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vidsanta
One thing that can be dismissed as a major factor is the mainstream media, since everyone has equal exposure to it, and in any case, the young are more susceptible to influence than older people.

I basically agree with the mainstream theory, that greater responsibilities moderate your choices - e.g. you can't risk being as profligate with your money when you have families to raise, and mortgages to pay, and therefore the Conservatives usually offer greater financial stability than Labour, whose political strategies tend to be riskier.
Holly and Izzy
That last line is a really useful myth for the Conservatives, isn't it? Without turning this into another B-word thread, what riskier strategy is there than the current one? Beyond that, they are not more conservative spenders than Labour, they just have different priorities. Priorities that impede progress.

Wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the influence of mainstream media, because it is more conservative and consumed more exclusively by older people. This particular cohort of younger voters are more online and are therefore on average, exposed to more views, as well as more theory, which lessens the impact of believing the mainstream narrative. And that same line of younger voters being more susceptible also means they're more open to change, to adjust their political views as becomes sensible.

And really this thread is just about how acceptable you find individual conservative policies versus collective social policies and whether it's okay to ignore the harmful effects of austerity-laden right-wing governments because one is voting for the party that personally benefits them a little more.
vidsanta
QUOTE(Tones and Iz @ Oct 28 2019, 08:42 AM) *
That last line is a really useful myth for the Conservatives, isn't it? Without turning this into another B-word thread, what riskier strategy is there than the current one? Beyond that, they are not more conservative spenders than Labour, they just have different priorities. Priorities that impede progress.

Wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the influence of mainstream media, because it is more conservative and consumed more exclusively by older people. This particular cohort of younger voters are more online and are therefore on average, exposed to more views, as well as more theory, which lessens the impact of believing the mainstream narrative. And that same line of younger voters being more susceptible also means they're more open to change, to adjust their political views as becomes sensible.

And really this thread is just about how acceptable you find individual conservative policies versus collective social policies and whether it's okay to ignore the harmful effects of austerity-laden right-wing governments because one is voting for the party that personally benefits them a little more.


Re the first part - it was the electorate'd decision to go for B-word wink.gif , and the Tories hands were therefore tied by promising in the leaflet to implement what the electorate decided.

re second part : people choose the media they read, not the other way round, so they are already leaning one way - the media doesn't create that, it merely reinforces it.

The 3rd part is just a 'well, duh' comment.
JingleBellJüpes
Isn't it more that the centre shifts rather than the people's views shifting?

Everyone in my family would consider themselves leftwing but my grandma is racist as anything and my own parents aren't particularly big on women's equality fully. Those things used to be partisan issues, but now would suggest right leaning & might cause someone to vote along rightwing lines.
blacksquare
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Oct 28 2019, 06:43 AM) *
One thing that can be dismissed as a major factor is the mainstream media, since everyone has equal exposure to it, and in any case, the young are more susceptible to influence than older people.

I basically agree with the mainstream theory, that greater responsibilities moderate your choices - e.g. you can't risk being as profligate with your money when you have families to raise, and mortgages to pay, and therefore the Conservatives usually offer greater financial stability than Labour, whose political strategies tend to be riskier.


This is a topic I have been interested in for a while — there is actually quite a lot on it in psychology and neuroscience. It's harder for our brains to make new synapse connections when we're older, so it's more difficult for an older person to change their mind than someone younger with a more elastic brain. Our political beliefs tend to cement as we form a more concrete worldview — a conservative person is more likely to become more conservative with age and the opposite for a liberal person. I certainly feel that is true for me.

It appears to be more generational than age. The oldest generation of voters grew up in completely different circumstances than the youngest generation of voters. They were raised in a more socially conservative and less globalised world — their influence over each generation since has weakened.

Of course, this is not true for everyone but it does seem to be a large part of the puzzle.
December Dong
Brainwashed by a hard right one party state media. Old people are far more susceptible to influence than young forward-thinking people in education getting trained to think and analyse critically and not gobble down hard right lies. There. Solved. The end. Next right wing talking point please x
Crazy Chris-tmas
QUOTE(Peentergeist @ Oct 28 2019, 11:03 AM) *
Brainwashed by a hard right one party state media. There. Solved. The end. Next right wing talking point please x



Can't you give it a rest. You're honestly so boring and like a broken record. You respond to any topic with a Tory bashing post. Seriously, get a grip.
December Dong
GREATER FINANCIAL STABILITY?! YOU'RE HAVING A DUCKING LAUGH!!!!! rotf.gif OH MY GOD THE RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA!
vidsanta
QUOTE(Peentergeist @ Oct 28 2019, 11:03 AM) *
Brainwashed by a hard right one party state media. Old people are far more susceptible to influence than young forward-thinking people


Then why do dictatorships concentrate their propaganda on the young... rolleyes.gif
Jacob :O
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Oct 28 2019, 11:15 AM) *
Then why do dictatorships concentrate their propaganda on the young... rolleyes.gif
We're not talking adolescent young, we're talking voting age young correct? Of course adolescents and children are easily influenced, but not so easy for people in their 20s and late teens. They're perfectly capable of forming their own opinions. One thing I have found is with occasional young conservatives (#notall) along this line of thought is they think they're so special and go "oh you'll all think this way when we're older, I'm just ahead of the curve"- lil twats. x

The fact is situations have changed, age isn't the determining factor, it's life experience and life experience has just been different for the current demographic of older people. One of the reasons older voters tend to be more conservative is they have more money. Boomers took advantage of a booming economy (which is now nowhere near as great, thanks for that x) and now they're more likely to vote for parties that tax them less. They may have been more left wing when they were young and turned more right wing when it benefited them more but economically the situation isn't going improve for the current generation in the same way it did for boomers, hence voting patterns are less likely to change in the same way.
Esmerelda
Number of possible reasons.

Conservatives would say it's because that young Conservatives are generally treated with contempt by their peers- as you become older you become less bothered about the approval of your peer group.

Others would say it is because people become more individualistic/selfish as you get older.

Or maybe what it means to be "Conservative" changes and people don't actually change their opinions so much.

I've always considered myself left wing, but find myself raising an eyebrow more and more at the left...though I don't think my opinions have actually changed. Perhaps I'll be considered "Consravtive" or "Right Wing" in 20 years time.
blacksquare
QUOTE(Peentergeist @ Oct 28 2019, 11:03 AM) *
Brainwashed by a hard right one party state media. Old people are far more susceptible to influence than young forward-thinking people in education getting trained to think and analyse critically and not gobble down hard right lies. There. Solved. The end. Next right wing talking point please x

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Oct 28 2019, 11:15 AM) *
Then why do dictatorships concentrate their propaganda on the young... rolleyes.gif


There is a difference between easily influenced children and young adults.

Older voters have a defined worldview that is difficult to change. They are more susceptible to media that confirms their worldview — whether true or false. Combined with weaker digital literacy, fake news (or propaganda) is successful with older generations because of this.
December Dong
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Oct 28 2019, 11:15 AM) *
Then why do dictatorships concentrate their propaganda on the young... rolleyes.gif


You mean children? Btw what do you think about the Tory dictatorship putting brexshit propaganda in PRIMARY SCHOOLS?! Lol. Or churches preaching establishment patriarchy propaganda to families? Lol.
December Dong
QUOTE(Veles Shadow @ Oct 28 2019, 11:27 AM) *
We're not talking adolescent young, we're talking voting age young correct? Of course adolescents and children are easily influenced, but not so easy for people in their 20s and late teens. They're perfectly capable of forming their own opinions. One thing I have found is with occasional young conservatives (#notall) along this line of thought is they think they're so special and go "oh you'll all think this way when we're older, I'm just ahead of the curve"- lil twats. x

The fact is situations have changed, age isn't the determining factor, it's life experience and life experience has just been different for the current demographic of older people. One of the reasons older voters tend to be more conservative is they have more money. Boomers took advantage of a booming economy (which is now nowhere near as great, thanks for that x) and now they're more likely to vote for parties that tax them less. They may have been more left wing when they were young and turned more right wing when it benefited them more but economically the situation isn't going improve for the current generation in the same way it did for boomers, hence voting patterns are less likely to change in the same way.


100% this. Tories are dying off and that's why the party has turned to cheating and authoritarianism and Goebbels style propaganda.
Tawdry Hepburn
I always just put it down to senility, if I'm honest.
JingleBellJüpes
Yeah I agree with blacksquare to an extent. But it depends on the messagw and the means of sale. Its marketing - a sector I know well - whee a lot of money is put into targeting you deliberately without you twigging you're being sold to. The only real defence is healthy scepticism and questioning of the source - which of course the seller will try and make it hard for you to through plain obfuscation, or shame upon people who even try to do so, depending on the approach they feel works best with that segment of voters or sample.

(This applies across the political spectrum)

So for example in order to sell to older people who don't want to be told they have knowledge gaps and want to feel superior or valued for their experience, messages will be sold to them that start on a platform of common sense that builds on their existing values, with a healthy smattering of patting on the back for following those beliefs, and a suggestion of being trusted by those in authority. Those are elements deliberately judged to appeal to the older consumer.

By contrast a party like Labour or a company aiming at a younger audience will be deliberately brash and outspoken, to convey authenticity, and with a sense of smashing up existing institutions - these are things that the younger consumer is observed to find appealing.

It's very easy for anyone at any place on the spectrum to dismiss these if they're sending a message you like - that's what they rely on. Nobody wants to feel nanipulated, so instead of simply not being manipulative they have entire departments dedicated to making sure you don't pick up on it.
vidsanta
QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Oct 28 2019, 11:05 AM) *
Can't you give it a rest. You're honestly so boring and like a broken record. You respond to any topic with a Tory bashing post. Seriously, get a grip.


He changes his name here so often, but his views give him away every time - maybe he should use the name 'Michael Moaners'. w00t.gif
Brett-Butler
Three things are shown to have a big effect on becoming more conservative as you get older - owning a house, marriage & having children. Margaret Thatcher created a generation of Tories when she allowed people to buy their council houses in the 80s (which later led to a shortage of council housing & regular housing when the houses were subsequently bought up by businesses, but that's another story). That's why the housing shortage is disastrous for the Tories and why they should make it their #1 priority if they want the young to ever consider them - how the heck can you expect the younger generation to embrace capitalism when they don't have any capital? Plus, the latter two are likely to fall into place once the first happens.
vidsanta
QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Oct 28 2019, 06:56 PM) *
Three things are shown to have a big effect on becoming more conservative as you get older - owning a house, marriage & having children. Margaret Thatcher created a generation of Tories when she allowed people to buy their council houses in the 80s (which later led to a shortage of council housing & regular housing when the houses were subsequently bought up by businesses, but that's another story). That's why the housing shortage is disastrous for the Tories and why they should make it their #1 priority if they want the young to ever consider them - how the heck can you expect the younger generation to embrace capitalism when they don't have any capital? Plus, the latter two are likely to fall into place once the first happens.


Another reason they have no capital is they've been encouraged to sign up for Uni courses which will not lead to jobs, leaving with massive student loans.
December Dong
New right wing talking point lol. Sigh.
vidsanta
QUOTE(Peentergeist @ Oct 29 2019, 09:27 AM) *
New right wing talking point lol. Sigh.


I notice that you're not disputing what I state in the thread title, though.
December Dong
And I gave you your answer on the other page. The end x
Rooney
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Oct 29 2019, 08:14 AM) *
Another reason they have no capital is they've been encouraged to sign up for Uni courses which will not lead to jobs, leaving with massive student loans.


While there is some truth to that, it's also largely a completely daft thought as well. Where are all these magical jobs that an 18 year old with zero experience is going to get?

Problem is as a society we've created a massive problem for ourselves. The longer the pension age goes up, the less jobs there are for younger people to move in to etc. - we're in a position currently where lots of people can afford to retire at 50-55 etc. cos they have had final salary pensions, but flash forward 20-30 years times we're going to have people who can't afford to retire in many aspects as they are not old enough for a state pension, have not paid enough in to a private pension and they are not physically capable to do the work in lots of cases...
vidsanta
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 29 2019, 09:08 PM) *
While there is some truth to that, it's also largely a completely daft thought as well. Where are all these magical jobs that an 18 year old with zero experience is going to get?


McDonalds? rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
Problem is as a society we've created a massive problem for ourselves. The longer the pension age goes up, the less jobs there are for younger people to move in to etc. - we're in a position currently where lots of people can afford to retire at 50-55 etc. cos they have had final salary pensions, but flash forward 20-30 years times we're going to have people who can't afford to retire in many aspects as they are not old enough for a state pension, have not paid enough in to a private pension and they are not physically capable to do the work in lots of cases...


Pension age is a whole other issue though.
Popchartfreak
older people generally look back fondly on their youth and forget all the hard times. Compare their more infirm state and depressive life (friends family die frequently) which is part of the ageing process, and yearn for the old days when they were young and life was easier.

It was true in Ancient Greece and it's been true ever since. Old people then said the same things old people now say. Old people said the same stuff to me as a young person that my generation now say to young people and they are blissfully self-unaware that life wasn't a golden haze of a marvellous time had by all. It wasn't. I remember every miserable second of the tough times I lived in AS WELL AS looking back fondly on the good stuff.

The only difference nowadays, and I'm going to say it on the grounds that it is absolutely true, based on observation, and previous generations didn't do it cos it didn't exist, is young people are never off their f***ing mobile phones. Visit you? On mobile phones blocking you out. Out together? All on mobile phones not talking. Meal together? Mobile phones. Pub quizzes? Nipping to the loos to cheat on mobile phones. Out on a quiet couple evening together? On phones posting to everyone messaging them.

If you are reading this in any one of those scenarios, as opposed to me typing this in my bedroom in between tasks, point made laugh.gif If not, well-done you yahoo.gif

Older people, put away the rose-tinted specs, resurrect those long-dead memory brain cells, and look back at how things really were for older people of that time. Worse than today.
Crazy Chris-tmas
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Oct 30 2019, 06:22 AM) *
McDonalds? rolleyes.gif



Nah they don't pay enough. biggrin.gif
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