charity shield tho.
Given the Glazers are involved there must be more money in it for United. They only act in their own self interest and self enrichment. There is absolutely zero way that this proposal wonít increase revenue in some way for United and this give them more funds to leech from our club. Either directly or indirectly by allowing a new euro supercup as Roo mentions.
If weíre copying the Bundesliga then Iíd like to see the 50+1 rule in place and proper financial fair play rules. None of this tapping daddyís oil well no more. (Looking at you too Chelski)


The idea is basically the bigger teams take some control from the Premier League back to themselves. I think it allows for a Euro Super league or more lucrative pre-season friendlies. The idea in theory is that they give a lot back, but in return they get a lot of control. Plus is kind of closes the club at the top as FFP would be in-line with UEFA and the could veto any more oilgarchs or sports washing coming in to the league, which can only be a good thing.

However I am not too keen on the idea of 18 teams, I think 20 is fine. With all proposals anyway, I think there will be compromise somewhere in the middle. The big 6 will say though that if you lose them from the Premier League, it immediately becomes a less attractive proposition.
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Suedehead2
post Oct 12 2020, 01:56 PM
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Having seen more details, it is clearly a power grab by the "big six" but with three others added in to try and disguise that. They are proposing that the votes of six of the nine would be sufficient to get rule changes agreed, regardless of what the other nine (or eleven) clubs think. That includes agreeing television deals and how to distribute the money. In other words, the six could, for example, agree that they should get the same amount of television money as they get now (or even more) and that the remaining clubs will take the full hit from the 25% distribution to the Football League.

Losing two clubs from the Premier League would have knock-on effects on the Football League and below. That could be a good thing. I am still minded to support four divisions of 20 clubs below the Premier League with the third tier comprising a Northern and Southern division. That then means a restructure below the Football League.
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HeadlessJockey
post Oct 12 2020, 02:06 PM
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Keep it as the 20 teams, without this plan surely give the £250m bailout to the Football League clubs. This is just power for The "Big Six" The Community Shield is only one match. Something needs to happen to help the Football League clubs otherwise we could see another Bury/ Macclesfield Town. It never is great to lose clubs at all.
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Houdini
post Oct 12 2020, 04:56 PM
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I really hope this doesn't happen, there must be another way of helping out the teams in the lower leagues apart from butchering the structure of the Premier League. It's a shame that Manchester United are directly associated with this.
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Steve201
post Oct 12 2020, 06:21 PM
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Taking out the names of football clubs from this we could be looking at any former nationalised industries and trying to make them competitive just shows how capitalism becomes monopolistic in all sectors and shows how it can never be good for the people consuming it.
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RabbitFurCoat
post Oct 12 2020, 08:03 PM
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I think there's a hell of a lot to like, particularly when looking at it from an EFL perspective and safeguarding the immediate future of the game. And there are some bits which aren't really much of an issue - PL at 18 teams was supposed to happen when the PL was formed, relegated team in play-off, I don't think anyone would be bothered about scrapping the EFL cup but they could just make it a competition for teams not in Europe. It certainly gives something for pricks like Sean Dyche and Steve Parish something to think about.

It'll be interesting to know what their overall aims are and what are the negotiables, it's obviously a proposal that they know won't pass but it starts the discussion and we'll soon know what the bits of it are that they want to keep.

The response from govenrment has made me laugh though...

Government: No, we're not bailing out the football league, there's enough money in football as it is.

Premier League Clubs: Here are some detailed plans which will bail out EFL clubs

Government: No, definitely not like that
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Rooney
post Oct 12 2020, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE(RabbitFurCoat @ Oct 12 2020, 09:03 PM) *
I think there's a hell of a lot to like, particularly when looking at it from an EFL perspective and safeguarding the immediate future of the game. And there are some bits which aren't really much of an issue - PL at 18 teams was supposed to happen when the PL was formed, relegated team in play-off, I don't think anyone would be bothered about scrapping the EFL cup but they could just make it a competition for teams not in Europe. It certainly gives something for pricks like Sean Dyche and Steve Parish something to think about.

It'll be interesting to know what their overall aims are and what are the negotiables, it's obviously a proposal that they know won't pass but it starts the discussion and we'll soon know what the bits of it are that they want to keep.

The response from govenrment has made me laugh though...

Government: No, we're not bailing out the football league, there's enough money in football as it is.

Premier League Clubs: Here are some detailed plans which will bail out EFL clubs

Government: No, definitely not like that


Agreed, I think a lot of it is good for the game too and stops clubs over spending in the Premier League before falling on mass financial hardship if they get relegated. It solves the football league pyramid problem and is aligned to the 2024-2025 Champions League proposals. I suspect the league will probably stay at 20 teams, but teams competing in Europe will be exempt from the League Cup.

The problem is now Manchester United and Liverpool have shown their hand. I suspect they will get what they want as ultimately if the Top 6 decide to break away the Premier League does not become as big a commerically viable product. Be interesting to see what happens next and who supports what.
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HeadlessJockey
post Oct 14 2020, 03:52 PM
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Rooney
post Oct 14 2020, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE(HeadlessJockey @ Oct 14 2020, 04:52 PM) *


Look, I don't think the Big Picture proposal was ideal and certainly needed some tweaking. But I'll be interested to see the journalists and general public in the next few days after the cryout from the plans from Liverpool and Manchester United.

£50m to League 1 and League 2 and loans to the Championship is pityful. There is far too much greed in the Premier League, it comes from all angles as well, not just the Top 6 clubs.
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Suedehead2
post Oct 14 2020, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 14 2020, 05:07 PM) *
Look, I don't think the Big Picture proposal was ideal and certainly needed some tweaking. But I'll be interested to see the journalists and general public in the next few days after the cryout from the plans from Liverpool and Manchester United.

£50m to League 1 and League 2 and loans to the Championship is pityful. There is far too much greed in the Premier League, it comes from all angles as well, not just the Top 6 clubs.

But those six are greedier than most. As I said above, the offer to the Football League might appear generous, but Liverpool and Man U are offering to be generous with other clubs' money.
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Rooney
post Oct 14 2020, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 14 2020, 05:49 PM) *
But those six are greedier than most. As I said above, the offer to the Football League might appear generous, but Liverpool and Man U are offering to be generous with other clubs' money.


Are they really though? I don't think they are. Let's not forget that the likes of West Ham, Watford, Brighton wanted to cancel the Premier League in April time because they were scared of relegation. Likewise now, lots teams don't want the proposals because it could negatively impact them in the future. Which I understand don't get me wrong, I am less keen on the voting rights. However a prime example of the ridiculous nature was clubs not voting to use 5 subs this season despite the rest of Europe allowing so - its braindead.

Plus the TV rights are shared equally. Which I am OK with, but how many people turn out to watch Burnley vs West Ham compared with Manchester United vs Fulham. I cans ee why the big clubs want a bigger share of the money when they are the teams that attract subscribers and these huge fees. The other clubs do well off of this. Plus it creates an unsustainable nature to stay with the money, just look at the likes of Huddersfield, Sunderland, Hull etc. who have all fallen upon hard times as they spent well above their means.
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Rooney
post Oct 14 2020, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 14 2020, 05:49 PM) *
But those six are greedier than most. As I said above, the offer to the Football League might appear generous, but Liverpool and Man U are offering to be generous with other clubs' money.


Also, this is what the "loans" are being offered to Football League clubs vs the money Liverpool & Manchester United proposed.

QUOTE
- PL taking complete control of the football calendar in exchange for loans and grants
- PL requiring EFL clubs to accept no promotion or relegation between the top two divisions if less than 75% of the season was completed
- The League Cup being scrapped
- PL imposing salary caps on the Championship, League 1 and League 2
- EFL providing support for the PL's plan to bring in unlimited numbers of foreign players post-Brexit


The Football League should rightly reject that. The PL clubs have thrown mud at Liverpool and Manchester United (in some parts, deservedly). But this is taking advantage of the current Football League predicament.
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Suedehead2
post Oct 14 2020, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 14 2020, 05:56 PM) *
Are they really though? I don't think they are. Let's not forget that the likes of West Ham, Watford, Brighton wanted to cancel the Premier League in April time because they were scared of relegation. Likewise now, lots teams don't want the proposals because it could negatively impact them in the future. Which I understand don't get me wrong, I am less keen on the voting rights. However a prime example of the ridiculous nature was clubs not voting to use 5 subs this season despite the rest of Europe allowing so - its braindead.

Plus the TV rights are shared equally. Which I am OK with, but how many people turn out to watch Burnley vs West Ham compared with Manchester United vs Fulham. I cans ee why the big clubs want a bigger share of the money when they are the teams that attract subscribers and these huge fees. The other clubs do well off of this. Plus it creates an unsustainable nature to stay with the money, just look at the likes of Huddersfield, Sunderland, Hull etc. who have all fallen upon hard times as they spent well above their means.

If last season had been cancelled, that would have been a one-off. Liverpool and Man U are trying to secure the bulk of the television money for themselves indefinitely.
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