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> Voting Habits & Methods, Have you ever changed the way you vote?
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awardinary
post Apr 7 2021, 07:03 PM
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Sorry to make yet another thread in as many days, but something currently being discussed within the BJSC 134 Green Room at the moment caused me to explore this idea further. The concept is, have you ever changed your voting habits based on any of the following scenarios?

Voting only for your favourite members?

Perhaps the most commonplace habit is to vote for those who you are closest to or share the most similar music tastes. Itís not necessarily a bad thing, but it could blind you to some poor quality entries from time to time.

Voting for neighbouring nations on the world map?

We are all vaguely familiar with the world map devised by Brť and located here. But have you ever voted with the sole intention of only awarding those participating nations which border your nation or come close to it (perhaps within the same continent)?

Voting only for nations who were allocated to your Semi-final?

As Klumzee points out below, sometimes it can be possible to prefer only the songs that youíve shared a Semi final with due to familiarity. I hadnít considered this before, but it does seem plausible that you could unknowingly vote for your favourite Semi-final qualifiers when the final comes around and completely overlook the other Semi final.

Tactical voting to give your entry a better chance?

Arguably the most controversial method of voting, and with no guarantee of success, but perhaps itís been your habit in the past to vote for the lesser favoured nations, perhaps those not tipped to win, in order to give your own entry better chance of doing well?

Charitable voting?

I guess I would consider this being when a new nation enters BJSC and are struggling to pick up any points, or when a regularly underperforming nation who often doesnít qualify in a Semi final gets some charitable points for their entry, perhaps out of a feeling of guilt on the part of the voter.

Are there any other ways to vote within BJSC?

For me personally, Iíve always tended to vote based on the songs and my own music tastes. I will often gravitate toward the same nations most months because I usually expect them to send something I would like, but it doesnít mean I wonít ever consider pointing other nations too if they sent a song that I liked. Competition for points is very high, and so are the standards being set each month, so itís never an easy decision who to award points to, but I try to vote fairly, and I donít adopt any tactics for personal gain.

Share your voting methods, past and present, and any observations youíve found from doing this.


This post has been edited by awardinary: Apr 7 2021, 08:03 PM
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Cameron
post Apr 7 2021, 07:41 PM
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It is no secret that my votes are always very PopBloc heavy - I use BJSC to find songs that are easy to listen to and make me feel all the emotions. I definitely tend to favour the likes of Ultraviolenceland, United States Of Jack, Ojnoj, New Lexico, Farc, Hendinia and Bhangra because of our similarities in musical style. Although, sometimes I do find songs a bit hit and miss which is why sometimes they dip to low in my rankings (NOT Lex's analysis of me 'low pointing favourites'...)

Although, usually I rank on a spreadsheet on google drive and give ratings out of 10. Entries that could get my 18 are usually ranked 11 so I can relisten and whittle them down.
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Klumzee
post Apr 7 2021, 07:41 PM
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I was proven in that contest a few months back that I do favour the semi final I come from massively. It's something I've been conscious of recently. Familiarity just really helps me and hearing a song once or twice doesn't compare to four or five times. I think the best thing to combat it would be to listen to both semi finals in the first week but it's a lot of new music to consume in a short space of time so I think it might just be a trend I accept I do! Doesn't benefit any one nation in particular.

I'm sure I have countries I act more favourably towards too, it's generally cause I like their songs on the whole, and I may make more effort if I hear a song and I'm not sure on it at first because I probably will like it with a few more listens. The opposite is a country that I don't usually vote for and a hear a song I don't click with first time, I'm not likely to put the same effort in.

At the end of the day I do vote for my favourite songs at that moment in time, but the way they become my favourites does vary a bit.

Also I'm completely unaware of who borders me on that world map. I don't think it gets used anymore as we don't talk about it!
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awardinary
post Apr 7 2021, 08:04 PM
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Thatís a good point Klumzee, Iíve added it to the OP. I guess that is a habit ones can get into and I could be guilty of that on occasion too. Thatís why I try where itís possible to join in both listening sessions so I can get the full flavour of the contest. It also helps when making predictions later on. wink.gif
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King Rollo
post Apr 7 2021, 08:22 PM
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I vote purely on the quality of each song. If I end up giving points to the same countries, it's because they consistently enter music that I like. I suppose if I've settled on my top 13 for my final vote and there are 4 songs of the same standard vying for my 2pts and 1pt, I'm more likely to give those mealworm points to countries that often give points to my entries.
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PeteFromLeeds
post Apr 7 2021, 08:52 PM
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I don't think I have any particular 'favourite countries' that I consistently point, as is shown by how quickly my Rolling Chart turns over. I may subliminally do 'charitable voting' but mainly in the sense that if I prefer Song A to Song B but I'd rather see Song B in the final then I may give the second song more points. And it's been shown that I have been known to heavily favour my own semi although that's not deliberate either!
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gooddelta
post Apr 7 2021, 08:59 PM
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I rate everything out of 10 (to 0.25 increments) and then rank them. However if, for example, there are a few songs with the same rating, I tend to give higher points to the new discoveries over the maybe less inspired entries (however I would never go as far as snubbing a track I love).

I would never tactically vote or give a charitable vote - although itís always nice to be able to reward a nation I've not often pointed based on the quality of their entry.

It does seem like I fall under the semi bias a lot of the time too however, though I have no idea why because I always listen to both semis at the same time. A lot of the time I think itís just a coincidence while other times a lot of songs I love in the opposite semi seem to DNQ (maybe because I couldnít support them and help them over the line magic.gif) hence my votes seem to favour my own semi more.
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Quarantilas
post Apr 7 2021, 09:46 PM
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I vote by a live ranking system. I tend to listen in running order and start a ranking from the second track onwards, then every subsequent track gets placed somewhere in the ranking. I tend to use 3 lines to rank. The "I MUST vote for this" line, the "Back up" line if line 1 is too short this month to hit 10/15 and the "ew no" line. Only in absolute disasters will I pick from the front end of the third line, thankfully I can't remember the last time this was necessary. Then I use the live rank to create the points. Sometimes, but only maybe once or twice a year, I will deviate from the live rank to gift a token 1 pointer to someone I wouldn't usually point if they've actually entered something I found really good but not quite like amazing enough to hit the upper echelons of my points but so good that it was like 11th/16th or 12th/17th. So the song it displaces is on the same level anyway so its like a fine tuning of the rank to show respect to something I rather enjoyed and wasn't expecting to.


I notice a lot of the same names appearing where we have overlapping music tastes but I have no qualms snubbing FSR Ashmaynia or TinnAshFroze. I think I do some unintentional neighbourly voting but only because Hendinia and Numayania are two of my neighbours and we have overlapping taste. I have such a crap short term memory that I have already forgotten who I voted for in the semis when I do the finals so I have no idea if I favour my semi or not because I can't mind if they were in my semi or not.


I do tend to rate unexpected delights highly, and I have no qualms 18 pointing something I already love if its the best of the tracks. The fact that I am ADD defo factors into my votes because I will skip tracks that bore me but my brain will also just tune out tracks that don't catch my attention. This tends to mean I have a low tolerance for long songs - especially the ones that have like a 8 week build to nothing of interest or often nothing at all. If your song aint going anywhere fast I will skip ahead and if its still dull as shit like 3 mins in then we are done, its skipped and you are stone cold last in the ranking. I don't mind songs that are long for a purpose - Believe Again is perfection - but most just feel long for the sake of being long.


Not into tactical or charitable voting at all. Everything stands on its own merits.


Quite enjoy my live ranking system that has been fine tuned over like a decade of participating. Ive tried some other ways but this the one I keep returning to and have stuck with for the absolute longest.
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Jade
post Apr 7 2021, 09:49 PM
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I have an open mind towards everything and usually listen to both semis ahead of the final too.

There are clear overlaps in taste but even Persephonia don't have a 100% record kink.gif
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JosephStyles
post Apr 7 2021, 10:36 PM
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I also use a live ranking system - I listen from start to finish and rank every song as I go. I've got 5 categories - YES, MAYBE, NO, NEVER and WHO KNOWS - the latter two I rarely use but they're for the especially awful and songs that I truly have no clue how to rank, respectively laugh.gif My votes are easy to grab from that and I often pay little attention to the country names as I go along, so I don't ever vote tactically or based on members. Quite honestly, as far as the world map goes, I've not looked at that in years kink.gif

As for semi finals, I often end up preferring the entries from one semi over another, but it's not necessarily the one I'm in. This means the final listenthrough tends to be either amazing or terrible based on the qualifiers from the opposite semi laugh.gif I just vote for what I like and there's little more to it! Always my top 10 / 15 songs with no strings attached, inspired or not, discovery or not (last month I gave my 18 to a song I've known for months over one of my favourite discoveries in the past couple of years, because at the end of the day, I still prefer my 18 pointer and it's not the sender's fault that I knew it already).

Naturally, I gravitate more towards pop entries which is just how my taste skews. I hear most entries only once, so if your song's a grower, my apologies kink.gif as for long songs, Phil has hit the nail on the head for my approach too - if it's not catching my attention within a few minutes, I skip ahead to see if it kicks it up a gear. A song has to justify its length for me, and so few songs over 5 minutes tend to do that. Perhaps an indicator of my general attention span laugh.gif
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Iz 💀
post Apr 7 2021, 11:38 PM
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I try and listen to every song, as many as I can, in the first week to limit the bias shown to my semi. I then rank the semi after one listenthrough and identify the songs that I'm not keen on and don't give me the hint that they'd grow on me either, and put them aside.

Beyond that I do have a definite likes and maybes area of my rank but I'll listen to the rest again a few more times depending on time and how happy I am with my initial order until I think growers are done and I can understand the context of my favourites, more times for those at the top (because it's more enjoyable) and finish off with either a top-down ordering listen or a reverse listen (depending my mood) to finalise the order. In that last listen I may only listen to bits and pieces of the songs to catch their best parts to help me rank. Not opposed to drastically changing a song's position at the last minute, that's always quite fun too. If both songs are on the same level I'll normally give the advantage to the more charismatic entry, the more unusual entry. If there's something I already know (well) I try to avoid giving it top marks but occasionally that rule can break.

I only have a few countries that normally end up consistently in my points, like Trifoski or Terra Avium, I try and not look at who's sent an entry until at least a track has started playing and I'm curious about who sent it but I always have different countries in my votes and love being able to point those I haven't for ages. Though that's not to say I vote against my tastes, because what would the point of that be? It's nice when people who haven't had much success get success but that won't feel real if we're gifting them points. For the same reason I don't tactical vote, as much as I'd love to do well and reach the final every time, I'm in this to show off my favourite songs to an audience who will listen to them, not for personal glory.
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jakewild
post Apr 8 2021, 12:01 AM
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I'd say chris is almost always exclusively in my points purely because we have a pretty much 100% rate music compatibility

I've shot myself in the foot a load of times in finals where I've been predicted to win. i remember one where there were 2 of us (can't remember the country) as joint favs and I gave them my 12/18 whatever the system was at the time because if a songs good it's good and I won't do tactics just to win. that's gross.


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Chez Wombat
post Apr 8 2021, 12:59 AM
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I think when you've been here so long, you know who is closer to your taste in general and make joke #votingblocs with various members so I think most of us would have that unconscious bias, however small. For me, I know the likes of Persephonia, Jadakissnia, Fljotavik, Skall etc. will usually be on the same wavelength as me so I sometimes find myself making more of an effort to connect with or looking forward to their entries, but I do generally have a quite diverse music taste so that is honestly as far as it goes. While indie/experimental music is more my thing, I can really appreciate some infectious, well-produced pop entries too. I've pointed most countries that take part currently at least a handful of times which I think confirms I'm doing alright x

I do only listen to my semi, but I just don't really have the time to listen to both, also it's a little bit too much new music to consume in one week and I want to have a good shot of some songs staying in my memory. It does allow songs from that semi to grow a bit more which can disadvantage the other one, but I do ensure that the songs in the final from the other semi that I feel need another listen do before I vote. In practice, I usually have a fair few from each.

The only time I kind of tactically vote is when I have two songs fighting for a slot, one that's very unique looks at risk of others not getting it and one that's getting widely tipped as a winner and hype from everywhere, I would go with the former, likewise one that sounds very unique and daring against one that sounds quite conventional. Bear in mind this is usually just the difference between 7 and 6 points and it never makes a major difference. I'd never elevate a song purely because I want it to win/qualify if I don't like it enough and I'd never take the country into account because...why the hell would you lol. With charitable, I can't really say I do, but I sometimes get spurred on by a song that I like but is getting loads of hate on plug or something (Katie Dey's Darkness is a recent example), I guess it just activates my troll mode x

With regards to the BJSC Map, I'm claiming Mezidinia x
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ITz Cody
post Apr 8 2021, 01:33 AM
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QUOTE(Chez Wombat @ Apr 7 2021, 05:59 PM) *
With charitable, I can't really say I do, but I sometimes get spurred on by a song that I like but is getting loads of hate on plug or something (Katie Dey's Darkness is a recent example), I guess it just activates my troll mode x
didn't your single vote prevent what could have been the very first and only null-pointer in a BJSC final?

own it i guess x
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Iz 💀
post Apr 8 2021, 01:45 AM
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QUOTE(Chez Wombat @ Apr 8 2021, 12:59 AM) *
(Katie Dey's Darkness is a recent example)


A crime of taste that it was even getting that much hate in the first place, that song is the pinnacle of recent bedroom blog pop (and her in general as well) and an entry I'm proud to have reached the final with.

(I do the same thing a little, anything that BJSC starts hating I at least pay a bit more attention to and if I like it, why not? Discussed songs, whether positive or negative, probably do get an advantage)
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Chez Wombat
post Apr 8 2021, 01:49 AM
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QUOTE(Cosmic Cody @ Apr 8 2021, 02:33 AM) *
didn't your single vote prevent what could have been the very first and only null-pointer in a BJSC final?

own it i guess x


Way to deweave me, that was different OK!!11 pirate.gif I wasn't aware my other team members weren't supporting it in the final
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J00prstar
post Apr 8 2021, 10:43 AM
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I listen to it all blind & go for my fave tracks.

Re tactical voting multiple times I have screwed myself over by voting for something that will knock back my own entry laugh.gif

I feel like there probably are some nations I point more regularly , but that's down to the tracks sent rather than any deliberate attempt to award.
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gooddelta
post Apr 8 2021, 11:12 AM
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On the rare occasion I'm towards the top of the betting odds, my 18 or 15 always seems to be the other songs right up there with mine laugh.gif

I have never yet marked them down in a tactical fashion, but I can see how the temptation to do so could be strong. It has also been tempting when somebody vocally pans your entry but you love theirs to knock them down a few points, but I've always managed to resist that tempation too and have always voted purely on the music in front of me.
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PeteFromLeeds
post Apr 8 2021, 04:23 PM
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In terms of how I actually decide my votes, in the Final I'll listen to all the songs once and rank them all, then put my Top 25 on a Spotify playlist which I'll have on heavy rotation for a couple of days. I'll then listen to my Top 25 in reverse order and re-rank them as I go along. I've had various different methods in the past but I've been fine-tuning this one over the past 20/30 contests (I used to be weird and show all my working-outs in big long spreadsheets but I don't have time to show all that anymore sad.gif ) and it seems the fairest it's ever been in temrs of where my points go.

For semi-finals I tend to only do one listen-through then do a mini-recap using the Spotify 30-second clips to see if anything seems clearly out of place in my rankings, I'd love to do more for that as well but I don't have the time anymore.
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Linds.
post Apr 8 2021, 05:28 PM
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I used to copy and paste the list of songs into a word doc and do a traffic lights system, green the songs I loved and definitely wanted to point, orange for the mediocre that I'd point if I had the space (which most of the time I did) and then red for the absolutely nots.

These days I like to open the Spotify playlist and then as I'm listening I'll add the songs I like to another playlist and then move them about into my rank, it's easy to translate that into points and it also means I'm not including any subconscious bias towards people I like more than others as I can't see who sent what until I'm actually putting my votes together which I prefer, gives it another element of surprise I guess laugh.gif

In terms of the songs I'm more likely to point, I'm not a fan of slow songs in this context because I'm sitting listening to like 40 songs, I don't wanna be bored, I want to hear the bops so if it's catchy or has something that's gonna grab me then I'm interested. I tend to go for more pop songs for that reason but if it's rocky then I'm probably going to love it as well. I do like dance songs but it's got to have lyrics and something I can zone in on, if it's catchy as well then ya sure. If your song is over 5mins you've lost me automatically because I don't have the attention span to listen to all of that plus everyone else's songs, sorry. Maybe if I was hearing it out of this context, same for instrumental or sad/slow songs etc then I'd probably be more likely to enjoy it.

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