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Suedehead2
I thought it would be fun to have a thread keeping track of various Tory lies and deceptions. I’ll start with a few examples of some of their pre-election pronouncements. I’ll use separate posts so that it is easier to discuss each one.

In February, a Tory minister announced that fracking would not be allowed in SSSIs. Yesterday, they announced a slight change in policy. The word “not” has been removed. Well, it’s only three letters, isn’t it?
Suedehead2
In February the Culture, Media & Sport select committee published a report about the BBC. One section looked at the way the BBC was bounced into a very harsh licence foo settlement after the 2010 election. The MPs concluded that this should not be allowed to happen again, and that the process should be more open next time. The report was presented by the then chair of the committee, a Tory MP called John Whittingdale.

Earlier this month, the new Secretary of State for Culture, Media & Sport, who, by a remarkable coincidence, is a Tory MP called John Whittingdale, bounced the BBC into paying for the free licences for over 75s. So, when Cameron promised not to reduce any pensioners’ benefits, he forgot to tell us that some of the cost of that would be borne by the BBC. Perhaps the next move will be to replace, say, £40 of the pension with grocery vouchers. Those vouchers would be redeemable in supermarkets etc., but the cost will be borne by the retailer, not the government.
Suedehead2
Shortly before the first election debate, a Lib Dem minister (remember when they were a thing?) claimed that the Tories were considering cuts to child tax credits. Cameron was asked about that in the debate. He responded that it was in a report listing various options and that it had been dismissed. He went on to say that it would be dismissed again if the Tories were still in power after the election. In last week’s Budget, Osborne announced large cuts in child tax credit, cuts which will more than outweigh the increase in the minimum wage for many families.
Pogueschartpeak
How about (and this one concerns me and my rapidly deteriorating parents) the sudden change of date in policy for those paying for their own care from savings and the house they live in (and I live in) cap being delayed until 2020 when they swore it was coming in in 2015/6.

These are all issues which the opposition should be loudly shouting from the rooftops about, the Tories are changing all of their promises already in a bold, slimy manner weeks into a new government and no-one is accusing them of anything like the furore the libdems got over much less.

The prime function of an Opposition, even one in the throws of an election, is to bring the government to task and do it's utmost to protect the population from the deceit and self-serving in power. We need headlines and the same message repeated over and over until it gets through the right-wing press.

Tories, of course, always do what's best for them - both to get elected and then cherry-pick what they do and don't do afterwards.
Calum
The one thing about the whole BBC debacle that's irking me a lot is that the Tories are hell bent on doing away with the BBC Trust, yet in their Green Paper, they're throwing statistic this, statistic that about what the BBC is doing wrong into the mix... from the BBC Trust.
5 Silas Frøkner
After being found out for bombing Syria against the parliamentary vote, the foi act is now under threat of being axed
Oliver
QUOTE(Silas @ Jul 18 2015, 01:56 PM) *
After being found out for bombing Syria against the parliamentary vote, the foi act is now under threat of being axed


Even worse when they are trying to enforce the snoopers charter. They don't want the public to know what they do, but they demand that they know what we do?
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Calum Hood @ Jul 18 2015, 12:42 AM) *
The one thing about the whole BBC debacle that's irking me a lot is that the Tories are hell bent on doing away with the BBC Trust, yet in their Green Paper, they're throwing statistic this, statistic that about what the BBC is doing wrong into the mix... from the BBC Trust.


The Tories don't like anything that challenges their power-base (they are quite happy for multi-billionaire foreigners to have a massive political sway in the country, no question about British democracy there or quality programming, quite happy to see channels and channels of rubbish and endless Fox/Sky news propaganda) and the relatively small amount the TV-licence payer (not the taxpayer!) forks out for the BBC gives the UK enormous international rational prestige worth billions to the UK in industry promotion, the music industry gets millions from the BBC radio promotion of new music that commercial radio ignores, and the BBC DVD and foreign sales section brings in shitloads of money for the likes of Doctor Who. Not to mention award winning entertainment and information programmes.

The Tory government is totally politically motivated, there is no public outcry to get rid of the licence fee, just some people dodging paying for it by going online. That is easily resolved with a TV licence pass code. It's also an opportunity to charge pay as you go for non-licence-fee payers and non-UK-residents.

Detestable. Loathsome. Feel free to add any other suitable words for them.....
Suedehead2
Calling Tories detestable and loathsome is hardly fair. OK, some of them are indeed detestable and loathsome but most of them are far worse than that.
Pogueschartpeak
ha! laugh.gif
Pogueschartpeak
following a very interesting Private Eye investigation into offshore-companies owning vast swathes of UK land and property, it would appear that David Cameron's assurances that he would chase tax dodgers and publish lists of who owns what have been left surprisingly unfulfilled. It seems that millionaires who can't actually explain where their money comes from (non-British) and UK-resident wealthy folk have offshore companies in tax havens, many of them British tax havens, and are hidden under layer upon layer of other companies to hide the real owners.

Private Eye has provided a handy online map showing all the properties in case anyone fancies doing a £3 land reg enquiry to find out more and try to match it up with HSBC-revealed files from Switzerland. The police force (who investigate only "the tip of the iceberg" due to lack of funding) would no doubt be interested in information.

An unkind person might suspect that the Tory Party have a lot to lose, given a lot of these individuals appear to donate large sums to the party (at the very least). As I'm a kind person I'll just comment that David Cameron is f***ing useless at his job - which is catching criminals, managing the economy, reaping in sorely-needed lost taxes - preferring instead to target the lower-end of the income scale to the upper-end.

It's almost as if he has something to lose......
Doctor Blind
Indeed.

That map which you mention is available here and is an excellent resource: http://www.private-eye.co.uk/registry
Pogueschartpeak
How about a direct comparison between old fashioned inefficient 1980's local government and current modern streamlined outsourced local government?

How many members of staff does it take to change a lightbulb in Local Government?

Olden days? 3 (one to report, one in-house handyman to buy bulb, do the job and send invoice in to finance section, one finance officer to process and pay invoice (or petty cash).

These days? 12. This is not a joke. It's a minimum number, sometimes it's more.

I keep hoping some national newspaper will put a freedom of info request in to all L.G.A's regarding lightbulb changes and members of staff......

on the plus side, they are long-life, low-energy, white-light strip-bulb's these days, none of your 40-watts screw-in. There is of course, no screw-in allowed in Local Gov. tongue.gif
Pogueschartpeak
interesting proganda coming, as the Rich get stuck into the poor, at the Tory conference and the Taxpayers Alliance led by a right-wing nut try to elbow them to move even more to the right, especially on old people, on the grounds apparently that they shouldn't worry about losing votes since most of them will be dead by the next election, at which point a few sweets can be chucked out at the survivors.

It's refreshing to see a Tory not trying to hide behind smarmy soundbites, much as the current intnention to make the poor work harder, as hard as the Chinese, it's their own fault, after all, that they failed to go to the best schools that money can buy and the subsequent career in politics and all those associated benefits that brings.

So there you have it, the kinder more caring Tory Party at last outs themselves, as racist, elitist, uncaring bast*rds who are intent on trying to force all councils to enter freemarket business rates policies to scrape together cash, leaving those poorer councils depending on handouts from the richer ones, cos frankly the chances of businesses relocating to (coincidentally non-Tory) councils is fairly remote.

Even Boris Johnson is going to speak out, apparently, at the lessening of his chnaces of getting to run the country. More than high time that Euroseptic split in the party came to fore....
Suedehead2
The government has recently introduced a new version of the Ministerial Code, laying out how ministers are meant to behave. You may well have missed it. While the last version fiver years ago was launched with much fanfare, this one was slipped out rather more quietly with a discreet, largely ignored, statement in the House of Lords.

One major change is the deletion of the requirement to have regard for international law. Dominic Grieve, Attorney General (the minister who also acts as a legal adviser) until last year when he was sacked for supporting Human Rights, has criticised this change. As for his successor, Jeremy Wright, you might have thought that he would have been consulted. Maybe he was, but this is what he said in a speech to an International Law Conference on the very day the Lords announcement was made.

QUOTE
International law binds the UK, both as a central tenet of our constitutional framework and as a distinct legal regime at the international level. The constitutional principle to respect the rule of law and comply with our international obligations is reflected in the Ministerial Code – which applies to me as much as to any other minister. The Code states that there is an overarching duty on ministers to comply with the law, including international law and treaty obligations and to uphold the administration of justice and to protect the integrity of public life.

That would suggest that, either he knew nothing about the change, or he knew about it and was making his opposition known, albeit quietly.

It should also be noted that the government have said they made the change to bring the Ministerial Code more in line with the Civil Service code. That is contradicted by Wright's next sentence.

QUOTE
That duty is mirrored in the Civil Service Code and so applies to all of us in government, whether ministers, lawyers or officials.


So, yet more lies and deceit from Cameron and co.
Pogueschartpeak
There have been so many reversals on election promises lately by the tory party in full blood-lust unbridled ive given up trying to list them. Easier to list promises they have stuck to... tongue.gif
Pogueschartpeak
How about £2 m cuts to services in Dorset to support the mentally ill, alcohol, drug and sexual health, among other services. This will work out cheaper for the government overall because PEOPLE WILL DIE. Only just cheaper though, because a lot of them will end up costing in hospital afterwards en route to dying or improving.

Can I just say I loathe the warped values of the Tories, and their sick support of the massively rich in favour of hitting those most in need? Thanks, I knew you wouldn't mind.
Suedehead2
They're at it again. Either that, or Jeremy Hunt is wasting a lot of time and effort.

Yes, it's the junior doctors' dispute. It isn't all about pay, despite Hunt's attempts to persuade people otherwise. However, he has been sending mixed messages about pay. He has claimed that no junior doctor will see their pay cut under his proposals. However, he has also said that the new pay scheme will not cost any more than the current scheme. Those two statements are only compatible if every junior doctor will be paid exactly what they are paid now. If that is the case, what on earth is the point?
Pogueschartpeak
well, if my local gov experience is any guide, the maths work as follows:

get rid of some doctors.

make those not sacked work longer hours, and faster, with no pay increase.

job done. Apparent savings made.

Except that the unfortunate side effects turn up elsewhere costing either money or lives or misery, or any combination.

The concept of cause and effect and logic is as alien to the Tories in power as the local Tories when it comes to creative accounting and political theory over cold facts. Our council has just announced another successful couple of early retirees in Finance and Section 151 Officers, err 5th since we hived off staff to the (instantly) bankrupt private sector. These are facts. The public examination of the "savings" are not a matter of public record. They are "confidential".

The Tories (and Blair) really really hate Freedom Of Information. I mean, they really look down on it. A bit like my attitude to the local rag which chooses not to ask the right FOI questions and to publish them, preferring instead to wittle on about a dog bin not being emptied in a park (ignoring the root causes of bins not being emptied).
Suedehead2
Are you suggesting the Bournemouth Echo is a bit sh1t? tongue.gif
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 21 2015, 11:44 PM) *
Are you suggesting the Bournemouth Echo is a bit sh1t? tongue.gif

Shall we say there is room for improvement tongue.gif
Suedehead2
I've missed a few opportunities to add to this but here's one...

On the day that the Commons was debating whether to extend bombing to Syria, the health secretary Jeremy Rhyming-Slang slipped out an announcement. He has decided that some of the figures showing how the NHS is doing will no longer be reported. So, if you want to know about A&E waiting times, tough. They won't be reporters any more. Similarly, there will be no figures on how long people are left waiting in ambulances outside hospital or left on trollies for more than four hours.
Pogueschartpeak
How about the reviews on the banking crisis culpability, the banks who still own shitloads of bailout cash, are now 6 years old and beyond the date they can be held accountable, following "delays". The vast majority of big knobs who were in responsible decision making well paid jobs are still free to hold down city jobs. Not only can you cause billons worth of damage but you can get away scot-free. Now try stealing a bag of crisps from tescos and watch how much the system is prepated to pay out bringing you to justice. The rich and powerful are a cartel relying on oceans of poor to keep them rich.

Ive been reading private eye again, tch!
Qassändra
Stealing a bag of crisps from a supermarket with CCTV footage is just a *tad* bit more open-shut a case (for who's culpable, what happened, when, and whether any crimes were committed) than the most complex financial meltdown in modern history though?
Suedehead2
QUOTE(Qassändra @ Dec 13 2015, 11:28 PM) *
Stealing a bag of crisps from a supermarket with CCTV footage is just a *tad* bit more open-shut a case (for who's culpable, what happened, when, and whether any crimes were committed) than the most complex financial meltdown in modern history though?

That doesn't excuse the fact that people are going to get away scot-free simply because it has taken a long time to consider all the evidence. I'm generally opposed to the idea of retrospective legislation. However, I might be prepared to make an exception if someone wanted to change this six-year restriction retrospectively.
Qassändra
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 14 2015, 12:42 AM) *
That doesn't excuse the fact that people are going to get away scot-free simply because it has taken a long time to consider all the evidence. I'm generally opposed to the idea of retrospective legislation. However, I might be prepared to make an exception if someone wanted to change this six-year restriction retrospectively.

Oh definitely, but I'm pretty wary of any assumptions that just because stuff as complex as this/the Chilcot Report have taken so long they're automatically lumped into the category of cover-up rather than cock-up.
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Qassändra @ Dec 13 2015, 11:45 PM) *
Oh definitely, but I'm pretty wary of any assumptions that just because stuff as complex as this/the Chilcot Report have taken so long they're automatically lumped into the category of cover-up rather than cock-up.


I'm less forgiving I'm afraid. They all got paid outrageous wages and bonuses to be good at their job, and like almost everyone in positions of power, abused it, failed to listen to those in the know (this is still going on in local government and government) because they think they know better because they are paid more than some lackey who they see as just being negative and out to piss on their huge bonuses.

They all failed miserably at their jobs, and the only reason they haven't been brought to task for 115 billion pounds worth of debt is cos the politicians who were on the case (and not just Tories) are going to look as stupid as the bankers if it went to trial, as all sorts of inconvenient truths come out when the pigs start to squeal.

Fairly open and shut to me. The banks went bankrupt, those in control of them didn't even get a slap on the wrist. It would have been 114.9 billion times cheaper to concentrate on the professional thieves and give petty thieves a slapped wrist.

BTW don't get me going on bonuses: the last Labour government apparently "had" to honour the contracts of top bankers in the nationalised (failed) banks, re wages and bonuses, cos it was written down somewhere. Local government staff get our contracts rewritten at the drop of a hat, and our salary (as agreed in a "contract") reduced at bureaucratic whim. One rule for the rich one rule for the relatively poor.

Have I mentioned how much I loathe hypocrisy? Thought so... laugh.gif
Pogueschartpeak
can we add an about-face on fracking in AOB's and National Parks now? This is after the government pulled the plug on windfarms for being 15 miles off the coast as it would damage a World Heritage site by being in the completely opposite direction far out at sea, as opposed to drilling underneath landscapes and natural vegetation doing who knows what long-term damage to root-systems and wildlife. SSSI's are not protected.

Lies, lies, lies. Liar Liar pants on fire.

Can I just say, and I know "I told you so" remarks dont go down well generally, but I said not months ago that without the Lib-Dems reigning in the sheer nastiness we would soon find out what they contributed towards the coalition in preventing the wholesale Conservative power-hungry muscle. So, a quick "thank you very much" to all the effort that went into eliminating the Lib-Dems, and the totally ineffective campaign against the real baddies who dodged every bullet hiding behind the LibDems as cannon-fodder, and everyone fell for it.....

Be careful what you wish for or you end up with an unelectable opposition and a decimated handy brake on those who want to re-invent society as a rich-loving, tax-dodging, money-grabbing, vested-interested mirror image of themselves.

Effing depressing we have another 5 years of misery ahead, minimum.
Doctor Blind
The final day of Parliament is the traditional 'bury all the sh*t' day, and this year we've a VERITABLE BONANZA

* The government bill for special advisors ( Gideon Osborne has ten!) rose for 2015-16 to £9.2 million - up an inflation busting £800,000
* A damning report that reveals three-quarters of those affected by the so-called bedroom tax were cutting back on food to simply survive
* The report into the Muslim Brotherhood has finally been released concluding that they have a “highly ambiguous relationship with violent extremism” but not banning them, thus simultaneously alienating millions who never espoused violence in the first place and also winding up the Saudi's.
* The government published hospitality records showing George Osborne had a private dinner with Rupert Murdoch on 13 September- the day after Jeremy Corbyn became Labour leader
* The government announced a mass expansion of licences for fracking for shale gas: Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth confirmed that licences are being offered to companies to start looking for and extracting shale gas from 159 areas in England and Wales - including our national parks as ratified yesterday.
* The government published an announcement that conceded air quality will remain poor in major UK cities until 2020 and continue to fail to meet EU targets.
* As the Conservatives didn't get their way with tax credits, they've announced today that The House of Lords would lose the power to block certain legislation in the future.

MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS
Suedehead2
The Tories enjoy playing fast and loose with the rule, frequently exploiting the fact that we don't have a formal, written constitution. This week, the government finally got their way by persuading the Lords to vote against extending the vote to 16-and 17-year-olds for the EU referendum. They threatened to bypass the Lords by declaring it to be a money issue. Their justification was that they estimated the cost of extending the franchise to £6 million. That is, 15p per adult. Note, that is not 15p per year, it is a one-off cost of 15p per person. It is generally believed that their estimate did not include an adjustment to allow for the fact that drawing up the register for the following two years would be cheaper as most of the new names would already be known.

Of course, if they can have something costing as little as £6 million to be a money issue, they can do the same with pretty much anything, thereby rendering the House Of Lords totally redundant.
Suedehead2
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Dec 17 2015, 09:17 PM) *
The final day of Parliament is the traditional 'bury all the sh*t' day, and this year we've a VERITABLE BONANZA

* The government bill for special advisors ( Gideon Osborne has ten!) rose for 2015-16 to £9.2 million - up an inflation busting £800,000


MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS

The cost of special advisers should have gone down after the election. After all, under the coalition, some Lib Dem ministers would have wanted their own advisers in addition to those advising the Tory ministers in the same department. Of course, in opposition, Cameron promised to reduce the number of special advisers.
Qassändra
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 17 2015, 10:38 PM) *
Of course, if they can have something costing as little as £6 million to be a money issue, they can do the same with pretty much anything, thereby rendering the House Of Lords totally redundant.

Ding ding ding! And quietly we slip into a unitary state.
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Dec 17 2015, 09:17 PM) *
The final day of Parliament is the traditional 'bury all the sh*t' day, and this year we've a VERITABLE BONANZA

* The government bill for special advisors ( Gideon Osborne has ten!) rose for 2015-16 to £9.2 million - up an inflation busting £800,000
* A damning report that reveals three-quarters of those affected by the so-called bedroom tax were cutting back on food to simply survive
* The report into the Muslim Brotherhood has finally been released concluding that they have a “highly ambiguous relationship with violent extremism” but not banning them, thus simultaneously alienating millions who never espoused violence in the first place and also winding up the Saudi's.
* The government published hospitality records showing George Osborne had a private dinner with Rupert Murdoch on 13 September- the day after Jeremy Corbyn became Labour leader
* The government announced a mass expansion of licences for fracking for shale gas: Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth confirmed that licences are being offered to companies to start looking for and extracting shale gas from 159 areas in England and Wales - including our national parks as ratified yesterday.
* The government published an announcement that conceded air quality will remain poor in major UK cities until 2020 and continue to fail to meet EU targets.
* As the Conservatives didn't get their way with tax credits, they've announced today that The House of Lords would lose the power to block certain legislation in the future.

MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS


Bonanza indeed!

House Of Lords, who Tories have supported forever, now they have "made the government rethink it's policy that it tried to slip through undercover of a batch" (The Lords don't have the power to block, only to send back) are suddenly the Spawn Of Satan and the Tories wish to continue to have a second house that gets paid to do nothing effectively. While I'm not the biggest fan of H Of L as it is set up, I am very much in favour of a second chamber to spot-check the all of the sneaky slimy low-down hidden undemocratic laws any government tries to get through by hiding it amongst other stuff. Loathesome.

Murdoch got off scot free from any personal culpability in News Corp guilt (and they ARE guilty), and is a propaganda machine for any number of pro-rich legislation that allows him to continue to increase power and money. Funny he should have lunch with the Chancellor....

"Special Advisors" is another way of saying "paying shitloads to people who are good at putting a case forward for stuff we intend doing, spinning it, and then having someone to blame when it goes wrong." It's the modern political way. It's also deceiptful, also loathesome, and it's insulting to the intelliegence of people who aren't fooled by BS.

Rich posh boys have a justified reputation for mocking plebs, anecdotedly amongst friends who deal with them and their City cronies. One of my fave games is to loudly slag off investment bankers and the rich when I'm on the tube in certain parts of London, giving reasons why of course, and watch the newspapers shift about uncomfortably.

How childish! laugh.gif

Pogueschartpeak
Dave is at again offering his sympathies, this time flooding. Perhaps if his government (and most others in the world, to be fair) were a bit less two-faced about global warming (cancelling wind-power farms, allowing fracking and not changing the law so that local government investments in environment and people unfriendly institutions cannot be cancelled, they now have a duty to get "Best Value" - like Oil, weapons of destruction and so on - then perhaps the links between more flooding, more damage and increasing global warming, melting ice caps and glaciers, might be seen more as cause and effect in the tiny little rich pea-brains.

Best Value, take it from those in local government, is not necessarily being forced to go for the cheapest option (that's why Labour changed the Tory legislation after it became bleeding obvious half of the companies winning bids ended up not being able to carry out what they signed up to) it's going for the most sensible and long-term most-profitable option. That would include not supporting, say, OPEC who are currently undercutting oil producers worldwide to drive them out of business/reduce their power, so that they can then raise prices and regain the political power in the world that they have enjoyed for so long, which allows them to get away with all sorts with no fear of political retaliation.

Have I mentioned that this government has issued dozens of statements showing them to be lying hypocrites? This is a fact.
Qassändra
QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Dec 28 2015, 06:14 PM) *
Have I mentioned that this government has issued dozens of statements showing them to be lying hypocrites? This is a fact.

Yes, we get the gist without you repeating this exact sentence in every post.
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Qassändra @ Dec 28 2015, 05:55 PM) *
Yes, we get the gist without you repeating this exact sentence in every post.


It never hurts to reinforce public opinion through repetition. That is, after all, how PR works tongue.gif

PS, somebody has to say these things, the Labour leadership seem to be off for xmas, rumours of imminent shadow cabinet reshuffles obviously more important, teresa.gif
Suedehead2
QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Dec 28 2015, 06:28 PM) *
It never hurts to reinforce public opinion through repetition. That is, after all, how PR works tongue.gif

PS, somebody has to say these things, the Labour leadership seem to be off for xmas, rumours of imminent shadow cabinet reshuffles obviously more important, teresa.gif

When it comes to exposing Cameron's lies, the Labour leadership seems to have been off for Christmas for over five years tongue.gif
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 28 2015, 09:01 PM) *
When it comes to exposing Cameron's lies, the Labour leadership seems to have been off for Christmas for over five years tongue.gif


Ouch! (The truth hurts... laugh.gif )
Pogueschartpeak
Can I just say Happy New Year Oliver Letwin? I'd also like to thank Oliver for helping to re-confirm my utter belief that posh public school boys should not be let anywhere near politics when they grow up, cos they have, y'know, f***-all experience of reality, life, and people outside their closeted privileged upbringing, which totally distorts their ivory tower view of the world. It's not as if the unhappy people of the time weren't actually SAYING what the problems were, it wasn't a huge secret, just didn't break through the walls of bigotry in the H of P it seems.

The ability to speak latin is of piss-all use outside of academia, and encourages Roman-Empire views of minorities, it would seem, if newly-released government historical documents are any example.... I mean, it makes Thatcher look positively socially advanced in comparison!

Good to know that there's still room for people like Mr. Letwin in current Tory governments, I'm sure they all feel cosy and warm together.
Suedehead2
The real joke is that Letwin is claiming that his comments were "badly worded". Perhaps he could let us know how racist remarks could be better-worded. These comments were in a written memo, so he had plenty of opportunity to make sure they were worded correctly. As it is, they were certainly worded very clearly.

Mind you, Letwin does have form. He was one of the prime movers behind the Poll Tax. In the 2001 election campaign, he told a journalist that the Tories had plans for £20 billion of cuts but that they would prefer not to let the voters know. He was kept well away from journalists for the rest of the campaign. In another election campaign, he told another journalist that the NHS would not exist after a full Conservative term.

It's not only his mouth that has got him into trouble. He was photographed dumping documents in a public litter bin. He somehow got away with it because they were not classified Cabinet documents. They were "just" items of constituency correspondence. Apparently anyone corresponding with their MP should accept that their correspondence might end up in a public litter bin.
Qassändra
QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Dec 30 2015, 09:34 PM) *
Can I just say Happy New Year Oliver Letwin? I'd also like to thank Oliver for helping to re-confirm my utter belief that posh public school boys should not be let anywhere near politics when they grow up, cos they have, y'know, f***-all experience of reality, life, and people outside their closeted privileged upbringing, which totally distorts their ivory tower view of the world.

I'll pass on the regards to Tony Benn and Nick Clegg shall I?
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Qassändra @ Dec 30 2015, 09:19 PM) *
I'll pass on the regards to Tony Benn and Nick Clegg shall I?


yeah please do. Benn's not in a position to appreciate it though his soon-to-be-booted-out-of-the-shadow-cabinet son is... tongue.gif

There are always exceptions to every rule, but in principle I'm agin it without clear evidence they have a well-rounded human being residing inside. Tony Blair, if anything, case proven m'lud....
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 30 2015, 09:02 PM) *
The real joke is that Letwin is claiming that his comments were "badly worded". Perhaps he could let us know how racist remarks could be better-worded. These comments were in a written memo, so he had plenty of opportunity to make sure they were worded correctly. As it is, they were certainly worded very clearly.

Mind you, Letwin does have form. He was one of the prime movers behind the Poll Tax. In the 2001 election campaign, he told a journalist that the Tories had plans for £20 billion of cuts but that they would prefer not to let the voters know. He was kept well away from journalists for the rest of the campaign. In another election campaign, he told another journalist that the NHS would not exist after a full Conservative term.

It's not only his mouth that has got him into trouble. He was photographed dumping documents in a public litter bin. He somehow got away with it because they were not classified Cabinet documents. They were "just" items of constituency correspondence. Apparently anyone corresponding with their MP should accept that their correspondence might end up in a public litter bin.


well-worded, well-reminded. I look forward to next year's cabinet releases and see what other gems reside inside. Hopefully some really juicy ones to embarrass the unembarrassable... laugh.gif
Qassändra
QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Dec 30 2015, 11:38 PM) *
yeah please do. Benn's not in a position to appreciate it though his soon-to-be-booted-out-of-the-shadow-cabinet son is... tongue.gif

There are always exceptions to every rule, but in principle I'm agin it without clear evidence they have a well-rounded human being residing inside. Tony Blair, if anything, case proven m'lud....

What'd be that evidence - that they share your politics to a degree?
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Qassändra @ Dec 31 2015, 02:55 AM) *
What'd be that evidence - that they share your politics to a degree?


No, that they share a concern and awareness about all people, not just the selfish rich ones who pay for their political campaigns or have mutual business interests. We can all argue about how to achieve fairness in society (there is no easy answer), and there are plenty of genuine local councillors on all sides who do, but the ones who just pay lip service to society while pursuing selfish motives (like Mr Letwin) need outing at every opportunity for what they are. They are currently running the country and causing long-term havoc, while the Labour Party seem happier to make pronouncements on individuals in the government (which is fair enough) to the exclusion of the actual policies and effects (which is not fair enough). Where's Corbyn, why isn't he giving press interviews about what the Tories are doing and shouting about it, that's his actual main job!?! That is what his supporters elected him for, and he's off on TV riding his bike or saying he's not bothered by pressure.

Clearly....
Pogueschartpeak
They're coming thick n fast over the holidays. It appears that the era of banker bashing is now officially over. There will be no more fca enquiry into banter behaviour. The bank levy is dropped no one has been brought to task for anything they did. They can't find a new head of the fca after sacking the one hired to get tough with banks.

Rumours that HSBC threatening to leave the UK following rumours of tax irregularities and general unhappiness with the bank levy suggest the treasury has caved in.

This government does the quickest u turns in history they really didn't like all those nasty Libdem policies did they..,?

It also demonstrates who's REALLY running the country
Qassändra
QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Dec 31 2015, 09:20 AM) *
No, that they share a concern and awareness about all people, not just the selfish rich ones who pay for their political campaigns or have mutual business interests.

Ah, so the answer is yes - that they share your politics to a degree. I disagree with them strongly, but the Conservatives have plenty of policies they could use to justify themselves on 'sharing a concern and awareness about all people' - just by different political means to the ones you would use.

But also in general, banning any one from politics on the basis of background (subject to vague tests or otherwise) is pretty shoddy. Once you've got the precedent...
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Qassändra @ Dec 31 2015, 07:05 PM) *
Ah, so the answer is yes - that they share your politics to a degree. I disagree with them strongly, but the Conservatives have plenty of policies they could use to justify themselves on 'sharing a concern and awareness about all people' - just by different political means to the ones you would use.

But also in general, banning any one from politics on the basis of background (subject to vague tests or otherwise) is pretty shoddy. Once you've got the precedent...


Oh I agree entirely, it's not remotely practical, desirable, or ever going to happen in any shape or form, and Conservatives can have helpful policies, but Tories - the ones I rant about - tend to favour the rich over the poor and I'm always going to slag them off because the poor (who can equally be just as myopic) aren't in positions where they can do (much) damage.
Suedehead2
The Tories continue to explore new depths of shamelessness. Two years ago, they started claiming to have increased spending on flood defences. They were criticised at the time for misusing data. Undeterred, they are still at it. The National Audit Office and the House of Commons Library have both published figures contradicting them, but they continue to repeat the lie. Clearly, they believe the old adage that repeating a lie enough times will make it true.

The figures the Tories like to quote include emergency funding to clear up after flooding. Adding that to the flood defence budget is rather like adding some of the money spent by A&E departments to the road safety budget and claiming to have increased it.
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 1 2016, 10:22 PM) *
The Tories continue to explore new depths of shamelessness. Two years ago, they started claiming to have increased spending on flood defences. They were criticised at the time for misusing data. Undeterred, they are still at it. The National Audit Office and the House of Commons Library have both published figures contradicting them, but they continue to repeat the lie. Clearly, they believe the old adage that repeating a lie enough times will make it true.

The figures the Tories like to quote include emergency funding to clear up after flooding. Adding that to the flood defence budget is rather like adding some of the money spent by A&E departments to the road safety budget and claiming to have increased it.


That's the great thing about quoting statistics to support a viewpoint. Hire a consultant to spin things, mix n match, ignore inconvenient facts, and then just repeat ad nauseum. Modern politics is based on it....not to mention sacking anyone that points out inconvenient truths. You probably know all of the inconvenient local truths, but the New Year may prove mildly interesting at some stage... laugh.gif
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