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spiceboy
post Dec 28 2020, 06:01 PM
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Having just heard a demo version of Burn by Leona Lewis on Youtube which was recorded before Ellie recorded it and sounds exactly the same, I was just wondering why Ellie Goulding has writing credits on the song? Did she write it with Ryan Tedder and offer it to Leona before deciding to record it herself? Or does she not write her own material but takes a writing credit ala Beyonce? blink.gif
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sn👠ke
post Dec 28 2020, 06:03 PM
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Speaking of other versions of Burn, does anyone remember the Burn Alienator remix of the Ellie Goulding version which was in the UK itunes chart before the main official release?

This post has been edited by Road Salt Mixer: Dec 28 2020, 06:04 PM
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Bjork
post Dec 28 2020, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE(spiceboy @ Dec 28 2020, 07:01 PM) *
Having just heard a demo version of Burn by Leona Lewis on Youtube which was recorded before Ellie recorded it and sounds exactly the same, I was just wondering why Ellie Goulding has writing credits on the song? Did she write it with Ryan Tedder and offer it to Leona before deciding to record it herself? Or does she not write her own material but takes a writing credit ala Beyonce? blink.gif


she usually writes her stuff
but here she didn't and just did a Beyonce
basically she bought the song on the condition of being added as cowriter.
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spiceboy
post Dec 28 2020, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE(Bjork @ Dec 28 2020, 07:58 PM) *
she usually writes her stuff
but here she didn't and just did a Beyonce
basically she bought the song on the condition of being added as cowriter.



It makes me question whether she writes her other stuff also now. huh.gif
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Bjork
post Dec 29 2020, 06:57 AM
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Sure she is involved in her songs, and in the early days I think some of the songs she did on her own
but most of her songs are co-writes with others, and lately mostly with "teams" so hard to know who does what
which is the norm with most "modern" so-called singer-songwriters

that said, Ellie had zero involvement in her biggest hits ie Love me like you do and Burn
and even Lights, that was a half-finished song where she just messed with the Lyrics but the core of the song ie the riff and the melody were done
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Frawdree
post Dec 29 2020, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE(Road Salt Mixer @ Dec 28 2020, 07:03 PM) *
Speaking of other versions of Burn, does anyone remember the Burn Alienator remix of the Ellie Goulding version which was in the UK itunes chart before the main official release?

That was an illegal upload, it wasn’t there before the official release and it wasn’t even owned or created by the person who put it on YouTube. reddit dot com/r/COPYRIGHT/comments/1kv5rw/my_friend_made_a_remix_of_a_song_someone/

“My friend made a remix of a song, someone downloaded it, sold it, and reported his track for copyright infringement. Seeking advice.

So basically, I asked him for his story and here it is.
"Well I made a remix of Ellie Gouldings new track Burn two days after it came out. Uploaded onto youtube and sloudcloud and for a month not much happened. People enjoyed my remix and stuff. One day, this guy called "Alienator" downloaded my remix (I had have it up for free download) and uploaded onto CD Baby. CD Baby distributed the remix onto iTunes, Amazon and Spotify. It hit top10 in UK in that week on iTunes and was taken down a few days after its upload. I've contacted CD Baby and they have taken it off because of copyright of the original vocal sample (That is why I didn't sell it, only up on youtube). Now UMG claimed that my remix on youtube is copyright because Alienator "made the original remix" and just recently been taken off youtube."
. Unfortunately, his video was taken down so this is some other random channel that uploaded it.
We live in Australia if that helps at all. Any advice offered would be great and appreciated! Thanks a lot! smile.gif

QUOTE(Bjork @ Dec 29 2020, 07:57 AM) *
Sure she is involved in her songs, and in the early days I think some of the songs she did on her own
but most of her songs are co-writes with others, and lately mostly with "teams" so hard to know who does what
which is the norm with most "modern" so-called singer-songwriters

that said, Ellie had zero involvement in her biggest hits ie Love me like you do and Burn
and even Lights, that was a half-finished song where she just messed with the Lyrics but the core of the song ie the riff and the melody were done

Can you provide any instances of her or anyone involved in the song saying anything like that? Because this is the main thing I’ve seen mentioned about its creation on BBC’s website:

www dot bbc dot co dot uk/news/entertainment-arts-19276047

"It's going really well out there. Nobody expected Lights to be anywhere near number one. It's really old, I wrote it way before my first album came out in a hotel in Brighton. It's been on a really crazy journey."

"I mean I love it, obviously, I wrote it. You've got to love your own songs otherwise it defeats the object, but I can't explain it."
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Bjork
post Dec 29 2020, 10:58 AM
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^she wrote the lyrics, not the music x Lights
I saw a documentary once in which they were explaining it, she went to Brighton cos that's where the songwriters that had the song where located, they had the instrumental, with the riff which is the key part of the song, and then Ellie did the lyrics. The writers were the team behind Wannabe if I recall it correctly.

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NellyEverySundae
post Dec 31 2020, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE(Bjork @ Dec 29 2020, 06:57 AM) *
Sure she is involved in her songs, and in the early days I think some of the songs she did on her own
but most of her songs are co-writes with others, and lately mostly with "teams" so hard to know who does what
which is the norm with most "modern" so-called singer-songwriters

that said, Ellie had zero involvement in her biggest hits ie Love me like you do and Burn
and even Lights, that was a half-finished song where she just messed with the Lyrics but the core of the song ie the riff and the melody were done


I mean Taylor swift also co-wrote all the songs in Lover, Folkmore and Evermore. Still makes her a singer-songwriter? Guess it depends on the degree of contribution given by the other writers but Ellie spearheads most of her songs. And re lights, that happened a lot back in 2011/2012. Most Dr Luke songs were given to people as pre-made melodies and riffs, and singers (e.g. Kesha, Marina) would write on top of them - it wasn’t uncommon.
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HarryBorelli
post Jan 8 2021, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE(NellyEverySundae @ Dec 31 2020, 01:30 PM) *
I mean Taylor swift also co-wrote all the songs in Lover, Folkmore and Evermore. Still makes her a singer-songwriter? Guess it depends on the degree of contribution given by the other writers but Ellie spearheads most of her songs. And re lights, that happened a lot back in 2011/2012. Most Dr Luke songs were given to people as pre-made melodies and riffs, and singers (e.g. Kesha, Marina) would write on top of them - it wasn’t uncommon.

That was how it was done around that era for sure at least for lights (the song) that is.

I am positive she does still involvement in her songwriting process, whether it is as much as it was on her first album, I am not sure of. However, many singers nowadays work with teams to write the songs it doesn't mean they are not involved in the process. Personally, I can still hear Ellie's touch with the lyrics so that's why I am sure she still writes her stuff just maybe not in the same vein as her lights era?.

Yes, this is an old thread I'm bumping up but I just noticed it till now cos imma flop LOL.
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jsweetxe
post Jan 8 2021, 03:12 PM
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the untrue Beyoncé shade here needs to be put to rest!
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dannjohn
post Jan 8 2021, 04:43 PM
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If Ellie does something differently vocally... she would warrant a writing credit I believe?
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jsweetxe
post Jan 8 2021, 04:53 PM
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QUOTE(dannjohn @ Jan 8 2021, 04:43 PM) *
If Ellie does something differently vocally... she would warrant a writing credit I believe?

bingo.

A lot of people forget that a credit is given regardless of the work done on the song (well.. it should be) vocal arrangement is a big part of crafting a song, and although it isn't physically writing words on paper, it is contributing to the song using your own talents, therefore a credit is given.

This is where that vicious lie abt Beyoncé not writing but being credited came from. But this thread isn't about her, it just rubbed me the wrong way lol.

If the song was "whole" when it came to Ellie but she rearranged the vocals on it, she would've also altered vowels and wording for certain things in order to sing it better, therefore she gets credited.

Although like everyone else in the thread, I fully thought Ellie was someone who spearheaded her own music crafting? At least at the start?
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Frawdree
post Jan 8 2021, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE(jsweetxe @ Jan 8 2021, 05:53 PM) *
bingo.

A lot of people forget that a credit is given regardless of the work done on the song (well.. it should be) vocal arrangement is a big part of crafting a song, and although it isn't physically writing words on paper, it is contributing to the song using your own talents, therefore a credit is given.

If this is the case, then why wouldn’t she have done the same to earn writing credits on LMLYD? Do not all covers literally consist of an artist contributing to a song using their talents, therefore also deserving of a credit? I don’t buy your logic.


This post has been edited by Frawdree: Jan 8 2021, 06:10 PM
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Bjork
post Jan 9 2021, 10:02 AM
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same for me, doesn't make any sense
every singer would be credited in every song they sing no matter who wrote it


anyway even if working with teams, it's apparent in the lyrics that Ellie is heavily involved,
you can see it in songs like Army or Flux, there are lots of Ellie-nisms
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jsweetxe
post Jan 9 2021, 10:23 AM
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It doesn't really matter if you don't see my logic lol, that's just how it is.

But they have to actually change it, there were a few points in my post that were missed out. If an artist changes the way it is sung, as in rearranges it in other ways- adds in harmonies and new melodies and changes how the song flows, they get a credit. If they don't, they should- but some contracts don't have this in, and they instead have to make a substantial change to the song.

Let's take a look a recent incident where this happened; Little Mix's Woman Like Me, the demo for that leaked when it was still Jess Glynne's, they are very lyrically similar, except for a few changes, under their contract Syco didn't want to credit them, because it then splits the earnings further, however Little Mix did lyrically contribute, regardless of the words changed, so they got their "additional lyrics by" credit.

All sorts of contracts and producers can sometimes stop a singer being credited. Ariana Grande contributed a lot to My Everything, but she wasn't credited a lot of the time- then when transitioning to Dangerous Woman she scored a deal, so she had to be credited. There's a lot of details that go into a recording contract and how crediting works and then getting a publishing deal as well, it's too broad to speculate on- but in the case of Beyoncé it has been confirmed several times that she adds to the song even if she didn't primarily write everything.

In the case of Love Me Like You Do, Ellie was not the first singer considered for this. It more than likely was a finished product with a demo singer and then she sang on it and didn't a change a lot OR because it was a Max Martin song, she wasn't really going to get credit cause I imagine whatever label he's under has a solid contract w/several awkward publishing terms. That being said LMLYD is not Ellie's song, she just sang on it, so not the best example.

(Maybe at the time, she only gets credited for songs being released on her own album that are written and crafted for her own album)

Sorry for the essay lol but tl;dr contracts and publishing deals differ from person to person and label to label and sometimes are awkward to work around- there is so much work out there that is poorly credited because of label doings.


This post has been edited by jsweetxe: Jan 9 2021, 10:25 AM
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Frawdree
post Jan 9 2021, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE(jsweetxe @ Jan 9 2021, 10:23 AM) *
It doesn't really matter if you don't see my logic lol, that's just how it is.

...

In the case of Love Me Like You Do, Ellie was not the first singer considered for this. It more than likely was a finished product with a demo singer and then she sang on it and didn't a change a lot OR because it was a Max Martin song, she wasn't really going to get credit cause I imagine whatever label he's under has a solid contract w/several awkward publishing terms. That being said LMLYD is not Ellie's song, she just sang on it, so not the best example.

This sounds practically the same as Burn's situation, though? She wasn't the first singer considered. She didn't change anything lyric wise or really performance wise. So I find it weird how you can be like "That's how it is" and finish off your argument with "she just sang on it" as if that isn't the polar opposite of your previous argument of "A lot of people forget that a credit is given regardless of the work done on the song (well.. it should be) vocal arrangement is a big part of crafting a song, and although it isn't physically writing words on paper, it is contributing to the song using your own talents, therefore a credit is given.".
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HarryBorelli
post Jan 9 2021, 12:20 PM
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My guess regarding for LMLYD is it was formed around ellie's voice arrangement wise perhaps?
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Frawdree
post Jan 9 2021, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE(HarryBorelli @ Jan 9 2021, 12:20 PM) *
My guess regarding for LMLYD is it was formed around ellie's voice arrangement wise perhaps?

No, originally they thought of giving it to Demi before the film came along.

“ Ali and Ilya really started that song and then Max and I came in. I thought it would be great for Demi and then we had the meeting with Fifty Shades Of Grey and Max said it would work well with the scene we'd watched. So he took it, tweaked it, I wrote the lyric and there it was. Tove Lo also wrote on it. And that's the other thing, and Max has really been the leader of it, there's no ego. Even though we have to give a little bit of percentage away, none of us really cares about credits or anything like that.”

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jsweetxe
post Jan 9 2021, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE(Frawdree @ Jan 9 2021, 11:14 AM) *
This sounds practically the same as Burn's situation, though? She wasn't the first singer considered. She didn't change anything lyric wise or really performance wise. So I find it weird how you can be like "That's how it is" and finish off your argument with "she just sang on it" as if that isn't the polar opposite of your previous argument of "A lot of people forget that a credit is given regardless of the work done on the song (well.. it should be) vocal arrangement is a big part of crafting a song, and although it isn't physically writing words on paper, it is contributing to the song using your own talents, therefore a credit is given.".


It's not.

Burn was written by Ryan Tedder his OneRepublic bandmate, then Ellie recorded her vocal- then it was left for a while. So I'm guessing Leona's team got ahold of it in that time, but then didn't use it, so then Greg Kurstin and Ellie got ahold of it again and used it.

That's different to Max Martin and Co. writing a song intended for Demi Lovato and then getting Ellie on it.

AAAAAND like I said, there's a myriad of different things that could play a part in song credits. A singer SHOULD get credit if they change anything, doesn't mean they always do, Ellie wasn't that big back then, she probably didn't have a deal that was strong enough to get her credit on such a massive song. Who knows. Again speculation, but based upon the huge success of Burn + the album, said deal was probably changed for Delirium, so that she was the main writer and received credit regardless.


My main issue with this thread was the Beyoncé slander like I said, and my main point was to just let you guys know that it isn't so black and white when it comes to writing, vocals and being credited.


This post has been edited by jsweetxe: Jan 9 2021, 01:13 PM
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Frawdree
post Jan 9 2021, 01:40 PM
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QUOTE(jsweetxe @ Jan 9 2021, 01:11 PM) *
It's not.

Burn was written by Ryan Tedder his OneRepublic bandmate, then Ellie recorded her vocal- then it was left for a while. So I'm guessing Leona's team got ahold of it in that time, but then didn't use it, so then Greg Kurstin and Ellie got ahold of it again and used it.

That's different to Max Martin and Co. writing a song intended for Demi Lovato and then getting Ellie on it.

AAAAAND like I said, there's a myriad of different things that could play a part in song credits. A singer SHOULD get credit if they change anything, doesn't mean they always do, Ellie wasn't that big back then, she probably didn't have a deal that was strong enough to get her credit on such a massive song. Who knows. Again speculation, but based upon the huge success of Burn + the album, said deal was probably changed for Delirium, so that she was the main writer and received credit regardless.
My main issue with this thread was the Beyoncé slander like I said, and my main point was to just let you guys know that it isn't so black and white when it comes to writing, vocals and being credited.

No, Leona recorded it first and there’s zero evidence saying otherwise. It was originally intended for her on the 2012 album Glassheart, but was scrapped. www dot irishexaminer dot com/lifestyle/arid-30616819.html

If Ellie wasn’t big enough 6 years ago to wrangle her name onto a Max Martin song’s credits (despite being big enough to be...the singer on that and multiple film soundtracks before, including 2014’s Divergent) then how was she big enough to get her name onto a Ryan Tedder song’s credits in 2013?

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