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> How can Madonna win over the GP again (UK posters), Discuss.
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jlj
post Nov 12 2020, 05:15 PM
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I was thinking this week how amazing it would be if Madonna could experience the kind of success that Kylie has had with her last two albums

As a fellow female who debuted in the 80’s shes really hitting a whole new stride lately and looks set to claim #1 tomorrow with her biggest sales since 2010 and the highest sales of 2020!. For a time Kylie also had a few eras what weren’t great commercial successes but she bounced back successfully how can Madonna do the same with her next eras to claim back some success.

Is it due to the sound of her last eras not being as accessible or is it more to do with her personality? We all know Madonna gets a lot of negativity when she does talk shows over here compared to Kylie who always gets heavily praised and always comes across so well too.

I don’t think it’s impossible for Madonna to come back again but my thoughts for how she’d manage this would be

To not try and appeal to the streaming market and just release an album what caters to her own strengths without trying to be cool / current with the younger generation. Scrap the features with younger rising stars and bring out a solo album whats essentially pop sounding.
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vibe
post Nov 12 2020, 08:56 PM
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Madonna has done a lot to lose her fan base in recent years.

* MDNA album was poor (especially the single choices)
* MDNA tour and Rebel Heart start times (starting gigs at 10, 10.30 etc)
* Not playing enough hits on Tours (casual fans expect this, Kylie does a GH every tour)
* Madame X - Cancellations
* Tour Ticket Prices
* She has lost her marbles and is acting crazy !!!
* Media have turned on her and make her a mockery, this has never been done to darling Kylie

I would love Madonna to once again be on top!!
Levitating didn’t even do anything probably because M was attached !

She needs to release an album of Pop Gems
And do a GH tour

Then she could do it
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Liam.k.
post Nov 12 2020, 11:56 PM
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You raise very good points there vibe. The two/three hour delay on start times is a disgrace, especially when you consider the amount of money people have spent on their tickets, plus travel and accommodation. Madonna's given various reasons to excuse herself but it's not good enough when it's night after night. Telling the crowds to "shut the f*** up" for booing as a result is not the right response at all either. I imagine all that has lost her a lot of casual fans.

Her big public appearances the last few years have been shrouded in negativity. The 2017 Women's March, Eurovision, Graham Norton... even as a fan, I can understand why the public perception is at an all time low. Social media equally has been such a curse. Some of the things she put on there... it's like she's so out of touch with reality and unable to read the room. Didn't she part ways with her long-time PA like five years ago? Would explain a lot.

Don't want to keep going on too negatively. I'm always going to be a huge Madonna fan, I can tell she's well-intentioned and that her humour and shyness can be mistaken for bitchiness. But I can also really understand why she's in the position she's in right now.

It would be great if this biopic could turn things around. It's definitely a start - we've seen the renewed interest in Queen and Elton John's music since their biopics so it's possible the same could happen for Madonna, especially if it focuses a lot on 1984-1990. Only trouble is that we're probably still a way off it being released. Perhaps a Glastonbury headlining spot could have a similar effect?

I agree that a more commercial album would help, but first she needs to improve her public image. She could release 'Ray of Light'/'Confessions' part 2 and it wouldn't be a success at this point.
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Alberto!
post Nov 13 2020, 12:30 AM
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I agree with most of the above - it's a mix of the music itself, her attitude, the social media cringe, some embarrassing mishaps (the Brits, the Eurovision edited YouTube version), the lack of originality maybe (in the research of new sounds/feats). I think there is just something about her that comes across as tone-deaf and unauthentic. It would take a while to elaborate properly! But i also agree that while I'll forever be a Madonna fan who buys her albums and sees her live I'm not as excited by her next move as I was up to Hard Candy.

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jlj
post Nov 13 2020, 01:13 AM
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Vibe definitely made some points there what hadn’t even crossed my mind.

The Madame X tour really got a slaughtering despite reviews from some sources actually being good the cancellation of many shows is what grabbed more headlines.

I kinda agree her being on social media isn’t a great move for her too. I feel like Kylie kinda is aware of her market better at present though and she’s keeping her fans happy by just releasing music what suits her whilst also experimenting. With Madonna lately when she’s experimenting it isn’t translating well to the GP. Madame X is a daring record and it’s brilliant but the GP for whatever reason didn’t get it likewise with Rebel Heart. MDNA which was much worse actually done rather well but it was attached to the Super Bowl and if it was her last album released in the pure sales era too.

I’d love her to get a career boost with the next album but it may take some hard work. The Biopic will be a potential starting point but i can only see that boosting her Greatest Hits type albums and have people revisit some of her back catalogue. For a new album to be a success there needs to be some kind of plan. She doesn’t need success at this point but it would be so good if she could get one last big era and get another #1 album this decade what’s a #1 by it feeling like a real event and not just because she chose a dead release week.
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spiceboy
post Nov 13 2020, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE(vibe @ Nov 12 2020, 08:56 PM) *
Madonna has done a lot to lose her fan base in recent years.

* MDNA album was poor (especially the single choices)
* MDNA tour and Rebel Heart start times (starting gigs at 10, 10.30 etc)
* Not playing enough hits on Tours (casual fans expect this, Kylie does a GH every tour)
* Madame X - Cancellations
* Tour Ticket Prices
* She has lost her marbles and is acting crazy !!!
* Media have turned on her and make her a mockery, this has never been done to darling Kylie

I would love Madonna to once again be on top!!
Levitating didn’t even do anything probably because M was attached !

She needs to release an album of Pop Gems
And do a GH tour

Then she could do it



A lot this tbh... MDNA really was such a poor rushed album she had never really recovered from that despite the two follow up albums being better than that one, Give me all your love was a really really bad choice for her.

As a huge fan I saw Madonna on the MDNA tour and she was 2 hours late getting on and she did a partial set list as the venue had to close at 11pm so she missed out quite a few songs, and from what I saw it was the hits she cut out just performing the album instead... most of the public around me didn't have a clue what most of the songs were... I've never bothered going to see her since especially since the tickets were so expensive, a lot of more casual fans would boycott her music too (I couldn't do that as I love so many of her songs!)

Her appearances on TV are also very off-putting. I mean on Graham Norton how RUDE she was towards that fan who made her dolls. OK it was a little strange and her reaction was some what amusing, but in all reality she acted like a bitch towards someone who clearly loves her and was very possibly gutted. The general public (and myself as a huge fan tbh) would be very put off by that behaviour. Kylie in contrast would never have acted like that which makes her much more endearing.

The music is also a bit cringe I mean the stuff with Nikki Minaj needs to stop, she doesn't appeal to that younger audience her audience are all in their 30-60s they don't care about Nikki Minajor want to hear her singing "BITCH I'm Madonna'... especially not when she has had some such profound amazing songs.

So yeah a complete image overhall and music more suited for her general fan base not her die hard fan base who will buy anything.
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Sour Candy
post Nov 13 2020, 06:21 PM
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Well I think it's just a phase that all superstars go through at some point. I think what she needs to do is just keep going - Madame X was an amazing album and got great reviews, and the tour even moreso. I think EVERYONE loved it? Not many people could see the concert though.

If the movie she's writing is good, she should get some great press again and people will like her. She's a legend and her streaming numbers have constantly been increasing. Medellin actually did pretty well, it has 54 million streams on Spotify. I don't think any popstar from the 80s can compete with that? (New music I mean)
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Tawdry Hepburn
post Nov 13 2020, 11:57 PM
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I think she's utterly lost her marbles and I don't know if she's too far gone at this point.

At the very least, someone around her needs to take her phone away!
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Chapman
post Nov 14 2020, 10:16 AM
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I dont think its possible now for Madonna to regain the GBP's support. She will always be a fan only kind of artist.

Had she gone down the route Kylie has, i.e. made music for her age, not tried to appeal to the 'youngsters' which then makes her look desperate. She could have continued being a big album seller. Had Madame X came ten years earlier, she may have still been a big hitter now. unsure.gif


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Sour Candy
post Nov 14 2020, 12:02 PM
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I think Madame X is really "music for her age"? It sounds like a perfect Madonna album to me but very modern at the same time.

Regarding Kylie, I love her, but I don't really see her taking any risks at this day and age. Disco is a good album for what it is (a disco album) but it's hardly taking her career to a new direction. She did that album with more artistic ambition when releasing Light Years and Fever.

Just my opinion of course.


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spiceboy
post Nov 14 2020, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE(Sour Candy @ Nov 14 2020, 12:02 PM) *
I think Madame X is really "music for her age"? It sounds like a perfect Madonna album to me but very modern at the same time.

Regarding Kylie, I love her, but I don't really see her taking any risks at this day and age. Disco is a good album for what it is (a disco album) but it's hardly taking her career to a new direction. She did that album with more artistic ambition when releasing Light Years and Fever.

Just my opinion of course.



I think the poster was saying Madame X is more "music for her age" and it should have been released 10 Years ago instead of trying to appeal to younger audiences with MDNA and Rebel Heart with the MIA, Nikki Minaj features.

I think Kylie has experimented past Light Years and Fever... Body Language and X were very different for her as was Kiss me one (but that was a terrible era)... Even her last one has country influences to it.
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dandy*
post Nov 14 2020, 12:36 PM
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I'm not sure Madonna's success has ever been linked to her personality. She's an act that has reaped great levels of success down to the quality of her material over the years and generally her popularity has risen and fallen along with how good or accessible her music has been.

She was huge in the 80s because she had a pretty flawless run of singles for a pop act in that time, many of which have really stood the test of time. She then became less successful after the Immaculate Collection because she explored an artistic route that was creatively interesting but nowhere near as safe for the general public. I personally love that she tried different approaches on Erotica and Bedtime Stories but even at that point it was clear that the masses weren't going to just follow whatever she did like sheep, they abandoned her because she was no longer making music for a casual fanbase.

Ray of Light is probably the only era where her personality was a part of her success, she was of course widely recognised for reinventing herself as someone who was loving motherhood and recognising that the excesses of her previous lifestyle hadn't brought her happiness - a narrative that was very relatable to the public and one that was softer and more accessible than she had ever been before... plus the quality in her album was stepped up by quite a margin. The Music album again was pretty commercial and very successful but the moment she made another move that was creatively interesting and perhaps deemed a little controversial (American Life) then the sales collapsed yet again.

You can see that trend again with Confessions being very accessible, Hard Candy being kinda accessible at its time.

MDNA was the killer blow for me as it was the first time she broke the pattern. Everything before was either creatively experimental or accessible and high quality. MDNA was an attempt at accessible again I think but the songs were just so unexciting, as an album it's just so bland and brought neither of her strongest sides to the party - it was never going to appeal to any demographic within her typical audience. It's the only album of hers that I didn't bother to buy and I'm a pretty devoted fan. Rebel Heart followed and that was better but again didn't really excel in terms of creativity or having accessible tracks.

Madame X is a far better album but it's very much on the side of the experimental side of things with some tough messages behind it. It's the side of her that has never sold particularly well even when she was at her peak levels of popularity. People seem to have this misconception that historically she's always sold amazingly because she was Madonna and I don't believe that's the truth at all, she's sold well when her material has been strong enough that it's been impossible to ignore its brilliance. I don't really know anyone who loves her for her personality!!!


So I think I'm concluding that she could easily become popular again but only if she returns at some point with material that is strong enough, I'm sure she's capable of it but I'm not sure whether she's interested enough in taking her music back in that direction. She's achieved an incredible amount and I very much admire her and am more than happy to accept she's more than earned the right to take her music in whatever direction she chooses.


Kylie on the other hand is definitely one of the most likeable music stars out there, she's fun and seems to genuinely care about making music and doing performances that she thinks her fans will want. I guess she's managed to build up a real human connection with people over the years... but again she hasn't been successful in every era regardless - let's not forget the Impossible Princess and Body Talk eras where she tried something more interesting and lost a large number of sales as a result. She's basically made pretty safe pop albums ever since - which is absolutely fine - and that to me is why her popularity has remained relatively strong. But also let's remember that, although she's getting #1s, it's not like she's getting huge million selling albums either - she's just got a lot of very dedicated fans in a way that a band like Take That still have.
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Sour Candy
post Nov 14 2020, 01:09 PM
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Well put Dandy!

The part of the success of Madonna was obviously the huge pop stardom (like Michael Jackson level) in the late 80s/early 90s. She was seen as almost a mythical figure in pop culture and it all peaked artistically and commercially during the Ray of Light era. I think it has all been slow downhill from there but the fact that she scored two of her biggest hit singles in 2005 and 2008 tell that she was still prominent figure in pop culture while now she is seen more like a legend which is totally fine for me as a fan!

I kinda like MDNA though, it has some duds but the strongest tracks such as Girl Gone Wild and Love Spent are very good.

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post Nov 14 2020, 04:25 PM
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The problem with Madonna is she used to set the trends but now she’s just jumping on the band wagon and releasing stuff to fit in with the crowd. Some of the collaborations with the likes of Nicki Minaj have just been awful in terms of quality.

None of her recent output has been great and her last good album was confessions on a dance floor. She needs to work with better producers and go back to basics rather than just doing something to fit in. Confessions worked because it was a great sounding album and it didn’t need to include any tacky collaborations.

Madonna is 10 years older than Kylie and will probably find it even harder to achieve a successful return but it’s not impossible. One way of raising her profile again might be by re-recording some new versions of her older hits along with some new material.


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vibe
post Nov 14 2020, 04:36 PM
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Madame X was def not chasing trends .

The problem with this album is that only one song was sent to radio in the UK.

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Sour Candy
post Nov 14 2020, 04:51 PM
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QUOTE(slowdown73 @ Nov 14 2020, 06:25 PM) *
One way of raising her profile again might be by re-recording some new versions of her older hits along with some new material.


Why she should do THAT? ohmy.gif
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spiceboy
post Nov 14 2020, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE(dandy* @ Nov 14 2020, 12:36 PM) *
I'm not sure Madonna's success has ever been linked to her personality. She's an act that has reaped great levels of success down to the quality of her material over the years and generally her popularity has risen and fallen along with how good or accessible her music has been.

She was huge in the 80s because she had a pretty flawless run of singles for a pop act in that time, many of which have really stood the test of time. She then became less successful after the Immaculate Collection because she explored an artistic route that was creatively interesting but nowhere near as safe for the general public. I personally love that she tried different approaches on Erotica and Bedtime Stories but even at that point it was clear that the masses weren't going to just follow whatever she did like sheep, they abandoned her because she was no longer making music for a casual fanbase.

Ray of Light is probably the only era where her personality was a part of her success, she was of course widely recognised for reinventing herself as someone who was loving motherhood and recognising that the excesses of her previous lifestyle hadn't brought her happiness - a narrative that was very relatable to the public and one that was softer and more accessible than she had ever been before... plus the quality in her album was stepped up by quite a margin. The Music album again was pretty commercial and very successful but the moment she made another move that was creatively interesting and perhaps deemed a little controversial (American Life) then the sales collapsed yet again.

You can see that trend again with Confessions being very accessible, Hard Candy being kinda accessible at its time.

MDNA was the killer blow for me as it was the first time she broke the pattern. Everything before was either creatively experimental or accessible and high quality. MDNA was an attempt at accessible again I think but the songs were just so unexciting, as an album it's just so bland and brought neither of her strongest sides to the party - it was never going to appeal to any demographic within her typical audience. It's the only album of hers that I didn't bother to buy and I'm a pretty devoted fan. Rebel Heart followed and that was better but again didn't really excel in terms of creativity or having accessible tracks.

Madame X is a far better album but it's very much on the side of the experimental side of things with some tough messages behind it. It's the side of her that has never sold particularly well even when she was at her peak levels of popularity. People seem to have this misconception that historically she's always sold amazingly because she was Madonna and I don't believe that's the truth at all, she's sold well when her material has been strong enough that it's been impossible to ignore its brilliance. I don't really know anyone who loves her for her personality!!!
So I think I'm concluding that she could easily become popular again but only if she returns at some point with material that is strong enough, I'm sure she's capable of it but I'm not sure whether she's interested enough in taking her music back in that direction. She's achieved an incredible amount and I very much admire her and am more than happy to accept she's more than earned the right to take her music in whatever direction she chooses.
Kylie on the other hand is definitely one of the most likeable music stars out there, she's fun and seems to genuinely care about making music and doing performances that she thinks her fans will want. I guess she's managed to build up a real human connection with people over the years... but again she hasn't been successful in every era regardless - let's not forget the Impossible Princess and Body Talk eras where she tried something more interesting and lost a large number of sales as a result. She's basically made pretty safe pop albums ever since - which is absolutely fine - and that to me is why her popularity has remained relatively strong. But also let's remember that, although she's getting #1s, it's not like she's getting huge million selling albums either - she's just got a lot of very dedicated fans in a way that a band like Take That still have.



See I think there is a lot of flaws in this tbh...

1. Like a prayer was certainly a controversial and experimental album with the gospel sounds and the Christian imagery but that was a massive success, again with I'm Breathless the concept album sound was experimental and a big success despite only have a couple of singles to promote it.

2. Erotica and Bedtime stories were hardly broken sales, yes they didn't reach the heights of LAV / True Blue sales but then nothing actually has since then and I struggle to think of any artist in history who has had all their albums sell 10-20million plus so it's only natural sales will descrease.

3. Both Ray of light and Music are great artistic albums and she really experimented with her sound.

4. Hard Candy being accessible music is true - aka trend following rather than setting - but actually album sales were very similar to American Life's sales so the accessible argument doesn't work there if we are saying American Life's experimental sales showed the effects of experimental music. She actually got more high peaking hits in that era than she did in the Hard Candy era too...

I do agree than MDNA did a lot of damage to Madonna though. That combined with her public perception of not being reliable for concerts (and the many fans she will have turned off... remember she does stadiums that cater to 80k+ crowds) and then interviews which don't help her public persona of course she is going to struggle.


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post Nov 14 2020, 11:58 PM
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QUOTE(vibe @ Nov 12 2020, 03:56 PM) *
* MDNA album was poor (especially the single choices)
* MDNA tour and Rebel Heart start times (starting gigs at 10, 10.30 etc)
* Not playing enough hits on Tours (casual fans expect this, Kylie does a GH every tour)
* Madame X - Cancellations
* Tour Ticket Prices
* She has lost her marbles and is acting crazy !!!
* Media have turned on her and make her a mockery, this has never been done to darling Kylie


I think vibe nails it with all of this.

To me, the key way to start winning people back would be to give the general public what they want with the tours. I've gotten pushback from other Madonna fans about this before...but truly...the general public has not been getting what they want from a Madonna show for a while.

I went to Rebel Heart. Personally, I enjoyed it. Spectacular production. But nearly everyone else I knew at the show left disappointed. It started three hours late...and when it finally got going, they didn't get enough of the hits they paid to hear. Sure, big fans like me know M goes on late and heavily caters to the current album. But it's not entirely fair to expect the GP to just know that. They don't want to get a little sliver of Vogue buried in a full length version of one of the weaker Rebel Heart album tracks. I'll go to another show by Madonna. All the other people I know...will not. The show didn't deliver what they wanted. I've seen many of the top selling acts of all time. Elton John, Billy Joel, Paul McCartney, Queen, Fleetwood Mac, Rolling Stones, Aretha Franklin. Madonna was the only one who didn't have the inherent understanding of...ya gotta give the people what they want.

Also. A biopic about Madonna may have the potential to win some of the GP back over. But a biopic about Madonna *directed* by Madonna...will most certainly not do that. Diablo Cody writing the screenplay? Great idea. Madonna directing? This will be a guaranteed disaster. It will be viewed as a shameless ego project. Furthermore, the reason people love Bohemian Rhapsody isn't because it's a great film (in some ways, it's not). It's loved because it delivers big energetic renditions of songs the world loves. Madonna has shown for years a disinterest (and sometimes contempt) for what the GP wants. If she wants a hit, she needs to hand the reigns to someone like Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins.


This post has been edited by Piers: Nov 15 2020, 12:01 AM
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post Nov 15 2020, 12:42 AM
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She comes across cringe worthy at times these days. The shock factor isn’t as exciting as it was once was as she’s already tried those tricks and done them better. But her personality is off putting too now more than ever. Kylie is successful right now because she’s just herself and the music she’s doing is fitting to where she is right now. She’s not trying to be current again or win over new fans she’s just feeding her existing market. Madonna isn’t gonna win over new fans by working with people like Maluma, Swae Lee or Nicki Minaj. Drop the collaborations and get back to creating strong solo albums. Madonna doesn’t work well with other artists all her huge eras and critically successful eras are when she makes full solo albums.
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Sour Candy
post Nov 15 2020, 08:56 AM
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I don't see how features on her albums diminish her output as a solo artist? Maluma is a PERFECT match for Medellin which is a song about a town in Colombia. Anitta is PERFECT for Faz Gostoso, Batukadeiras Orchestra are PERFECT for Batuka.

Kylie had Gente de Zona and Jack Savoretti on her previous album too. (Madame X has also done BETTER in streaming than Golden, if you want to compare the two.)

It seems that I'm the only one who sees her attempts to create new as a positive thing, opposed to people who want her to re-record her OLD songs


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