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vidsanta
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/a...nster-uk-brexit

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-55...-50million.html

I suspect they'll have a struggle to get off the ground, as I can't see them finding something uniquely appealing.
Pogueschartpeak
They would need at least twice the current Libdem support to start to even breakthrough, and that is unlikely.

As a longterm build though, we have the failing economy, Brexit (which everyone will complain about on both sides), and post-Corbyn Labour all in the mix.

Liam Fox biggest achievement so far is to get 40 countries to roughly agree to the same deal we have with the EU on trade. Sadly no list on which countries they are nor anything about most of the countries in the world, and of course nothing in writing.

Plenty of room for things to go tits up, Labour to get in, find things get worse, and both parties get stuffed for lying to us all/doing nothing about it. At which point anything could happen...
Suedehead2
So far the party seems to have a large pot of money but no members. With no hint of even a vague philosophy, they haven't begun to give the vaguest clue what they are trying to achieve.
vidsanta
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 9 2018, 11:29 AM) *
So far the party seems to have a large pot of money but no members. With no hint of even a vague philosophy, they haven't begun to give the vaguest clue what they are trying to achieve.


The phrase 'spanner in the works' comes to mind. heehee.gif
Pogueschartpeak
here's a novel opinion...


@OliverBullough
Apr 17

I know the idea of a new centrist party is a joke, but I can't help thinking there's political room in the UK in the gap between politicians that deport British people for being black, and ones that excuse dictators as long as they don't like America.
Brett-Butler
There was a funny & enlightening Tweet on the subject of a new centrist party that I came across the other day. I can't remember exactly what it said, but paraphrased, it went something along the lines of

"when people think of a new UK centrist party, they imagine it being along the lines of a more effective version of the Liberal Democrats. In actually, it would be more of a "we love the NHS, hang the pedos" party."

I feel like there would be a massive market for a new centrist party, one which by a remarkable coincidence matches up exactly with every single one of my own personal political views. Although then again, whilst I tend to consider myself a centrist, I'm the wrong kind of centrist.
vidsanta
QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Apr 18 2018, 09:02 PM) *
There was a funny & enlightening Tweet on the subject of a new centrist party that I came across the other day. I can't remember exactly what it said, but paraphrased, it went something along the lines of

"when people think of a new UK centrist party, they imagine it being along the lines of a more effective version of the Liberal Democrats. In actually, it would be more of a "we love the NHS, hang the pedos" party."

I feel like there would be a massive market for a new centrist party, one which by a remarkable coincidence matches up exactly with every single one of my own personal political views. Although then again, whilst I tend to consider myself a centrist, I'm the wrong kind of centrist.


There's certainly no current party, either mainstream or extreme, that closely matches my political views.
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 19 2018, 07:11 AM) *
There's certainly no current party, either mainstream or extreme, that closely matches my political views.


Safe to assume there never will be?
vidsanta
QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Apr 19 2018, 08:25 AM) *
Safe to assume there never will be?


Alas, yes - which is incidentally why I favour referendums and/or direct democracy. That way I don't have to rely on waiting fruitlessly for politicians to offer what I am looking for.
Brett-Butler
Tim Farron wrote an editorial today condemning the abuse of MPs and journalists. However, the most interesting point is hidden in the final two paragraphs, where he seems to be calling for a new political party. From The Spectator -

QUOTE
There are about 200 Labour MPs and 20-30 Tories, not to mention the Liberal Democrats, who have far more in common with one another than with the leadership of the two big parties. The main thing preventing them from forming another party to challenge them is party tribalism. This is unhealthy politics, especially when our main opposition party is acting, in a term aptly coined by Tory MP Sam Gyimah, as ‘not a Government in waiting but an Opposition in hiding’.

So in the interests of not being tribal, I will say that we need to kickstart this much talked-about new movement that could bring together politicians of different political colours but a common outlook. We need to relegate the extremists to the fringes and move back towards a more civilised politics, where we take care to attack the ball and not the player.


ChristmaSteve201
That's because most labour MPs are left over from another time and aren't in line with the leadership, hopefully we will get some new thinkers through in the coming elections.

Now let's get past new parties and what you think of the sdlp and Fianna Fáil merging in Ireland?
Brett-Butler
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jan 11 2019, 02:02 AM) *
That's because most labour MPs are left over from another time and aren't in line with the leadership, hopefully we will get some new thinkers through in the coming elections.

Now let's get past new parties and what you think of the sdlp and Fianna Fáil merging in Ireland?


Thought you'd be the person to ask me about that!

The way I see things, the current SDLP is on the verge of splitting into three different factions. The first faction are those who will be fully on board with the idea of a link-up between themselves and Fianna Fáil, which includes people like former MP Margaret Ritchie, which was a bit of a shock as my sources told me that she was very much running on auto-pilot for the last few years until she was unseated. It'll largely be the older and more traditional members that will go for this - I'm not sure whether this will end up being a full merger or just an electoral pact, but I imagine the first time we will see this will be in the local elections in May.

The second faction are the Labour-ite faction. These are the ones who not only favour the SDLP's current official partnership with the UK Labour Party, but would go further and be full-on Jeremy Corbyn supporters. This would largely be favoured by the younger members of the party's grassroots, as well as MLAs like Claire Hanna, who have been vocal about their opposition to the Fianna Fáil link-up. I can see this group either calling for an official electoral pact with the Labour Party in the north (like the UUP's rather awful attempt with the Conservatives in 2010), or will seek the Labour Party to finally stand candidates in Northern Ireland, of which these members will find themselves the likely "guinea pig" candidates to see if a Labour Party can win here. Of course there's the complication of the SDLP being a nationalist party and Labour technically being unionist by default, but given Corbyn's support for reunification, it may not be as big a problem as at first.

The third group are those who would be neither in favour of a link-up with Fianna Faíl or the UK Labour Party, but still want to be in a party that runs on an all-Ireland basis. This group would politically be closer to the Fáils than the UK Labourites, but still have ideological differences with the former. This group I could see forming a new all-Ireland party, one that sees themselves as the ideological successors of the SDLP of the Good Friday Agreement, although I would argue that neither of the three factions could genuinely claim the mantle of Hume & the other architects of the peace process of that time.

Although I'm going to be sad to see the inevitable splintering of the SDLP, given that they're the party who's consistently got my vote the most over the years, it is exciting to see the reconfiguration of nationalism within the island of Ireland. One of the side effects of Brexit is that it is giving nationalism a chance to do some soul-searching, to look at itself and decide what form nationalism should take, which I feel is going to be quite interesting over the coming months and years, especially with the possibility of a reunification vote at its likeliest in quite a long time. I'm also hoping that we start to see more all-Ireland parties running for elections in the coming years, at the moment I believe that it's only Sinn Fein and People Before Profit that currently do so (and the latter have really s*** their bed politically over the past 2 years, due to their support of Brexit, the moment that I realised that one of their more prominent members was thick as champ). I'd also love to see an all-Ireland party at Westminister for the first time in nearly a century, although given Sinn Fein's current abstemious position, it would have to be a different party that does it.
ChristmaSteve201
Who was as thick as? Is he an MLA by any chance? That would narrow it down!!

Seems that the Belfast sdlp are the more labourite minded so would be interesting to see if Nichola Mallon would join Eastwood in being happy to move. It's a complicated picture but fascinating to see the political ramifications of an all island party taking their seats at West minister (possibly). Would be hard to stomach north and south.

Are the Green Party not all Ireland? Or are they a sister party if both UK and Irish Greens?
Brett-Butler
The Observer are reporting that a group of at least six Labour MPs are on the verge of resigning the whip and starting a new grouping in parliament. Of the three MPs named in the report, two of them (Angela Smith & Chris Leslie) have faced votes of no-confidence within their local party, whilst the third, Luciana Berger, has received criticism from some Labourites for attacking the party's antisemitism (Berger is Jewish).

I'd be tempted to write this off as a silly season story, although given that there are a few bigger stories that are currently dominating the news agenda, and given that some of the touted names would have less to lose if they jumped ship, I would take this story with a little bit less salt than I otherwise would. Still would be surprised if it happened though.
XmasIslandSnake
And on the other side of the Brexit spectrum...there is also 'The Brexit Party' formed out of UKIP members disaffected by the direction the party has gone under Gerard Batten. I would say there is the possibility of some Conservative Brexiteers eventually joining it if there is a soft Brexit.

QUOTE
The way I see things, the current SDLP is on the verge of splitting into three different factions.


Considering how badly they did in the last general election (losing all three of their seats), this is the last thing they need, and it is very bad for opposition in Northern Ireland to DUP and Sinn Fein dominance (together with the relative electoral weakness of the UUP and Alliance).
Brett-Butler
QUOTE(The Snake @ Feb 3 2019, 01:16 PM) *
And on the other side of the Brexit spectrum...there is also 'The Brexit Party' formed out of UKIP members disaffected by the direction the party has gone under Gerard Batten. I would say there is the possibility of some Conservative Brexiteers eventually joining it if there is a soft Brexit.


We've already seen an attempt at that with the new SDP, who are positioning themselves as more economically redistributive pro-Brexit Party. They've already gained (temporarily) an MEP in Patrick O'Flynn, who defected from UKIP, and they are likely to stand in the probable Peterborough by-election, and their membership has increased in the past few months. I think they will start to have a rise during the year, albeit not to the stage where they can win seats either at local or national level.
Holly and Izzy
We do desperately need a strong centrist party. The continual Tory highs in the opinion polls are almost certainly because too many people in this country have an opinion that 'Corbyn would be worse than anything ever' and so continue to support this car-crash as if a cabal of corrupt landlords and investment bankers with clearly very few political skills is worth supporting. So many European countries have that strong centrist party and work with coalition governments and it SEEMS at least a much nicer and less confrontational system.

The thing is, short of a En Marche-style political revolution, which is categorically not happening, or a forced split in one of the two main parties, I don't see how it will change. It would be best for the country if both the Tories and Labour split in two between the ERG lot and the traditional Conservative Tories on the one side and Centrist Blairites and Corbynites on the other, but there's no way they will do that voluntarily on a large scale, even if a few dissidents like these split.

Oh and change away from FPTP but that goes without saying and I might as well just add it in there so people know I know it's the problem.
Harve
Oh if I was in England where 99% of seats are straight Tory vs. Labour/Lib Dem contests (and Tory/Lab seats massively outnumber Tory/Lib seats) then I wouldn't hesitate to vote Labour regardless of who was leader. With perhaps the exception of a "Blue Labour" manifesto, in which case I'd seriously consider throwing a (useless) protest vote to the Libs or Greens. But yes, I'd be more enthusiastic about doing so were Corbyn not leader...

The problem is not Corbyn though, and dumping him will create as many electoral problems as it would solve. The party won't dump him anyway. The problem is FPTP and we decided to keep that in 2011. Despite it being a footnote in history, I'll always remember that referendum as it was the first time I was politically engaged!
Pogueschartpeak
both main parties need a rocket up the arse. I'd support any non-extreme party being created, though without any big political names it'll be as dead as a dodo within months of the next general election.
XmasIslandSnake
QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Feb 3 2019, 12:53 PM) *
We've already seen an attempt at that with the new SDP, who are positioning themselves as more economically redistributive pro-Brexit Party. They've already gained (temporarily) an MEP in Patrick O'Flynn, who defected from UKIP, and they are likely to stand in the probable Peterborough by-election, and their membership has increased in the past few months. I think they will start to have a rise during the year, albeit not to the stage where they can win seats either at local or national level.


I didn't know that this new incarnation of the SDP was pro-Brexit. It will be interesting to see whether the SDP or the new Farage-backed 'Brexit Party' that has been reported about this week becomes more popular then!
vidsanta
QUOTE(Harve @ Feb 3 2019, 04:06 PM) *
The problem is not Corbyn though, and dumping him will create as many electoral problems as it would solve. The party won't dump him anyway. The problem is FPTP and we decided to keep that in 2011. Despite it being a footnote in history, I'll always remember that referendum as it was the first time I was politically engaged!


Part of the problem was the choice offered - Alternative Vote was just about the worst of all the other possible systems. Not genuinely proportional at all. sad.gif

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Feb 3 2019, 04:58 PM) *
both main parties need a rocket up the arse.


Amen to that! tongue.gif

Brett-Butler
Owen Smith, who failed to unseat Corbyn as the leader of Labour, has suggested that he and other Labour members could leave over Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit stance. Coupled with other goings on in the party, including Luciana Berger having a vote of no-confidence put against her at her local party, we could see a new grouping much sooner than one might have expected (although I do remain somewhat sceptical).
vidsanta
QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Feb 7 2019, 06:45 PM) *
Owen Smith, who failed to unseat Corbyn as the leader of Labour, has suggested that he and other Labour members could leave over Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit stance. Coupled with other goings on in the party, including Luciana Berger having a vote of no-confidence put against her at her local party, we could see a new grouping much sooner than one might have expected (although I do remain somewhat sceptical).


Anyone see a potential major realignment of British politics? unsure.gif
Brett-Butler
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Feb 8 2019, 07:31 AM) *
Anyone see a potential major realignment of British politics? unsure.gif


In a word, no. Although we could see a temporary realignment with various factions breaking away from the main parties, by the next election the electorate will gravitate back to the main two parties. One of the many drawbacks of FPTP is that is always benefits the established parties.
vidsanta
QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Feb 8 2019, 07:47 AM) *
In a word, no. Although we could see a temporary realignment with various factions breaking away from the main parties, by the next election the electorate will gravitate back to the main two parties. One of the many drawbacks of FPTP is that is always benefits the established parties.


Too true - the last party that broke into the mainstream was Labour, a hundred years ago - and even that was due to franchising millions of new working class voters, rather than a sea-change in existing voters... sad.gif
Pogueschartpeak
however a minor new party with a few seats could hold the balance of power, and if it's centrist could force the nuttier extremism of the left and right back to the centre - aware that the electorate will blame them for everything the bigger parties do, or course as they try to rewrite history at the next election. Like saying austerity was a Tory thing, when it was also a Labour thing, one just outbid the other on the severity of it, which happened under Labour watch after a decade in power.
vidsanta
QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Feb 8 2019, 10:21 AM) *
however a minor new party with a few seats could hold the balance of power, and if it's centrist could force the nuttier extremism of the left and right back to the centre - aware that the electorate will blame them for everything the bigger parties do, or course as they try to rewrite history at the next election. Like saying austerity was a Tory thing, when it was also a Labour thing, one just outbid the other on the severity of it, which happened under Labour watch after a decade in power.


At the time I think austerity was necessary, due to the economic climate, but perhaps it went on longer than was really needed. People seem to want action in the economy, rather than ticking along at a slow & steady, if safe, pace.
Brett-Butler
Nigel Farage has officially launched his new political party, the Brexit Party. Despite his rhetoric about getting thousands of defectors from the Tory ranks, I don't think it is going to amount to much.
Santa Klaus
A group of Labour MPs are set to resign this morning according to Laura Kuennsberg

eeeek....
Santa Klaus
Luciana Berger, Mike Gapes, Ann Coffey, Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Chuka Umunna, Gavin Shuker all resigned to form the Independent Group.

Bit of a silly name as it takes away from the actual Independant MPs who don’t stand with a party.

There’s rumours that they will stand for re-election in marginal constituencies rather than their current omes
Holly and Izzy
By itself it's pretty small. If certain Tories followed them, or they joined up with the Lib Dems (something that they have ruled out right now), then it could be something not totally insignificant on a national scale.

I understand why they did it, from what I know of them, particularly Luciana and Chuka, their interests aren't aligning with the party and haven't for some time, but if it doesn't force anything further, it will turn out to be a large mistake.
Tawdry Hepburn
Why don't they just call it "Chukavision"?

I did laugh at what the BBC commentator said earlier: "7 MPs might be enough for a dinner party, but not necessarily a new political party".
JingleBellJüpes
Self serving traitors imo.

Everything they claim to feel so strongly about, if that was really the case you think they'd have stood up then and there rather than waiting for a politically expedient time that just *happened* to coincide with their own knterests coming into conflict with party policy, and their constant attempts to drag the party to the right and/or seize leadership control being continually rebuffed.

Good riddance if you ask me.
Pogueschartpeak
errr when you get members of the party (Hi Boy Owen!) doing their utmost to get rid of anyone that doesnt toe the party line a la Corbynism (who was happily tolerated for decades despite not being aligned with mainstream Labour) then it's not at all surprising that MP's made to feel alienated and unwanted do what they've been pressured to do for the last couple of years by the same people now hypocritically slagging them off for leaving after telling them to leave over and over again.

What goes around comes around and if the intolerant shoe fits.....
Suedehead2
The Labour response to this is boringly predictable. It's exactly the same response that we've heard every time an MP chooses to leave their party. No doubt we will hear exactly the same response if a batch of Tories finally decide that they can no longer stomach being in the same party as Jack Mogg.
Esmerelda
Both Labour and the Conservative parties could do with splitting. They have both reached the stage where they simply cannot contain the wide variety of views on certain key issues any longer. FPTP forces these bloated parties trying to be all things to all people.

I would have some respect for "the 7" is they triggered by elections and gave their constituents a "people's vote" on them, but it seems they won't be doing so- probably because they know they would all lose.
vidsanta
QUOTE(Esmerelda @ Feb 18 2019, 03:51 PM) *
Both Labour and the Conservative parties could do with splitting. They have both reached the stage where they simply cannot contain the wide variety of views on certain key issues any longer. FPTP forces these bloated parties trying to be all things to all people.


It seems that voting reform is the one thing we virtually all agree on

QUOTE
I would have some respect for "the 7" is they triggered by elections and gave their constituents a "people's vote" on them, but it seems they won't be doing so- probably because they know they would all lose.


They're only delaying the inevitable until the next GE though. tongue.gif
Suedehead2
The fact that the seven haven't formed another party may be because they hope to be able to rejoin the Labour fold at some point. Of course, they may find that their constituency party has gone ahead and selected a new candidate by then.
Brett-Butler
New Party Day! This is one of my favourite "once in a blue moon" days, alongside new Pope day.

It will be interesting to see what happens with them. Although SDP comparisons will abound, it's worth noting that unlike them, none of the 7 would have been household names, with the possible exception of Chuka Umunna. And if it means that more people will realise that the SDP are still going, then all the better.

If there are other further defections, only in the Tory camp, Anna Soubry, one of the most pro-Remain Conservatives, could be amongst them. However, I still maintain that come the next election, things will once again rebalance in favour of the Big 2.
Botchia
I've signed up to support them and ready to be selected as a candidate in the June election x
lotita
ive also signed up*.* i would love to stand in either my home or uni constituency
Doctor Blind
It's started off well, Angela Smith on BBC2 at lunchtime (and she's already had to apologise)



Santa Klaus
That’s just part of the qualification process to be a party
Doctor Blind
Labour MP Rupa Huq said: “They claim their new party is anti-racist and modern yet in the same breath describe black, Asian and minority ethnic people as having a ‘funny tinge’. This is, at best, the casual racism of the 1970s that I thought we’d long left behind. But it will strike many as an appalling, racist comment. Is the Independent Group going to investigate?”

Also: Big row brewing as The Independent Group signals it could let sex harassment accused MPs John Woodcock and Ivan Lewis sit with them.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/30-mps...dependent-group

They should have just joined the Tories tbh.
❤️❤️❤️
I doubt I'll be a huge fan of their general policies but it's good that some in Labour are taking a stand over Brexit and the bullying/intimidation going on in the party.

QUOTE(Pëpé Le Pew @ Feb 18 2019, 12:53 PM) *
Self serving traitors imo.

The moment you use 'traitors', people automatically stop registering with your argument.
Brett-Butler
The problem that the new Independent Grouping will have, and a problem that any "centrist" party will face, is that they will be facing an attack on two fronts, both from the right, and its associated press, as well as from the left, and its associated groupings as well. As such, any weaknesses and missteps will be poured over with a fine tooth comb, and amplified to a much greater extent than if it were from just one party, which is another one of the reasons why I don't think this grouping will be the long-term prospect they are hoping for.

But all I can say is I'm really looking forward to the next by-election.
vidsanta
QUOTE(BotchLikeThis @ Feb 18 2019, 07:07 PM) *
I've signed up to support them and ready to be selected as a candidate in the June election x


What June election - do you know something even the PM doesn't? rolleyes.gif
Pogueschartpeak
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Feb 18 2019, 08:30 PM) *
Labour MP Rupa Huq said: “They claim their new party is anti-racist and modern yet in the same breath describe black, Asian and minority ethnic people as having a ‘funny tinge’. This is, at best, the casual racism of the 1970s that I thought we’d long left behind. But it will strike many as an appalling, racist comment. Is the Independent Group going to investigate?”

Also: Big row brewing as The Independent Group signals it could let sex harassment accused MPs John Woodcock and Ivan Lewis sit with them.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/30-mps...dependent-group

They should have just joined the Tories tbh.


yet I see a woman saying white women have a hard time, and non-white women have an even harder time then stumbling over her words while arguing against bigotry. Bloody women trying to stand up for women and racism! Why can't they just shut up and let the men who are much better at using words tell them what to think?
Suedehead2
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Feb 19 2019, 06:46 AM) *
What June election - do you know something even the PM doesn't? rolleyes.gif

Given the co-ordinated attacks on Corbyn in the press over the last couple weeks, a June (or May) election would not be a surprise. Of course, there also remains the possibility of a European Parliament election.
Brett-Butler
I also think there’s local elections coming up in GB (I assume - they’re taking place in Northern Ireland, and before you ask no, I am not standing, although a former advisor to a local MLA has been encouraging me to do so).
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