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> r/wallstreetbets and shorting
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Iz 💀
post Jan 28 2021, 05:42 AM
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I think this is all very funny.

Short version: a bunch of redditors (from a very active subreddit - r/wallstreetbets) have all invested in Gamestop and have caused hedge funds overstretched on shorting to potentially go bankrupt.

Long version: because of the arbitrariness of such a move and the ability of ordinary people to mobilise against the billionaires the concept of the stock market itself might be called into question. This has made me learn what shorting (and other various things about the stock market) actually is - investors betting against stocks in order to make money by borrowing, selling high and buying low to give back. I will admit I don't have the greatest grasp of economics, but the stock market being exposed is rather interesting.

(not that it's quite as simple as 'they got bailed out in 2008, so eat the rich by creating nouveau riche' but that's a baseline level of feeling that I'm willing to populate with more nuance, plus I'm interested to see what the repercussions will be for both the American market and other markets and if potentially this idea of hedge funds making themselves richer by manipulating numbers at the right time will be over)
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Dircadirca
post Jan 28 2021, 07:30 AM
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Tremendously funny. Not just because seeing a hack profit scheme be dug up by reddit is hilarious, but because so much dodgy stuff happens like this because it goes unchecked and can't be explained to the masses in an invigorating way. The absurdity of this revolving around Gamestop shares in 2021 just compels interest and now it's a lot more well known.
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Botchia
post Jan 28 2021, 10:35 AM
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This and the Bernie memes have been the best thing about 2021 so far.
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Klumzee
post Jan 28 2021, 10:52 AM
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This is so far and away from my understanding laugh.gif From what I get it's super rich people have been getting away with manipulating the stock market for their own good, now a bunch of Redditers have shown they can have the same impact by acting en masse and that's causing a shock in the stock market/economy world.

It's one of those where I wonder, should I know more about this? But on the other hand it feels so irrelevant to my life and the life of those around me that is it something worth my time to try and get to know better?

Also the trend of average Joe's (people I know included) starting to buy small stocks and ride the wave is another discussion, is it gambling but in a more acceptable 'Wall Street fantasy' format?
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Iz 💀
post Jan 28 2021, 11:11 AM
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QUOTE(Klumzee Iman @ Jan 28 2021, 10:52 AM) *
This is so far and away from my understanding laugh.gif From what I get it's super rich people have been getting away with manipulating the stock market for their own good, now a bunch of Redditers have shown they can have the same impact by acting en masse and that's causing a shock in the stock market/economy world.

It's one of those where I wonder, should I know more about this? But on the other hand it feels so irrelevant to my life and the life of those around me that is it something worth my time to try and get to know better?

Also the trend of average Joe's (people I know included) starting to buy small stocks and ride the wave is another discussion, is it gambling but in a more acceptable 'Wall Street fantasy' format?


Basically, yes. I tend to keep my distance from this whole idea of stock market gambling, but the wider world of investing is something I'm always keen to learn more about as it may be the case that I'd want to make (safe, diversified, sober) investments in the future.

It's as relevant as you want any other political things to be, as these super rich hedge funds are the ones who like to use their rather unfairly gotten wealth to influence political policy and the economic system around them and if nothing else, it's deeply satisfying knowing that their tricks are being repelled - especially as the whole idea of shorting is making huge amounts of money off a business going bankrupt, profiting off other people's misery etc.
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Suedehead2
post Jan 28 2021, 03:14 PM
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While it is indeed wonderful to see these hedge funds getting their fingers burnt (I've been railing against their form of capitalism for years), it should not be ignored that GameStop is now massively over-valued. The share price will inevitably go down, probably very sharply. That could leave a lot of people who are a long way from being super-rich facing heavy losses.
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Iz 💀
post Jan 28 2021, 03:58 PM
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I believe many of the original members of the public who went in on this, the ones that can afford to at least, are adopting a 'no sell' policy to ensure the price goes up anyway so I'm not sure they mind - though I've seen a number of stories of people who need it cashing out profits while they can which is gratifying.

The broker app they were primarily using, Robinhood, has now restricted ~certain stocks~ from being bought. Ironic (and a clear indication of who they serve).

psa: in case I wasn't clear, this is fun to watch from the sidelines, but I have no intention of getting involved and I don't recommend it.
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NoBrasNoPanties
post Jan 28 2021, 04:07 PM
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"Robinhood" laugh.gif
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post Jan 28 2021, 04:46 PM
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It's honestly so good laugh.gif Hedge funds/brokers have been doing this sort of stuff for years and now that ordinary people are doing it they are suddenly outraged. It's quite shocking the rules/regulations around it. Hedge funds can borrow over 100% of shares in a company - basically shares that don't actually exist. I hope this leads to better regulation but given it's happening in the US that's unlikely and they will likely introduce legislation to make it harder/impossible for ordinary people to do something like this again.

On the plus side I've seen a lot of people make good profits and put the money to good use. One guy bought a bunch of video game consoles/games and donated them to a children's hospital.
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post Jan 28 2021, 05:02 PM
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While it's good to see Wall Streeters get their pants pulled down a little bit, it shouldn't be forgotten now that the wallstreet sub forum on Reddit is full of Bitcoin nerds. Similar to Iz loads of people have and will be about to get burned as they know nothing about trading and believe the hype.

What's interesting is its shown Nasdaq right up, crying that they need the markets to stop so they can reasses their trades oblivious to the fact they caused the 2008 crash. But it also seems that Wall Street have fought back a little bit and are crashing Nokia/AMC etc. shares to distract people from Gamestop. While it's fun to watch from the sidelines and see how it all plays out, similar to Bitcoin, do not get involved.
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TheSnake
post Jan 28 2021, 10:49 PM
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Yes it's quite an extraordinary story, sadly Gamestop is still a struggling company though sad.gif

At least the Robinhood event made members of both US political parties agree on something...perhaps Biden's call for unity isn't just a hopeful dream.

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Doctor Blind
post Jan 28 2021, 10:59 PM
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It's obviously great to watch from the sidelines- and so amusing to see everyone getting upset about 'the wrong people manipulating the market'

Of course BlackRock had shares in the company so may have made gains of $2.4 billion, so not everyone is getting their just deserts. Mainly though the people getting screwed are the absolute lowest of the low who profit from betting against companies. Haha, good on WallStBets!!
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J00prstar
post Jan 28 2021, 11:05 PM
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Its a bit over my head but if you can make money from it I'm there tbh
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Doctor Blind
post Jan 28 2021, 11:17 PM
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QUOTE(J00prstar @ Jan 28 2021, 11:05 PM) *
Its a bit over my head but if you can make money from it I'm there tbh


Short selling is when an investor ‘borrows’ a stock, sells it, and then at some later time buys the stock back to return it to the person they borrowed it from. They are betting that the stocks they have sold will drop in price (so the company will devalue) so that when they buy it back at some later time to ‘return’ it they have made a profit. But the amusing thing is that WallStBets piled in to drive the price up, meaning that they now had to buy back these borrowed shares quickly to prevent huge losses, which in turn drives the price up even faster forcing more short sellers to buy back and the price up even more.

Chaos. laugh.gif
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Bré
post Jan 28 2021, 11:29 PM
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This whole situation has brought back some long gone memories of A-Level Economics... laugh.gif
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Doctor Blind
post Jan 28 2021, 11:31 PM
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What is a 'free market'?

It's free when it works in favour of the obscenely wealthy hedge funds - otherwise the state needs to step in and stop this nonsense. tongue.gif
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TheSnake
post Jan 28 2021, 11:37 PM
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The share price for Gamestop is going down now, I wonder did many of those redditors sell their shares in Gamestop before it started going down?
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Doctor Blind
post Jan 28 2021, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE(ElevenSnake @ Jan 28 2021, 11:37 PM) *
The share price for Gamestop is going down now, I wonder did many of those redditors sell their shares in Gamestop before it started going down?


They may be the ones holding when the price collapses - what gets me is that this gets loads of outcry and intervention, whereas it is perfectly fine for hedge funds to co-ordinate and use their vast capital to short sell huge amounts of shares - watch the price collapse as other shareholders in the company get out, then buy everything back when the price hits a low and pocket the profit. Absolute lowlifes IMO.

Apologies if anyone here does that, but to be absolutely honest with you - you must be morally bankrupt.
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Doctor Blind
post Jan 29 2021, 08:42 AM
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They don't like it up 'em... biggrin.gif



rotf.gif
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Suedehead2
post Jan 29 2021, 09:39 AM
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jan 28 2021, 11:17 PM) *
Short selling is when an investor ‘borrows’ a stock, sells it, and then at some later time buys the stock back to return it to the person they borrowed it from. They are betting that the stocks they have sold will drop in price (so the company will devalue) so that when they buy it back at some later time to ‘return’ it they have made a profit. But the amusing thing is that WallStBets piled in to drive the price up, meaning that they now had to buy back these borrowed shares quickly to prevent huge losses, which in turn drives the price up even faster forcing more short sellers to buy back and the price up even more.

Chaos. laugh.gif

Yes, the gist of it is that these people are agreeing to sell shares they don't actually own. However, because of the huge sums involved. their betting on an outcome helps to make that outcome much more likely. That, and the fact that it is basically willing a company to fail, is what makes it so morally wrong.
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