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awardinary
post Feb 10 2021, 12:45 PM
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This is meant to be a helpful tool for all chart music lovers like myself, but I always have found the website to be very temperamental, spammed with advertisements and broken links.

I don’t know why there isn’t an official app that ones can use to do searches from, that would be very welcomed indeed.

As many know I’m hosting a quiz on this forum right now, and I need album chart data which I should be able to find on the OCC website, but whenever I locate the artist from their database and try to click on a link to the artist’s albums, the link just reloads the artist’s page and doesn’t display the data I need. I’ve tried using various internet browsers and the same result. sad.gif

Is there another resource available for checking UK chart data specifically for albums and chart peaks and runs?

Many thanks.
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dan::G
post Feb 10 2021, 01:00 PM
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I find that for whatever reason, the site is less buggy on Google Chrome than Safari, chart runs and pages actually load properly every time you want them to. not sure if that helps.

it’s rather annoying for me cos I don’t like Chrome as a web browser.
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Frenchie
post Feb 10 2021, 01:06 PM
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This has annoyed me for so long.

90% of the time the pages don't load properly and the ads are crazy and cover most of the page.

Also found that when I try and look at the detailed chart info for individual songs the pages reload.

You'd think they'd be able to have a good website. An app would be amazing.
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Suedehead2
post Feb 10 2021, 06:02 PM
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Yes, I've had all those issues as well. As you can imagine, I use the site regularly when compiling my weekly commentary. I've recently invested in a more powerful PC which is an improvement but its performance is often woeful. It takes ages to load all the adverts which can mean you think you are clicking on a link but end up clicking on the advert instead. And, as observed already, on a laptop the adverts cover the whole of the page so you have to scroll down to find anything.

The content is pretty good although there are some inconsistencies (e.g. Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark have some entries listed under OMD) but the performance and usability are terrible.
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benj
post Feb 10 2021, 06:04 PM
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I recommend Brave for viewing the OCC website. It blocks ads but still pays the website (and pays you too!)
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Houdini
post Feb 10 2021, 06:06 PM
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The website is a lot easier to browse on a phone than on a computer/laptop. Webpages take a lot longer to load on a computer and it feels like the pop-up adverts takeover everything.
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jimwatts
post Feb 10 2021, 06:34 PM
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Just to check, there are two Singles/Albums toggles on each of the artist pages, are you using the second one (immediately above the list of singles)? That should change it to a list of albums. Whereas the first toggle is only for the summary numbers (of UK Number 1s, UK Top 10s, etc.) for either singles or albums as selected. The two toggles are independent of each other, which has confused me sometimes.

Otherwise agree with what other have said about browsers, my Android phone or Google Chrome on a laptop work best for me.
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Suedehead2
post Feb 10 2021, 06:43 PM
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QUOTE(jimwatts @ Feb 10 2021, 06:34 PM) *
Just to check, there are two Singles/Albums toggles on each of the artist pages, are you using the second one (immediately above the list of singles)? That should change it to a list of albums. Whereas the first toggle is only for the summary numbers (of UK Number 1s, UK Top 10s, etc.) for either singles or albums as selected. The two toggles are independent of each other, which has confused me sometimes.

Otherwise agree with what other have said about browsers, my Android phone or Google Chrome on a laptop work best for me.

The second one (that should change to a list of albums) is the one that doesn't always work. I agree that it would make more sense for the summary and the lists to be linked on one tab.
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awardinary
post Feb 10 2021, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE(benj @ Feb 10 2021, 06:04 PM) *
I recommend Brave for viewing the OCC website. It blocks ads but still pays the website (and pays you too!)

Thanks for that tip, I will investigate this as an option! smile.gif
QUOTE(jimwatts @ Feb 10 2021, 06:34 PM) *
Just to check, there are two Singles/Albums toggles on each of the artist pages, are you using the second one (immediately above the list of singles)? That should change it to a list of albums. Whereas the first toggle is only for the summary numbers (of UK Number 1s, UK Top 10s, etc.) for either singles or albums as selected. The two toggles are independent of each other, which has confused me sometimes.

Otherwise agree with what other have said about browsers, my Android phone or Google Chrome on a laptop work best for me.

Yeah I’m aware that there’s two options, but I’ve found whilst using Safari on my iPad (which I do have an Adblocker activated), as well as Crome (which doesn’t block adds) both seem to just reload the page you are already on when you click on links, I’ve tried this with both of the Album links you mentioned, and I don’t get to view the data I know exists there.

The most annoying part is when you try to access historical charts and you select the date and press enter then nothing happens, and this is a frequent bug in the website despite using different browsers.
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Bjork
post Feb 10 2021, 08:12 PM
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^thats true, happens all the time, you select a date, click, 90% of the time it doesn't work

personally whats worst is the artists section, many are incomplete, with many errors and omissions
you search for Drake and half his entries are missing but listed separately as Drake ft this, Drake ft that etc
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Liam.k.
post Feb 11 2021, 04:27 AM
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The issue of the page just reloading when you click the link to an artists' album history is one I've experienced a few times, but it's not very often and it soon works if you just give it a few seconds. I can't say I've had any other similar issues on the site.

I agree with Bjork that the biggest issue is some artist histories are slightly incomplete, like his example of certain collaborations being missed, albums being listed twice due to a slight difference in title (one title might include 'the', the other omits it) or, the one that bugs me a lot, some albums are split between their pre-1994 chart run and post-1994 chart run.
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Bjork
post Feb 11 2021, 09:42 AM
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for instance the other day I was looking at 21 Savage discography
under his main discography 3 tracks are missing
with Mr Right Now only listed under 21 Savage/Metro Boomin/Drake but not under 21 Savage and not under 21 Savage & Metro Boomin,
and actually the correct credit should be 21 Savage & Metro Boomin ft Drake
same with Rich N**a S**t, which only appears as 21 Savage/Metro Boomin/Young Thug

and then Sneaking' is missing on 21 Savage discography, it was released as Drake ft 21 Savage but should be in 21 Savage's discography too
but funnily it's also missing from Drake'sa discography and only found separately as Drake ft 21 Savage.

in short, a mess biggrin.gif
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Suedehead2
post Feb 11 2021, 02:18 PM
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The A feat B situation is horribly inconsistent. Sometimes that song can be found under both A and B, while other times it isn't even listed in A's individual page. As a chart enthusiast and with a decent knowledge of how databases work, I'd love to go there with a proper database administrator and get it sorted out but I doubt the OCC would want to pay for it.
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Bré
post Feb 11 2021, 02:50 PM
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It also doesn't help that the website seems to somewhat arbitrarily abbreviate or completely omit artist credits on collaborations seemingly just to save space. I get it for the presentation of individual charts but there's no reason for them to not include the full credits for database purposes.

To use a recent example, 'Lemonade' has always been credited on the site to 'Internet Money/Gunna/Toliver' - they seem to have been clever enough to still include it on Don Toliver's chart history page despite his name being abbreviated, but it is missing from NAV's chart history despite him unambiguously being credited on the song, simply because his name was omitted to save space. (Ironically despite his name being the shortest of the 4 artists laugh.gif)
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Mangø
post Feb 11 2021, 03:01 PM
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Someone needs to bring this thread to their attention!
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Suedehead2
post Feb 11 2021, 04:29 PM
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QUOTE(Bré @ Feb 11 2021, 02:50 PM) *
It also doesn't help that the website seems to somewhat arbitrarily abbreviate or completely omit artist credits on collaborations seemingly just to save space. I get it for the presentation of individual charts but there's no reason for them to not include the full credits for database purposes.

To use a recent example, 'Lemonade' has always been credited on the site to 'Internet Money/Gunna/Toliver' - they seem to have been clever enough to still include it on Don Toliver's chart history page despite his name being abbreviated, but it is missing from NAV's chart history despite him unambiguously being credited on the song, simply because his name was omitted to save space. (Ironically despite his name being the shortest of the 4 artists laugh.gif)

The database should have a credit attached to each release and then a separate one-to-many relationship for each individual act credited. That still leaves some decisions to be made - for example, do you include Simon and Garfunkel songs in Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel's individual lists? - but its the logical way of organising it. Of course, there is still the issue of singles that get new acts added part way through the chart run.
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Colm
post Feb 11 2021, 09:00 PM
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I find that singles charts come up quickly but clicking on the album button does absolutely nothing.
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chartjack2
post Feb 11 2021, 09:05 PM
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Simon & Garfunkel are very much a distinct act, not the same as “Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel”
I would always say if there was an album credited to a specific act from which the single came from, then that act should be credited.
Controversially, I would count “Wings” as a distinct act from “Paul McCartney” but no one agrees with me haha
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Suedehead2
post Feb 11 2021, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE(chartjack2 @ Feb 11 2021, 09:05 PM) *
Simon & Garfunkel are very much a distinct act, not the same as “Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel”
I would always say if there was an album credited to a specific act from which the single came from, then that act should be credited.
Controversially, I would count “Wings” as a distinct act from “Paul McCartney” but no one agrees with me haha

That's where it gets difficult laugh.gif In the sense that some of McCartney's solo material was solo in the strictest sense, he and Wings are separate acts. However, to confuse matters, some Wings releases were credited to Paul McCartney & Wings. There is no simple rule elating to credits which means having to examine each case individually.
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kingofskiffle
post Feb 11 2021, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE(Bré @ Feb 11 2021, 02:50 PM) *
It also doesn't help that the website seems to somewhat arbitrarily abbreviate or completely omit artist credits on collaborations seemingly just to save space. I get it for the presentation of individual charts but there's no reason for them to not include the full credits for database purposes.

To use a recent example, 'Lemonade' has always been credited on the site to 'Internet Money/Gunna/Toliver' - they seem to have been clever enough to still include it on Don Toliver's chart history page despite his name being abbreviated, but it is missing from NAV's chart history despite him unambiguously being credited on the song, simply because his name was omitted to save space. (Ironically despite his name being the shortest of the 4 artists laugh.gif)


I see the weekly OCC CSV files sent to ChartsPlus and all of these are the same within that. As far as I understand it the OCC have one central database of titles, artists cat numbers, etc called the Product Database. This rests with Millwood Brown (or whatever name they now have) and contains everything issued since Feb 1994 and a good deal before (the caveat here is that ‘everything’ means everything sent to them to be chart eligible). When those details are entered, they go into a system that produces CSV files from a computer. A computer produced in 1994 (I would guess) that limits the character output. This situation is not unique by the way. Most systems are old systems using technology created at a point in time as database migration takes a while and for something like the OCC they can;t afford a database mess. So the files are CSV and so character limited (We don’t get ‘ marks for example). Those CSV files that we get have the exact same information that goes onto the website. It’s an automated process (as I understand it). Thus the CSV limits titles to a character count and thus so does the website.

As to the other point about missing details or errors... Some of that may be my fault. Long time ago the OCC contacted ChartsPlus and wanted to see how we where creating the magazine. I hold a copy of the database (it’s actually my own database) that is used for creating it (other copies exist) and so I created a copy to go to them. I should have locked it to stop database extraction because if you go back to the OCC charts for, say 1985, you will find the positions 76-100 without labels. Because my typed data did not have them at that point. I can;t prove they got the data from me, but I can state that that would explain the issues.

As to other points, if you want to navigate through weekly charts you just need to crack the system.

The main singles chart has this as a web URL

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singl.../20210129/7501/

The date is always of the form yyyymmdd and any date will provide the chart for that week. Thus if you want the chart for 1 Jan 1989, you type 19890101 in place of the date and the chart appears. I have a button in the database that finds the OCC Web chart for the chart I have on screen - it basically formats the date to yyyymmdd and adds the start and end of the link.

The histories section is very odd and buying a book is currently the best way to see the histories properly (The Graham Betts books being the most recent set.). The Polyhex website is good for singles history, but not for albums as he does not include the chart runs.

I’m always happy to help with queries of this sort if people do want a specific artists history - but the main OCC website should be significantly better than it is. (Oh and the way round the adverts? - adblocker and disabling cookies. When the screen comes up to say Agree or Disagree I always press Agree to Selected not agree to all. Limits the things it will load. )
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